Trenchcoat's Further Theories on, and Experiences of, Dating in the FSU

[ML]

In any case the bluntness that stopped me in my tracks and made me laugh the most is when a FSW refuses to go in a hotel as she will be seen as a prostitute! Lol. Nothing has made me laugh so much as when that one pops up, gobsmackingly blunt, lol.

That has nothing to do with bluntness.

Bluntness is rudeness.

Nothing blunt or rude about saying you don't want to be seen as a prostitute.

[ML]

And, by the way, my wife does not practice bluntness or rudeness.

But I saw much of it with other Ukrainians, and Russians in particular.

[Boethius]

Beel, I don't like when you do X or say Y. 

Not rude, not sugar coated and now I know.
I prefer that to: Bill if you loved me you would know.
I f#cking hate that.

I'm not certain that's even blunt.  I don't expect my spouse to be a mind reader.  I doubt that's the way most American women communicate.

[Trenchcoat]

That has nothing to do with bluntness.

Bluntness is rudeness.

Nothing blunt or rude about saying you don't want to be seen as a prostitute.

It's a hotel not a brothel lol.

Seriously though it's more the way it's said, possibly it may be down to translation. The Russian language seems to be more direct overall with one word covering several variations of a word in English. We seem to articulate slight differences in meaning and to us those slight differences can mean a lot.

Other than that I think in the west a lot of women are more coy unless you go into very working class areas. For example in the hotel & prostitute response a western woman is probably less likely to come out with it full on like that. They are likely to say something like, "I don't think it would be appropriate to be at a hotel whilst not being married it may give off not a good impression". I don't think many western woman would want to give rise to the shocker that she thinks she may look like a prostitute not unless it was a cheap motel in the US of course.

[ML]

The hotel thing for women in FSU has some historical background which I don't know completely and don't desire to spend time investigating it.

But in simple terms going into a hotel with a man other than husband had some bad connotations in FSU.

The same existed in USA up until some time point . . . probably 1960s when increased sexual freedom started for women.

I experienced a spectrum in FSU.

One woman refused to even step into lobby of a 4 star hotel in Kyiv where I went to retrieve a copy of the Kyiv Times newspaper.  She had led a relatively sheltered life and I was the first western man she had dated.

Another woman went right up to check-in desk with me, negotiated price for a room, and marched right up to my room carrying one of my small bags.  This was accompanied by rather shocked look on faces of check-in people.
10 minutes later we both came back down and headed out to eat.
She picked me up 3 times later for dates (she had a car), but never once stayed the night, and the sex we had later all occurred at her house.

This latter woman had travelled extensively throughout FSU and many western European countries (in 1990s) as a representative for a clothing business.

So a lot depends on sophistication and experience (not hooker experience) of the woman.

As another note:  The latter woman, upon delivering me to airport, declined my suggestion that we meet again during another trip.  She said it would be 'boring.'  Meaning I was boring.  So I guess she had met a lot of exciting men on her trips around Europe.

She was the only woman who ever said I was boring, although some (many) might have said it.

As more full disclosure:  Only one woman out of very, very many told me I wasn't good at sex.
And she was right that things didn't go well; but it was because she controlled everything and I wasn't able to demonstrate my true talents.   She  also told me that I should be honored to be with such a beautiful woman.  But actually she was only about 7 in face; although body was a 9.

[2tallbill]

I'm not certain that's even blunt.  I don't expect my spouse to be a mind reader.  I doubt that's the way most American women communicate.

I have been given the silent treatment hundreds of times when I didn't even
know what they were mad about. I've been given the silent treatment maybe
twice maybe three times with FSUW and ALWAYS I knew what it was about.

I dumped my last American girl friend when she called me on the phone to
give me the silent treatment.

[Trenchcoat]

I have been given the silent treatment hundreds of times when I didn't even
know what they were mad about. I've been given the silent treatment maybe
twice maybe three times with FSUW and ALWAYS I knew what it was about.

I dumped my last American girl friend when she called me on the phone to
give me the silent treatment.

Don't you know you are supposed to guess

[2tallbill]

Don't you know you are supposed to guess

Western women operational theory is that if you loved them you would know.

FSUW (for the most part) believe that men are simple creatures and that men
can't read minds. Therefore if they want something from you, they better tell
you about it.

[Boethius]

There are over 250 million women in the Western world.  They don't all think the same way.  I, personally, have never believed my husband should "know" what I think.  I am fairly certain I'm not unique in this. 

[2tallbill]

There are over 250 million women in the Western world.  They don't all think the same way.  I, personally, have never believed my husband should "know" what I think.  I am fairly certain I'm not unique in this.

Boe,

You are what's known as a keeper. I am also fairly certain that there are
many others who think as you do. HOWEVER, there are plenty who expect
men to be at least partial mind readers.

There is a book called Men are from Mars that explains a number of things
including the concept that I described. If it was a rare thing then I doubt it
would have been in the book that sold over 15 million copies. The book has
been criticized for placing human psychology into stereotypes

Excerpt story (there are many)
A man and a woman are driving down the street. The woman points at the ice
cream store and says “look! The ice cream store is open.” The man says “yes,
it is,” and keeps driving. Later that evening, the woman is upset and asks
“why didn’t you stop for ice cream when I asked?” The man is confused and
says, “I never heard you ask to stop for ice cream.”

It is a rather small, and rather inconsequential example, but it is one that many
people in male/female relationships can relate to.

What Went Wrong?

Both parties thought they said and heard different things in the same conversation.
This is one of the reasons why communication tends to be more effective when
women are more direct.

http://blog.mindvalley.com/men-are-from-mars-women-are-from-venus/

[ML]

Excerpt story (there are many)
A man and a woman are driving down the street. The woman points at the ice
cream store and says “look! The ice cream store is open.” The man says “yes,
it is,” and keeps driving. Later that evening, the woman is upset and asks
“why didn’t you stop for ice cream when I asked?” The man is confused and
says, “I never heard you ask to stop for ice cream.”

Reminds me (OK a stretch) of this story.

12 year old girl tells her father she is angry at him because she just found out he has been lying to her and siblings for several years.

Father: What are you talking about ?

Daughter: It was not true when you told us that if the Ice Cream truck played music, it meant it was all out of ice cream.

[Grumpy]

There are women who will give you the silent treatment.
There are women you wish would "shut the heck up".
There are women who can moderate between the extremes.

If you are really lucky, you might find one that knows when to speak up and when to shut up.
I am probably being optimistic.

[ML]

Both parties thought they said and heard different things in the same conversation.
This is one of the reasons why communication tends to be more effective when
women are more direct.

Here you are confusing directness/bluntness/rudeness.

A woman or man saying, "I would like to have some ice cream," is not an example of the directness/bluntness that I called rudeness.

An example: Is that the nicest car you can afford?

FSUW apologists call this directness.

It is rudeness.

Another example:  That scar on your face is very ugly.

In USA, no one (except maybe those in the hood) would make that comment past 6th grade or so.

[2tallbill]

Here you are confusing directness/bluntness/rudeness.

A woman or man saying, "I would like to have some ice cream," is not an example of the directness/bluntness that I called rudeness.

An example: Is that the nicest car you can afford?

FSUW apologists call this directness.

It is rudeness.

Another example:  That scar on your face is very ugly.

In USA, no one (except maybe those in the hood) would make that comment past 6th grade or so.

I want to make sure that I understand what you are saying.

Are you implying that I don't know the difference between being frank or direct with
rudeness?

[ML]

I want to make sure that I understand what you are saying.

Are you implying that I don't know the difference between being frank or direct with
rudeness?

I am just giving my examples of clarification for whomever can benefit.  :-)

[GQBlues]

I honestly believe the absence, lack of, or the deterioration of communication in a relationship is a sign of an unfolding disenchantment in a relationship. I've seen these happen from both my male and female friends ad nauseum when they go through these break-ups.

Everything is hunky-dory in the beginning, they f@#k like rabbits but then when that intensified sexual appetite starts to wane, the Disneyland behavior starts to get introduce in the relationship. Something starts to be into the 'just-not-good-enough' syndrome. Soon after, both develop certain amount of insecurities within the relationship, which usually results in both deflecting the fault at each other.

IN the end, it's never really about he/she wasn't communicating, it really is about he/she simply stopped trying to listen/understand the way he/she took the time before during that magical period where certain imperfections (that are now glaringly HUGE and obvious) were sources of endearment, or even actual annoying habits that were once considered 'cute', is now over-bearing.

No one likes knowing they failed at anything. Much less live it. So instead of accepting break-ups are at times something that just needs to happen between people, they instead jump through hoops trying to point out all these 'ills' with the person they held so dear not too long ago, if not, the relationship/s altogether. People are so frail and fragile emotionally, many of them needs instant redemption and jump right into another emotional net we call a 'rebound'.

I use to tell my boys, especially at our younger years, get your juices out to as many different women as you can before jumping into 'love' whatever that was then. I don't care who she is/was, or how pretty/gorgeous/kind/sweetheart/darling/yada the gal is - in a relatively short time you'll start to hate life because 'she started to stop communicating with you, she started not to make sense anymore, she started bitching at you, she -fill-in-the-blank- here, etc...

What's even worse than this is convincing yourself that your new gal is the exact opposite of the ol' nasty lady you once kissed the ground she walked on in an attempt to find peace in your mind, falsely vindicated that *it was never really your fault, and you absolutely had no part in the demise of those failed relationships in the past*.

You see this play out here on this board plenty of times.

Apply, lather, rinse, repeat.

*YOUR* relationship with someone is solely about how *you* relate/d to that person.

[Trenchcoat]

Well recent latest here in the UK support for Scottish Independence is apparently no longer a majority in favour:

http://www.scotsman.com/news/opinion/columnists/scottish-election-2021-the-snp-are-backpedalling-on-independence-as-economic-case-falls-apart-and-public-wants-focus-on-covid-recovery-murdo-fraser-3215400

I told Mobers this would happen a while ago after the Brexit Referendum so it's a shame he's no longer around on here for me to tell him I was right, although perhaps still looking in hmmmn 

Essentially Scots see many negatives, as predicted, a hard border with England requiring Passports, trade problems with England - 'their' largest trading partner having to adopt the Euro in rejoining the EU and of course being left behind England/the UK in its vaccination drive as it would then if rejoining the EU be a part of the EU Vaccination program and we all know how well that is going.

With upcoming Scottish Parliamentary Elections on 6th May it's not looking good for the SNP, they could lose their overall majority. Sturgeon knows she is now in trouble on these issues which is why she wanted another independence vote before we left the EU. Essentially the longer that it goes since we have left the EU the less and less reason and logic there is for Scotland going independent of England. The more time that passes the more Scottish people will see this and the more they will identify with the UK rather than the EU.

So the upcoming Welsh & Scottish Elections could for a chance prove interesting.

Elsewhere, in the UK as a whole there seems to be a lack of property to buy as a whole. It's unsure if this is a short term glitch dye to the virus or a case that property has literally 'run out' with supply of housing having all been taken up. The fear that we have been nearing reaching the limit on housing has been present for a fair few years now and looked likely to happen at some point, whether that is now who knows. In Wales there has even been queuing overnight outside an Estate Agent's from people wanting to sign up to buy new build property that hasn't even been built yet!

Supplies of sand & cement have continued to be in high demand in DIY stores across most of the country. Last weekend I popped into a local DIY store and saw one guy walk his huge fat woman around, seconds after another guy with another huge fat woman rounded past me also following on from the first. Two big old barges, kind of made me feel like being in the Suez Canal, fortunately neither got stuck lol

[ML]

Last weekend I popped into a local DIY store and saw one guy walk his huge fat woman around, seconds after another guy with another huge fat woman rounded past me also following on from the first. Two big old barges, kind of made me feel like being in the Suez Canal, fortunately neither got stuck lol

I see this at the high school level.

Normal sized guys dating overweight gals.

For a long time I couldn't understand this.

But then I realized that overweight teenage girls is more the norm these days; guys have grown up with this, and it seems normal to them.

Yes, there are overweight teenage boys also; but not proportionally  as much as with girls.

[Grumpy]

Pro Tip;
You get more for your money with the large "value" size.     

[ML]

I have had this phobia about 'fat' women starting at very early age; probably 11 or 12.
First recollection was concerning a couple of my aunts.
Fat is in the genes of my Mother's side of my heritage.
On my Father's side, not overall fat, just beer bellies small and large.

Interesting that FSU women didn't/don't seem to mind my beer belly.

[BillyB]

I know three guys who went to Vietnam the same time. As they walked down the sidewalk, the oldest and fattest man got the lion's share of the attention. Girls would rub his belly and call him "Happy Budda". They seriously thought the fat guy was rich and a big boss because he eats well.

[Trenchcoat]

I know three guys who went to Vietnam the same time. As they walked down the sidewalk, the oldest and fattest man got the lion's share of the attention. Girls would rub his belly and call him "Happy Budda". They seriously thought the fat guy was rich and a big boss because he eats well.

Lol, indeed apparently back around Georgian times in Europe someone who was fat was seen as wealthy as it tended to be the case that you would need to be to get like that. These days it tends not to be seen that way in the west as a lot of fatty food is also among the cheapest food. That and you don't need to be especially rich if overeating on food though it will cost you more of course.

Kind of funny how a negative somewhere can be a positive elsewhere. I don't think I'll go down that route though, lol.

[Trenchcoat]

I have had this phobia about 'fat' women starting at very early age; probably 11 or 12.
First recollection was concerning a couple of my aunts.
Fat is in the genes of my Mother's side of my heritage.
On my Father's side, not overall fat, just beer bellies small and large.

Interesting that FSU women didn't/don't seem to mind my beer belly.

Not sure about phobia, but I along with a lot of other guys think look at fat women and well it's a very weird look. I cant find it aesthetically pleasing in any way and couldn't feel comfortable with it on a girl or greeting close to one. I find it just a very strange look.

[Trenchcoat]

I see this at the high school level.

Normal sized guys dating overweight gals.

For a long time I couldn't understand this.

But then I realized that overweight teenage girls is more the norm these days; guys have grown up with this, and it seems normal to them.

Yes, there are overweight teenage boys also; but not proportionally  as much as with girls.

Yeah I've seen that in some of the social housing areas here in the UK. There fat girls/women are pretty common, I spoke to one guy about it who lives in such an area a few years ago, he didn't seem to have much of an issue about it and found it surprising I did. So I guess for a lot of guys there it becomes the norm. Their mothers may be fat, sisters, other women they see, girls at school, etc. Even still a fair number of thinner girls in those areas, I would say at least 50 percent so I still sometimes wonder why some guys get with the fat women when there are those around not so.

[John Gaunt]

I don’t recognise the portrait of the UK painted by TC.
I guess he moves in a different social circle, populated by ‘fatties’ from social housing sinks.
Most of the people I know have attractive spouses or partners who look after themselves and eat well balanced diets.