Japtats Trip report 2

[2tallbill]

Brad Pitt & George Clooney are facially pretty boys so they win on that card so don't need to be real worked out. Even still there is a difference between slenderer and slim. I think guys that are too slim get seen as weak, possibly geeky and a bit unattractive to most women, course there are always the outliers

Women are all different. Different women are attracted to different things.
Almost all women are attracted to confidence. Almost all women are repelled
by desperation.

I have seen men with very mediocre looks with very hot women because
they had confidence and acted on it. Joe Blow average guy will beat out
Brad Pitt keyboard Romeo if he shows up and wins her heart.

[japtats]

It is funny people talk so much about what women want , finding outliers to support their theories. Then there are others who just look at a correlation, don't ask the cost , and just take what they want .

I mean it is hard to work on your income , it is hard to lift weight , it is hard to sacrifice. It is easy to come up with excuses to support a theory.

I stopped asking what women wanted long ago , I just do what is hard , because when you do what is hard you find not many men are there. They are fighting for the scraps , whilst waiting for old age to take them to the grave , telling stories of what they did at 18.

[Boethius]

It is neither "hard to work on your income", nor to "lift weights".  Tens of millions of people do these things successfully every single day.  Neither is a guarantee of success in relationships.

[japtats]

It is neither "hard to work on your income", nor to "lift weights".  Tens of millions of people do these things successfully every single day.  .

Tens of millions? Let us just say 100 million , out of 6 bullion is under 2%. I am happy being in top 2% if going by your figures.

Regarding relationships, it is not my focus as of yet .

[Boethius]

I was referring only to my country.  I would hazard a guess if you are looking for a world statistic, the number would be in the billions, particularly in undeveloped countries, where "weight lifting" is part of their work, rather than a leisure activity.  Point is, it's nothing special.

[japtats]

I was referring only to my country.  I would hazard a guess if you are looking for a world statistic, the number would be in the billions, particularly in undeveloped countries, where "weight lifting" is part of their work, rather than a leisure activity.  Point is, it's nothing special.

Building work is different from weightlifting, secondly having a career where someone makes a good living is hard whilst maintaining weightlifting.

[Boethius]

But, literally, millions of people manage to do so.  It requires discipline, but it's not particularly difficult or special.

[japtats]

But, literally, millions of people manage to do so.  It requires discipline, but it's not particularly difficult or special.

We ran your numbers, and i was generous, still works out to be less than 2% apparently. I am happy with that, not looking to be Elon Musk, or Arnold, but hey, if i can be a mixture of them but a lower level in what they accomplished in their fields, i would be over the moon. I am happy where i am at, see as far as i can go, and live in peace. You haven't seen my life to know if it is difficult or not, whereas my clients, people i dated, family have, and they can vouch the effort i put in is immense. All i ask myself is if i tried my best, the answer is yes, and for me that is content, knowing i gave it my all.

Edit , I regret taking a dig

[Shadow]

We ran your numbers, and i was generous, still works out to be less than 2% apparently. I am happy with that, not looking to be Elon Musk, or Arnold, but hey, if i can be a mixture of them but a lower level in what they accomplished in their fields, i would be over the moon. I am happy where i am at, see as far as i can go, and live in peace. You haven't seen my life to know if it is difficult or not, whereas my clients, people i dated, family have, and they can vouch the effort i put in is immense. All i ask myself is if i tried my best, the answer is yes, and for me that is content, knowing i gave it my all.

Edit , I regret taking a dig

If you wish to be a muscled con-man you seem to be on the right track.
However i you like tings that are hard, I suggest working on a relationship. Probably that is too hard for you.

[japtats]

However i you like tings that are hard, I suggest working on a relationship.

I need to work on myself, there isn't anything wrong with the girl i am dating. I can't find what is wrong with her. She works hard in fitness, caring for me, on the business, smart, and can take my humour.

Probably that is too hard for you.

It is a different difficulty, the majority of men marry because they are not getting action, emotionally (Whores lack this) and physically. I get both, so the question i need to ask, is why? Why should i marry and settle down? What do i get? Someone who believes in me? I believe in myself, someone to care for me and push me forward? Is that really enough to justify it?

Beauty? I now get women easily in the 18 to 21 bracket, but relationship wise 25ish is the sweet spot , who are young and pretty. When I am older my options will increase, so it is a bad investment.

It is a question i am trying to ask myself and solve. I did ask Gator , because unlike most men, when he decided to take theat leap, he had an active lifestyle, was an accomplished male. So i guess for me, the answer to my question will be maybe answered by conversating more with such people, and less with people who marry out of desperation.

[Shadow]

I need to work on myself, there isn't anything wrong with the girl i am dating. I can't find what is wrong with her. She works hard in fitness, caring for me, on the business, smart, and can take my humour.

It is a different difficulty, the majority of men marry because they are not getting action, emotionally (Whores lack this) and physically. I get both, so the question i need to ask, is why? Why should i marry and settle down? What do i get? Someone who believes in me? I believe in myself, someone to care for me and push me forward? Is that really enough to justify it?

Beauty? I now get women easily in the 18 to 21 bracket, but relationship wise 25ish is the sweet spot , who are young and pretty. When I am older my options will increase, so it is a bad investment.

It is a question i am trying to ask myself and solve. I did ask Gator , because unlike most men, when he decided to take theat leap, he had an active lifestyle, was an accomplished male. So i guess for me, the answer to my question will be maybe answered by conversating more with such people, and less with people who marry out of desperation.

Why would you marry out of desperation? And what is there to settle down about marriage? I do not understand either idea. You believe that when you will no longer be attractive to women you will just tkae the last one that still wants you and marry her? Does not sound like anything a settled and confident man will do, including Gator.

[japtats]

I do not understand either idea.

Very simple, a lot of men do not get action. Incels, they marry a girl because they need to. For me i think marriage is good for when someone is ready to settle down , have a family and such. but that is just me. I remember talking to my ex fiance's mother recently, she told me her son (Russian), decided to marry his wife because he said 'i want someone in my corner when life gets tough'. I told her, it sounds like he doesn't believe in his own strength, sad thin is he is now in depression, with kids, because of conflicts with his wife and laziness, irony right? I met a homeless guy in ukraine, talking to him how he ended up where he was, came down to his ex wife taking the house from him. I think people seek strength in others , rather than themselves. But i cannot blame people, majority of people are weak.

Some people chase happiness , to just go in the opposite direction. I value a peaceful life , a life of meaning where I help others. I am thankful I am not in a dark place, taking anti depressants like many people have . I want to sustain a peaceful life, not go through the pain many others have. This is complex because not everyone can walk down the path I do , nor think before blindly jumping into something they are not sure they even want . Sometimes people just do the things , not asking the question if they truly want it .

[Shadow]

Very simple, a lot of men do not get action. Incels, they marry a girl because they need to. For me i think marriage is good for when someone is ready to settle down , have a family and such. but that is just me. I remember talking to my ex fiance's mother recently, she told me her son (Russian), decided to marry his wife because he said 'i want someone in my corner when life gets tough'. I told her, it sounds like he doesn't believe in his own strength, sad thin is he is now in depression, with kids, because of conflicts with his wife and laziness, irony right? I met a homeless guy in ukraine, talking to him how he ended up where he was, came down to his ex wife taking the house from him. I think people seek strength in others , rather than themselves. But i cannot blame people, majority of people are weak.

Some people chase happiness , to just go in the opposite direction. I value a peaceful life , a life of meaning where I help others. I am thankful I am not in a dark place, taking anti depressants like many people have . I want to sustain a peaceful life, not go through the pain many others have. This is complex because not everyone can walk down the path I do , nor think before blindly jumping into something they are not sure they even want . Sometimes people just do the things , not asking the question if they truly want it .

You seem to project your ideas on others. My question was to you. What stops you from marriage Afraid you will not get any "action" afterwards? Not wanting to have kids as you feel yourself a bad eample with your peaceful life of lifting weights?
The examples you give show your fear.

[japtats]

You seem to project your ideas on others.

I just analyse others, and avoid their mistakes. It is better to learn from other people's mistakes, rather than make those yourself.

What stops you from marriage Afraid you will not get any "action" afterwards?

No, never did i say that . The thing that stops me is that i cannot see many benefits, other than creating a family.

Not wanting to have kids as you feel yourself a bad eample with your peaceful life of lifting weights?

When did i say i did not want kids? I think you might be really confused, or purposefully twisting words

The examples you give show your fear.

Jumping off a building, to show you are not scared, it plain stupid. Looking in the mirror and asking yourself why you are going to do what you do, and not choosing the easy option to avoid work, is the more brave option. But hey, you do you , like i said before, this is my life, and what fits with what i want, and how my life is structured. I am not a guy who looked like he got hit by a truck, out of shape, with their only achievement in life is working a 9 to 5 earning a sub average salary. No offence to the guys that are walking down that path.

[Shadow]

I just analyse others, and avoid their mistakes. It is better to learn from other people's mistakes, rather than make those yourself.

No, never did i say that . The thing that stops me is that i cannot see many benefits, other than creating a family.


When did i say i did not want kids? I think you might be really confused, or purposefully twisting words

Jumping off a building, to show you are not scared, it plain stupid. Looking in the mirror and asking yourself why you are going to do what you do, and not choosing the easy option to avoid work, is the more brave option. But hey, you do you , like i said before, this is my life, and what fits with what i want, and how my life is structured. I am not a guy who looked like he got hit by a truck, out of shape, with their only achievement in life is working a 9 to 5 earning a sub average salary. No offence to the guys that are walking down that path.

And you fear to become that, which is why you avoid what others do.
Perhaps you should know that I come from a country where building a family and having kids does not require marriage, all you need is commitment from both sides on a relationship.And I have witnessed many of such relationships fall apart because long after having kids they decide to marry and somehow think that needs to change their relationship.You seem similar, you want to be different and have things your way, expecting that when you marry you will become a different person. You will not. You will be the same man with the same desires. Be sure to have that figured out before going there.

[japtats]

And you fear to become that, which is why you avoid what others do.
Perhaps you should know that I come from a country where building a family and having kids does not require marriage, all you need is commitment from both sides on a relationship.And I have witnessed many of such relationships fall apart because long after having kids they decide to marry and somehow think that needs to change their relationship.You seem similar, you want to be different and have things your way, expecting that when you marry you will become a different person. You will not. You will be the same man with the same desires. Be sure to have that figured out before going there.

Far off, i like the control i have over my life, and don't want to give my freedom to someone else to toy with. I spoke to my gf today regarding why some men marry, about the Russian who married as he wanted someone in his corner, she and i both agree, he got married for the wrong reasons. It should be about building a life/family with someone , not someone to hold your hand when you get pucnhed. That is why he failed and is depressed, he expected her to be an axe warrior, when she isn't, she has no interest to work, and is lazy, but he expected something she didn't deliver, and now he is depressed on meds.

Regarding men marrying due to desperation, she laughed and said yes. A lot of men, especially on here probably nearly everyone, marry a woman to get a prettier girl than they would get in the West, who will tolerate them, and get constant sex from the person.

For me i am in an unique situation,i figured out how to conduct my life, so that as i age, my options actually get better. It is a formulae, not many men can do.

[rwd123]

And you fear to become that, which is why you avoid what others do.
Perhaps you should know that I come from a country where building a family and having kids does not require marriage, all you need is commitment from both sides on a relationship.

You are projecting your values. Not everybody thinks or acts the same way.

I know guys who have no interest in marriage or family and simply happy to pursue women. Different strokes for different folks.

JT's relative immaturity in relationships is not cause to invalidate his perspectives. I sense a tone of moral judgment against him rather than considered advice. He may be naive in some respects but that is part and parcel with gaining life experience.

[Shadow]

JT's relative immaturity in relationships is not cause to invalidate his perspectives. I sense a tone of moral judgment against him rather than considered advice. He may be naive in some respects but that is part and parcel with gaining life experience.

I agree, however I hope his experience will not come at high cost that he could have avoided.

[2tallbill]

You are projecting your values. Not everybody thinks or acts the same way.

I know guys who have no interest in marriage or family and simply happy to pursue women. Different strokes for different folks.

JT's relative immaturity in relationships is not cause to invalidate his perspectives. I sense a tone of moral judgment against him rather than considered advice. He may be naive in some respects but that is part and parcel with gaining life experience.

They didn't have travel blogs or even the internet when I was young.
Luckily I didn't record what I was doing and/or the purpose behind 
my actions when I was in my twenties. People would have rightly
pointed out my many foibles.

I also didn't tell my elders what they were doing or claim to know
their motivations behind their actions either. Back in the full analog
days doing so might have caused me to get punched in the mouth.
It's sort of a shame that nobody gets punched in the nose anymore
when they overstep the bounds of polite behavior.

My theory as it relates to the forum is this. I try not to get too involved
in an individuals trip report or blog. I know that they are difficult to write
and keep updated especially when your every move is scrutinized.

On the other non TR threads, I tend to dispense more advice and
participate more in the debates.  That's my two kopecks

Udachi!

Bill

[Boethius]

We ran your numbers, and i was generous, still works out to be less than 2% apparently. I am happy with that, not looking to be Elon Musk, or Arnold, but hey, if i can be a mixture of them but a lower level in what they accomplished in their fields, i would be over the moon. I am happy where i am at, see as far as i can go, and live in peace. You haven't seen my life to know if it is difficult or not, whereas my clients, people i dated, family have, and they can vouch the effort i put in is immense. All i ask myself is if i tried my best, the answer is yes, and for me that is content, knowing i gave it my all.

Edit , I regret taking a dig

My "numbers" were for my country, not the entire world.  In my country, 20% of the adult population is physically active.  Not all of them go to the gym, but all get a significant amount of exercise.  So, that's 10 times higher than your "2%".

I never claimed your life is difficult.  You are the one who has stated that people don't work out, because it's so difficult.  All I did was state your assertion is flawed.


As for what I value, you have no idea what I value, and what I don't.  Your assumptions about me are extremely flawed.  You are also wrong in assuming I am not a risk taker. 

[GQBlues]

You are projecting your values. Not everybody thinks or acts the same way.

I know guys who have no interest in marriage or family and simply happy to pursue women. Different strokes for different folks.

JT's relative immaturity in relationships is not cause to invalidate his perspectives. I sense a tone of moral judgment against him rather than considered advice. He may be naive in some respects but that is part and parcel with gaining life experience.

Totally concur.

His life's saga and underlying belief/perspectives is exclusively his own. As long as he's happy with it, more power to him as he seem to be fulfilling his desires and belief.

His is just one of millions.

[japtats]

I hope his experience will not come at high cost that he could have avoided.

The cost is when someone marries, and has kids, it is too late to go back. That is why these questions should be asked , and an honest conversation should be had with oneself on why they are getting married. I can always find someone, as long as i keep on track, work on myself, there is always going to be options available. If i however, don't work on myself, these opportunities won't be around.

[Shadow]

The cost is when someone marries, and has kids, it is too late to go back. That is why these questions should be asked , and an honest conversation should be had with oneself on why they are getting married. I can always find someone, as long as i keep on track, work on myself, there is always going to be options available. If i however, don't work on myself, these opportunities won't be around.

I will remind you once again that marriage and kids will not magically change you or remove the need to work on yourself. Your personality and desire will not be changed by marrying, nor will having children hold you back.If you think that marriage will transform you from Arnold Schwarzenegger to Al Bundy, think again.I do agree you are not ready for marriage however.

[japtats]

marriage and kids will not magically change you or remove the need to work on yourself.

If you think that marriage will transform you from Arnold Schwarzenegger to Al Bundy, think again.

I see the misunderstanding, i never said that was the issue. My issue is giving someone control over my happiness. I don't feel in a lovey dubby need in my life. Cuddle and such i am good at, but i do not feel the need for someone permanent in my life, nor their support.

I do agree you are not ready for marriage however.

Who knows if i will ever want marriage, kids i want. My current girlfriend and a few previous would have a child with me, even outside wed lock. But i want a child i bring into the world to have me present as a father figure. Not to simply spread my genes.

[Trenchcoat]

It is neither "hard to work on your income", nor to "lift weights".  Tens of millions of people do these things successfully every single day.  Neither is a guarantee of success in relationships.

I think not many guys can afford to lift weights/work out the necessary 5 times a week to really look great. Many will do what I did and just go a couple of times a week for a while.

In general though I think most guys have to put work first. Few guys can afford to say stuff work to put the gym first they need to bring in at least a basic income as a fundamental aspect of life. I've often thought that those that do the gym regularly are participating in a luxury few can afford. Ok you'll get your nightclub doorman do it, professional bodybuilders, etc but in general you tend to need to be able to afford excess time off in your schedule to do it effectively. Few guys who do the 9-5 five days a week can do it successfully. In the evenings they will get too tired to do it and at weekends few will want to spend every weekend doing gym & exercise all day.

I used to know a guy at work, he was nearing retirement and didn't look in good shape. Anyway he showed me photos of when he was younger, now I'm not sh*ting you the guy literally had a bid like Arnold Schwarzenegger, great big bulging muscles everywhere and doing those bodybuilding poses. I asked him what happened, he replied, 'work happened'. Essentially once he got passed his late teen years he got to the stage where he had to get money in, it's a part of life so he could no longer spend all the time down the gym and with work goes the ability to work out as needed to maintain that form, that's how much time & energy constraints work places on most people.

Japs here is lucky, he gets income from his rental property, even if he didn't get income from his business he could get income from his rental property and go and work out. If he needed extra income he could just work part time and go and work out. When I finish my house conversion I will get income and could just go and work out.

Like I say few dudes can do that, many try but don't realise they are doomed to fail since they need regular periods of being able to go to the gym in a fully refreshed state. Some guys routine is even gym, sleep, gym, sleep, etc, etc.

My guess is that in Ukraine it is just as much probably more of a luxury to do the gym regularly for a guy than here. They will be mindful that all the time they are at the gym could be time they could be earning. In a country where money speaks and can be a necessity gym time is probably the first thing to be sacrificed. Some guys will be able to tie it into their lifestyle/work but most won't.

My guess is that in Ukraine having a gym bod may bring the additional benefit of showing a girl that you can 'afford' to take the time out in addition to looking great.

Myself I don't think builders often get the same results. I think again they lack the time element so overeat on energy foods which create fat and so get flabby stomach's etc. A few may manage it but often I just don't think it works out the same.