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Author Topic: 2019 - nCoV (novel coronavirus originating in Wuhan, China)  (Read 304723 times)

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Offline Gator

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Re: 2019 - nCoV (novel coronavirus originating in Wuhan, China)
« Reply #1100 on: July 15, 2020, 08:31:26 AM »
krimster, I like your steak knives.  Where can I buy them?

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Re: 2019 - nCoV (novel coronavirus originating in Wuhan, China)
« Reply #1101 on: July 15, 2020, 08:32:14 AM »
VACCINE NEWS

Moderna, one of the pharma companies in Trump's fast track vaccine program has released promising news about its Phase 2 trials.  It had earlier released results for 8 of the 45 participants.  Now all 45 have been reported, and all participants produced neutralizing antibodies.  The level of antibodies  is 2-4x greater than seen in patients who had recovered from COVID.    The antibodies are responsible for blocking the virus from entering target cells.

The testing required two doses.   The first dose produced antibodies at small levels.  A second dose increased levels tenfold.    Side affects were considered tolerable, similar to early stage of flu, e. g. fever, fatigue. 

NIH's renown Dr. Fauci had this to say:

Quote
The hallmark of a vaccine is one that can actually mimic natural infection and induce the kind of response that you would get with natural infection. And it looks like, at least in this limited, small number of individuals, that is exactly what’s happening.  The data really look quite good. There were no serious adverse events.

Moderna says it will start a Phase 3 trial with 30,000 patients on July 27.  The participants will include more vulnerable populations (age 55-70+ and preexisting morbidity).   Phase 3 will examine participants for side effects, development of antibodies, and the reactions of any who happen to become infected with COVID (none are purposefully exposed to the virus).  I would assume many participants will be selected from areas with recent surges to increase the opportunity for exposure.     

Offline msmob

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Re: 2019 - nCoV (novel coronavirus originating in Wuhan, China)
« Reply #1102 on: July 15, 2020, 09:02:53 AM »
Antibodies and 'immunity'

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-52446965

A new study of people who have caught and recovered from coronavirus raises the prospect that immunity to the virus may be short-lived.

Offline Gator

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Re: 2019 - nCoV (novel coronavirus originating in Wuhan, China)
« Reply #1103 on: July 15, 2020, 09:12:13 AM »


A new study of people who have caught and recovered from coronavirus raises the prospect that immunity to the virus may be short-lived.

So!?  If true, need booster shots. 

Next question. 

Offline Gator

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Re: 2019 - nCoV (novel coronavirus originating in Wuhan, China)
« Reply #1104 on: July 15, 2020, 09:20:43 AM »
Many question whether a vaccine can be developed for COVID-19, comparing it to the failed billions of dollars of research to find a vaccine for HIV.

A key difference is the high number of COVID-19 infections that manifested only mild or no symptoms, unlike HIV which infects the body's t-cells important to immunity.    And most of the infected patients  recovered.    This says the immune system can defeat the virus. 

Internationally there are 160 different vaccines under development for COVID-19.   The NIH recently opened its COVID PREVENTION NETWORK site with info about vaccines.  Some of the info is incomplete, yet it has a very informative and simplified section on the  "The Science of COVID-19 Vaccines and Antibodies."

http://www.coronaviruspreventionnetwork.org/coronavirus-vaccine-and-antibody-science/


Offline Gator

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Re: 2019 - nCoV (novel coronavirus originating in Wuhan, China)
« Reply #1105 on: July 15, 2020, 09:27:06 AM »
By the way, at the NIH site I referenced above, one can complete a form to volunteer to participate in clinical studies. 

I did.  It is likely oversubscribed and I am too old. 

Offline BillyB

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Re: 2019 - nCoV (novel coronavirus originating in Wuhan, China)
« Reply #1106 on: July 15, 2020, 09:32:09 AM »
VACCINE NEWS

Moderna, one of the pharma companies in Trump's fast track vaccine program has released promising news about its Phase 2 trials.  It had earlier released results for 8 of the 45 participants.  Now all 45 have been reported, and all participants produced neutralizing antibodies.  The level of antibodies  is 2-4x greater than seen in patients who had recovered from COVID.    The antibodies are responsible for blocking the virus from entering target cells.



I read an article Moderna's stock jumped 15% based on this latest news. In the past scientists and doctors have criticized Moderna for using the media to promote a product of theirs that is under development when reality is there is a very low chance of it being accepted. Other labs in America and around the world are ahead or neck in neck with Moderna in developing their vaccines but they've been going about their business quietly. Also, governments may encourage them to talk periodically about good news to give people hope.




The testing required two doses.   The first dose produced antibodies at small levels.  A second dose increased levels tenfold.    Side affects were considered tolerable, similar to early stage of flu, e. g. fever, fatigue. 


The amount of vaccine to give in one dose is also under review. Small, medium, or large amounts were considered. The large amount is now out of consideration. This tells me this vaccine can be dangerous in large amounts. Smaller doses may be acceptable but more testing needed. It's easy to accomplish safe. It's easy to accomplish
effective. It's rare a vaccine in development will be approved safe AND effective but they will probably relax the rules this time. Who's going to be first in line for the vaccine when it comes out?
Fund the audits, spread the word and educate people, write your politicians and other elected officials. Stay active in the fight to save our country. Over 220 generals and admirals say we are in a fight for our survival like no other time since 1776.

Offline Gator

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Re: 2019 - nCoV (novel coronavirus originating in Wuhan, China)
« Reply #1107 on: July 15, 2020, 09:47:51 AM »

This tells me this vaccine can be dangerous in large amounts.

Not so much "dangerous" as increased side effects with little added benefit.


Quote
Smaller doses may be acceptable but more testing needed.

Phase 3 study of 30,000 participants commences in less than two weeks.  In comparison to 45, I say 30,000 is considerably  "more testing." 

Offline msmob

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Re: 2019 - nCoV (novel coronavirus originating in Wuhan, China)
« Reply #1108 on: July 15, 2020, 11:37:09 AM »
So!?  If true, need booster shots. 

Next question.

??  Best read up before proving you've not got a clue, there, Phil  (

You need vaccine to be working, first ..  :popcorn:

Offline BC

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Re: 2019 - nCoV (novel coronavirus originating in Wuhan, China)
« Reply #1109 on: July 15, 2020, 12:52:21 PM »
Moby,

Depending on how the next trial phase goes, an infection may be a 'booster'.  We'll just have to wait and see though as much is still not known.

It would, of course, be bad if booster shots are needed as such would indicate that the initial shot was not that effective.  Complicating/doubling logistics and longer waits until the body builds up the required immunity could add months to the timeline.  Get shot today, wait a few weeks, get another shot, wait a few weeks.

But at least a milestone was met and seems all did produce antibodies so progress was made.

My greatest concern is all that will happen in the next 6-9 months which is the earliest a decent number of folks, but far from all, could be vaccinated.

The infection and death rates are going to be appalling if states don't start locking down completely.

Offline Gator

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Re: 2019 - nCoV (novel coronavirus originating in Wuhan, China)
« Reply #1110 on: July 15, 2020, 01:41:52 PM »
??  Best read up before proving you've not got a clue, there, Phil  (


Take a deep breath and re-read your little BBC article which talks about six other other human coronaviruses.    It says for two dangerous coronaviruses, antibodies have been detected years after the infection and recovery.  For the four milder coronaviruses (common cold symptoms), "some patients could be re-infected within a year."

Quote
  You need vaccine to be working, first ..  :popcorn:

Tests starting soon  on 30,000 participants will show if the vaccine is "working."  To understand "working,"  try to understand "neutralizing antibodies," how they are produced as the human body recovers from actual infections, and how the vaccine Phase 2 trials showed the inoculated participants produced antibodies at levels 2-4x  greater than measured in patients who recovered from actual infections. 

Also, re-read my quote from Dr. Fauci for a simple explanation.

If you structure you  questions precisely, maybe I can help.  BC's comment about infection being a "booster" suggests he understands.   

Offline msmob

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Re: 2019 - nCoV (novel coronavirus originating in Wuhan, China)
« Reply #1111 on: July 15, 2020, 01:49:30 PM »
Take a deep breath and re-read your little BBC article which talks about six other other human coronaviruses.    It says for two dangerous coronaviruses, antibodies have been detected years after the infection and recovery.  For the four milder coronaviruses (common cold symptoms), "some patients could be re-infected within a year."

Phil, once again, you cannot quit when behind

1/ There has been NO vaccine for a Coronavirus, as they are ever mutating

2/ Deal with your ignorance re 'herd immunity', please .. There's no such thing..

3/ I admire your  Dr Fauci.. Shame your President and some other 'patriots' can't

Offline BC

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Re: 2019 - nCoV (novel coronavirus originating in Wuhan, China)
« Reply #1112 on: July 15, 2020, 02:04:00 PM »
Phil, once again, you cannot quit when behind

1/ There has been NO vaccine for a Coronavirus, as they are ever mutating


I don't think there has ever been so much invested in developing a new vaccine.  By investment I'm not talking money but instead so many working at a feverish pace to find a solution.  I hope it works but time was not used wisely in other ways that are just as effective as a vaccine.

At the moment, for those in places on this planet that have not been able to bring and keep their infections down there seems to be no plan B in an environment that only gets riskier, and deadlier as time passes. 

Offline BillyB

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Re: 2019 - nCoV (novel coronavirus originating in Wuhan, China)
« Reply #1113 on: July 15, 2020, 02:31:11 PM »
There has been NO vaccine for a Coronavirus, as they are ever mutating





There are numerous strains of SARS-COV2 out there but the mutations aren't big enough to worry yet. The experts believe the vaccines that are being developed will be able to take on all current strains. If we can eliminate this virus off the planet earth, we won't need to worry about a big enough mutation that current vaccines won't work against.
Fund the audits, spread the word and educate people, write your politicians and other elected officials. Stay active in the fight to save our country. Over 220 generals and admirals say we are in a fight for our survival like no other time since 1776.

Offline Gator

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Re: 2019 - nCoV (novel coronavirus originating in Wuhan, China)
« Reply #1114 on: July 15, 2020, 02:40:07 PM »
Phil, once again, you cannot quit when behind

1/ There has been NO vaccine for a Coronavirus, as they are ever mutating   

If impossible why would many of the world's pharmaceutical companies spend billions endeavoring to develop a vaccine.  Could it be they understand medical science better than you?  Is it possible that these hundreds of PhDs and MDs have more of a clue than a weakly educated drifter from Ireland. 

2/ Deal with your ignorance re 'herd immunity', please .. There's no such thing..

I stand with the medical science community, such as the Mayo Clinic:
   
http://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/coronavirus/in-depth/herd-immunity-and-coronavirus/art-20486808

Does one scientific organization support your lame thought?
 

3/ I admire your  Dr Fauci.. Shame your President and some other 'patriots' can't

Trump and Fauci are fine.   Sometimes Fauci conflicts with a member of Trump's staff.  That happens when people with different backgrounds and goals deliberate an issue. 


Let's talk about your posting style, using this as an example:     

Your responses were:  immediate, no thought, unconnected, false, and seemingly emotional.....you suffer from anxiety, don't you.  It must become excruciatingly at times, especially to others.     

Offline GQBlues

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Re: 2019 - nCoV (novel coronavirus originating in Wuhan, China)
« Reply #1115 on: July 15, 2020, 03:49:08 PM »
Let's talk about your posting style,....

Why bother? These guys have nothing to do all day but Google. They Google so much they actually believe they've become omniscient. They even start telling you what's happening in your own backyard from half a world away. In every subject too, every thread, with literally against every poster and in multiple forums...

It's really funny to see after a while...
Quote from: msmob
1. Because of 'man', global warming is causing desert and arid areas to suffer long, dry spell.
2. The 2018 Camp Fire and Woolsey California wildfires are forests burning because of global warming.
3. N95 mask will choke you dead after 30 min. of use.

Offline Gator

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Re: 2019 - nCoV (novel coronavirus originating in Wuhan, China)
« Reply #1116 on: July 15, 2020, 06:39:48 PM »
BACK TO DISCUSSION OF VACCINES

BillyB mentioned how Moderna has readily released its clinical test results to promote the progress in the development of their vaccine, including partial results for its Phase 2 trial.   Concurrently Moderna raised investment money, and some insiders sold stock. 

Other phrama companies have released less information.  One, the venture between Oxford University and the British-Swedish drug company AstraZeneca, has yet to release its Phase 1 Trial results.  Nevertheless,  WHO stated that of all the 100+ vaccine ventures being undertaken worldwide,  Oxford-AstraZeneca's vaccine  is the "most advanced in terms of development."   In fact, its Phase 3 trial is already underway in many countries around the globe.

Its Phase 1 results will be published Monday in Lancet.   And expectations are high.   AZ claims to have the capacity to produce two billion doses for the world.  The venture is participating in the US's Operation Warp Speed program.

Offline msmob

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Re: 2019 - nCoV (novel coronavirus originating in Wuhan, China)
« Reply #1117 on: July 15, 2020, 07:38:45 PM »
Let's talk about your posting style, using this as an example:     

Your responses were:  immediate, no thought, unconnected, false, and seemingly emotional.....you suffer from anxiety, don't you.  It must become excruciatingly at times, especially to others.   

Let's talk about my 'posting style'..because . ?  Because you are 'upset' at my pointing out you're ( once again ) posting uninformed tosh ? .. :popcorn:

Why bother? These guys have nothing to do all day but Google. They Google so much they actually believe they've become omniscient. They even start telling you what's happening in your own backyard from half a world away. In every subject too, every thread, with literally against every poster and in multiple forums...

It's really funny to see after a while...



Said the chap who keeps pushing HCQ's 'efficacy' re treating COVID-19 ...


There are numerous strains of SARS-COV2 out there but the mutations aren't big enough to worry yet.

And you base this 'bizarre factoid' on who's findings ? 

The experts believe the vaccines that are being developed will be able to take on all current strains. If we can eliminate this virus off the planet earth, we won't need to worry about a big enough mutation that current vaccines won't work against.

Could you please show us where you Googled THAT ? ..

Offline BillyB

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Re: 2019 - nCoV (novel coronavirus originating in Wuhan, China)
« Reply #1118 on: July 15, 2020, 08:19:42 PM »
.
And you base this 'bizarre factoid' on who's findings ? 

Could you please show us where you Googled THAT ? ..



It's easy to Google this info but apparently you failed. You must think the best and brightest minds in the development of vaccines failed to account for ALL the current strains of the Coronavirus out there. Who's the knucklehead?


http://www.medpagetoday.com/infectiousdisease/covid19/85604


http://www.healthline.com/health-news/what-to-know-about-mutation-and-covid-19


US Army Scientists working with AstraZenca doens't think it's a problem and AstraZenca thinks they may have a vaccine as early as October.


http://www.defenseone.com/technology/2020/06/army-scientist-all-strains-covid-19-can-be-covered-one-vaccine/165851/


http://www.hhs.gov/about/news/2020/05/21/trump-administration-accelerates-astrazeneca-covid-19-vaccine-to-be-available-beginning-in-october.html
Fund the audits, spread the word and educate people, write your politicians and other elected officials. Stay active in the fight to save our country. Over 220 generals and admirals say we are in a fight for our survival like no other time since 1776.

Offline msmob

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Re: 2019 - nCoV (novel coronavirus originating in Wuhan, China)
« Reply #1119 on: July 15, 2020, 08:41:45 PM »

It's easy to Google this info but apparently you failed.

I asked YOU to 'backup your source' and knew you'd prove who's the 'knucklehead'... you didn't disappoint.

It is now mid July and I'll remind you in October ( when your experts are making excuses as to the weaknesses of their product ) who knew better..

Here's an article that should explain why you're being ignorant and overly optimistic

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/may/22/why-we-might-not-get-a-coronavirus-vaccine


You have informed fellow posters of the myth re 'herd immunity' but proceed to prove you failed to understand why ..

Here's the truth:

More likely is we will end up with a vaccine, or a number of vaccines, that are only partially effective.




Offline BillyB

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Re: 2019 - nCoV (novel coronavirus originating in Wuhan, China)
« Reply #1120 on: July 15, 2020, 08:54:39 PM »

Here's an article that should explain why you're being ignorant and overly optimistic

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/may/22/why-we-might-not-get-a-coronavirus-vaccine




There's nothing in that article that disagrees with anything I've ever said. I've always said there had never been a safe and effective vaccine created for any coronavirus in history but I also understand the rules will be relaxed to find a vaccine this time and they will put something out even if it doesn't meet normal standards for effectiveness. I've always stated any vaccine will not work on 100% of the people. It may not even work for half the people who take a vaccine. After the first wave of vaccines come out, there will be continued work to create improved vaccines. The pursuit of better vaccines will last for years.
Fund the audits, spread the word and educate people, write your politicians and other elected officials. Stay active in the fight to save our country. Over 220 generals and admirals say we are in a fight for our survival like no other time since 1776.

Offline BC

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Re: 2019 - nCoV (novel coronavirus originating in Wuhan, China)
« Reply #1121 on: July 15, 2020, 10:09:28 PM »
They even start telling you what's happening in your own backyard from half a world away.

Is interesting that much the dire situation we face today as a nation is brought about by ignoring and not learning from what happened half a world away, what worked and what did not.

Some call it 'denial', I call it 'terminal uniqueness'.

Offline GQBlues

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Re: 2019 - nCoV (novel coronavirus originating in Wuhan, China)
« Reply #1122 on: July 15, 2020, 10:49:10 PM »
Is interesting that much the dire situation we face today as a nation is brought about by ignoring and not learning from what happened half a world away, what worked and what did not.

Some call it 'denial', I call it 'terminal uniqueness'.

we as a nation?’
Quote from: msmob
1. Because of 'man', global warming is causing desert and arid areas to suffer long, dry spell.
2. The 2018 Camp Fire and Woolsey California wildfires are forests burning because of global warming.
3. N95 mask will choke you dead after 30 min. of use.

Offline BC

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Re: 2019 - nCoV (novel coronavirus originating in Wuhan, China)
« Reply #1123 on: July 15, 2020, 10:56:47 PM »
Indeed.

Offline msmob

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Re: 2019 - nCoV (novel coronavirus originating in Wuhan, China)
« Reply #1124 on: July 16, 2020, 01:09:54 AM »

There's nothing in that article that disagrees with anything I've ever said.

Come October, BillyB ..

'My' article ( clearly) and in layman's terms, showed what difficulties finding a safe and reliable vaccine will have..given you also remind us of 'herd immunity' being a fallacy..

Now you know why...

 

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