The Struggle For Ukraine

[GQBlues]

Ukraine pilots will fly out of Poland airstrips with 70 donated planes from Poland, Bulgaria, Slovakia.
http://ukraine.segodnya.ua/ukraine/evropa-peredast-ukraine-70-istrebiteley-mig-29-i-su-25-dlya-aviaudarov-po-agressoru-1605977.html

Interesting. Unless the Ruskies missed an airfield or two, one has to wonder where will they land these planes, fuel and take-off again? I'm certain the Ruskies have satellites too to see these (airfields) from space? Of course, if they fly from and back again in Poland to refuel/re-arm, then technically Poland had joined the war, no?

[Chelseaboy]

Need to be careful of what Ukraine says.


The President thanked Turkey for closing access to the Black Sea to Russian naval forces....when they hadn't.


It would be asking for trouble from Russia if Ukrainian fighters are flying in and out of Poland,unless NATO want to use Russia bombing Polish airfields as a pretext to bring them into the war.

[Jumper1]

I could open it.  It's just a brochure for an epidemiological institute in Odesa.  It studies infectious disease.

Bio labs are understandably the new catch phrase of conspiracy.

They are needed,are generally everywhere (making conspiracy ties easy)
and instrumental in forwarding healthcare.

I do wish there were even more stringent regulations world wide regarding what is reasonably safe in the direction of research.

But it is pretty far out there to thinkn
 putins hitting biolabs as a good guy .
Im.sure he might try to spin it though along with  thst nazi line

[Boethius]

Need to be careful of what Ukraine says.


The President thanked Turkey for closing access to the Black Sea to Russian naval forces....when they hadn't.


It would be asking for trouble from Russia if Ukrainian fighters are flying in and out of Poland,unless NATO want to use Russia bombing Polish airfields as a pretext to bring them into the war.

http://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/turkey-implement-international-pact-access-shipping-straits-due-ukraine-war-2022-02-27/


I assume Zelensky was told of the impending meeting in Turkey, and the inevitable outcome.

[Jumper1]

I didn't watch it all...as soon as he said Putin is avoiding targeting civilians i turned it off.


How does that tally up with his use of Grad missiles against civilians in Kharkiv today ?

I'm no putin apologist.
I recognize that he hasnt hit as hard as he could have ,and he has self interest in that.

Certainly there are civilian causalities and since I have family there it's a huge concern.

There is no  legitimate excuse for invading Ukraine.

[Chelseaboy]

Yeah it sounds to reason that they would have lost similar to the Russians. The other figures I think we're just for civilians though that figure may have not been all that certain or a daily figure.

The general idea I get is that the two sides seem fairly evenly matched with the cities giving the Ukrainians a good defensive position. Apparently the main bulk of Russia's Army hadn't reached Kyiv yet so they are kind off making pretty slow progress.

If the Russian economy starts to do real bad then that is what might end this war for the Russians, eventually.

I think you misread what i posted Trench.


It was Russian losses the Ukrainian President spoke about.

[Jumper1]

Interesting. Unless the Ruskies missed an airfield or two, one has to wonder where will they land these planes, fuel and take-off again? I'm certain the Ruskies have satellites too to see these (airfields) from space? Of course, if they fly from and back again in Poland to refuel/re-arm, then technically Poland had joined the war, no?

They dint miss ahh major ones.
That said they did not detroy or completely incapacitate  the ones they hit .


Oddly with the overwhelmingly amount of air power they have , it hasnt really been used.

[Trenchcoat]

I think you misread what i posted Trench.


It was Russian losses the Ukrainian President spoke about.

Ah yeah just looked up. That's the interesting thing that Ukraine won't state the number of soldiers they have lost. They seem to know how many Russia has lost but not their own side, curious? While I'm sympathetic towards Ukraine's struggle I'm not sure they are being transparent with us as they should be in what they put out. In particular I am wary of Zelensky and his attempts to try and get the EU/NATO into this. Today he was videoed putting in an application to join the EU, that's something that would not be right to happen I believe.

Aside from trying to drag in Europe into a world war as we know the EU tends to have its own version of stifling a country of independence and self governance.

My guess as a military genius suggests that Ukraine is likely blowing just as many men as Russia, roughly almost a thousand a day. Some reports out today suggest that Putin may be willing to lose 50,000 Russian troops by sticking with surgical strikes rather than pins Ukraine with missiles. That suggests to me that he doesn't wish to have a chapter in the history books on how he butchered Ukrainian civilians en-masse. Russian troop losses are easier to explain as that which comes with war. Civilians losing many loved ones will of course be ingrained on minds for much longer and that would make future Russian/Ukrainian relations very difficult indeed.

[Faux Pas]

They dint miss ahh major ones.
That said they did not detroy or completely incapacitate  the ones they hit .


Oddly with the overwhelmingly amount of air power they have , it hasnt really been used.

Hardly at all. It doesn't look at all like an invasion even when watching the news. The trains are still running on time. With Russia's firepower in an invasion, one would expect communications, roads, bridges, trains and utilities to be the first thing to go. Not the case here yet, we're still not getting much truth in news but we've come to expect that.

[Boethius]

My SIL has been sitting either in the bathroom of her apartment (no outside walls) or in a shelter since Friday.  Why?  Because bombs have been falling continuously. She hears continuous shooting.  She lives near a municipal airport.  Also about 1 km from a rail station that supplies the city with goods, and where things are loaded for distribution.  She has listened to children crying for days.  She learned a family she knows was gunned down by Russian soldiers on the road to an escape.  Internet is intermittent, as we've learned in trying to communicate with her.

Today, she told hubby that Kyiv is encircled by fire. 

My husband's cousin took her children and very young grandchildren to her husband's village, where they have a dacha (the home he grew up in).  They were worried for the safety of the children.

I guess I should tell both of them that someone on the internet says there is no invasion, and that it's all a fantasy in their heads.

[GQBlues]

They dint miss ahh major ones.
That said they did not detroy or completely incapacitate  the ones they hit .

Oddly with the overwhelmingly amount of air power they have , it hasnt really been used.

I agree. Which I would go back to what the guy upthread said. This invasion wasn't planned for total annihilation of Ukraine e.g USA-style, but rather to replace the political body, good or bad - just or unjustly; that would ultimately be more pro-Russian.

[Faux Pas]

I guess I should tell both of them that someone on the internet says there is no invasion, and that it's all a fantasy in their heads.

I didn't say there was no invasion. What do I know, I'm not there? You should tell them to make sure they're jabbed, triple mask and social distance at the dacha.

[ML]

Wife talked to a friend in Ukraine today.
This woman had received a phone call from an in-law of hers who lives in SPb, Russia.
The woman in Russia said: 
Don't worry, soon Putin will take you over and then everything will be OK.
The Ukrainian woman immediately ended the phone call and blocked the woman from ever calling her again.

[Boethius]

I didn't say there was no invasion. What do I know, I'm not there? You should tell them to make sure they're jabbed, triple mask and social distance at the dacha.

The adults are vaccinated. 


I am telling you what's going on, yet you blame the "West" for a brutal invasion of a sovereign nation.  People are dying needlessly, and no, the West didn't orchestrate this invasion.

[Faux Pas]

The adults are vaccinated. 


I am telling you what's going on, yet you blame the "West" for a brutal invasion of a sovereign nation.  People are dying needlessly, and no, the West didn't orchestrate this invasion.

Really? Where exactly did I state that?

[Trenchcoat]

There unfortunately seems to be a dangerous momentum for approving Ukraine for EU Membership:

http://inews.co.uk/news/world/ukraine-eu-will-join-membership-european-union-what-happened-why-hasnt-joined-explained-1489006

Whether that will happen during the invasion or after a Ukrainian victory who knows. Of course if Russia wins Ukraine won't be joining the EU, the only upside perhaps. Today Zelensky put in an application to formally apply to join the EU but no referendum of its citizens had taken place to ask them if they wish to join the EU? Democratic? Automatically out the window by the looks of it from the get go.

If Ukraine joined the EU will the, 'If one is attacked we are all attacked' be the case thereby committing all member states to the fight against Russia?

That of course could have a knock on effect to NATO members who are not part of the EU like the UK & US. If the Eastern Bloc EU member states get dragged into war that way then as NATO members we might be too. That I don't believe is a just system to drag us into war by trickery.

I think more questions and scrutiny needs to be made of Zelensky's efforts to get Ukraine admitted to the EU. After all until recent Ukraine was not in a decent enough economic position to join the EU and reforms to counter corruption and other reforms had not been extensive enough. Yet here all of a sudden none of that matters that was supposed to even when their economy is likely much worse than it was a couple of years or so ago. Even if they join the EU one way or another I can see no good coming of it. I'm certainly glad we left.

I think this is potentially a very real danger of causing a world war which we should all be trying to avoid.

Just read this article:

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/ukraine-join-eu-parliament-war-b2025174.html

Apparently it is just candidate status that is awarded first and it's a process that can take many years (typical EU) so with a bit of luck it won't be rammed through quickly. So just have to hope the same holds true and we won't be fast tracked to WWIII.

[BillyB]

Alright, a couple more posts. One here and one on vaccines later on to let you know what it's doing to your body. Your western leaders of the new world order are no angels I tell ya. First funding the creation of the virus and releasing it and now forcing something into your body that doesn't work and will shorten your life span.


My MIL is in Ukraine to answer GQ's question.


It doesn't matter what I think if your neighbor is manufacturing experimental drugs. I could claim your neighbor is making the drugs in a safe responsible manner and for a good reason but you have the right to call the cops to shut it down. Russia has no cops to call so they have the right to police the creation of super viruses and bacteria next door. Some call it gain of function research and others call it weapons of mass destruction. There is no conspiracy. Its a fact Ukraine has numerous biolabs funded by the West including by civilians such as Soros involved in creating the worlds worst pathogens under the disguise of finding better medicine. Ask yourself why America and Europe doesn't build these labs at home but instead build it in a country where corruption is rampant, security is loose, and it would enrage one of the most powerful nations on earth. They aren't stupid. They put Ukraine in danger of war on purpose. They have used Ukraine like a cheap hooker. Biolabs isn't the sole reason Russia is invading but it's just one of many Deep State projects that Russia wants to shut down.


As Ukraine signs for EU membership during an invasion further enraging Russia, Belarus has a referendum approving themselves to be a nuclear state which allows them to receive Russian nukes. Nations are starting to form alliances like they did before WWI and WWII. Don't you guy see what is happening? Our Western leaders every move moves us closer to world war.


http://www.defensenews.com/global/europe/2022/02/28/eu-decries-potential-russian-nuclear-weapons-deployment-after-belarus-referendum/

Besides claiming to fight for Ukraine, the Ukrainian prime minister said they're also fighting on behalf of the New World Order. That should enrage Putin. Putin once said the New World Order worships Satan. Putin is right about that. Their releasing of a bioweapon and experimental vaccines on the world is proof.

http://t.me/behizy/2696

You guys know there's been constant war around the world for the last 20 years but we only get mad when they tell us to get mad? Don't let them manipulate you into supporting escalating aggression that could turn into world war where hundreds of millions will die, borders change, and the resetting of economies will happen. If you end up surviving, you may not like the results.

[fathertime]

As Ukraine signs for EU membership during an invasion further enraging Russia, Belarus has a referendum approving themselves to be a nuclear state which allows them to receive Russian nukes. Nations are starting to form alliances like they did before WWI and WWII. Don't you guy see what is happening? Our Western leaders every move moves us closer to world war.

I recall making this point several years ago here regarding Russia giving their Nukes to their friends.   The forum know it alls poopoo'ed the thought of it.   It's much closer to reality now.  Syria gets bombed from time to time by Israel (US supports this), give them a few nukes too, and the bombing stops. 
I see the West as trying very hard to provoke war, a war that will only produce losers.  The people in South America, Africa, India, and around the globe don't need to pay consequences of a war with nuclear weapons.  Not to mention regular people in the nations involved.   

You guys know there's been constant war around the world for the last 20 years but we only get mad when they tell us to get mad? Don't let them manipulate you into supporting escalating aggression that could turn into world war where hundreds of millions will die, borders change, and the resetting of economies will happen. If you end up surviving, you may not like the results.[/size]

I was listening to talk radio on the way home today.  Commentator said that the US and Europe have confiscated trillions in Russian money.   Once this battle is over, and the West tries to hold it, Russia will seemingly have little way to get their money returned....seemingly.   How much is Hawaii worth.   Drop a nuclear bomb beneath the ocean creating a tsunami wiping out all the people and islands...and they call it even, everybody loses, especially a few million people on the islands.    The few cards Russia has to play are related to nuclear weaponry, and I think Putin would use those weapons if backed into a corner.  Biden like a bellicose baboon flinging feces, seems to be intentionally trying to back Putin in that corner covered with feces and a dunce cap.   Russia is about to level Ukraine, and the US is talking about sending more weaponry.  There will be nobody left to operate the weaponry, there will be no buildings to run for cover in.   I hope what I say is incorrect, but it seems to me the polite and finesse takeover hasn't worked according to plan....I hope most all the civilians find a way out asap.

Fathertime! 

[tfcrew]

  Commentator said that the US and Europe have confiscated trillions in Russian money.   

How would they know that?

[fathertime]

How would they know that?

You are probably correct, it was talk radio and he may have just pulled that number from his ass.   He did reiterate the trillions figure.   I also question the number, but perhaps it is possible.  It seems billions would be more accurate though. 

Fathertime! 

[tfcrew]

If the Russians were called to withdraw to the borders quickly...It may mean that a chemical attack is next on the agenda.
 Probably not enough gas masks to go around.

[Boethius]

Really? Where exactly did I state that?

From elsewhere -

All of the West together" of course they were the same ones pounding the drums of war before the conflict.

[Faux Pas]

yet you blame the "West" for a brutal invasion of a sovereign nation.
From elsewhere -
All of the West together" of course they were the same ones pounding the drums of war before the conflict.

Swing and a miss! Would you like to try again? And please, stay on topic this time

[BC]

why swing and miss?  I also read your post elsewhere.

[GQBlues]

At the current condition Ukraine finds itself in, I fail to see the point of the whole drama the EU made about accepting Ukraine’s application to join the Union. I thought one of the fundamental requirement for admittance was a country must first proved its void of government corruption, and prior to the invasion, it was deemed Ukraine wasn’t quite there yet?

Now if this was for show, and rather ‘accepting’ an application was a symbol of some silly unity theatrics, wouldn’t this just became a stupid act of stoking the fire at a very bad time for Ukraine/Zelensky?

Not all good intentions yield desired result. Sometimes it only results to a very bad decision. Methinks someone just inked someone’s death certificate here.