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2tallbill:
Russia made proposals that would be required to be met if the Ukraine border
tension was to be reduced.

In the proposals Russia sets out a series of requirements, which require countries that
joined Nato after the fall of the Soviet Union not to deploy troops or weapons in areas
where they could be seen as a threat to Russia. Heavy bombers and warships would
not be allowed in areas outside their national airspace or waters from which they
could launch an attack

That would mean Nato not playing any role at all in any of the three Baltic republics
or Poland. Of course that means no joint exercises or anything stronger than border
police. The Baltics are so small that any troops of any kind would necessitate a threat.

Here is a summary of the proposal
http://mid.ru/ru/foreign_policy/rso/nato/1790818/?lang=en

Trenchcoat:

--- Quote from: 2tallbill on December 18, 2021, 02:04:25 PM ---Russia made proposals that would be required to be met if the Ukraine border
tension was to be reduced.

In the proposals Russia sets out a series of requirements, which require countries that
joined Nato after the fall of the Soviet Union not to deploy troops or weapons in areas
where they could be seen as a threat to Russia. Heavy bombers and warships would
not be allowed in areas outside their national airspace or waters from which they
could launch an attack

That would mean Nato not playing any role at all in any of the three Baltic republics
or Poland. Of course that means no joint exercises or anything stronger than border
police. The Baltics are so small that any troops of any kind would necessitate a threat.

Here is a summary of the proposal
http://mid.ru/ru/foreign_policy/rso/nato/1790818/?lang=en

--- End quote ---

So long as Russia/Ukrainian separatists agree to return the Donbass area to Ukraine and cease involvement/hostilities of course on decent terms and Ukraine gets back the bulk of Crimea possibly minus the port city Russia needs then it sounds like it could be a workable proposal to me.

Having troops stationed to close to a potential hostile country isn't always a good idea as we saw at the outbreak of WWII. It gives virtually no time to counter enemy attack. They can be on you and wipe you out before you know it. Such a scenario could leave the rest of Europe largely defenseless. Most of those countries have their own army to potentially slow Russia down thereby giving NATO troops in Germany and elsewhere time to respond and move in. So long as Russia gives assurances that it will stand down its troops at present and likewise refrain from spooking those East European countries along its border by any future aggressive mass build up of troops then it could be a realistic solution.

Let's face it a lot of this present situation all came about since 2014 because Russia feared the Ukraine was going to go over to what it perceives as a potential hostile alliance. To me this sounds like a way of reversing that issue somewhat without handing Ukraine back to Russian influence but for Ukraine to be neutral. The EU already has their agreements with Ukraine and Ukraine will be too much for it to take on as a member. NATO meanwhile doesn't need to be in Ukraine nice entangled in any conflict with Russia. Seeking a deal along the lines they propose might end up shifting Russia's concerns more to its Chinese border in the future for all we know and concerns over China like we do.

I think the only area of caution here is to make sure it's done in an orderly fashion so Russia doesn't try and move into all of Eastern Europe. I don't think they have this in mind but just in case it would make sense for them to stand down first.

Chelseaboy:
Putin has got some front.


What about the Russian heavy bombers that regularly fly outside Russian airspace and adjacent to UK airspace ?


Trench..you're not the re-incarnation of Chamberlain are you ? :)


History tells us you give bullies an inch they'll take a yard.

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