2019 - nCoV (novel coronavirus originating in Wuhan, China)

[John Gaunt]

Going by these stats Gator while populations are looking like they are going to decrease in some parts of the world it's not quite the 'collapse' John Gaunt seems to suggest. Looks to me more like they level off then decline a little and that's probably not a bad thing if we consider stuff like robotics, online shopping, computer automation, etc likely to decrease the number of jobs available in the future. It will also mean we'll be able to keep consuming meat without cutting down any more rainforest which is a big bear for environmentalists.

I've heard the UK's population will likely keep up mainly due to immigration while other countries populations may decline. I still think there will only be slight falling off overall. Some couples just have one child so that means when they pass on they aren't both replaced at the same rate. Probably just as well we're not all pushing out loads of kids like they used too as then I think that would be a far greater cause for concern & trouble than a bit off a fall off in numbers.

Gators numbers are from Wicki so may not be the most reliable.

You should do a little research to educate yourself.
I’ll give you a little leg up.
This is a good article although I don’t agree with some of its conclusions around increasing immigration as that'll just result in more of the same.

[fathertime]

I don’t think immigration is the answer because, guess what? Immigrants grow old too.

I think the answer is advocacy for a simpler lifestyle without the rampant consumerism that drives modern economies.
Then there wouldn’t be the need for the huge labour forces to fill jobs to create products or support lifestyles that one can really do without.

PS. I know you’re a Bidener but no need to make this political.

You are wrong, where did I mention biden?  What does biden have to do with this?  Why are you making it political now?  BTW, I wasn't a trump supporter, nor am I am 'bidener', although he may be better than trump.

Of course I would agree partially with rampant consumerism comment, although that is the American way nowadays.  Most of our consumer goods are made in China, so it isn't as if our labor force is being used locally.   The immigrants are the plumbers, the roofers, the drywallers....the custodians...they are staff in old age homes.  Despite the grumblings, by and large we are lucky to have them at our beck and call...for now. 

Fathertime! 

[John Gaunt]

You are wrong, where did I mention biden?  What does biden have to do with this?  Why are you making it political now?  BTW, I wasn't a trump supporter, nor am I am 'bidener', although he may be better than trump.

Of course I would agree partially with rampant consumerism comment, although that is the American way nowadays.  Most of our consumer goods are made in China, so it isn't as if our labor force is being used locally.   The immigrants are the plumbers, the roofers, the drywallers....the custodians...they are staff in old age homes.  Despite the grumblings, by and large we are lucky to have them at our beck and call...for now. 

Fathertime!

Just going by the tone of your posts on balance you come across as more of a Bidener even if you haven’t explicitly mentioned him.

It’s not just consumerism though. It’s the whole way of life predicated around consumerism, regardless of where products are made. End result, society requires masses of labour.
You support immigration but it really isn’t the solution as that just eventually leads back to the same problem.

[fathertime]

Just going by the tone of your posts on balance you come across as more of a Bidener even if you haven’t explicitly mentioned him.
 

So why are you making up BS about biden and attributing it to me?  Stick to the point which wasn't biden.  Why don't you take a look at the post you are saying I 'biden'fied' and explain how you came to that I bidenfied the topic?  I've simply stated a view on immigration illegal and legal. 

It’s not just consumerism though. It’s the whole way of life predicated around consumerism, regardless of where products are made. End result, society requires masses of labour.

What are you saying here?  without the immigrants in recent decades the US would already be an old greying nation.  As earlier stated, the immigrants are providing many services that our nation wants.  They often take care of the elderly for example, and also childcare.     Building houses is dominated by immigrants and the sons/daughters of immigrants.   Agriculture too.  I don't see many 75 year olds picking grapes and strawberries.  Of course there are other solutions.   

You support immigration but it really isn’t the solution as that just eventually leads back to the same problem.

What is the 'same problem'?   Is there currently a pressing problem?   In 50 years, technology may well solve a lot of the potential problems, and overall population is on course to slow and perhaps decline.   
I do agree that silly consumerism is unnecessary and wasteful, although I won't attempt to dictate what others do with the money they have earned.  Personally I rarely buy anything outside of direct needs although I have the resources to do so.  So in that respect I'm not a good consumer for the economy. 

Fathertime! 

[ML]

We do NOT need immigration to survive as a country.
Nothing wrong with a declining population over time.
Probably would make our country better.
We can find people right here in our country to do the agricultural work, yard work, taking care of nursing home folks, etc.
It's all about wage rates and forcing those on welfare (who are not handicapped) to take jobs if they want a cash flow coming in.
I will do some yard work . . . or force my wife to do so . . . for a 'correct' wage !!!  :-)

Speaking of yard work . . . a solution is to have required wages so high that people cannot afford to have extensive manicured properties.  Then we would go to more use of 'natural' landscaping along with sand, pebbles, river rock, etc., laid over landscape fabric to replace grass.  Would save a lot of water also, which is in short supply in many areas.

[John Gaunt]

So why are you making up BS about biden and attributing it to me?  Stick to the point which wasn't biden.  Why don't you take a look at the post you are saying I 'biden'fied' and explain how you came to that I bidenfied the topic?  I've simply stated a view on immigration illegal and legal. 

Why are you getting so raggedy arsed over this? I’ve already explained it to you. Is it that difficult to comprehend?

What are you saying here?  without the immigrants in recent decades the US would already be an old greying nation.  As earlier stated, the immigrants are providing many services that our nation wants.  They often take care of the elderly for example, and also childcare.     Building houses is dominated by immigrants and the sons/daughters of immigrants.   Agriculture too.  I don't see many 75 year olds picking grapes and strawberries.  Of course there are other solutions.   

What I’m saying is that with immigration the country ends up with more grey.
People have become lazy and want everything done for them around the clock, that’s why there’s 24/7 shopping, dining etc, all on demand. A world of instant gratification and Walmart.
Without this constant stream of cheap labour feeding the demand things might be different.
People would have to graft for themselves.

What is the 'same problem'?   Is there currently a pressing problem?   In 50 years, technology may well solve a lot of the potential problems, and overall population is on course to slow and perhaps decline.   

The solution being offered is never ending immigration from the south to the north. Those people will grow old too. That’s the ‘same’ I’m talking about. Pretty obvious I’d have thought.

I do agree that silly consumerism is unnecessary and wasteful,

We can agree on this.

[GQBlues]

Continued mix messages about the vaccine. This from the Mayo Clinic.

http://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/coronavirus/in-depth/coronavirus-vaccine/art-20484859#safety-precautions


What are the benefits of getting a COVID-19 vaccine?

A COVID-19 vaccine might:
Prevent you from getting COVID-19 or from becoming seriously ill or dying due to COVID-19
Prevent you from spreading the COVID-19 virus to others
Add to the number of people in the community who are protected from getting COVID-19 — making it harder for the disease to spread and contributing to herd immunity
Prevent the COVID-19 virus from spreading and replicating, which allows it to mutate and possibly become more resistant to vaccines.

Then on the next page, they say:

Can I stop taking safety precautions after getting a COVID-19 vaccine?
After getting a COVID-19 vaccine, the CDC recommends that it’s OK for fully vaccinated people to:
Visit other fully vaccinated people indoors — without wearing masks or avoiding close contact
Visit unvaccinated people from one household who are at low risk for severe illness from COVID-19 — indoors and without wearing masks or avoiding close contact.
You are considered fully vaccinated 2 weeks after you get a second dose of an mRNA COVID-19 vaccine or 2 weeks after you get a single dose of the Johnson & Johnson COVID-19 vaccine.

However, vaccinated people should continue to take safety precautions, such as wearing a mask and avoiding close contact (within about 6 feet, or 2 meters) with others, when they are:
In public
Visiting people who are unvaccinated and at increased risk for severe illness from COVID-19
Visiting people who have an unvaccinated household member at increased risk for severe illness from COVID-19
Visiting unvaccinated people from many households
Keep in mind that if you’re fully vaccinated from COVID-19, your risk of getting COVID-19 might be low. But if you become infected, you might spread the COVID-19 virus to others even if you don’t have any signs or symptoms of COVID-19.
*Might*?!? It would've been far more economical if they just said, take the vaccine at your own peril because as of right now no one still understands, much less know, with great certainty how effective it really is.

[fathertime]

Why are you getting so raggedy arsed over this? I’ve already explained it to you. Is it that difficult to comprehend?

Because I feel like giving you some crap for making up the biden-ification of the topic which I DID NOT start. 

What I’m saying is that with immigration the country ends up with more grey.
People have become lazy and want everything done for them around the clock, that’s why there’s 24/7 shopping, dining etc, all on demand. A world of instant gratification and Walmart.
Without this constant stream of cheap labour feeding the demand things might be different.
People would have to graft for themselves.The solution being offered is never ending immigration from the south to the north. Those people will grow old too. That’s the ‘same’ I’m talking about. Pretty obvious I’d have thought.

Well obviously everybody gets old although not all at once which is where we would have been on course for.   Immigration is how the country is getting a lot of work done here. 
There are indeed a lot of lazy people here, all you have to do is look at the size of the average american.   If we (US citizens) don't want immigration then we can do our own work, and look after ourselves, our children, our elderly.   Generally speaking, the reality is we don't do these things.      Like in China, we would have the 4-2-1 problem.   Immigration keeps the population young and vibrant. 

Fathertime! 

[GQBlues]

FWIW.

Immigration is not, never has been, the problem in the US. It's the ILLEGAL immigration that is.

It is advocated, allowed and supported by most liberal politicians and a huge number of Republican politicians who receive untold hundreds of millions in the form of paybacks, campaign donations, sidekicks, etc..by the likes of Koch brothers, unions, Waltons, Tyson Foods, Foster Farms, etc...and a slew of agricultural numbskulls.


The US is NOT better of because of ILLEGAL IMMIGRATION. Not for the general citizenry (we pay for their welfare and keep via taxation, the crony elite and politicians reap benefit) and certainly not for the economy. All it does is promote poverty, burden public education, and criminalities...

[Chelseaboy]

We do NOT need immigration to survive as a country.
Nothing wrong with a declining population over time.
Probably would make our country better.
We can find people right here in our country to do the agricultural work, yard work, taking care of nursing home folks, etc.
It's all about wage rates and forcing those on welfare (who are not handicapped) to take jobs if they want a cash flow coming in.
I will do some yard work . . . or force my wife to do so . . . for a 'correct' wage !!!  :-)

Speaking of yard work . . . a solution is to have required wages so high that people cannot afford to have extensive manicured properties.  Then we would go to more use of 'natural' landscaping along with sand, pebbles, river rock, etc., laid over landscape fabric to replace grass.  Would save a lot of water also, which is in short supply in many areas.

I feel the same way about the UK.


If the wages are decent enough to encourage people to get off benefits and into work,we don't need low-paid immigrants .


The only people who benefit from immigration are companies/bosses who make bigger profits by employing immigrants on low wages,rather than pay a decent wage to British workers.


Less immigration means less crime.less demand on housing,less intensive farming to feed a growing population,a higher standard of living due to higher earnings and a lot less kids living in poverty and less demand for food banks...in other words it would make the UK a more pleasant place to live in...instead of the shoitehole it's rapidly becoming.

[Shadow]

Well to all who believe we do not need those pesky immigrants. How about putting out an ad for heavy physical work and then ensuring you will only hire your countrymen.
Even if you place this at the unemployment agencies with help from the social workers in sending people I doubt you will get more than 10 people. Meanwhile there will about 100 immigrants begging you to hire them at half the pay.Yes we do need cheap labour, and people willing to do hard workAnd mot who complain about them will not rise their butt for minimal wages, as they are used to getting nearly the same plus benefits for not doing anything (legal)

[GQBlues]

Well to all who believe we do not need those pesky immigrants. How about putting out an ad for heavy physical work and then ensuring you will only hire your countrymen.
Even if you place this at the unemployment agencies with help from the social workers in sending people I doubt you will get more than 10 people.

We look for unskilled labor every single day. Can't find them because thousands are all working. Tens of thousands remain in this line of work all the way to their retirement. The notion no one wants to do hard work in the US is a myth.

Meanwhile there will about 100 immigrants begging you to hire them at half the pay.

We wouldn't hire them because we are co-signatory to eVerify. It's against the law to hire illegal immigrants.

Yes we do need cheap labour,

Need? No. Can't say anything about your country though. Maybe that's the way it is in the Netherlands.

...and people willing to do hard work

Again. Plenty of those here.

..And mot who complain about them will not rise their butt for minimal wages, as they are used to getting nearly the same plus benefits for not doing anything (legal)

I bet you a good wager I've done more hard work in a month than you ever have in a year. Yes, I complain about illegal immigration. Just slow to realize I'm doing so in futility. Our politicians are too busy lining their pockets, along with their respective overlords who hire these illegals, to make sure there's plenty of them coming in our nation every year and if not everyday.

[Trenchcoat]

I feel the same way about the UK.


If the wages are decent enough to encourage people to get off benefits and into work,we don't need low-paid immigrants .


The only people who benefit from immigration are companies/bosses who make bigger profits by employing immigrants on low wages,rather than pay a decent wage to British workers.


Less immigration means less crime.less demand on housing,less intensive farming to feed a growing population,a higher standard of living due to higher earnings and a lot less kids living in poverty and less demand for food banks...in other words it would make the UK a more pleasant place to live in...instead of the shoitehole it's rapidly becoming.

I agree too a country can definitely be overpopulated. That can lead to problems with housing, jobs, wages being too low and generally people virtually crawling over each other. I also don't think people get to know one another and treat one another well. It all becomes a rat race that is unpleasant for most people. I think unfortunately that the UK went that way somewhat with EU immigration. I don't really see any of the mass immigration into the country as being good for Britain. I've got no problem with the odd few individuals coming in, through marriage, etc but I think apart from the above reasons mass immigration makes a society less cohesive. Had we not had the immigration from Eastern Europe housing would be far more affordable in this country and that beings a much better lifestyle. New houses being built are just tiny, 2 or 3 bed houses with just enough room for a bed, a bedside table and a cupboard in the room, back to terrace housing some of it even smaller than the old Victorian/Edwardian terrace housing yet they expect a whole family to live in there despite there being not enough room to swim a cat lol.

As you know doubt know CB housing was never as big an issue as it used to be today, just used to be a case of buying any place going to live in. Now it's a Kings ransom to just get a small pokey place to get a chance of eeking out a half decent life if you're lucky.

[Trenchcoat]

Well to all who believe we do not need those pesky immigrants. How about putting out an ad for heavy physical work and then ensuring you will only hire your countrymen.
Even if you place this at the unemployment agencies with help from the social workers in sending people I doubt you will get more than 10 people. Meanwhile there will about 100 immigrants begging you to hire them at half the pay.Yes we do need cheap labour, and people willing to do hard workAnd mot who complain about them will not rise their butt for minimal wages, as they are used to getting nearly the same plus benefits for not doing anything (legal)

All people tend to be pragmatists & opportunitists to a basic level I believe. Anyone going to another country will take the first thing on hand that can be picked up the easiest. They'll do that work for only so long as it seems practical to do so. However, if they get used to it they may stay in it long term as it becomes all they know as they see it and if it seems reliable work then no need to rock the boat by going to other work that may not end up as reliable. So I don't see it as the hard work notion that is something that is down to a type of people more a type of situation. That's not to say that there couldn't be situations where native population would in certain circumstances go for the work I think.

[Trenchcoat]

Well anyway back to the topic the EU is now threatening to top exports of the Oxford Vaccine even though many of their member states no longer wish to use the Oxford vaccine lol, could it get more ridiculous!

Boris is going for the Oxford vaccine so I think it shows the Oxford is a good choice to  go for.

Meanwhile stocks of the Oxford vaccine are starting to run low here with a reduced Vaccination program planned for April.

[2tallbill]

However, vaccinated people should continue to ...............

Let me translate that for you...................

You should continue to obey us as your masters and continue giving your rights
to us. In addition you can lie, cheat or steal as long as it promotes or doesn't
interfere with lefty liberal ideals.

[Trenchcoat]

Anyone heard from BC of late? He normally posts here every so often but not of recent, possibly caught covid perhaps? Been a lot of it in Italy of late.

Notice someone pointed out no sign of JayH a few weeks back. I know he doesn't always post all the time but another covid one perhaps?

Anyway good to see the rest of you are all here & accounted for and more or less doing well

[Shadow]

Anyone heard from BC of late? He normally posts here every so often but not of recent, possibly caught covid perhaps? Been a lot of it in Italy of late.

Notice someone pointed out no sign of JayH a few weeks back. I know he doesn't always post all the time but another covid one perhaps?

Anyway good to see the rest of you are all here & accounted for and more or less doing well

BC usually posts here when his wife is abroad. And I doubt quarantaine of COVID will keep anyone from posting, only the severe hospitalization cases would get to that.

[Chelseaboy]

JayH hasn't been online since 21/1/20 so probably not Covid-19 related..especially as Australia hasn't been hit very hard by it.


Hopefully he is well and life is treating him well.

[Trenchcoat]

Oh good stuff, Krim is still MIA so unsure if that's due to the virus or his dealings with the Russian Mafia. Hopefully he'll surface soon

[Chelseaboy]

Yeah Krim did supposedly like living life on the edge.


Always entertaining : )


He was last online on 24/8/20..so it's been a while.

[BC]

Anyone heard from BC of late?

We're all doing great.  Just got a bit bored with the RWD merry-go-round for a while. I see it hasn't slowed a bit.  Plenty of outside work to do getting ready for spring.  Garden, trimming trees, pool prep etc etc along with hobbies and of course a lot of good grilling.  A couple of butcher shops in town really upped their game with a nice variety of dry-aged beef from all over Europe and even Iceland. I used to think the only place to get good grilling beef was in the US, but changed my mind after eating a steak from 10+ year old Spanish cow, dry-aged a couple months...  simply amazing.

Anyhoo, as for the topic my vaccination appointment should be coming up soon, but tempted to wait a bit and try out Sputnik V made in Italy.  So many flavors becoming available nowadays.

[Trenchcoat]

We're all doing great.  Just got a bit bored with the RWD merry-go-round for a while. I see it hasn't slowed a bit.  Plenty of outside work to do getting ready for spring.  Garden, trimming trees, pool prep etc etc along with hobbies and of course a lot of good grilling.  A couple of butcher shops in town really upped their game with a nice variety of dry-aged beef from all over Europe and even Iceland. I used to think the only place to get good grilling beef was in the US, but changed my mind after eating a steak from 10+ year old Spanish cow, dry-aged a couple months...  simply amazing.

Anyhoo, as for the topic my vaccination appointment should be coming up soon, but tempted to wait a bit and try out Sputnik V made in Italy.  So many flavors becoming available nowadays.

That's good to hear you're still knocking around BC as virus cases up throughout the EU including Italy. Well my big news of the day is that I had my Oxford Astra Zenaca jab yesterday on the same day as Boris I got it earlier than my age group  as I managed to wangle it somehow even though I don't have any underlying health problems (well not as far as I know). Anyway I'm pleased I got in now as the recent supply chain issue the gov talked about would have meant it would have been put back from mid April until at least early May then it may start to be a bit of trouble lining myself up for the Oxford one as the Moderna one is now currently expected to start in the UK in April. To my mind Moderna is just the same as Pfizer so not one for me.

Anyway, I'm not feeling too bad so far, slightly raised temperature last night for a bit and felt a little strange almost  queasy like but nothing too bad, so far way better than after I had my flu jab. At the moment feeling good enough with no obvious side effects so hopefully it'll stay that way.

Good you enjoy the garden BC the weather here is starting to come around for it I don't have a pool but I've got a pond lol I installed it last year and paved over most of the small back garden as otherwise it gets full of long grass and weeds. This way it will be manageable for me and should look nice when I plant a few small trees and plants this year, in the next few weeks most likely. That should provide a nice outside space which is more sought after these days because of the virus. I kind of need to clear a bit out the back to add a small extension so that's the task for me this weekend anyway.

Anyway remember to keep your head down till the current virus spate out there is over BC and I think you'll be alright

[GQBlues]

After over a year, wifey and I had our movie date again last night. Amazing how no one realized before that passing a 2 trillion dollars pork bill was the magic bullet against COVID-19 and the infamous lockdowns. No wonder they once called this the great reset. Just as interesting no one is talking about infection cases as it had also magically come down.

AMC theater nearly filed BK last October if not for the infusion of nearly a billion dollars. SMG, our preferred theater, didn’t quite make it unfortunately. Inside dining is open on a limited seating. Soon we’ll likely miss outdoor dining, too as it actually made for some romantic ambiance. If any of you are over in LA, try OSPI in Venice. West side’s current hottest dining ticket.

Huge thanks to Trump and his team for the ‘warp speed’ vaccine management.

[2tallbill]

The House Democrats just blocked a proposal last Tuesday that would have required illegal immigrants/aliens too, as Americans and all others who come to our country test negative for Covid-19 before they are released into the country by Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE).


As an American citizen, legal immigrant or if you have a Visa to travel to the United
States for pleasure and you test positive you are barred from entering the United
States until you have self-isolated yourself for 14 days.

The story changes a bit for people who are entering our country illegally through
our southern and I presume northern border.

The House Democrats just blocked a proposal last Tuesday that would have required
illegal immigrants/aliens too, as Americans and all others who come to our country
test negative for Covid-19 before they are released into the country by Immigration
and Customs Enforcement (ICE).


Read More: Dem's Demand Covid Test For You But Not For Their Illegal Friends | http://wbckfm.com/democrats-demand-covid-19-test-for-you-but-not-for-their-illegal-alien-friends/?utm_source=tsmclip&utm_medium=referral