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Author Topic: Russian/Ukranian women - views on sex before marriage?  (Read 53152 times)

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Offline JoeS421

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Russian/Ukranian women - views on sex before marriage?
« on: August 09, 2012, 05:47:55 PM »
Hi guys,

I wanted to post my story here and get people's thoughts.  I have been corresponding with a lovely Ukrainian lady for a year and a half, and made visits to her in Kiev, several times over the course of 2011.  (I am in my late 30s and she is in her mid 20s).

Initial meetings
We meet on ElenasModels in late 2010/early 2011, and she quickly moves the conversation to her personal email.  She finds me on Skype and starts messaging me, and we start sending each other a few photos.  Things went really well, we have a lot in common, we can talk for hours, and things like that.  After a few months or writing in early 2011, we started talking about meeting.  She is a saleswoman for a Ukrainian medical supplies company, so sometimes her job takes her to various cities in Europe.  We talked about meeting in Rome, but she said that she had to be in Spain for a project so I said that was okay and I would come to Kiev to see her.  So another date in summer 2011 I met her, and met her again in late 2011.  To summarise, our dates went very well, we talked a lot, had a good time.  When we kissed goodnight, she would only kiss me on the cheek at this time.  I met her again in late 2011 in Kiev, and we had a good time again, we did a lot of fun things together and she introduced me to her friends at the end of the trip.  Again, when we kissed goodnight, it was on the cheek but on the last night, it was on the edge of the mouth.

So in 2012, we talked about our next meeting, and I definitely wanted to be with her in February for Valentine's Day.  She was traveling to Switzerland and Germany, so she suggested meeting in Germany since she was visiting her best girl friend there.  I travel over there, and I meet her and her friend, but her friend is nice enough to leave us alone for most of the trip.  We look into each others eyes a lot (we always do this from here on out), we kiss on the edge of the mouth a few times, not just when saying goodbye but also as a spur of the moment things.  At the end of this trip, we are kissing each other on the lips, and holding hands.

Traveling together
We talk about the next meeting, and she suggests that since she has a multiple entry visa for Western Europe, we take a trip together.  So we talk about places neither of us have been to, but want to visit so we decide on a long weekend in Norway together in April.  So I plan for the trip, and put everything on my expense (including her plane ticket from Kiev to Oslo), meet her and we have a good time.  Since this would be the first time we are sleeping together in the same bed, I go into this with the hope about "getting lucky", but I decide I'm not going to try anything as I do not want to look too aggressive about sex, and I want her to feel comfortable around me.  We sleep in the same bed, kissing each other goodnight and she plays with my hair in the morning, and she gives me a back rub since my allergies are bothering me at the time.  However, we do not have sex, I do not make a move and although she sleeps in her lingerie and takes her bra off for comfort reasons, she sleeps face down and wraps a towel around her whenever she goes out of bed so she doesn't show me anything.  The rest of the trip goes like this, we have a great time together, kissing on the lips (no tongue, I tried once but she didn't play along) sleeping in each others underwear with each other (we hold each other but in order to sleep we just go on our sides of the bed.  I tried to hold her around her stomach area but she asked me not to do that since her stomach was sensitive).  But we still walk around Oslo holding hands, we look at each other warmly a lot, and the overall vibe is good.

The end of this trip goes well, and we talk about our next trip.  She mentions that she can get a week off work on May 2012 so we talk about places to visit.  She recommends Switzerland, since I have never been there and she has traveled there before with her mom and for work.  So we spend a full week together, but this is a more aggressive trip since we are driving around a lot and only spending a few days in each city.  We are still kissing and long looks into each others eyes, and this time holding hands, but when going to bed she wears a nightie this time.  Furthermore, when showering and getting dressed, she brings all her clothes into the bathroom and and I do not see her in her lingerie this time, she always emerges from the shower fully clothed.  Because this trip is going to so many places, we are usually tired when going to bed but everytime before we go to bed she holds me for a few minutes and kisses me several times goodnight.  I did not make a move on this Switzerland trip, since I was tired from the trip schedule and plus I did not want to jeopardize the relationship by coming on too strong.  So we ended the trip by kissing each other repeatedly, I smile and ask if I can call her "my girlfriend", she smiles and laughs sweetly.  She says, "That's a new word for me" and kisses me several times.  She then teaches me the Russian word for girlfriend.  We look back at each other when we part ways on separate planes, and I think the trip ends on a good note, part of me wonders if it's a bad sign about the fact that we have not been intimate yet.

Summary of where we are now
Since then, we have been emailing each other as usual, and talking about visiting her in Kiev this August.  We email pictures to each other, and just a few days ago, she emailed me a picture of her in a bikini for the first time.  Keep in mind that every other picture she has sent to me before this week, she is dressed normally.  Also, she dresses very conservatively and does not show too much leg, cleavage or anything like that. 

Also, I get the feeling that she is very conservative about sexual matters because:
1) She is religious, she prays every night before going to bed, and when visiting Europe, whenever we go into a cathedral, she kneels down, does the sign of the Cross three times, and prays.  Although I believe in God, I do not practice a religion.  She told me that she came to God when we was in college and fell really sick, a friend gave her a Bible and she started reading it and instantly felt better.  Since then, she says, she has really made the most out of life.
2) She takes a conservative and moralistic worldview in matters.  She will have a few drinks of alcohol, but she takes a dim view of marijuana and other drugs.  When we were in Switzerland, my friends who live there told me stories of women from the poorer Eurozone countries coming into Switzerland to do escort jobs.  She just shook her head and said, "It's amazing what one can do if one has no moral standards."
3) She laughs at all of my jokes, but just once I mentioned an off color joke about an American tourist in France who inadvertently used the French equivalent of the F-word, and she said, "I don't find that funny."

My American guy friends do not trust her
However, my guy friends in the US do not trust her.  They know we met on ElenasModels, they googled EM and showed me a bunch of links to scams on EM (I think that EM itself is legitimate, but there are scammers who try to use it) and my friends think that she is using me for free trips, and the fact we haven't had sex yet is worrying.  My friends tell me to have a discussion of her about her view on sex, and if she gives me some BS, dump her.  However, she may be waiting until marriage or wanting to know me really really well before taking that step.  My guy friends are like "You've known her for a year and a half!" but this is not like the USA M-F relationship where you are living in the same city.

My friends think she is using me for free trips, since she emailed me a picture of her in a bikini for the first time recently, and they said that is weird, because she is a prude in bed and it is like she is rubbing my nose in the fact we haven't had sex yet.  They point out that in the same email that she sent the first bikini photo, it was a reply to my email about sponsoring her on a visa to visit me in the US, so they say that it was just an encouragement to get her to pay for the next trip.  And my friends don't think that she is really saving herself for marriage or waiting to have sex because the temptation is too great, and nobody saves themselves for marriage in these times.

However, she has made no direct attempt to scam me so far because:
1) She has never asked me to send her money nor buy her anything.  When she goes shopping, she buys everything herself.
2) Although I pay for everything on our dates and when we travel, I pay for the travel expenses, she gives me gifts, like a box of chocolates, or men's cologne, and heart shaped soap.  In our trip to Switzerland, she even bought my friend who let us stay at his place wine and chocolates as a thank you gift, even though I didn't ask her to do so, since my friend had refused an offer of a gift from me when we talked to each other
3) She doesn't insist on buying expensive things, and won't complain if we end up eating at less expensive restaurants occasionally.

Conclusion
So what do you guys think?  I read an article about FSU women linked from RWD, and it says that women waiting until marriage for sex is not common in the FSU, and if you hear that, you should run as its usually a scam.  However, this woman is really special, we connect in so many ways, we have similar personalities, and I genuinely enjoy spending time with her.  If she is using me for free trips, then end it but if she is being honest and genuine, then I really want to see if this develops into something really serious and marriage (we have talked about marriage and we both want a family).  My American guy friends have told me to flat out ask her about our relationship and how she feels about a sexual relationship between us - if she gives me some BS or "waiting until marriage" then end it.  However, I do not want to be this direct, and I certainly do not want to look like I am just trying to "get laid".  I am looking for a wife, not an escort.  Then again, I need to know she wants to be with me for me, not the fact that I am paying for a few trips a year.  How should I bring up the subject of intimacy with this girl?  If she wants to wait, I will respect her even more for that if she is being honest and genuine.

Thanks a lot!
« Last Edit: August 09, 2012, 06:21:33 PM by JoeS421 »

Offline GoodOlBoy

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Re: Russian/Ukranian women - views on sex before marriage?
« Reply #1 on: August 09, 2012, 06:07:33 PM »
Welcome to RWD Joe.  :welcome:

Has she ever invited you to her hometown to meet her Mom and Dad?

Is her profile still on the internet?
 
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« Last Edit: August 09, 2012, 06:09:48 PM by GoodOlBoy »
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Offline remiel6

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Re: Russian/Ukranian women - views on sex before marriage?
« Reply #2 on: August 09, 2012, 06:17:30 PM »
I can only speak from experience, but every woman is different. My wife is very conservative, yet I know there are many women who are not. I might start by asking her.

Offline JoeS421

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Re: Russian/Ukranian women - views on sex before marriage?
« Reply #3 on: August 09, 2012, 06:23:17 PM »
Welcome to RWD Joe.  :welcome:

Has she ever invited you to her hometown to meet her Mom and Dad?

Is her profile still on the internet?
 
GOB

Hi GOB, thanks for the welcome.

Her profile is not on the internet, I noticed it was taken down a few months after we started corresponding.  She has invited me to her hometown several times, but not to meet her parents yet.  I am going to Kiev this late August, and I may ask to meet her parents on this trip.

Offline JoeS421

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Re: Russian/Ukranian women - views on sex before marriage?
« Reply #4 on: August 09, 2012, 06:25:20 PM »
I can only speak from experience, but every woman is different. My wife is very conservative, yet I know there are many women who are not. I might start by asking her.

Good point.  Of course, should I just use the word "intimacy" or beat around the bush, like What do you feel about living together before marriage?  And just start the discussion like that....

Offline remiel6

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Re: Russian/Ukranian women - views on sex before marriage?
« Reply #5 on: August 09, 2012, 06:41:11 PM »
That would depend on her English level. Such "beating around the bush" can sometimes leave her scratching her head. I can think of many conversations with my wife where I thought I said something perfectly normal and alas she would give me a blank stare. It turns out the  baffling word I had used was the word "do" lol.

Offline ML

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Re: Russian/Ukranian women - views on sex before marriage?
« Reply #6 on: August 09, 2012, 06:47:20 PM »
Hate to be the wet towel here . . . but this is all pretty unbelievable.

Any guy who would go along with this in 2012 is pretty foolish, or has an extremely low sex drive himself.

Women (and men) who can go without sex for extended periods with a serious partner before marriage can certainly go without sex after marriage.

I certainly haven't and wouldn't require sex on first date or even third date (I'm talking about a date in one day, not a week trip counting as date); but after that I would just be meeting with the gal as a friend when I had nothing else to do.

- - - - -

Providing this thread isn't the latest 'jerk around.'
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Offline Jack

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Re: Russian/Ukranian women - views on sex before marriage?
« Reply #7 on: August 09, 2012, 07:03:51 PM »
Joe, their are many such good women in Ukraine as  you have described.  As opposed to you having  a scammer, you may have a diamond.

Offline remiel6

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Re: Russian/Ukranian women - views on sex before marriage?
« Reply #8 on: August 09, 2012, 07:04:11 PM »
I don't really agree with this. To me the speed of the sexual relationship is all up to the woman. Some women would rather take it more slowly. There is a very fine line however between your bored friend category and moving forward. My limited knowledge of Russian/Ukrainian women is this. If she's traveling Europe, especially on her own dime, she's not interested in being friends.
I'm not sure who's paying for these trips. If the poster is paying and we are in this situation I agree with ML, if the lady is paying her own way, then I am inlined to follow her lead.

Offline remiel6

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Re: Russian/Ukranian women - views on sex before marriage?
« Reply #9 on: August 09, 2012, 07:04:48 PM »
I was speaking of ML not Jack

Offline I/O

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Re: Russian/Ukranian women - views on sex before marriage?
« Reply #10 on: August 09, 2012, 07:31:31 PM »
Joe: Have you ever been intimate with a woman?

Offline Eduard

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Re: Russian/Ukranian women - views on sex before marriage?
« Reply #11 on: August 09, 2012, 09:37:38 PM »
This is a very unusual situation IMO. On one hand I wanna say" "Take the lead, make love to her, don't just touch her stomach. Kiss her neck, shoulders, and move down from there, show some passion, TAKE HER! FSU women like and expect that from a man. Don't wait for her to make the first move!". But the fact that she won't french kiss you tells me that she may not be feeling the chemistry toward you and just enjoys you as a friend. Also possible that she enjoys free trips to nice places... hard to tell without observing her (and your) behavior. But dating for 1.5 years, sleeping in the same bed and not having sex, sounds like something from a fiction story.
I'm also very surprised that you haven't asked her if she believes in "no sex before marriage" or just discussed with her your situation and lack of intimacy. Why haven't you?
How old are you and how old is she?
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Offline mendeleyev

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Re: Russian/Ukranian women - views on sex before marriage?
« Reply #12 on: August 09, 2012, 11:27:05 PM »
Such is a couple's decision but it is outdated in 2012 to say that a woman or man or couple can't set their own agenda in regards to this topic. It has nothing to do with sexual drive but with personal attitudes, no matter which choice they make. Each individual is different and when two come together to become a "couple" this is one of the decisions they must make together.

Let them make it. We aren't going to be there as a threesome so what we think really doesn't matter.
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Offline JoeS421

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Re: Russian/Ukranian women - views on sex before marriage?
« Reply #13 on: August 09, 2012, 11:40:16 PM »
That would depend on her English level. Such "beating around the bush" can sometimes leave her scratching her head. I can think of many conversations with my wife where I thought I said something perfectly normal and alas she would give me a blank stare. It turns out the  baffling word I had used was the word "do" lol.

Hi Remiel, her English is pretty much fluent.

Offline JoeS421

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Re: Russian/Ukranian women - views on sex before marriage?
« Reply #14 on: August 09, 2012, 11:41:40 PM »
I don't really agree with this. To me the speed of the sexual relationship is all up to the woman. Some women would rather take it more slowly. There is a very fine line however between your bored friend category and moving forward. My limited knowledge of Russian/Ukrainian women is this. If she's traveling Europe, especially on her own dime, she's not interested in being friends.
I'm not sure who's paying for these trips. If the poster is paying and we are in this situation I agree with ML, if the lady is paying her own way, then I am inlined to follow her lead.

Hi Remiel, I am paying for the trips - she does give me gifts and things, but I shoulder most of the expenses.

Offline JoeS421

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Re: Russian/Ukranian women - views on sex before marriage?
« Reply #15 on: August 09, 2012, 11:44:49 PM »
Joe: Have you ever been intimate with a woman?

Yes, I have had serious relationships before.  How it usually happens is that we end up kissing, then if I start making a move towards removing her shirt then it all goes from there.

Offline JoeS421

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Re: Russian/Ukranian women - views on sex before marriage?
« Reply #16 on: August 09, 2012, 11:50:30 PM »
This is a very unusual situation IMO. On one hand I wanna say" "Take the lead, make love to her, don't just touch her stomach. Kiss her neck, shoulders, and move down from there, show some passion, TAKE HER! FSU women like and expect that from a man. Don't wait for her to make the first move!". But the fact that she won't french kiss you tells me that she may not be feeling the chemistry toward you and just enjoys you as a friend. Also possible that she enjoys free trips to nice places... hard to tell without observing her (and your) behavior. But dating for 1.5 years, sleeping in the same bed and not having sex, sounds like something from a fiction story.
I'm also very surprised that you haven't asked her if she believes in "no sex before marriage" or just discussed with her your situation and lack of intimacy. Why haven't you?
How old are you and how old is she?

Hi Eduard,

I admit, I have been real timid with this girl but keep in mind that we have only been on two trips together so far.   She might be french kissing me now, you are right I have to show some more initiative, as she initially only kisses me on the cheek, but after meeting her a few times (before I started going on trips with her) she kissed me on the lips afterwards so she might want to take it slow.

Do you think the fact that she is religious has anything to do with it?

I am 37, she is 26.  The reason why I haven't asked her this before is this is my first relationship with a FSU woman, I have dated a woman from Ukraine before, but she lived in New York for the last 10 years and was pretty much Americanized.  As I said before, her religious-ness with the frequent praying also caused me to hold off discussing intimacy until now.

I will definitely ask her about her views about intimacy on my next trip to see her in her city.  At the end of the evening, I will try to french kiss her, just do something moving onto the next level, and if she goes along, great.  If she demurs, then I can ask her "What are your views on intimacy, as you seem to hold back sometimes?  I need to know if you see us having a romantic relationship." and take it from there.

Thanks,
Joe
« Last Edit: August 10, 2012, 12:05:46 AM by JoeS421 »

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Re: Russian/Ukranian women - views on sex before marriage?
« Reply #17 on: August 10, 2012, 12:17:40 AM »
Joe: I'm not interested in the gory details of who touched who where, how or when or who undid this or that button however, in general, if a lady is in bed with you, scantily clad and at least somewhat affectionate, she isn't their to maintain her virginity. I'm thinking you're missing something obvious. 
 
FWIW, if you enjoy her company and can afford the travel, why not continue until the obvious conclusion, whatever that may be.
 
To make specific suggestions on how to progress the physical relationship, IMO, on a public forum, is improper but I would offer the thought based on experience, that in this area, as with any other area involving RW's, generally one should offer, ask, suggest, 3 times to confirm the offer is genuine................... ;)

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Re: Russian/Ukranian women - views on sex before marriage?
« Reply #18 on: August 10, 2012, 12:47:43 AM »
This is a very unusual situation IMO.
... But the fact that she won't french kiss you tells me that she may not be feeling the chemistry toward you and just enjoys you as a friend. Also possible that she enjoys free trips to nice places... hard to tell without observing her (and your) behavior. But dating for 1.5 years, sleeping in the same bed and not having sex, sounds like something from a fiction story.
I would say this is rather unusual situation, but not very  unusual.  I've read here  in TR section about a girl who insisted on no sex before marriage, then after marriage the couple get 3 kids.
I had met FSUW who hate  french kisses. I don't understand this kind of kisses too, so there is no crime here :)
I doubt she enjoys OP as a friend only, in that case she would avoid sleeping with him. She does not look desperate to share a bed with a guy only to save on her travel expenses.
My two points:
1. Great enjoyable time together is more important than relatively short mediocre sex . Though slowly nevertheless  the relationship is advancing.
2. What does JoeS421 expect from the gal? She is not going to seduce him, it's the task for a man. It does not mean  agressive sex, it is more about tempting mood and flirting. The idea of bringing up the subject of intimacy with the girl looks for me too direct, though more open talks about sex are required, for example in context of  inquiry about FSU attitude toward the issue . It's obvious that she does not want intimacy right now of reasons she may have dim ideas herself. The facts are: she trusts OP enough to share a bed, she is not in a mood yet to yield (may be she had very bad experience before).

Offline GunayH

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Re: Russian/Ukranian women - views on sex before marriage?
« Reply #19 on: August 10, 2012, 02:44:39 AM »
When my friend came to visit after months of talking it was in my home. He still had to show he was interested in me. For a couple of days he sleeps on the couch while we were signing to each other with our words and touching. If one of us did not like the way things were it would have stopped.

It seems you made signs with kissing and probably touching. If she not coming to you from her side of the bed with towel on she is sending you a sign too.

Maybe one more big sign that this is next thing to do, then break if she does not agree?

Offline Eduard

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Re: Russian/Ukranian women - views on sex before marriage?
« Reply #20 on: August 10, 2012, 06:59:59 AM »
I would say this is rather unusual situation, but not very  unusual.  I've read here  in TR section about a girl who insisted on no sex before marriage, then after marriage the couple get 3 kids.
I had met FSUW who hate  french kisses. I don't understand this kind of kisses too, so there is no crime here :)
I doubt she enjoys OP as a friend only, in that case she would avoid sleeping with him. She does not look desperate to share a bed with a guy only to save on her travel expenses.
My two points:
1. Great enjoyable time together is more important than relatively short mediocre sex . Though slowly nevertheless  the relationship is advancing.
2. What does JoeS421 expect from the gal? She is not going to seduce him, it's the task for a man. It does not mean  agressive sex, it is more about tempting mood and flirting. The idea of bringing up the subject of intimacy with the girl looks for me too direct, though more open talks about sex are required, for example in context of  inquiry about FSU attitude toward the issue . It's obvious that she does not want intimacy right now of reasons she may have dim ideas herself. The facts are: she trusts OP enough to share a bed, she is not in a mood yet to yield (may be she had very bad experience before).
Belvis, what you say makes sense. This is very hard to call without knowing the 2 people involved. Also there may be something in her past that prevents her from getting intimate... (rape?). Who knows? I think that they need to communicate about this. 1.5 years is way too long and a good talk is definitely due.
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Offline Ranetka

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Re: Russian/Ukranian women - views on sex before marriage?
« Reply #21 on: August 10, 2012, 07:01:20 AM »
To the OP:


I think by now the lady might be worried that you have some problems in sex department. Take my advise or not but I would recommend next time you are together do not wait for her to start, make a strong move until she either plays along or says no. And if she says no you can ask why and it all will be clear :-) Good luck.
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Re: Russian/Ukranian women - views on sex before marriage?
« Reply #22 on: August 10, 2012, 07:24:27 AM »
Hi Eduard,

I admit, I have been real timid with this girl but keep in mind that we have only been on two trips together so far.   She might be french kissing me now, you are right I have to show some more initiative, as she initially only kisses me on the cheek, but after meeting her a few times (before I started going on trips with her) she kissed me on the lips afterwards so she might want to take it slow.

Do you think the fact that she is religious has anything to do with it?

I am 37, she is 26.  The reason why I haven't asked her this before is this is my first relationship with a FSU woman, I have dated a woman from Ukraine before, but she lived in New York for the last 10 years and was pretty much Americanized.  As I said before, her religious-ness with the frequent praying also caused me to hold off discussing intimacy until now.

I will definitely ask her about her views about intimacy on my next trip to see her in her city.  At the end of the evening, I will try to french kiss her, just do something moving onto the next level, and if she goes along, great.  If she demurs, then I can ask her "What are your views on intimacy, as you seem to hold back sometimes?  I need to know if you see us having a romantic relationship." and take it from there.

Thanks,
Joe
Joe, If it were me, I'd have this talk with her before flying to Europe to meet her again. But it's your call off course. You might want to show more passion when you are with her. Most Russian women that I knew liked to be taken, passionately, slightly forcefully, like a traditional pre-feminizm man would. Could be that this is exactly what she wants to happen but she can't tell you this. Another thing might help if you share a bottle of champagne before climbing in bed with her, or better yet have champagne in bed with her, spill some over her (accidentally  :P ) and make sure that not a drop of it goes to waste!!! Be a bad boy, fun, passionate, mischievous, a little pushy. Offer to give her a back massage, this can turn into a full body massage - a very sensual experience that will progress to a lot more. If she doesn't like a massage (believe it or not there are a few women on Earth that don't like it!) be playful, tickle her, make her giggle, make her try to get away and then capture her and ravish her... Man do I need to hide under the bed to give instructions????!!! LOL  :P
But definitely do have a talk with her, make sure there was no some traumatic experience in her passed that prevents her from getting intimate with men.
Hope this helps!
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Re: Russian/Ukranian women - views on sex before marriage?
« Reply #23 on: August 10, 2012, 07:41:23 AM »
To the OP:


I think by now the lady might be worried that you have some problems in sex department. Take my advise or not but I would recommend next time you are together do not wait for her to start, make a strong move until she either plays along or says no. And if she says no you can ask why and it all will be clear :-) Good luck.
I agree with Ranetka, the only thing I would add is that the "Strong Move" should be playful, sensual and passionate. Trust me on this: learn how to give a massage ( you can do that just by reading a book). Offer her a massage when you are in bed, not many women would say no at this stage of your relationship! massage her back, her feet, make sure you are not hurting her by doing it too hard. Every woman has her own threshold of pain, so try to get in tune what feels good to her. Once you do that for 5-10 minutes and she starts relaxing, massage her legs, her buttocks. If you see that she is moaning and enjoying it start kissing her back giving it gentle licks and move down to her butt. This would be the point of no return for 99% of women... If she stops you at that point, there is definitely something wrong.


Don't think that religious women don't like sex. Some of them like sex a bit too much and they need that religion to sort of keep them in check a bit. If she happens to be the type who doesn't believe in intimacy before marriage I am quite surprised that she would sleep in the same bed with you...
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Re: Russian/Ukranian women - views on sex before marriage?
« Reply #24 on: August 10, 2012, 07:52:09 AM »
 :welcome:  Joe,
 
Very interesting. 
 
You have met her four times in Europe and also in Kiev.  And no sex! Every person is different, yet this seems extreme. 
 
If she were a teacher, 21-yo and had never left her provincial city, I could believe this is possible but not likely.  In contrast, she is 26-yo, has a  high level professional job and travels around Europe as part of her business.   
 
I reread your long post and in my second reading it became clear.  You wrote:
 

...sleeping in each others underwear ....



RW don't respect men who sleep in women's underwear.    :D
 
Of course this is not your true meaning about sleeping in underwear.  However, it does illustrate a point, namely few RW  take the   initiative with regard to sex, especially the first time.  So you need to be more of a man, especially one who knows what to do.  (see Ranetka's post)
 
You like this woman and it seems she likes you.  You have been timid all this time, so be careful not to suddenly become a rabid wolf.  My suggestion - share a fine bottle of wine  in the evening in your room and have a direct conversation that progresses to candid discussions of her feelings for you, her attitude about sex, her past relationships, etc.  Perhaps she likes you but not enough to prompt thoughts of marriage, and she is not a woman who does buddy sex.
 
BTW, my Cossack woman has an attractive friend in her early 40s who is still  a virgin.  She has no interest in sex, and is rather naive, believing in her 30s that penises were all the same size until the Cossack woman explained otherwise.    Remarkable but true.

 

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