School help for my wife?

[Blues Fairy]

That people with low income also pay taxes.

Wrong, actually. 40% of the population do not pay federal income tax and some are even eligible for tax credit.

Department of the Treasury (Treasury) has found that some U.S. corporations have aggressively set transfer prices1 to move income to offshore jurisdictions to avoid U.S. taxes.2 Some offshore jurisdictions have no or nominal taxes and are sometimes referred to as tax havens. 
How much that companies, upper classes care about the poor people's needs, hiding billions?

You know what's funny?  The higher the corporate taxes, the more corporations tend to evade them.  But as soon as you drop the taxes, they come out and start paying, and IRS's revenue increases dramatically!  It's a proven dependence and all historical stats support it. 
Now, a question to you: is it practical to raise taxes on corporations and expect them to act morally, or drop the taxes and instantly enjoy better tax revenues?  Should we really care about their morality, or should we accept that businesses will always act out of personal interest ("greed"), and tax them rationally, so they don't resist paying?

But those women also don't want to be alone  in their old age. And their children are also workers and taxpayers in the future. There are many different circumstances why a woman can be a lone mother. Try to live on paycheck and you will be surprised how many single moms with two children prefer to work.

Let them, by all means.  A working single mom has all the tax breaks and opportunities to live a happy life.  And yes, there should be welfare programs and they should be strictly regulated.  But do you know how the present regulations came into place?  The Republicans pushed five times through legislation that to be eligible for unemployment checks, a person has to be actively trying, etc. etc.  Clinton turned them down five times.  Five times!  Before the Reps won majority and finally got the regulations in place.  And guess what, the reform worked wonders in the very first years, unemployment went down and sure Clinton took all the credit for it.  Now Obama wants to reverse everything and pushes the stimulus packages to expand welfare programs.  No wonder some governors are resisting - unlike you, they can actually predict the consequences. 

But no worries Olga, if you don't mind paying for welfare, the Government will allways be there to collect your money.  Whether you'll get any of it back, that's the more interesting question.

[OlgaH]

Wrong, actually. 40% of the population do not pay federal income tax and some are even eligible for tax credit.

Actually:

About 38 percent of households have zero or negative income tax liability, but they pay other federal taxes. According to the Urban-Brookings Tax Policy Center, it is true that 38 percent of "tax units" -- which can be singles, couples, or families -- are projected to have zero or negative income tax liability in 2009. About 60 percent of these households make $20,000 per year or less.

You know what's funny?  The higher the corporate taxes, the more corporations tend to evade them.  But as soon as you drop the taxes, they come out and start paying, and IRS's revenue increases dramatically!  It's a proven dependence and all historical stats support it. 
Now, a question to you: is it practical to raise taxes on corporations and expect them to act morally, or drop the taxes and instantly enjoy better tax revenues?  Should we really care about their morality, or should we accept that businesses will always act out of personal interest ("greed"), and tax them rationally, so they don't resist paying?

About tax cut:
$350 billion package engineered by Mr. Bush in 2003 -- contained $231 billion in 2004 and 2005.

And so what?

 Real median earnings of full-time year-round male workers fell by nearly $1,000 (from $41,761 to $40,798), a decline of 2.3 percent.

Real median earnings of full-time year-round female workers fell by over $300, or 1 percent (from $31,550 to $31,223), marking the second consecutive year of decline.  This is the first time since 1995 that the median earnings of full-time year-round female workers have dropped for two years in a row.

Real median income among the working-age population — households headed by adults under 65 fell by $600 (from $51,559 to $50,923), a decline of 1.2 percent.  (Overall median income for all households was unchanged.)

The number of people who work but live in poverty increased by 563,000.  The poverty rate increased among this group from 5.8 percent to 6.1 percent.

Among people age 18 to 64 who work, the number who were uninsured climbed by 772,000, and the percentage without insurance rose from 18.6 percent to 19.0 percent.

The percentage of people with employer-based health insurance coverage fell below 60 percent to 59.8 percent — for the first time since 1993.

The poverty rate in 2004 remained significantly higher than in 2001, the year of the recession.  The number of people in poverty increased from 32.9 million in 2001 and 35.9 million in 2003 to 37 million in 2004. The poverty rate rose from 11.7 percent in 2001 (and 12.5 percent in 2003) to 12.7 percent in 2004.  The rise in poverty in 2004 is particularly disturbing because 2004 represented the third full year of the economic recovery.
http://www.cbpp.org/cms/?fa=view&id=632

Economic recovery for whom?

 August 29, 2007
The nation's poverty rate declined last year for the first time this decade, but the number of Americans without health insurance rose to a record 47 million, according to annual census figures released yesterday.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/08/28/AR2007082800779.html

[Blues Fairy]

As for poverty: do I really have to explain why, after welfare benefits have been cut and regulations imposed on them, there was 1) an increase in the number of poor people (who suddenly lost their welfare checks); 2) an increase in the number of poor people who work (who went to work for minimum wage instead of continuing to receive welfare checks); 3) a drop in median wage (because more people working for minimum wage were now part of the workforce, instead of receiving welfare checks)... and so on, and so forth?

Olga, you have an amazing ability to dig up and quote massive texts and stats, but I suggest you start looking at these texts and stats a little more critically.   

And you didn't answer my question.  Please try, without resorting to links and quotes of someone else's opinions. 

[OlgaH]

I also would suggest you to look at the stats  a little more critically.   

You wrote:

Olga,
But for that, one needs a good job market where employers are not overtaxed by the government so they can actually create those well-paying jobs, which pay for insurance and other expenses.  

and I gave an example what happened when taxes were cut . Yes, unemployment rate fell by 0,6% from December 2002 to December 2004 and by 1,5 from December 2002 to December 2005 but average hourly earnings rose just by 8 cents to December 2006. Look through the archives of United States Labor Department.  0,6% got the jobs. But what jobs they got that poverty increased? In 2003 even not every state had minimum wage law.  Who benefited from that cuts? Not people, but the companies that got their taxes cut and plus very cheap labor force. Because people did not have any other choice.

May 21, 2003
 On average, 350,000 workers are exhausting their regular benefits each month.  Over the next six months, two million workers will exhaust their regular benefits...

Workers who will exhaust regular unemployment benefits between June and November 2003 - 2,101,000, Workers who will exhaust TEUC by the end of May and still be unemployed at that time - 1,104,000, Workers who will exhaust TEUC benefits in June, July, and August - 682,000, Estimated number of total workers affected - 3.9 million.

[Blues Fairy]

Yes, unemployment rate fell by 0,6% from December 2002 to December 2004 and by 1,5 from December 2002 to December 2005 but average hourly earnings rose just by 8 cents to December 2006.
Who benefited from that cuts? Not people, but the companies that got their taxes cut and plus very cheap labor force. Because people did not have any other choice.

Olga, once again: do you really find it surprising that after welfare has been cut and unemployment went down, average wages did not jump sky-high?  Think about it: 2% that were previously on welfare go back to work and hourly wages still manage to grow 8%!!  You seriously think it's better to pay people for being idle at the expense of the rest, rather than have them work low-paying jobs and support themselves? 

I'm sorry to disappoint you but in any society, welfare or no welfare, there will be people who will live in relative poverty, because they are unable or unwilling to perform work that pays decent money.  The question is, should we punish those wo do earn decent money for being able and willing to do so?  Should we punish businesses which provide the jobs, both low and high paying?   

[OlgaH]

Olga, once again: do you really find it surprising that after welfare has been cut and unemployment went down, average wages did not jump sky-high?  Think about it: 2% that were previously on welfare go back to work and hourly wages still manage to grow 8%!! 

manage to grow just 8 cents. How much is 8 cents?

[OlgaH]

You seriously think it's better to pay people for being idle at the expense of the rest, rather than have them work low-paying jobs and support themselves?    

Can you support yourself earning $5-$7 per hour?

[OlgaH]

I'm sorry to disappoint you but in any society, welfare or no welfare, there will be people who will live in relative poverty, because they are unable or unwilling to perform work that pays decent money.  The question is, should we punish those wo do earn decent money for being able and willing to do so?  Should we punish businesses which provide the jobs, both low and high paying?   

Why do you think you are much better than all that people who lost their jobs?
Why do you think that workers don't deserve a salary that will let them pay taxes, medical insurance and save for their retirement?

United States Department of Labor
State Unemployment Insurance Benefits
Purpose
In general, the Federal-State Unemployment Insurance Program provides unemployment benefits to eligible workers who are unemployed through no fault of their own (as determined under State law), and meet other eligibility requirements of State law.

When can benefit payments be denied?
# Being discharged for misconduct connected with work. Misconduct is an intentional or controllable act or failure to take action, which shows a deliberate disregard of the employer's interests.
# Not being able to work or available for work. You must be able, ready and willing to accept a suitable job.
# Refusing an offer of suitable work.
# Knowingly making false statements to obtain benefit payments.

Robert and I not long time ago met people who Robert knows for long time, friends and clients. They are hard working people and now they lost their jobs. Nor Robert neither me feel punished knowing that taxes that we pay help them to survive while they are looking for a job.

[HiTech]

Robert and I not long time ago met people who Robert knows for long time, friends and clients. They are hard working people and now they lost their jobs. Nor Robert neither me feel punished knowing that taxes that we pay help them to survive while they are looking for a job.

Do not confuse unemployment Insurance with welfare. The 2 items are funded completely differently, and have 2 different requirements.

Also Do not make the mistake of thinking companies and corporations make money and pay taxes.  We use words like they do, but in reality only people make money and pay taxes. The left side of the argument quite often likes to push taxes onto things that they can say are  entities. Hence they are not taking money for people but things.

Corporations are only a form of money management & contract so that people have a standard method of risk/reward in owing there own business or sharing ownership in a business.  The money is risked and made by PEOPLE not the cooperation.


HiTech

[kievstar]

If countries have high corporate income tax rates you move operations overseas to take advantage of low corporate income taxes.  Zurich Switzerland has very low corporate taxes.  USA has very high income taxes as compared to the rest of the World.

USA has one advantage is that you can carry net losses forward for tax deductions for corporations.  Companies like GM, Chrysler, and certain Big banks have a lot of value once their profitable.  Obama is looking at eliminating the corporate tax loss carryforward.  This will mean most USA based companies who have loss carryforwards will relocate to London or other tax friendly cities.

The company I work at currently lost money in the USA in past and will not have to pay taxes for the next 10 years in the USA eventhough profitable in the USA now.  We already have the paper work ready to relocate overseas if Obama changes the law.  Net impact is about $6 million usd of annual salary income tax goes overseas that USA government currently gets.  I work for a small company so only $6 million. People need to really consider the impact of employees lost wages and tax when big companies are penalized with higher taxes or no tax incentives. 

[OlgaH]

Do not confuse unemployment Insurance with welfare. The 2 items are funded completely differently, and have 2 different requirements.

HiTech

HiTech,

I know what Unemployment tax and Social Security Tax is, we also submit our federal income tax return and I also know why we are entitled to an economic stimulus payment as provided by the Economic Stimulus Act.

[Blues Fairy]

Why do you think you are much better than all that people who lost their jobs?
Why do you think that workers don't deserve a salary that will let them pay taxes, medical insurance and save for their retirement?

Olga, I said, a certain portion of people will always be poor due to objective reasons, e.g. their lack of adequate skills or work discipline etc.  They will get paid according to their input, OR stay at home and subsist on welfare.  Who says anything about deserving/ not deserving? 

I always have trouble arguing with people like you who bring a moral aspect into any discussion, interpret the views of their opponent as extreme and suggest that the opponent is thus immoral and cannot be taken seriously. 

E.g. I say: some people will always be poor because they cannot/will not work. 
You say: you don't think they deserve to have decent income?? 
I say: but why should the others be punished?
You say: Why do you think you are much better than all that people who lost their jobs?

And voila, I am the extremist who tramples on basic human rights, and the rest of your argument is ad hominem exploring my own inadequacies.  Very nice.

[OlgaH]

 
E.g. I say: some people will always be poor because they cannot/will not work. 
You say: you don't think they deserve to have decent income?? 
I say: but why should the others be punished?
You say: Why do you think you are much better than all that people who lost their jobs?

And voila, I am the extremist who tramples on basic human rights, and the rest of your argument is ad hominem exploring my own inadequacies.  Very nice.

Who are those people who can not work in your opinion? 
People will not work if there is no work for them.

Take Florida unemployment insurance benefits. As of December, 2008, FL benefits ranged from $32 to $275. Florida state unemployment benefits are subject to Federal income taxes, and you may elect to have taxes withheld from your unemployment check. Though Florida unemployment compensation benefits are increasing by $25 a week due to federal stimulus funding, think how you can survive even on $300 per weak. 

People who lose their jobs because of lack of work discipline don not meet the eligibility requirements.

You say: cut taxes and there will be more jobs. In June 2001 Bush signed into law - a $1.35 trillion tax cut over 10 years, the unemployment rate that was at that time 4.5 percent rose to 6.0 percent in December 2002. Where is all that $1.35 trillion tax cut now after 10 years? How that tax cut helped. What part of population has been punished, most likely also by "extremist who trample on basic human rights"?    And an increase in minimum wage happens only with the government intervention.

Blues Fairy,
A society that doesn't bring a moral aspect should not have the motto "In God We Trust".
There always will be a moral aspect as should we push a 18 y.o. girl for abortion or should we have a social program that will help her and her child?  Should we let an old person who whole his life was working hard for minimum wage and now can not afford medical treatment die or should we have a social program".

[Turboguy]

Personally I side with Blues Fairy on this one.  Yes, there are people who really want jobs and can't find them.  That is especially true right now.  Usually they find a job sooner or later and they bust their fanny to do that but they do find a job.

There are still ton's of welfare bumm's who live off those who work and do their best to only work if they don't qualify for some kind of government dole.  There are lots of people who work in seasonal work and could work in the off season but prefer to sit around watching TV and drinking beer.   There are ton's of people who fake injuries so they can get disability pay.

I had one working for me.  He called one day and asked my office manager if our insurance was paid up and the next day came to work early claimed he moved something heavy and injured his back before anyone else was there.  He has been living comfortably for a decade now.  He does a lot of jobs for cash and does quite well all tax free.  About a year ago I saw him get into a fist fight with someone in a bar.  Quite frankly  his back is better than mine.

My own personal opinion is that less than 40% of the people living off those of us who work are really deserving

[OlgaH]

 There are ton's of people who fake injuries so they can get disability pay.

I don't know if there ton's or not, but I agree there are people who fake disability and disability fraud can be difficult to detect.

But disability can be not only physical, but also mental.
According to statistic 2005 "26.2 percent of Americans ages 18 and older — about one in four adults — suffer from a diagnosable mental disorder". "... approximate number of people in the United States suffering from schizophrenia: over 2.2 million people", "approximately 3.2 million American adults ages 18 to 54 (NIMH); estimated 4.9% adults (USSG) suffering from agoraphobia".

"Chronic Dizziness: Often associated with problems of the inner ear, chronic dizziness can lead to impairment when walking, driving, working, sleeping, and other common tasks".

Disability Fraud - Disability Scam
http://www.bustathief.com/disability-fraud-disability-scam/

[SANDRO43]

There are still tons of welfare bums who live off those who work and do their best to only work if they don't qualify for some kind of government dole. 

Pointer to a story from a long time ago and Canada, as related by my former FIL: http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/index.php?topic=3062.msg57025#msg57025.

[Simoni]

Hi folks,

Nata is attending the local college, and she is starting to have problems with some of the reading assignments.
Not the actual mechanics of reading---she has no problem with that. The problem is in the comprehension and relavance of some of the reading assignments.

A lot of her assignments are passages relating to US history, political events---culture stuff. She simply has no reference to form opinions or make inferences from a small passage; without the underlying culture to help.

If you ask her to read an assignment and then answer factual question she can pull that off; but when you ask for her opinion, or "how did that make you feel" she has no idea what to answer---it is simply "not important."

Any suggestions?

I'll quote the entirety of the original post; some here don't mind ruining a good topic with their political posturing.

Aikorob, you need to "take" the course along with her; you at home and she at the university.  By this, I mean you should read all the assignments and "talk her through" how you would respond to assignments and class discussions.  Have her do her own writing, but then edit it for her, showing her the needed changes and why you suggest them. This will help her understand the context behind the words in the books. Over time, it will make a major contribution toward her ability to move to independence.

Second, it is vitally important that she make appointments and personally meet and talk to the professors one on one.  This will show the professor that she really cares about the class and wants to learn.  Believe me, this will influence how the professor evaluates your wife as she or he gives grades.

And remember, if she gets a "B" in a class it is like the "A" native speakers get.  So be satisfied with those "C" and "B"s as she takes courses.

That is the problem when attending other than top tier universities.  The quality of teachers can be less than stellar.  Nevertheless, an immigrant may not be able to stay up with students at a top tier university.  My wife would have that problem.  This is not easy.

Excellent point, Gator.  Teachers at community colleges tend to not have earned a Ph.D, and if they did, not from a top-tier university. Also, they are so busy with teaching 3 times the number of classes that a university professor teaches that they tend to be poorly read in the field and are not involved in the critical research that should inform their teaching.

But, more importantly, the student body at a community college tends to also be from the bottom-- students that can't get into the university.  We learn from those around us, and if a student is surrounded by the bottom 10% of American high school students--oh my!

My advice for men with an FSU wife is to get them admitted to the best university program they can.  They'll learn much more if you do.

[GQBlues]

aikorob-

My wife and I recently went through this experience, or more accurately, my wife did.

She arrived in '05 with an English level of maybe 1.5, 2 at best. She settled in for the first 6 months and thereafter enrolled herself in 2 neighborhood ESL classes. A year after arrival, she enrolled in our community college.

I asked her about her experience in dealing with this issue and she responded by saying that in her opinion, one of the most helpful aid she received was to sign up for 'English 101, Reading and Composition for Foreigners' her first college semester. She only took 1 other class that semester. There were multiple ENG 101 available but only one specifically tailored for foreigners. According to her, after she finished the class, all the other classes seemed a little bit easier to digest.

She also took US history and still remains as one of her most favorite class she's ever taken in the US. She credits the professor for this fact. According to her, everyone in the class seemed to enjoy learning, reading, discussing every subject they dove into. This made the study sessions enjoyable which really helped to keep interest level, which in turn gave her inspiration, motivation, and most importantly made her both comfortable and confident around the campus.

She eventually transferred to a California State University in pursuit of her degree. She is due to graduate at the end of this semester and she made the Dean's List every single semester since enrolling. She recently attended an awards banquet ceremony for her graduating class and she received a certificate of merit for academic achievement. She will be graduating with honors.

To fulfill the required credit, she's currently attending one class at night and a home study course the Univesity made available for her to satisfy the final academic requirements for her degree. She's doing this while working full time for the last 2 months. So far she's received two job offers after graduation which is surprising since we thought she'd have to go through internship first.

I believe the key for her was getting that feeling of being comfortable in her environment, which helped her a great deal with self esteem and confidence. Like I said above, she basically took measured baby-steps in the beginning until she reached a point in herself where she knew she was ready to tackle more and more.

Good luck.

[logansh]

I've been associate faculty at a community college for almost 7 years.  Community colleges are a strong educational choice because of their connection with the community they serve.  This is their focus from administration to faculty.  As with any learner, the more she contacts the instructor the better.  My daughter, native English speaker, has learned the same technique.  Talk, talk, talk to the instructor.  Especially in a community college the instructor wants nothing more than the success of their students.

I've also taught GED courses to people who were also working on their US citizenship.  I was surprised with the amount of content built into the GED ... all GED courses that incorporate a lot of the 'reference' that is needed for hight level instruction.  I don't know that I would enroll her in a GED course and stop college, I think that buying a GED book and working with her.  It wouldn't hurt to find a US Citizenship guide also.  The Internet is replete with sources for both including Youtube. 

My two cents.

[Aloe]

GQBlues, wow thats very impressive, congrats. Just 1 little question, if you don't mind, who takes care of all the housework while your wife is working full-time and studying? She has the energy to do the housework too?