The Russian/Syrian connection thread

[fathertime]

I read an article that mentions Putin may be testing us. Evidence points to the Russian troops crossing the line to launch an attack on our positions. I believe this could be a possibility.

Yes, they could certainly retaliate. We may be heading into a full on proxy war with "merc" casualties.

why the hell do we have any position in syria...we are uninvited, and have invaded a sovereign country.   at some point we will be attacked from all sides...turkey, syria, russia, iran...we don't need to plant our flag there, nor should we.   It should be of no surprise that we are seen as grand hypocrites when we attempt to chastise other nations for the same sort of transgressions we are guilty of.

Fathertime!   

[jone]

why the hell do we have any position in syria...we are uninvited, and have invaded a sovereign country.   at some point we will be attacked from all sides...turkey, syria, russia, iran...we don't need to plant our flag there, nor should we.   It should be of no surprise that we are seen as grand hypocrites when we attempt to chastise other nations for the same sort of transgressions we are guilty of.

Fathertime!

We need to rename Fathertime Jeanette Rankin.

[fathertime]

We need to rename Fathertime Jeanette Rankin.

thats fine. So let's not whitewash that we (The US) are completely hypocritical when we chastise other nations when we are the greatest offender.

Fathertime!

[BillyB]

Russia's official position is that they didn't know Russian paramilitary contractors were fighting in Syria. Russia has some of the best intelligence agencies in the world yet they didn't know Russians contractors using Russian tanks were fighting in Syria? I think they did know and paid them to attack American interests.

they may accidentally kill a few dozen of our contractors next.

Death toll in the last battle was they lost a few hundred and we lost none. If they want to try to accidentally kill a few dozen of our troops, they may lose a few thousand trying. Putin may have wanted to test the abilities of the American military should he have to face them in Eastern Europe in the future. He got his answer. No need for further testing. Massive Russian casualties will hurt Putin's popularity among his people.

[fathertime]

Russia's official position is that they didn't know Russian paramilitary contractors were fighting in Syria. Russia has some of the best intelligence agencies in the world yet they didn't know Russians contractors using Russian tanks were fighting in Syria? I think they did know and paid them to attack American interests.

I'm not concerned about what Russia's official position is.  Our official position is ludicrous. 
I'm not sure what you mean by 'american interests', within the borders of a sovereign country like Syria would be.  As is practically always the case, we aren't there to actually help anybody, but ourselves. 

Death toll in the last battle was they lost a few hundred and we lost none. If they want to try to accidentally kill a few dozen of our troops, they may lose a few thousand trying. Putin may have wanted to test the abilities of the American military should he have to face them in Eastern Europe in the future. He got his answer. No need for further testing. Massive Russian casualties will hurt Putin's popularity among his people.

 
I'm pretty sure a country like Russia could suddenly pick off a group of Americans anytime it chooses to.  If make that be in their interests, then it will happen.  If we think we can strike (Even if unintentionally) with impunity, I think we are mistaken.  When/if it happens to an American group, we won't have very many shoulders to cry upon. 

Fathertime! 

[alex330]

Russian death toll has doubled and unit destroyed.


Yevgeny Shabayev, leader of a local chapter of a paramilitary Cossack organization who has ties to Russian military contractors, said he had visited acquaintances injured in Syria at the defense ministry’s Central Hospital in Khimki, on the outskirts of Moscow, on Wednesday.


He said the wounded men had told him that the two units of Russian contractors involved in the battle near Deir al-Zor numbered 550 men. Of those, there are now about 200 who are not either dead or wounded, the wounded men had told him



http://www.reuters.com/article/us-mideast-crisis-syria-russia-casualtie/russian-toll-in-syria-battle-was-300-killed-and-wounded-sources-idUSKCN1FZ2DZ

[Gator]

I'm not concerned about what Russia's official position is.  Our official position is ludicrous. 
I'm not sure what you mean by 'american interests', within the borders of a sovereign country like Syria would be.  As is practically always the case, we aren't there to actually help anybody, but ourselves. 
 

Just helping ourselves?  Silly boy!

We were in Syria to defeat ISIS.  To refresh your memory, ISIS was lopping off the heads of innocents and enslaving ethnic peoples in Syria and northern Iraq .  ISIS also was terrorizing Europe with planned attacks, and hitting us indirectly.   To strike a blow to ISIS ideology, someone had to take away their caliphate.  Russia had given the defeat of ISIS a low priority compared to defending Assad against rebel forces.   Europe was not doing much.   That leaves the US. 

So the US took the lead.  In defeating ISIS, Kurds did most of the dirty work.  Now that ISIS is mostly defeated, the sleaze Erdogan is attacking the Kurds. Evidently we are staying to help the Kurds and some Syrian rebel groups,   IMO the Kurds deserve a homeland, and I hope the US is helping these proud people achieve exactly that.  I gather we have armed them to their teeth but not the weapons to take on the Turks.

[fathertime]

Just helping ourselves?  Silly boy!

We were in Syria to defeat ISIS.  To refresh your memory, ISIS was lopping off the heads of innocents and enslaving ethnic peoples in Syria and northern Iraq .  ISIS also was terrorizing Europe with planned attacks, and hitting us indirectly.   To strike a blow to ISIS ideology, someone had to take away their caliphate.  Russia had given the defeat of ISIS a low priority compared to defending Assad against rebel forces.   Europe was not doing much.   That leaves the US. 

So the US took the lead.  In defeating ISIS, Kurds did most of the dirty work.  Now that ISIS is mostly defeated, the sleaze Erdogan is attacking the Kurds. Evidently we are staying to help the Kurds and some Syrian rebel groups,   IMO the Kurds deserve a homeland, and I hope the US is helping these proud people achieve exactly that.  I gather we have armed them to their teeth but not the weapons to take on the Turks.

I see you are taking the company line on this one.  It is silly to think it wasn't in part our own doing that ISIS even exists.  We have invaded Syria's sovereignty in an effort to thwart Russia as much as anything else.   We are not invited in Syria while Russia and others are.

It isn't up to us to force a carving up of Syria.  We don't even belong in the region, let alone trying to take the lead in perpetuating the war. 

Fathertime! 

[Gator]

We are not invited in Syria while Russia and others are. 

You are talking about the part of Syria controlled by Assad.   The part where Russia has made multi-billion dollar investment in a naval base for Russian navy plus airfields, etc.  Others?  You mean Hezbollah.  Iran.   Fine people saving the world. 


We certainly have been invited in some rebel controlled areas, plus Syrian homelands.

 

It isn't up to us to force a carving up of Syria.  We don't even belong in the region, let alone trying to take the lead in perpetuating the war. 

You are so myopic.  Do you not realize there is a Shia-Sunni war brewing, and the implications are so severe it needs to be prevented.

Where would the world and America be today if we had never ventured outside our borders?  The world speaks English because of American business.  Foe sure we sometimes have gone too far.  Yet, I assert our net overall effect is very positive for the past 100 years.  .

Are your thoughts about the Middle East based on having lived there?

[fathertime]

You are talking about the part of Syria controlled by Assad.   The part where Russia has made multi-billion dollar investment in a naval base for Russian navy plus airfields, etc.  Others?  You mean Hezbollah.  Iran.   Fine people saving the world. 


We certainly have been invited in some rebel controlled areas, plus Syrian homelands.

 

No.  How about you invite the North Korean army into your city? You don't have that authority.  Without question, the US hasn't NOT been invited into Syria.  Phony invites and excuses are not going to be accepted in this situation, and then not accepted in the next situation involving Russia, china, or any other country. 

 
You are so myopic.  Do you not realize there is a Shia-Sunni war brewing, and the implications are so severe it needs to be prevented.

 

A war huh. 
Sounds like a great big excuse to do whatever helps our own interests.  We are not there to 'save' people *unless it a people that can forward our interests*, so the excuse that we are fair-minded liberators is just preposterous.  You lack the ability to see reality, but it is entertaining to read the high handed, canned responses from individuals in the states. 

Fathertime!   

[msmob]

No.  How about you invite the North Korean army into your city? You don't have that authority.  Without question, the US hasn't NOT been invited into Syria.  Phony invites and excuses are not going to be accepted in this situation, and then not accepted in the next situation involving Russia, china, or any other country. 
A war huh. 
Sounds like a great big excuse to do whatever helps our own interests.  We are not there to 'save' people *unless it a people that can forward our interests*, so the excuse that we are fair-minded liberators is just preposterous.  You lack the ability to see reality, but it is entertaining to read the high handed, canned responses from individuals in the states. 

Fathertime!   

Aha, our 'expert' on the Levant strikes again ..

1/ Indeed, the Al-ASSad regime is the 'recognised govt' of Syria - but as the last Sec Gen pointed out - the 'elections' for President were hardly legit - bearing most of the nation's population was not under the 'firm hand' of the 'govt'

2/ The Russians and Chinese blocked a no fly zone resolution when Al-ASSad's air force was bombing demonstrators and 'we' stood back and let his happen, followed by the Kremlin trying a spot of Spanish Civil War like 'training' ..

FAR more people have been killed or maimed as a result of western inaction and the Kremlin and Iran propping up this dictatorial dynasty.

You - of course - ain't been there and haven't got a clue - but it doesn't stop you spouting your usual ( clueless) bollox ..   

I am ashamed of how the UK parliament didn't back Cameron in a vote to help Obama form a coalition to enforce the no fly zone

[fathertime]

Aha, our 'expert' on the Levant strikes again ..

1/ Indeed, the Al-ASSad regime is the 'recognised govt' of Syria - but as the last Sec Gen pointed out - the 'elections' for President were hardly legit - bearing most of the nation's population was not under the 'firm hand' of the 'govt'

2/ The Russians and Chinese blocked a no fly zone resolution when Al-ASSad's air force was bombing demonstrators and 'we' stood back and let his happen, followed by the Kremlin trying a spot of Spanish Civil War like 'training' ..

FAR more people have been killed or maimed as a result of western inaction and the Kremlin and Iran propping up this dictatorial dynasty.

You - of course - ain't been there and haven't got a clue - but it doesn't stop you spouting your usual ( clueless) bollox ..   

I am ashamed of how the UK parliament didn't back Cameron in a vote to help Obama form a coalition to enforce the no fly zone

I don't need to be an expert to know that several people are not experts, and that includes slap happy tourists, who want tot try to use their vacations as leverage in a discussion. 

I don't doubt any elections taking place recently aren't very good.  Given the condition the country is in, not much could be expected.  Regardless, they have had the continuity of elected leadership for decades.  It isn't up to us *The US* to now set up shop with our military in a sovereign country and attempt to make them abide by what we want.  If we had our way, by the time we are done, Syria will be another ineffective and permanent festering wound.  We need to leave, and let the country stabilize instead of continuing to perpetuate a resistance that continues to kill people daily.     

Fathertime!   

[msmob]

I don't need to be an expert to know

Once again - you post- proving you DON'T know ...!

that several people are not experts, and that includes slap happy tourists, who want tot try to use their vacations as leverage in a discussion. 

See what happens when you ASSume... ? I worked in these places ...   I spoke much better French than I do now... particularly useful in Lebanon and Egypt .. I could pop over to Syria or Lebanon in hours on a ferry and a day to Alexandra, from Cyprus

Regardless, they have had the continuity of elected leadership for decades.

Really ? That IS interesting ..And when did  they have Presidential elections under the Al-ASSad dynasty ?   

Yup - more FT proving he likes to post - but hasn't a scoobie-do what he's talking about ...it's a flippin dictatorship ...

  It isn't up to us *The US* to now set up shop with our military in a sovereign country and attempt to make them abide by what we want.  If we had our way, by the time we are done, Syria will be another ineffective and permanent festering wound.  We need to leave, and let the country stabilize instead of continuing to perpetuate a resistance that continues to kill people daily.     

The US/ UK didn't have an exit plan for Iraq - and it showed... but there ARE success stories.. as long as Turkey doesn't screw it up - the Kurds running a state, effectively - just over a 100 years after the French and Brits screwed 'em over after WW1 - we promised them a state and drew the lines on the map creating nations that ignored Kurdistan.

Libya - has fragmented on tribal lines.. but are things worse that under Gaddafi- if 'we' hadn't gone in? - I know there'd have been a massacre in Benghazi ( we saw what he was capable of in Misratha )

So, 'we' should stand by and do nothing when UN-elected dictators bomb  the crap out of folks protesting in the streets, from the air ?

The US policy of supporting Israel means it is active in the region - via proxy.



 

[jone]

I, as well, have lived in the Middle East.  Although a long time ago.  The thing that people don't understand is that many of these areas are one step removed from camel caravans.  In Syria, the land is much more feudal than, say, a European country.  Almost like city-states.  The area is carved up by various warlords and each has a say in governance. 

To say Assad rules Syria is a mis-direct.  But, then, that's just me, and my opinion.  I certainly defer to Fathertime who knows all and sees all and comments from his arm chair.

[fathertime]

I, as well, have lived in the Middle East.   

The usual Jone bs qualifier! haha.  How about this one?  I, for one, have lived in this galaxy.  Can I please be qualified to speak?  Oh pretty please! 

To say Assad rules Syria is a mis-direct.  But, then, that's just me, and my opinion.  I certainly defer to Fathertime who knows all and sees all and comments from his arm chair.

Damn right you can defer to me, although I didn't ask you to.    It is hilarious that the view I have is such a threat to you. 

Fathertime! 

[fathertime]

Once again - you post- proving you DON'T know ...!

I don't know you personal history, from what I've gathered here, there is some stuff in dispute about things you have stated about yourself, but I really don't pay close attention. 



Really ? That IS interesting ..And when did  they have Presidential elections under the Al-ASSad dynasty ?   

Yup - more FT proving he likes to post - but hasn't a scoobie-do what he's talking about ...it's a flippin dictatorship ...
[/quote]
No.  The last election was free and fair by the international delegation that helped oversee it.  Personally I believe them over western propaganda.  Just listen to all the 'patriots' here declaring how the media can't be trusted!  Suddenly they want to trust the media when it is something they want to believe. 

In general, I'm very suspicious of propaganda that leads our military into other parts of the world.  Many if not most other Americans feel the same way nowadays. 

Regarding what you think you know, and what you think others don't know.  After living here in the states for decades, I still often don't think I know what is really going on.  But I damn well wouldn't trust slanted partisans with phony smiley faces like Jone, and Gator to give me the scoop.  In Syria, I don't believe you really have any inside knowledge either.  There are many people that are well studied that think the US has no business being there, so I'm far from alone in that view. 

Fathertime! 

[jone]

The usual Jone bs qualifier! haha.  How about this one?  I, for one, have lived in this galaxy.  Can I please be qualified to speak?  Oh pretty please!  Damn right you can defer to me, although I didn't ask you to.    It is hilarious that the view I have is such a threat to you. 

Fathertime!

You aren't.  You're just too dumb to recognize sarcasm.

[fathertime]

You aren't.  You're just too dumb to recognize sarcasm.

You aren't qualified to characterize anybody.  You are too self-centered/self-important, to recognize what an individual would recognize. 

Fathertime! 

[msmob]

You aren't qualified to characterize anybody.  You are too self-centered/self-important, to recognize what an individual would recognize. 

That was 'it'? Your 'riposte' to being busted re your intimate [ NOT] knowledge of Syrian 'democracy' and your ASSumptions re my visits ? 

Fathertime : this board is the Russian Woman Discussion forum.

You don't know Russian or Russia or Russian women and you've never been to these places - and constantly prove it ... 

You DO like to argue and don't realise when you are just making an arse of yourself

Perhaps this is how you learn stuff ?

[fathertime]

That was 'it'? Your 'riposte' to being busted re your intimate [ NOT] knowledge of Syrian 'democracy' and your ASSumptions re my visits ? 

What you quoted and responded to wasn't directed to you. 

Fathertime : this board is the Russian Woman Discussion forum.

You don't know Russian or Russia or Russian women and you've never been to these places - and constantly prove it ... 

You DO like to argue and don't realise when you are just making an arse of yourself

Perhaps this is how you learn stuff ?

One of the many things I've learned is that you are not a reservoir of knowledge.  Just a tourist who also has an opinion, and in this case disagrees with the one I have.  I continue to hold that the USA doesn't belong in Syria, we have infringed upon a sovereign country and do not have a leg to stand on when we levy high-handed criticism upon other countries doing similar things. 

Fathertime! 

[msmob]

What you quoted and responded to wasn't directed to you. 

Sadly, for you - my post was aimed at you and your 'knowledge' of Syria..

One of the many things I've learned is that you are not a reservoir of knowledge.  Just a tourist who also has an opinion, and in this case disagrees with the one I have.  I continue to hold that the USA doesn't belong in Syria, we have infringed upon a sovereign country and do not have a leg to stand on when we levy high-handed criticism upon other countries doing similar things. 

Ah, so repeating a fib is your new tactic when busted ?

As I said, I worked in N.Africa / Middle East and there was a smaller element of tourism - involving sailing and seeing places on not work days..

I respect your opinion re the USA not being the world's policeman and note it makes you more akin to 'Trampu' policy than you'd like to admit ...I'm more adverse to allowing genocide.. be it the Balkans, middle east, Africa, or Myanmar

It is noted you ducked my point about the name of this board and what you bring to the table... I'm sure the kopek dropped...

If you are too daft to realise my reservoir of knowledge is better stocked on the board's title- and in this case the Levant - then you'll not be surprised at my noting that you argue for the the sake of it ..

Imagine I tipped up on a board discussing S./ Central American women - what with my 'fluent' Spanish / Portuguese and having travelled there lots [ not ] and trying to chew the fat  re ( say ) Columbia/ Venezuela politics..

I'd be the FT of that board... 

[fathertime]

Sadly, for you - my post was aimed at you and your 'knowledge' of Syria..

I feel fine about what I know about Syria, my focus is the US part in it which I don't feel fine about.  We have no business involving ourselves on the pretext we are there to help.

Ah, so repeating a fib is your new tactic when busted ?

As I said, I worked in N.Africa / Middle East and there was a smaller element of tourism - involving sailing and seeing places on not work days..

Again, I could tell you all sort of things/experiences but don't feel the need to.  What you say may or may not be accurate, and I really don't care very much.  You are no expert, and I don't think I need to act as if you, and your opinions are that important. I'll hear you out on them, but in this case I'm not seeing good enough reason for us to remain in Syria, especially under the phony ploy we are publicly stating.

I respect your opinion re the USA not being the world's policeman and note it makes you more akin to 'Trampu' policy than you'd like to admit ...I'm more adverse to allowing genocide.. be it the Balkans, middle east, Africa, or Myanmar

It is noted you ducked my point about the name of this board and what you bring to the table... I'm sure the kopek dropped...

If you are too daft to realise my reservoir of knowledge is better stocked on the board's title- and in this case the Levant - then you'll not be surprised at my noting that you argue for the the sake of it ..

Trump may wind up being better at keeping us out of other country's affairs, but I'm starting to doubt it.   Nobody is attempting to stop you from stating your opinion, I think it isnt' the right one to have, but so be it.  I think the US efforts from the start have been more about avarice than genuine help, and have led to plenty more deaths than was necessary. 

Imagine I tipped up on a board discussing S./ Central American women - what with my 'fluent' Spanish / Portuguese and having travelled there lots [ not ] and trying to chew the fat  re ( say ) Columbia/ Venezuela politics..

I'd be the FT of that board... 

I don't think your comparison holds any water.  I'm talking about US involvement, and I happen to be a member of the US.  Come to think of it, using your 'logic' why couldn't I say that YOU should butt out?   You are not a member of the US OR Syria.   

Fathertime! 

[msmob]

I feel fine about what I know about Syria

Yes, their history of elections was a masterpiece of in-depth knowledge...

, my focus is the US part in it which I don't feel fine about.  We have no business involving ourselves on the pretext we are there to help.

Except you ARE helping - you have stopped the Caliphate in the East of Syria from the Iraqi side..'You' just ( like my country) didn't have the balls to stop genocide, earlier - after the Iraq debacle

 

Again, I could tell you all sort of things/experiences but don't feel the need to. 

I suspect that would be your 'contact' with FSU folk on your own continent ... 

What you say may or may not be accurate, and I really don't care very much.  You are no expert, and I don't think I need to act as if you, and your opinions are that important. I'll hear you out on them, but in this case I'm not seeing good enough reason for us to remain in Syria, especially under the phony ploy we are publicly stating.

You should care - you are basing your 'opinion' on bollox data.
 

Trump may wind up being better at keeping us out of other country's affairs, but I'm starting to doubt it.   Nobody is attempting to stop you from stating your opinion, I think it isnt' the right one to have, but so be it.  I think the US efforts from the start have been more about avarice than genuine help, and have led to plenty more deaths than was necessary. 

It's hard to prove your bollox notion - but if you seriously think stopping Al-ASSad bombing 'his' people has been conducive to 'saving lives' - your perception filters may need some serious attention .

I don't think your comparison holds any water.  I'm talking about US involvement, and I happen to be a member of the US.  Come to think of it, using your 'logic' why couldn't I say that YOU should butt out?   You are not a member of the US OR Syria.   

It is noted you didn't counter my comparison with ANY valid riposte..   You ARE the guy on the RW board with b all to offer re RW or Russia and you know b all about Syria as demonstrated. 


'We' as in the UK - as already pointed out - tried to get a no-fly zone - and it failed at the UN - because of RU / Chinea and 'we' had vote in parliament about enforcing a no-fly zone to stop the bombing of civilians and it was defeated

Laterly,  'we' woke up and ARE involved in Syria - having been part of the campaign to eradicate the Caliphate dream of 'ISIS'  from the East ( Iraq) ..

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-34989302

Always pleased to help with your howlers




 

[fathertime]

Yes, their history of elections was a masterpiece of in-depth knowledge...

The simple explanation was it debunked your earlier falsehood.

Except you ARE helping - you have stopped the Caliphate in the East of Syria from the Iraqi side..'You' just ( like my country) didn't have the balls to stop genocide, earlier - after the Iraq debacle

 
I suspect that would be your 'contact' with FSU folk on your own continent ... 

You should care - you are basing your 'opinion' on bollox data.
 
It's hard to prove your bollox notion - but if you seriously think stopping Al-ASSad bombing 'his' people has been conducive to 'saving lives' - your perception filters may need some serious attention .

Laterly,  'we' woke up and ARE involved in Syria - having been part of the campaign to eradicate the Caliphate dream of 'ISIS'  from the East ( Iraq) ..

You do not have the expertise to teach anybody anything much.  Those with the expertise are divided on what should be done. 

It is noted you didn't counter my comparison with ANY valid riposte..   You ARE the guy on the RW board with b all to offer re RW or Russia and you know b all about Syria as demonstrated. 

Always pleased to help with your howlers

Lets examine what a hypocritical position you are taking.  According to you, I shouldn't comment on the US position on Syria, because according to you I haven't lived in Syria.      Since that is your position, my position is you shouldn't comment on US involvement because you don't live in the USA and have been merely a transitory tourist in Syria.    Seems fair enough to me!   

Fathertime! 

[msmob]

The simple explanation was it debunked your earlier falsehood.

Now FT is reduced to lying .. rather than fessing up to his daftness


WHO told us. " Regardless, they have had the continuity of elected leadership for decades."

http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/index.php?topic=20119.msg477329#msg477329

Quoting Wiki: "Presidential elections were held in Syria on 3 June 2014. It was the first multi-candidate election in decades since the Ba'ath party came to power in a coup (my words : in 1971...[ Forty-three years ] )

A Spokesperson for the United Nations Secretary General Ban Ki-moon warned that amid the ongoing Syrian Civil War and large-scale displacement of Syrian citizens, "such elections are incompatible with the letter and spirit of the Geneva communiqué"

SO, FT - what are you if not a huge fibber ?

You do not have the expertise to teach anybody anything much. 

Yet in our most recent exchanges ONLY I have quoted factual info..and done the debunking 

Lets examine what a hypocritical position you are taking.  According to you, I shouldn't comment on the US position on Syria, because according to you I haven't lived in Syria.      Since that is your position, my position is you shouldn't comment on US involvement because you don't live in the USA and have been merely a transitory tourist in Syria.    Seems fair enough to me!   

Three times repeating a lie ( transitory tourist ) suggests our FT has serious issues !

You are free to post here and I'm free to point out your nonsense.

MY analogy referred to your singular lack of knowledge re the board's ethos


You simply post  opinions on stuff who haven't got the first clue about and 'fight it out' with opponents who wipe the floor with you on most subjects. WHY?... because you post in some threads where your clear like of experience on the subject is laughably obvious