Ideal age to wed?

[Grumpy]

 What is the ideal age to wed, in order to achieve happiness and marital success? Philosophers have weighed in on this. In his Politics, for example, Aristotle offered this advice: “It is fitting for the women to be married at about the age of eighteen and the men at thirty-seven or a little before.” Social scientists see it differently. A researcher at the Institute for Family Studies offered a more social-scientific estimate of the optimal age for getting hitched: 28 to 32 for both partners. This is the “sweet spot,” where divorce within the first five years of marriage is lowest.

The average age of marriage in the United States has been rising for years. In 1980, the average meant that a man married at 25, a woman at 22. Today, those numbers are 30 and 28, respectively.

http://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2023/10/happiness-marriage-startups-mergers/675611/

[Trenchcoat]

I think in some respects a bit of an age gap with the woman significantly younger than the man say 5 years plus may actually help. It avoids men getting into their 50s seeing that they are married to an old bag about the same age and not wanting to be in bed with her, wanting to dump her, etc. In their 50s men are usually at the height of their economic wealth, a lifetime of earnings behind them, the mortgage paid off on their house and work skills honed to help keep them in employment and earn well. All that wealth is highly desirable to many young women even if a divorce costs the guy half his house he's still way ahead than many twenty year old guys. The older woman in contrast her looks fading is often losing out on the hypergamy scale leading to the old saying from the guy of, 'trade her in for a younger model'. That is of course very unpleasant for the woman being ditched usually after the kids have grown up and moved out, if any, and with nowhere to go.

However, no guy in his fifties is likely to contemplate ditching his wife if she's say 10 years or so younger. She will still look good in comparison to him and so no need, usually. Once a guy gets into his 60s or older then most girls start losing interest unless he's mega wealthy and they are real gold diggers.

I think that was the real problem in the 90s on the UK when divorce became easier (responding to demand) and was rife. Too many people had married with the woman just 2-3 years or so younger than them, if that. We often still balk in the west as too a big age gap as if the guy is somewhat deluded (with western women maybe so) that she could be into him for anything other than wealth. But really I think that a larger age gap may be better for avoiding divorce.

[Boethius]

^This is the stupidest thing I have read here in some time.

[Steamer]

The age doesn't matter it's the mindset. If both want to make sure that it will work and are willing to work at it then it will work.

[ML]

If both want to make sure that it will work and are willing to work at it then it will work.

Succinctly and well put.

However, in many cases (including my own regarding first marriage) the time often comes when one or both parties do not want it to work (continue).

[krimster2]

I agree, the right time to marry, is when you feel you're ready
for me, it was age 40...
both my daughters happily married at age 20/21

I see the advantages of marrying young like they did
it wasn't an option for me...
when I was younger, I worked 7 day weeks and usually had no social life
and had a sub-prime dating experience compared to what I was used to
cuz I was too busy to really spend much time lookin
and no freakin way, was I gonna marry any of crazy women I met in California


it was only after I started my own company, that I had the time/money to invest in seeking a quality partner, without those two assets, I would've remained single


the problem with marriage and raising a family
is that for more and more people, it's just not financially viable now, and is worsening
and that leads to a lot of stress in the marriage, which fails as a result

my best advice to single dewds
learn how to make money, before you think about marriage
cuz you're gonna need a WHOLE bunch of it after you say "I DO"

[Daveman]

...

my best advice to single dewds
learn how to make money, before you think about marriage
cuz you're gonna need a WHOLE bunch of it after you say "I DO"

Exactly this.  Your 20's are for learning how and making bank -- focusing on his own betterment and success. Most men don't hit their prime in that regard until their 30's. Marriage should be at the bottom of the list during the build your empire years.

[Trenchcoat]

^This is the stupidest thing I have read here in some time.

Do I get an accolade for it?

You're not worried about Mr Boe are you?

[Boethius]

You’re assuming I give any credence to your crackpot incel “theories”.

[2tallbill]

I think in some respects a bit of an age gap with the woman significantly younger than the man say 5 years plus may actually help. It avoids men getting into their 50s seeing that they are married to an old bag about the same age and not wanting to be in bed with her, wanting to dump her, etc. In their 50s men are usually at the height of their economic wealth, a lifetime of earnings behind them, the mortgage paid off on their house and work skills honed to help keep them in employment and earn well. All that wealth is highly desirable to many young women even if a divorce costs the guy half his house he's still way ahead than many twenty year old guys. The older woman in contrast her looks fading is often losing out on the hypergamy scale leading to the old saying from the guy of, 'trade her in for a younger model'. That is of course very unpleasant for the woman being ditched usually after the kids have grown up and moved out, if any, and with nowhere to go.

However, no guy in his fifties is likely to contemplate ditching his wife if she's say 10 years or so
younger. She will still look good in comparison to him and so no need, usually. Once a guy gets
into his 60s or older then most girls start losing interest unless he's mega wealthy and they
are real gold diggers.

Igorant stupid idea, dumb thought, yada, yada, misdiagnosed theory, brain fart, yada, yada,
Blah, blah, blah, blah, dumb thought, yada, yada, blah, blah, blah, brain fart, yada, yada, blah,
Igorant stupid idea, dumb thought, yada, yada, misdiagnosed theory, brain fart, yada, yada,
blah, blah, blah, and so on, and so forth, yada, yada, misdiagnosed theory, yada, yada, blah,
Blah, blah, blah, blah, dumb thought, yada, yada, blah, blah, blah, brain fart, yada, yada, blah,
Blah, blah, blah, blah, dumb thought, yada, yada, blah, blah, blah, brain fart, yada, yada, blah,
Blah, blah, blah, blah, dumb thought, yada, yada, blah, blah, blah, brain fart, yada, yada, blah,
Igorant stupid idea, dumb thought, yada, yada, misdiagnosed theory, brain fart, yada, yada,

Faulty assumptions followed by a hasty generalization/conclusions.

70 percent of divorces are brought on by women. Faulty assumption was that men getting tired
of their wives which leads to divorce,

Women bring on divorce. Trench starts making silly generalizations based on his f#cked up
assumptions.

I had a University buddy that took logic and received a D grade, so he took it again hoping
to improve upon it and received an F, Trench is his doppleganger. Nobody can read something
then falsely analyze or misinterpret the information more consistently than Trench.

2tallbills theories
The primary reason for divorce for second marriages is
1. Men marry feminists who read, listen to, and consume feminist garbage.
2. Men marry women that they love more than the woman loves them.
3. Men assume too much, project too much, do not accurately read,
then tend to overlook faults and character flaws that women have then
marry them anyway. 
4. Men don't ask enough important life questions to a woman about her theories
on life and expectations AND they don't listen to the answers, read number 3
again.
5. Men do not effectively weed out women who don't fit them based on items 1 through 4.


The primary reasons for divorce from first marriages is
1. Men marry feminists who read, listen to, and consume feminist garbage.
2. Women don't know wtf they want or value when they are young.
3. Men marry women with character flaws or are flawed themselves.

None of this answers the original question.

Men should work on themselves maximizing their health, body, and earnings before
ever considering marriage. Only then to consider finding or pursuing a high character
woman. See Krim's post and Daveman's   

I realize that still doesn't answer the question.

[ML]

No matter how hard you try to make the right choice . . . marriage is still a 'crap-shoot.'

People change; even as some basic characteristics might be constant.

Praying after marriage might be useful.

[Boethius]

Faulty assumptions followed by a hasty generalization/conclusions.

70 percent of divorces are brought on by women. Faulty assumption was that men getting tired
of their wives which leads to divorce,

Women bring on divorce. Trench starts making silly generalizations based on his f#cked up
assumptions.

I had a University buddy that took logic and received a D grade, so he took it again hoping
to improve upon it and received an F, Trench is his doppleganger. Nobody can read something
then falsely analyze or misinterpret the information more consistently than Trench.

2tallbills theories
The primary reason for divorce for second marriages is
1. Men marry feminists who read, listen to, and consume feminist garbage.
2. Men marry women that they love more than the woman loves them.
3. Men assume too much, project too much, do not accurately read,
then tend to overlook faults and character flaws that women have then
marry them anyway. 
4. Men don't ask enough important life questions to a woman about her theories
on life and expectations AND they don't listen to the answers, read number 3
again.
5. Men do not effectively weed out women who don't fit them based on items 1 through 4.


The primary reasons for divorce from first marriages is
1. Men marry feminists who read, listen to, and consume feminist garbage.
2. Women don't know wtf they want or value when they are young.
3. Men marry women with character flaws or are flawed themselves.

None of this answers the original question.

Men should work on themselves maximizing their health, body, and earnings before
ever considering marriage. Only then to consider finding or pursuing a high character
woman. See Krim's post and Daveman's   

I realize that still doesn't answer the question.

Lack of commitment is cited as the primary cause of marital breakdown.  The second most common is infidelity.  So, I disagree, rather vehemently, with your assertion that "feminism" is to blame, whatever that means.

[krimster2]

i'm not basing my opinion on other people's theories...
but solely on the marriages that i've personally seen fall apart

what I see is a lot of narcissisitic women who were unwilling to change their behavior after marriage
as a result, their husbands would perceive them as being excessively selfish and demanding
then both partners become dis-satisfied with each other and that leads to anger
and finally the end of the relationship

i've seen this over and over
especially with American women
good lookin American wimmin will havce MUCH bigger egos than good lookin' Ukrainian wimmin
so you don't have to pay the "Beautiful but Crazy" tax when you saddle-up over there
this is why "Imports" are so popular among the discerning few, such as your humble narrator
why would you pick a Chevy over a Lexus?

and once you go with THE BEST
you'll soon forget about THE REST

SLOVO!

all my American EX's ended up in multiple failed marriages...
marryin an american is like russian roulette

OTOH, a good ukrainian wife is worth her weight in gold

[Boethius]

One of my American cousins is divorced. Her husband was a nice guy, but an alcoholic. I believe his alcoholism was the cause of their divorce.

Most of the divorces I have seen were caused by infidelity. Usually by the man.

[Daveman]

I'm convinced the majority of divorces, which are statistically overwhelmingly initiated by women, is based on the fact she "settled" for a man because she couldn't tame the bad boys, or whatever, she was actually yearning for, then, of course, isn't "happy" in the situation.

Don't settle for being an option.

[krimster2]

good observation Daveman
i've seen that as well, American wimmin, if not married at age 30, will "settle" for some dewd that they met at work
and the longer they're married to this poor fool, the longer they're gonna hate him
until finally they divorce and his life is ruined
all my American ex-girlfriends went this route
and it would've been better to have been their dog, than their husband
I can't imagine what'd be like to be married to a shrew
and then once you end the marriage, she takes MORE than half of what you spent your whole life earning

so...
what I wanna point out to all you "dumb ass white boyz" out there
is the Law of Supply and Demand in the "dating Market" and how this factor relates to your success

being able to travel to a venue that has a shortage of "white boyz" is one of the few ways you dumb asses have of "gaming" the system in your favor, instead of against you, like it is in your home court, cuz of that BAD over supply of white boyz there...

ergo, a place with a low white boy count, will have a HIGHER demand for white boyz

I raise my glass and toast "to new venues and vistas"
Vinni Vicci

I am now content with the fruit in my own orchard
and have no need of travel now

[Daveman]

Not sure the supply really matters for men who do not make themselves the prize. . Eighty percent of women chase the same twenty percent of men. I think it's more like 90/10.Just going to a higher supply doesn't create shortcuts in the process. If you're not her prize it's going to go fubar at some point.

[krimster2]

the "prize" has elastic relative value
In silicon valley, you're just another upper-income, college educated, IT worker, one of a huge legion of them

but in Ukraine, YOU'RE A WHOLE HELL OF A LOT MORE THAN THAT!
you are the unique doorway to the gateway of a life in the west for an attractive Ukrainian girl

just like I need a sleeping dictionary in Uzbeckistan
Ukrainian women need the same for life in the west
it's a TOUGH JOB but someone's gotta do it
and it PAYS REALLY, REALLY WELL!!!

so my advice, cultivate the possibility of serving as a sleeping dictionary, for an ambitious ukrainian woman looking to move West

[Daveman]

the "prize" has elastic relative value
...

I don't necessarily disagree with your post.

Perhaps prize isn't a good word. Maybe Prince?

Let's try it a different way...

When a woman is madly in love with you, you should absolutely see it in every aspect of her being/behavior (you've detailed this precisely in many of your posts). If you love her more than she loves you - you are an option.  Perhaps a long term option but still an option. If she's madly in love with you she'll move heaven hell and earth for you.

[Boethius]

WW usually have the means to support themselves. So they don’t have to put up with crappy husbands.

FSUW/WM marriages have a higher failure rate than do WW/WM marriages. So the premise presented here is false.

[ML]

WW usually have the means to support themselves. So they don’t have to put up with crappy husbands.

Yes, and isn't this the reason for the increased divorce rate over the past several decades?

I think I read that women file the majority of divorce cases in USA.

In my grandparent's generation, divorce  was virtually unheard of among our friends, family, townfolks, etc.  Because  women had no means of supporting themselves.

In my parent's generation, the divorce rate picked up.

In my generation it is 50% or more.

All due to not keeping the women barefoot and pregnant !! :-)

[krimster2]

statistics are for average people

bringin a Ukrainian woman home is no big thing
same deal as if ya brought home a stray cat or dawg
YA GOTTA TAKE CARE OF IT!!!!

wife/husband?
that's just for "documentation"
I took her from Ukraine, so she's mine now, and she can't go back even if she wanted to!!!

once you "break 'em in"
Ukrainian wimmin ARE EXTREMELY loyal and offer 'great utility' both in the kitchen AND bedroom
no home is really complete without one

come and get 'em BEFORE the fallout and the wimmin all get inoperable thyroid cancer - you can spot it by lookin at 'em, eyes and protruding thyroid!!!

while I for one, will welcome our new robot overlords and will find ways to make myself useful to them while also selling them out to the resistance!

[Trenchcoat]

WW usually have the means to support themselves. So they don’t have to put up with crappy husbands.

FSUW/WM marriages have a higher failure rate than do WW/WM marriages. So the premise presented here is false.

That's the problem WW get income with the third extra or whatever men used to get, so equal income. What can most do with it? Buy crap in the shops, fashion brands etc that they wish for. What are men going to do with their third less or whatever equal pay, buy crap in the shops, Xboxes, etc. Neither get a pay high enough to buy decent accommodation with. The woman wants the man to have the money to do this, few do. The man wants to be able to buy decent accommodation few can neither can many women.

Result: Falling population and the people sat around ultimately miserable by themselves and people scratching their heads wondering why?

The crunch of it all is that system just doesn't work. Even if people weren't miserable there is the problem of falling population and problems with an aging population that brings, pensions, etc.

FSU marriages I think are different, they fail more to the character of many FSU people of being obstinate and not willing to back down. Western ways are different so a different ball game.

[krimster2]

how AWFUL!!!

you poor single guys have to cook your own meals and clean your own squalor, and satisfy your  meager sexual longings with porn

in Uzbeckistan, if a woman feels comfortable with you and trusts you, they have a REAL INTERESTING pick-up style...
when they get you alone, they just TAKE THEIR FREAKIN CLOTHES OFF RIGHT IN FRONT OF YA!!!  then they look ya in the eye "alluringly" and then at your crotch
and you got this WTF! OMG! look, and then THEY GOT YA, just like that!
you a rabbit in the headlights about to be hit by a truck!
cuz whatever LoLa wants, LoLa gets...

then whatcha gonna do?
they ALL got these crazy-ass fathers and brothers to!!!

you want it...
but...
ahhhh - let me just touch it a little bit first...
and then decide!!!
oh, alright!!

good thing my lips are mirror smooth
and don't have to worry about birth control either!

you are the plaything of a sleek powerful eurasian jungle cat
you must learn to tame it and make it purr, or it will scratch you to pieces
the best way of taming one of these violent eurasians is with "tenderness" combined with giving them a climax (orally)
together, these two things REALLY soothes the savage beast
and you will get the hottest sex you've ever had
and you can go beyond any porn you've EVER seen!

also, a lotta these women are ALSO really good business people and hard workin!
for instance, my moldovan/ukrainian wife has a cosmetics business and owns several skin care salons
I made some serious $$$ sponsoring my wife's businesses!!! 
and it gets her "out of the house" so me and my dawg can spend all day in the woods, if we wanna
lookin fer them wild hawg tracks

seriously, give American wimmin a PASS
Eurasia or the FSU is the place to be


PS*
Russia/Ukraine also has the "GET NAKED" thing, called the "Bania"or sauna
after 3rd date, ask her what "bania" means, act "innocent"
try to get her to take ya to one

then at last second, you realize innocently, "oh, we have to take off ALL of our clothes"
DA!  all of em

the two of ya go int the sauna as nekkid as thee day you wuz born

so, which way of gettin nekkid does you like the most?
Uzbeckistan, woman takes off all her clothes and "flashes you"
Ukraine, the two of ya get nekkid together in a sauna

honestly, it's difficult for me to choose
how about you guyz?



*clean underwear is a MUST!!!
nothin worse than takin off your undewear in the bania
and there, plain as day, a big huge SKID MARK!!!
NO!!! NO!!!
alwys go with DARK colored underwear
WTF, you knuckleheads with white underwear!!!
especially after dysentary, which is common to travlers in the FSU!!!!

white underwear, is the most "rookie" travel mistake that someone could make...
is there anyone on this board, who would dispute this assertion?
if there is, let them speak now...

[Trenchcoat]

No I concur with the underwear, not just for Banja's but for everyday life too. I got rid off all my light coloured underwear several years ago, any mark just stands out a mile and doesn't look good. So now my underwear is pretty much all navy blue. Black I'm not sure if women like it that much as they tend to like the colour White but like you say Krim no good for underwear.

I was thinking just yesterday how much I could have enjoyed growing up in the FSU, Ukraine for example, or possibly best going over there in my late teens/early twenties with a clue as to what to do and how it all worked. I could have really lived!

My stupid younger self didn't realise that I would have been best if going to University there and didn't know that I wouldn't have been short off women. My stupid younger self didn't realise that I was existing in some warped western world where the women were no longer motivated to get with men unless they were the top guys, as Daveman says the top 10 percent or so of guys.

As a tall 6ft guy in the prime of my life, even everyday looking I could have scored big with the women. Instead, a life lost in this country with women that just don't care. With the right FSW I could have built a great life for myself at a young age. Now that time has unfortunately passed. My best hope is to get my house complete, rent out the rooms, get in a good financial position and see what I can fish over there.

If I ever had kids, boys, I would get them learning Russian or whatever early and let them know of the great time they can have over there with the women. I would tell them not to waste their time with women in the UK and go over with them for them to see soon after hitting puberty. Then when getting towards mid to late teens I would tell them to search around, have done fun (always with protection) and finally settle on the best one they like by their early twenties.

Divorce, well I don't think it's so much down to when you we'd but the people involved, how they are and how they understand things, or don't. My parents married in their early twenties and never divorced. At one or two points they may have been close, arguments & not getting on. They weren't quite the same personality, my mother not outgoing where my father much moreso and adventurous. I don't think you have to be the same personality but personalities have to sit well enough with one another.

Anyway, FSU scene may be changing with the war, or may not. If Ukraine had only held onto some of its nukes the war likely wouldn't have happened and all would be the same. It may still be again all up in the air at the moment.