Name biggest lesson learned

[IAmZon]

In reading and studying past posts one can establish a picture of the opportunities and pitfalls of east west dating.

What might bring more clarity, however, is for those with the most experience to contribute a thought to what newbies are REALLY looking for:

If you knew THEN what you know NOW, what would you have done differently?

[Patrick]

I would have had a church wedding in Ukraine. I know that she missed having all of her friends and family see us get married. It would have been very nice to do that for them. Thanks for asking..

[Bruno]

If you knew THEN what you know NOW, what would you have done differently?

I have never married my first Russian wife !!!

[happiness]

If I knew then what I know now, I would have spent two or three trips being around her friends, family and co-workers in Russia before considering the finance visa.  Or I could have just listened to the good advice the interpreter gave me.

[Albert]

I would never have gone on any dates with women who needed an interpreter.  I only did that a couple of times and learned quick, but they were horrible experiences.

I would never have met ladies who seemed only slightly interested via e-mail messages.  This didn't happen too often, but a big waste of time.

I would never have met ladies who didn't seem to have a sense of humor.

I would never have met ladies who seemed a bit 'bossy' in their messages.

I would never have met with ladies who had children younger than teenagers.

I would never have met with ladies who looked just a little bit chubby in the face in their pictures (body not visable).  Chubby face equals chubby body.

I would never have met with ladies who did not have a university degree.  I only did this a couple of times, but they were the worst dates of my life.

I would never meet with native women in the Baltic countries.  They were very cold compared to the Russian women in those countries.

I would never go to Odesa, Ukraine again.  I had the worst experience with women there that I have had in any city from Tallin and St. Petersburg in north, to Yalta and Sevastopol in the south of FSU.

I would never rent an apartment in FSU during the summer months that did not have a working airconditioner, regardless of how cool the locals told me it would be.

[DKMM]

So Alberto, do you have a story to tell?  What happened in Odessa?

[av8or1]

I would have trusted my instinct more and had the courage to bail when that instinct told me it was time to exit stage left.  What grief I could have saved.  We've touched on in this in other threads, but I don't think it can be stated enough that if something doesn't seem right, it probably isn't and you shouldn't spend any time whatsoever trying to figure out the what, why or how of the situation.  And dear Lord please don't allow yourself to start making excuses for a RW's poor behavior by rationalizing to yourself (or with other guys) that such behavior occurred because of "different culture" or "different background" or "maybe there was a language issue."  The thought of making such a mistake as this makes me wanna spew.  Those who have made this venture into the wilds of an unknown such as international courtship have all been there, done that, got the shirt.  Trust us, the best course of action is to just move on.

Part and parcel with this general notion of poor behavior is the concept of expression of interest, also discussed elsewhere and also cannot be overstated.  Anything less than overt, clear, obvious interest in you means that she is NOT interested in you and that you need to end contact with her and find a woman who IS definitely interested.  I think my interpreter from Moscow (a married woman who lives in the USA with her husband and who I use for 3-way calling to the FSU) said it best when she described what she called "simple relations."  The basic idea being that meetings with women fall into two fundamental types: the first type occurs when the woman expresses a pronounced interest in you and the second type is anything less than that.  Your interest in the woman is assumed to be a given for the purposes of this discussion.  She called the first type "simple relations" (eg both people highly interested) and told me that I needed to use this as my criteria for deciding which RW to pursue after meeting several of them in person (she strongly disagrees with the WOVO idea, BTW).  So essentially, if you found "simple relations" after the first or second meeting (no more than two) then you should pursue that particular RW.  If not, don't.  Discontinuing contact with other RW is an absolute must once you do decide on a RW; you can't be wishy-washy or try to hedge your bets.  It was and is her contention that it is only these "simple relations" that will be strong enough to transcend the language, cultural, background, distance and time barriers that are such an obstacle in the path of success in an international courtship.  It was and is also her belief that RW use this same criteria ("simple relations") to decide whether or not they will become involved with a foreign man when there are so many local men who pursue them too.  That one made me stand and take notice!   Finally a RW telling me something that RW look for that actually makes sense and that I can understand. lol

My problem has been that I tend to get involved in relations that are other than "simple" and this is why my interpreter believes that I am still without a wife after several trips to the FSU.  I'm just glad that I haven't been unwise enough to allow any of these non-"simple relations" to get to the marriage stage, and a couple of them were definitely pushing for that with me.  What a disaster that could have been.

Anyway, hope that helps.

Best,

Jerry

[wiz]

I would have trusted my instinct more and had the courage to bail when that instinct told me it was time to exit stage left.  What grief I could have saved.  We've touched on in this in other threads, but I don't think it can be stated enough that if something doesn't seem right, it probably isn't and you shouldn't spend any time whatsoever trying to figure out the what, why or how of the situation.  And dear Lord please don't allow yourself to start making excuses for a RW's poor behavior by rationalizing to yourself (or with other guys) that such behavior occurred because of "different culture" or "different background" or "maybe there was a language issue."  The thought of making such a mistake as this makes me wanna spew.  Those who have made this venture into the wilds of an unknown such as international courtship have all been there, done that, got the shirt.  Trust us, the best course of action is to just move on.

Part and parcel with this general notion of poor behavior is the concept of expression of interest, also discussed elsewhere and also cannot be overstated.  Anything less than overt, clear, obvious interest in you means that she is NOT interested in you and that you need to end contact with her and find a woman who IS definitely interested.  I think my interpreter from Moscow (a married woman who lives in the USA with her husband and who I use for 3-way calling to the FSU) said it best when she described what she called "simple relations."  The basic idea being that meetings with women fall into two fundamental types: the first type occurs when the woman expresses a pronounced interest in you and the second type is anything less than that.  Your interest in the woman is assumed to be a given for the purposes of this discussion.  She called the first type "simple relations" (eg both people highly interested) and told me that I needed to use this as my criteria for deciding which RW to pursue after meeting several of them in person (she strongly disagrees with the WOVO idea, BTW).  So essentially, if you found "simple relations" after the first or second meeting (no more than two) then you should pursue that particular RW.  If not, don't.  Discontinuing contact with other RW is an absolute must once you do decide on a RW; you can't be wishy-washy or try to hedge your bets.  It was and is her contention that it is only these "simple relations" that will be strong enough to transcend the language, cultural, background, distance and time barriers that are such an obstacle in the path of success in an international courtship.  It was and is also her belief that RW use this same criteria ("simple relations") to decide whether or not they will become involved with a foreign man when there are so many local men who pursue them too.  That one made me stand and take notice!   Finally a RW telling me something that RW look for that actually makes sense and that I can understand. lol

My problem has been that I tend to get involved in relations that are other than "simple" and this is why my interpreter believes that I am still without a wife after several trips to the FSU.  I'm just glad that I haven't been unwise enough to allow any of these non-"simple relations" to get to the marriage stage, and a couple of them were definitely pushing for that with me.  What a disaster that could have been.

Anyway, hope that helps.

Best,

Jerry

Excellent Post

Well done Jerry

[Voyageur]

Having been married to a wonderful RW for over a year now, and - before that - having a failed K1 relationship with a UW, I have three  issues I would advise someone just considering seeking someone from the FSU:

1.  Make sure that the FSU woman you are in a relationship really, really cares about you.  The old saying, that if a FSU woman likes you, you will know it is true - you won't have to wonder about it. If you find yourself wondering about it, she is NOT into you!  If you don't love each other, all the cr*p t that you have to put up with - from outside your relationship (i.e. the ever-wonderful USCIS, the DVMs, the Social Security Administration, family, separation, etc.) will either drive you crazy and may drive you apart from each other.

2. Make sure that you have all of your ducks in a row before she arrives in your home country. Make sure that you are financially able to take care of her, that you have enough vacation time salted away, that any old obligations (family, business, etc.) are resolved because you owe it to her to have your situation in life as clean  as possible.

3. Make sure that you give her a complete understanding of your life as possible - what you expect (children, etc.) in your future family, your quality of life, life in your country. What you expect from her and what she can expect from you. 

If you handle these questions reasonably well and are honest with each other and - above all - love and respect each other, IMHO there is no reason that a relationship could not be a success.

[Son of Clyde]

My biggest lesson was thinking FSU was an impoverished country that every woman was standing in line to leave. Untrue.

I work for the fed's. I would have saved up a ton of annual leave and stayed in Ukraine longer. It helps to know the culture and to understand your lady and what she is leaving behind and to help her adjust to the life in the US.

Never assume because you think life in the FSU is primitive and everyone is starving, out of work alcoholics. This is not always the case. The economy is improving every day.

FSU is beautiful country and needs to be explored by you. The ladies may want the security of a country like the US that has an abundance of everything such as schools, real estate, shopping etc.

 She may have a false impression that life is extremely easy here. It is up to you to make her life as comfortable as possible and be able to explain to her why things are different and not always so easy.

These women will always love their country and may be seeking economic growth and security.

[Albert]

So Alberto, do you have a story to tell?  What happened in Odessa?

- - - - -

I will send you a private message.

[Albert]

 

The old saying, that if a FSU woman likes you, you will know it is true - you won't have to wonder about it. If you find yourself wondering about it, she is NOT into you! 

- - - - - - - -

I have seen this posted here often.  It has a ring of truth to it and it sounds like a nice thing to use as a quick screen.

However, I think women (and men) are a little more complicated than this.  There is the very important variable that people fall across a very wide spectrum with respect to how they show their true feelings.

Some women can be very spontaneous and you will quickly see how they feel about you.  Or they can just be very good actresses, in which case you won't really know nothing.  But you won't know you know nothing!!

Other women can be very reserved and even shy, and convey no hint of strong (good) feelings toward you, even though they may have an immediate attraction to you.

In short, if they treat you badly, this is a sign to take at face value.

If they quickly treat you good or are just very pleasant to you . . . . you really can't read too much into it (either positive or negative) . . . . for many days, weeks, months.

[Michelangelo]

I agree with Voyager on this point.

Thus, my biggest regret was spending a year with a UW who DID NOT have great passion for me.  Our beloved Anno told me this from the onset, but I was blind and hoped things would heat up.  In retrospect, I was a comfortable boy friend for her and a possibility as a husband.  She was playing me until someone better came along.

Guys, she has got to have passion for you!

[BC]

If you knew THEN what you know NOW, what would you have done differently?

I would have realized from the outset that this venture requires as much or more effort on the part of the man to adjust than the woman.

[Marc Dayton]

I think I would look at how she treats others. Not just how she treats me.

This might be how a clue to how she will treat you in 5 years?

[SANDRO43]

This might be how a clue to how she will treat you in 5 years?

Very good point, Marc, IMHO. In my personal experience, most of the corteous people I met were like that because of a smaller degree of personal selfishness, rather than a love for formality. That says a lot for continuing mutual consideration.

[Albert]

I think I would look at how she treats others. Not just how she treats me.

This might be how a clue to how she will treat you in 5 years?

- - - -  -

This is a very good point.  I am often somewhat disappointed with FSU women I have been with in that most seem to not be very aggressive toward bad waiters, etc., in FSU.  I kind of was hoping they would be more assertive.

But, a couple of times I have been with women who complained quite a bit about the service, slowness, etc.  They told their complaints to me, not blaming me, but just complaining.  They seemed to complain about a lot of people.  So, over time, I got to thinking that they actually weren't going to be very nice gals to be around, at some point . . . . even though they were treating me very well.

[Bruce]

Always look at the positives and enjoy the process  : .  Enjoy every moment of every day whether you have a girlfriend or not, whether you made a trip to the FSU and it was a disaster for possible women, or you met a woman, it progressed and failed, or things clicked and you moved on to a K-1 or K-3 over hopefully a fairly long time period getting to know each other as well as possible prior to deciding to marry. 

[philb]

Always look at the positives and enjoy the process  : .  Enjoy every moment of every day whether you have a girlfriend or not, whether you made a trip to the FSU and it was a disaster for possible women, or you met a woman, it progressed and failed, or things clicked and you moved on to a K-1 or K-3 over hopefully a fairly long time period getting to know each other as well as possible prior to deciding to marry. 

For me this sums things up beautifully,  well said Bruce.

[jb]

Knowing then what I know now.

I'd have married her 20 years sooner.

[2tallbill]

I've resurrected another thread for the experienced members.
What was your biggest lesson learned?


It's alive!!

[ML]

Biggest lesson:

That USA guys really can 'trade up' by going to FSU.

I had a ton of fun with dozens of gals, found probably 10 or so that would likely make good long term partners, and ended up with a very interesting, highly intelligent, hard working, good looking wife who keeps us both happy about 90% of the time.

After reviewing the prior postings here and reflecting on the plethora of train wrecks that have been reported here, I am very glad that I did not become the pursuer of some super, super attractive gals.

Rather, I just laid back and concentrated on those who pursued me or at least showed great interest in me and demonstrated great patience with some of my perhaps esoteric behaviors.

[2tallbill]

I learned so many lessons it's difficult to name one of them
as number one.

I did the pay per view, pay to chat, pay by letter. 
I pursued girls who were too young. 
I didn't trust my gut on my first trip, my gut was right. 

I guess my biggest lesson was to be humble. I was
humbled by my mistakes and failures and I looked
at everything I did from the first letter or message to
the first kiss deciding to improve everything that I could
to improve my tactics and find success. 

[Steamer]

I am very glad that I did not become the pursuer of some super, super attractive gals.
Rather, I just laid back and concentrated on those who pursued me or at least showed great interest in me and demonstrated great patience with some of my perhaps esoteric behaviors.

I always thought RW looked like movie stars so I let them pick me out to avoid uncomfortable situations.

[I/O]

Assuming that RW'S frugality indicated they have a clue with money - for the most part they don't.

Some will be offended by my observation, especially RW's but my observation is not limited  to my wife, I've come to understand they are classic "Penny wise and pound foolish"....