Top U.S. general says it is time to consider arming Ukrainian forces

[AC]

Do you mind sharing your evidence for this?

Did you see that movie with George Clooney?  Let's just say that I have "remote viewing" capability.   

[Steamer]

Did you see that movie with George Clooney?  Let's just say that I have "remote viewing" capability.   

I'll take that as NO.

[AC]

I'll take that as NO.

Take it any way you want to.  I can assure you that US Generals in Europe and European Nato commanders have a very good idea what Putin is up to, and there's historical precedent of what he did to get Russia into the Chechen conflict.  His former KGB agent threatened to disclose and died a very painful death from polonium poisoning.

[lordtiberius]

I am now on record and have made known my opinion to my elected representatives that the US should arm Ukraine.

me 2

[southernX]

I would disagree with those that are suggesting that:

1) It's non US citizens asking to put America's sons and daughters in harms way; or

2) That it's out of line for citizens of allied countries asking for the US to get involved by sending lethal aid or military intervention.

The US congress is as eager as any of this forum's non US citizens to get moving as well...

Boehner, other top House members urge weapons for Ukraine

..."(Reuters) - U.S. House of Representatives Speaker John Boehner and other senior Republican and Democratic House members urged U.S. President Barack Obama to quickly authorize lethal weapons for Ukraine as it battles Russian-backed separatists, according to a letter released on Thursday.

"We urge you to quickly approve additional efforts to support Ukraine’s efforts to defend its sovereign territory, including through the transfer of lethal, defensive weapons systems to the Ukrainian military," they wrote in a letter, dated Wednesday and signed by eight Republicans and three Democrats."...

..."The House and U.S. Senate voted unanimously late last year for a bill authorizing Obama to provide weapons to Kiev but he has yet to decide whether to send any."...

This shows appropriate concern by US lawmakers not just non US forum participants. We are not in the minority here or in the meat world. There is overwhelming support for arming Ukraine. The White House is becoming increasingly isolated in it's stubborn refusal to do the right thing.

..."U.S. lawmakers on both sides of the aisle have expressed frustration with what many see as the Obama administration's resistance to providing weapons despite what they see as increased Russian aggression."...

This statement pretty well sums it up. Why? What is Obama's reasoning/justification for not arming Ukraine? There is none as far as I can tell.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/03/05/us-ukraine-crisis-congress-idUSKBN0M11V120150305

As to part 2;  Foreign countries sons and daughters have and continue to place themselves in harms way at America's behest, even today, right now infact. Best those who comment on those of us who support curtailing Russian aggression as talking a big game or that it's ok to stay out in this case remember that.

To read some of the narratives above you'd think those that support arming or military intervention are supporting/lobbying for something the US hasn't asked it's foreign allies for numerous times already.

I realize that the current administration is an anomaly and should not be an indicator of how the US will act in the future but President Obama's damaging inaction towards Ukraine will have far reaching consequences beyond his time in office.

I'd suggest that it will take years to undo the damage he's already caused with US allies, NATO and as the de facto leader of the free world in general. It may already be irreversible.

The US has asked for and received allied support/assistance in every military endeavor since Gulf 1 a military intervention to liberate Kuwait, a non aligned, non NATO country, after being invaded and annexed by Iraq. Coincidently enough, Iraq's invasion edit: of Kuwait was justified through calls to Iraqi nationalism. Kuwait was described as a natural part of Iraq that was usurped by British imperialism. Does that sound familiar?

Brass

thank you brass, well written accurate post,

to others, no allied country is expecting the US to send in troops unless we where to do so as well
all this bs about sending in your kids , while we sit at home is just shit stirring crap

weapons are in the same category

however britain & america  did pursue the nuclear  de arming of ukraine , they did sign the budapest memorandum which lead to that disarming of ukraine  , they gave a moral undertaking by so doing to protect ukraine if the need arose ,
they need to take the lead here ,

to date that protection has not been as forthcoming as it was expected
it is not a gang war in ukraine , it is a hybrid war waged by russian proxys and russian military ,

the US president is currently by doing little   playing into putins strategy ,imho , obamas lack of front foot action makes him look weak , id guess it has now gone so far as to start some allies govs/ populations to question the strength of the agreements between them that the US also may have signed ,

if as the world policemen your gov signs these agreements , they need to be prepared to stand up and demonstrate they will honour them ,
your president is not demonstrating that currently, neither is mr cameron , while the likes of ft might think thats ok , it is has having a ripple affect on your allies , they will become nervous if he does not act ,
as bras sstated , that will have deep repercusions into the future if obama continues on his strategy of patience .

russia will continue the aggression while it is allowed to and their is no pushback on putin ,
putin is not only destabilising ukraine he is also destabilising NATO ,and calling into question the integrity of the US as a world leader ...  that has been a large part of his aim

SX

[Steamer]

Take it any way you want to.  I can assure you that US Generals in Europe and European Nato commanders have a very good idea what Putin is up to, and there's historical precedent of what he did to get Russia into the Chechen conflict.

All you're doing is pulling hysterical stories out of your butt and passing them off as fact.

[Steamer]

Agree 1000%.  The time for diplomacy is over.  Putin is readying his Army for the invasion of Mariupol.  To convince his citizens that it's the right thing to do, his FSB/GRU operatives in E. Ukraine will trump-up some sort of humanitarian catastrophe and blame it on the "fascists" in Kiev.

 


And in case you already forgot what stories I'm talking about it's these stories.

[LiveFromUkraine]

thank you brass, well written accurate post,

to others, no allied country is expecting the US to send in troops unless we where to do so as well
all this bs about sending in your kids , while we sit at home is just shit stirring crap

No, you have it backwards.  Calling people cowards because they don't think this is our fight is "just shit stirring crap".   You and some others are claiming you are ready to fight yet you won't go and fight.  That is bs.

weapons are in the same category

however britain & america  did pursue the nuclear  de arming of ukraine , they did sign the budapest memorandum which lead to that disarming of ukraine  , they gave a moral undertaking by so doing to protect ukraine if the need arose ,
they need to take the lead here ,

It's a European problem.  This isn't rocket science.  The US, Britain and EU should have enough evidence to prove Russia has invaded Ukraine.  Yet there is no proclamation here that Russia has invaded.  Dish out the evidence so the budapest agreement can be enacted upon.


As of right now, the only proclamations I have read was Russia was aiding the rebels.

to date that protection has not been as forthcoming as it was expected
it is not a gang war in ukraine , it is a hybrid war waged by russian proxys and russian military ,

Yes, a US and Russian proxy war to be exact.

the US president is currently by doing little   playing into putins strategy ,imho , obamas lack of front foot action makes him look weak , id guess it has now gone so far as to start some allies govs/ populations to question the strength of the agreements between them that the US also may have signed ,

He doesn't need to do anything until Russia has been proven to have invaded Ukraine.  Again, the only evidence produced was Russian supplying aid and weapons.  Why again are the US/EU not providing evidence that Russia has invaded?

if as the world policemen your gov signs these agreements , they need to be prepared to stand up and demonstrate they will honour them ,
your president is not demonstrating that currently, neither is mr cameron , while the likes of ft might think thats ok , it is has having a ripple affect on your allies , they will become nervous if he does not act ,
as bras sstated , that will have deep repercusions into the future if obama continues on his strategy of patience .

Funny how the "world policeman" thing pops up when foreigners want the US to do something.

russia will continue the aggression while it is allowed to and their is no pushback on putin ,
putin is not only destabilising ukraine he is also destabilising NATO ,and calling into question the integrity of the US as a world leader ...  that has been a large part of his aim

SX

I agree and Europe should do something about it because it is their problem.   The US should back up it's allies in this case.

[southernX]

lfu,

you have a  reading comprehension issue

stick to your view see how it pans  out for you

SX

[LiveFromUkraine]

lfu,

you have a  reading comprehension issue

stick to your view see how it pans  out for you

SX

Yeah, yeah, so goes your bravado once more.  When do you leave for the front line?

[fathertime]

No, you have it backwards.  Calling people cowards because they don't think this is our fight is "just shit stirring crap".   You and some others are claiming you are ready to fight yet you won't go and fight.  That is bs.

Yup you got that right...SX is the biggest coward on the board....he says he feels so strongly about something, but won't lift a finger to help.   In addition to this, if somebody else has a different viewpoint, he attempts to pile on and  stifle that voice instead of accepting there are other viewpoints on these matters.   


Fathertime!   

[fathertime]

   
 

if as the world policemen your gov signs these agreements , they need to be prepared to stand up and demonstrate they will honour them ,
 

World police?  You have NO idea what a derogatory phrase that can be here in the states.  It invokes irritation among many when used.  There is a large segment of the population that has no interest in being the 'World Police'.  That probably figures into Obama's de-emphasis in getting involved in some of these foreign issues. 


Fathertime!   

[southernX]

is that the best you pair have got ??

SX

[AC]

And in case you already forgot what stories I'm talking about it's these stories.

No hysterical story, just a factual statement about something which is highly probable to happen.

Apparently some of us are better than others at looking at Putin's words and actions and predicting with confidence what his next move will be.

Let's say I'm correct and you buy me a beer if I ever make it to Chicago.  (?)

[lordtiberius]

Yeah, yeah, so goes your bravado once more.  When do you leave for the front line?

What are you, Audie Murphy?

All anyone here wants to do is Arm The Ukrainians.  How you go to arming the Ukrainians to leaving for the front is not logical . . .

SX is the biggest coward on the board....

This is disgusting.  Since when did this forum become a dumping ground for insults?  An outrageous TOS violation that used to get men moderated . . .WTF?

That probably figures into Obama's de-emphasis in getting involved in some of these foreign issues. 

another Obama supporter

[fathertime]

is that the best you pair have got ??

SX

Cowardly response...not surprised


It isn't supposed to be a big pissing contest.  You have continually shown no respect for other viewpoints, it is easy to define you for what you are....a yellow foreigner not standing up for what he purports to believe in...instead calling on other nations young people to take up the fight. Given your demands you have no excuse why aren't you in Ukraine, piling sandbags, or putting up barbed wire?   All talk..no action.  Trembling under the bed hoping the 'world police' will do your dirty work. 


Our president has every right (and responsibility) to be reticent about getting us involved in a potentially life altering battle, despite the foreign peanut gallery here making demands he act the way they want him to act.   


Fathertime!   

[southernX]

ft,

what your still squealing on here ?


SX

[lordtiberius]

I just reported to the moderator evidence of insults.  Anyone want to guess who I am referring to?

[fathertime]

ft,

what your still squealing on here ?


SX

awful weak suddenly without your posse of backups....it is comparable to the Australian response to the crisis...just waiting to be rescued/backed up....like a damsel in distress.     



 

[fathertime]

I just reported to the moderator evidence of insults.  Anyone want to guess who I am referring to?

Excellent job! 


Fathertime!   

[Muzh]

It's a European problem.  This isn't rocket science.  The US, Britain and EU should have enough evidence to prove Russia has invaded Ukraine.  Yet there is no proclamation here that Russia has invaded.  Dish out the evidence so the budapest agreement can be enacted upon.

Er..., ahem.


The European Union has.


http://www.europarl.europa.eu/sides/getDoc.do?type=TA&reference=P7-TA-2014-0248&language=EN


There have been European leaders that have censured Putin for destabilizing the New World Order as they were referring to the Budapest Memorandum.


Although, I agree that it is a European problem right now.

[lordtiberius]

Agree.  Most the victims are white Christians.  Who cares right?

[Muzh]

Agree.  Most the victims are white Christians.  Who cares right?

What's the matter sweetheart? I notice a hint of anger. What's bothering you?

[lordtiberius]

Why don't you pick up the phone and find out.

[Muzh]

Why don't you pick up the phone and find out.