Natasha K*** - a "scammer" ?!?

[msmob]

Hi all

I'm writing in defence of an honest Belarus women who has been defamed on the site

[Edit to remove URL. Scammer listing removed]

I am a happliy married man ( to a Russian lady) but I KNOW her and KNOW this post to be devoid of fact.

I can confirm that she NEVER asked me for a penny/ cent and when we talked about meeting in a third country she insisted on paying.

The ironic thing is that she is a member of Elenas Models ( a very good site) which checks out ladies before letting them join ..

[Edited to remove URL to protect lady's identity]

She posts photos here that in my opinion are not "flattering", as she says seeks as man who will be interested in how she thinks and acts, rather than how she looks, and doesn't lie about her age.. she doesn't NEED to !!





I hope the admin of this site will investigate who is "fibbing" here and remove the offending posts.

[Admin]

Hi all

I'm writing in defence of an honest Belarus women who has been defamed on the site

[URL with name removed]

I am a happliy married man ( to a Russian lady) but I KNOW her and KNOW this post to be devoid of fact.

I can confirm that she NEVER asked me for a penny/ cent and when we talked about meeting in a third country she insisted on paying.

The ironic thing is that she is a member of Elenas Models ( a very good site) which checks out ladies before letting them join ..

[URL removed]

She posts photos here that in my opinion are not "flattering", as she says seeks as man who will be interested in how she thinks and acts, rather than how she looks, and doesn't lie about her age.. she doesn't NEED to !!





I hope the admin of this site will investigate who is "fibbing" here and remove the offending posts.

I am confused.

Your post says the lady in question is posted as a scammer at RussianScamCheck,org. You then ask me (Admin) to investigate and remove offending posts.

If there are posts at RWD which you believe are incorrect, please use the 'Report to Moderator' feature, and we will address your concerns.

If your primary concern is over the "scammer" label from RussianScamCheck, you should contact them to ask them to address your concern. Damien from RussianScamCheck is one of our members(username -- antiscam_advise), and I think you will find him a reasonable person who will listen to your concerns. Send him a PM, or use the email feature.

- Dan

[antiscam_advise]

We can certainly investigate further.
Our Scam list is compiled from user submissions as well as from our own scam investigations (scam check deliveries).
This one was submitted by the user.

She is not listed with us only, but also with other antiscam websites:
http://www.antiscam.net/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=580

We remove such submissions in the one of the following cases:
1). Lady contacts us herself with her phone number and address provided in email, so we can validate this data.
2). Person interested in removal can order Scam Check service, and if check is negative - we will remove her permanently.

With respect,

Damien
admin@russianscamcheck.org
http://www.russianscamcheck.org

Hi all

I'm writing in defence of an honest Belarus women who has been defamed on the site

http://www.russianscamcheck.org/russian-bride-scam/Natasha_Klinova.shtml

I am a happliy married man ( to a Russian lady) but I KNOW her and KNOW this post to be devoid of fact.

I can confirm that she NEVER asked me for a penny/ cent and when we talked about meeting in a third country she insisted on paying.

The ironic thing is that she is a member of Elenas Models ( a very good site) which checks out ladies before letting them join ..

http://www.elenasmodels.com/index.php?ap=8432176

She posts photos here that in my opinion are not "flattering", as she says seeks as man who will be interested in how she thinks and acts, rather than how she looks, and doesn't lie about her age.. she doesn't NEED to !!





I hope the admin of this site will investigate who is "fibbing" here and remove the offending posts.

[BillyB]

She is not listed with us only, but also with other antiscam websites:
http://www.antiscam.net/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=580

Damien, the guy who made a comment at your site is the same guy who made a comment at that site too. I don't know if the woman in question is a scammer or not but I know the guy who made those comments is a hamburger short of a happy meal. Here's a few quotes of his.

" She demanded over €1500 in order to come to the UK . I refused and when I did so she wrote a tissue of lies on a webiste about me. and said she would black mail me further if I did not come or send her money for to visit me . she continued to badger me to visit her ... I think it is becoming clear that she is a bit unstable."


Then he goes on to say he went to visit her after that crap and she took money from him on his visit. How did she do that without him handing the money to her? Dummy.

"Various lies she had told through the previous 3 months were begining to come to light, however we continued and perhaps naively I eventually went to visit her in August ... as you can guess the visit did not go well, I was constantly badgered for money

I did not submit to her demands and of course this did not please her... I left but she did take money from me .. after the trip she continues to blackmail through various sites."


I think the guy is just angry he didn't get any action on his visit to the lady.

[wiz]

Tottally unbelievable

Somebody accuses a woman as a scammer writing all that B*snip* on his message.....the 2 sites list the woman, (Looks automatically) without reading his comments and now a 3rd person comes here posting an incomprehensible message, without giving any specific information and of course posting her photo here?

Look the title of this thread:

[Edited to remove personal information]

A positive statement with a twist ..........I wonder what is really going on?

Why this poster will involve RWD in this matter?

Billy you are absolutely right.....he didn't get his legover and now is accusing her as a scammer! I also think the poster msmob is the same person who accused her as a scammer...check his style of writing! I think he is here just to give more publicity to his accussations.

Damian from Scamcheck with his comments implied that.....any idiot can post on his site accusations for a woman been a scammer and then the woman must contact him first and when he makes a check then he will remove her.

If a woman is not aware that she is accused of been a scammer how could she act?
 
If anybody else asks for her to be checked and removed must pay.

Nice and honest policy and he expects us to respect and trust his site!

Nice excuse that she is listed also in another site by the same person but in his site he does not even post the message from the accuser!

In my view the whole thing stinks..........

BillyB

I am going to visit those 2 responsible and honest ANTI-SCAMMER SITES and write that you have scammed every Russian woman you met........so you must change your name and call yourself Billy the scammer..............

[wxman]

He has one post on RWD and one post on this site:

http://www.antiscam.net/modules.php?name=Forums&file=viewtopic&t=925

[wiz]

He has one post on RWD and one post on this site:

http://www.antiscam.net/modules.php?name=Forums&file=viewtopic&t=925

I spend a little of time surfing those 2 sites....and to be honest I don't think much about the way they handle serious accussations about scammers.

They are just profit making sites without many checks and balances for accurate information.
 

[msmob]

Hi !

Thanks for the informative reply.. I will get Nat to revert to you in the manner suggested in number 1

Mark

We can certainly investigate further.
Our Scam list is compiled from user submissions as well as from our own scam investigations (scam check deliveries).
This one was submitted by the user.

She is not listed with us only, but also with other antiscam websites:
http://www.antiscam.net/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=580

We remove such submissions in the one of the following cases:
1). Lady contacts us herself with her phone number and address provided in email, so we can validate this data.
2). Person interested in removal can order Scam Check service, and if check is negative - we will remove her permanently.

With respect,

Damien
admin@russianscamcheck.org
http://www.russianscamcheck.org

[msmob]

Hi,

Thanks for taking the trouble to reply... I see that Damien has kindly replied.

Mark

I am confused.

Your post says the lady in question is posted as a scammer at RussianScamCheck,org. You then ask me (Admin) to investigate and remove offending posts.

If there are posts at RWD which you believe are incorrect, please use the 'Report to Moderator' feature, and we will address your concerns.

If your primary concern is over the "scammer" label from RussianScamCheck, you should contact them to ask them to address your concern. Damien from RussianScamCheck is one of our members(username -- antiscam_advise), and I think you will find him a reasonable person who will listen to your concerns. Send him a PM, or use the email feature.

- Dan

[msmob]

Dear Wiz,

I'm very sorry my message ws incomprehensible !

As you can see thewre may now be a way forward and we should leave it to that method to decide the truth.

As to WHY RWD is involved ?


I do not know of the relationship, but if you follow a link from the Scanmmer advisory site.. with no method of input there, one sees a link re Scammers on this forum !

If I havew offended you or anyone I'm sorry, but I hope you'll understand that I was merely trying to get someone's attention re the defamation...

Hope things will be cleared up, now

Mark

Tottally unbelievable

Somebody accuses a woman as a scammer writing all that B*snip* on his message.....the 2 sites list the woman, (Looks automatically) without reading his comments and now a 3rd person comes here posting an incomprehensible message, without giving any specific information and of course posting her photo here?

Look the title of this thread:

[Name removed]

A positive statement with a twist ..........I wonder what is really going on?

Why this poster will involve RWD in this matter?

Billy you are absolutely right.....he didn't get his legover and now is accusing her as a scammer! I also think the poster msmob is the same person who accused her as a scammer...check his style of writing! I think he is here just to give more publicity to his accussations.

Damian from Scamcheck with his comments implied that.....any idiot can post on his site accusations for a woman been a scammer and then the woman must contact him first and when he makes a check then he will remove her.

If a woman is not aware that she is accused of been a scammer how could she act?
 
If anybody else asks for her to be checked and removed must pay.

Nice and honest policy and he expects us to respect and trust his site!

Nice excuse that she is listed also in another site by the same person but in his site he does not even post the message from the accuser!

In my view the whole thing stinks..........

BillyB

I am going to visit those 2 responsible and honest ANTI-SCAMMER SITES and write that you have scammed every Russian woman you met........so you must change your name and call yourself Billy the scammer..............

[msmob]

I also think the poster msmob is the same person who accused her as a scammer...check his style of writing! I think he is here just to give more publicity to his accussations.

OMG

Just read the rest of your comments...

1/ Agree re the fact that an innocent person might need to pay to clear their name... ??

2/ I can ABSOLUTELY prove you're WAY off the mark, re your assertion that I'm the guy who posted the crap about Nat..

So, if you wish I can send you a link via pm to our wedding day, etc on a flickr web site and a photo of the "gentleman " accusing Nat with HER.. in Belarus
He looks like THIS ...

Don't you think, that if we were one and the same, the "gentleman" would write to admin and quietly assk them to remove the post ? !!

My God, I didn't realise I'd have to "defend" myself, too



Take Care

Mark





Hope that clears that one up !!!

[wiz]

Mark

You do not post links to any photos without the permission of the owner therefore the adm has removed the links (correctly) from your post.

Yes I saw also the link to the RWD scammers section.........and I could not understand also why?

Anyway now you have a way to address this problem.

I have expressed my opinion earlier about the other sites and you have to admit that the writing in that scammmers site from the accuser is very similar to your own style, so there is the confusion.

Wish you best of luck.

[Admin]

Mark

You do not post links to any photos without the permission of the owner therefore the adm has removed the links (correctly) from your post.

Yes I saw also the link to the RWD scammers section.........and I could not understand also why?

Anyway now you have a way to address this problem.

I have expressed my opinion earlier about the other sites and you have to admit that the writing in that scammmers site from the accuser is very similar to your own style, so there is the confusion.

Wish you best of luck.

I am not sure which link to RWD you are referring - BUT - the relationship between RussianScamCheck.org, and RWD, was established a very long time ago - probably two years or more. For those who may not recall, Damien came onto RWD when they were first starting out, and asked for feedback and guidance from our members. He appeared then, and still appears now, to be a legitimate businessman who is sincerely interested in providing a quality service.

RWD is the *only* forum which is included among their "Verified Partner List", and I believe it is due to Damien recognizing that RWD provides a platform of unbiased and honest reporting of scams and scammers.

The one thing I wish we would see more of - are the type of posts which Mark brought to our attention. When any kind of blacklist is published, there is the possibility of injuring an innocent. I would like to see more people telling us of those ladies who are blacklisted somewhere - who they believe should NOT be blacklisted - and why.

I feel quite confident that Damian and RSC will respond appropriately. I am not so sure other blacklist sites would respond appropriately - but in any case, any person whose name appears wrongly on a blacklist should have the option to provide THEIR side of the story.

I hope we will see more posts like the one Mark brought us.

- Dan

[Jack]

A few questions to you Damien.

Will you add a scammer to your site from one man's report?


Did you add this woman Natasha K. from this one man, Ham's, report?

If this is the same Ham who has posted on various discussion boards over the last 4-5 years he is one nut.  If you are posting this women from this one man's report, then I think you are making a big mistake.

And this is one of the problems any anti-scam site will have by posting a woman from a single report.  There are so many men who are upset that a good woman has rejected them that he will call her a scammer and some anti-scam sites will add this woman as a scammer.  This is why I think NO site should add a woman as a scammer from a single report unless the evidence is overwhelming.

[wiz]

Dan

RWD is the *only* forum which is included among their "Verified Partner List", and I believe it is due to Damien recognizing that RWD provides a platform of unbiased and honest reporting of scams and scammers.

Actually Damien by recognizing and including RWD in their “Verified Partner’s List" in his site, is taking advantage of the fact that RWD provides a platform of unbiased and honest reporting of scam and scammers, thus adding respectability to his business.

Innocent until proven guilty is something that the law here in UK recognizes and that should apply for these women  reported in his and other anti-scammer sites. You don’t write that a woman, in this case Natasha. K, is a scammer without checking the facts reported.

Would RWD permit such reporting about this woman that she is a scammer without complete and well documented facts.? Personally I don’t think so!

Read what is written there:

Russian Scam Check

Reported Story:

This is a very nasty piece of work.. she is very intelligent and well read. She is open to direct blackmail and threatens to expose you in a tissue of lies.. she is really only interested in money, very unstable, probably mentally ill.

Also on ANTISCAM

http://www.antiscam.net/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=580&mode=&order=0&thold=0

Would anybody on RWD allow such comments reported by one man to stay unchallenged here?

I don’t think so.

Any idiot who would post such ridiculous comments about a Russian woman here would have been taken apart by the knowledgeable members of this board and would have been running for cover. If RWD is the biggest and more respected forum in the small world of the Russian Dating scene, is because of its members. These other sites don’t show the sensitivity and respect to RW which is been shown over here and are making money by relying in one person’s comments.

Sorry but Jack is absolutely right questioning Damien for his practices and sofar despite that it has come to Damien’s attention this discrepancy no action has been taken to unlist this woman, until more compelling evidence have been presented or she has been investigated fully.

Innocent until proven guilty should override everything and be the Normal practice.

I think RWD is following this Normal practice.

   
MARK

Write to me the info please at: wiz@ukfun.com
Thanks.

[rose]

Hello, everybody!
I hope everyone is doing fine here.
I wanted to say a couple of words about this topic, and I hope that those, who know me from a year ago will hear what I'm saying.
I need to mention that during last 2-3 days (already lost count) I actively participated at antidate, investigating the real story of Natasha.
She mentioned this guy several times. For example, she wrote once that he sent to her video of his dick. She got really upset, but he stuck to her and practically bagged not to break up communication. When she openly told him that she is not interested in him, he again bagged her to stay friends.
I read some of there conversations when I wanted to understand if she is honest. This guy was really stingy, and after the visit to Minsk he wrote her that since her daughter is interested in learning English he can send her old Times magazines. She took it as an insult. I don't know guys maybe there are guys among you who think that it's ok to give as a present a bunch of old magazines, but I personally wouldn't appreciate such present. So, she got pissed off, I remind you that she tried to end this relationships, but he stuck to her and wouldn't let her go. So, on his suggestion about magazines (I remind you she is a very proud person who was insulted as if she was poor) she wrote that other guys if they give gifts, those gifts are in $100-150 range. She was hurt, and her reaction was to hurt back by stating that he was stingy, and by showing him that she has other admirers. This particular incident he used to claim her as a scammer. I personally read that conversation, and since I know Russian and English, I could see that the goal of that statement was to hurt him( what is not good, but remember she felt insulted), and not to make him to give her some money. Her English is far from being ok, as I understand she uses translator. The construction of phrase shows that it wasn't meant to  ask for money, it was something more like: "take you magazine and stick them into your ass". Well, this girl has an attitude sometimes, but if it would happen to me I'd also would be pissed off.
It is interesting that just a day before he posted her as a scammer in one of the discussions we talked about presents and money that men give their ladies. She clearly stated that she doesn't approve those who take money from men.
You know, if she would someone who doesn't write often I would think differently, but I read a lot of her posts, and I strongly believe that she is a genuine person who values her reputation, who doesn't approve those women who like to travel on account of men. I just don't believe that she can be so different. She is one of most active participants of all kind of discussions, and my experience tells me that im someone is dishonest, sooner or later, one phrase, one single post can show the true face. In this particular situation, I repeat, I strongly believe that she is genuine.
Moreover, from what I know I think that this guy, being upset that she broke up with him, decided to make her life miserable.

[rose]

I think that he decided if she can't be his, she will not be anyone's.
I believe that this is a great example of revenge. BTW, I'm not sure yet, but it seems that this guy is married.
I decided to write here because I respect this forum and because I believe that you guys really try to look in the depth of the problem on many issues.
This is exactly the situation when before posting someone the person who posts need to show proofs of his accusations. And he doesn't provide with any proofs. All what he does - he runs from site to site and posts her as a scammer. The girl is heartbroken, according to her he hurt her in her weak place - her dignity.
I tried to describe the situation as neutral as I could. But I came to the conclusion that she is guilty only in 2 things: she has too high pride and in that particular situation she was short tempered. The accusations in scamming are scam itself, because now he waits when she come to him to ask him to remove her from all those sites. He wants control over her.

[BillyB]

Rose, it's been a long time since I've seen you here. Where have you been?

I too think the guy is crazy based on his words at the anti scam sites. But the lady in question may be genuine as you say but I think it was crazy for her too to meet the guy after he sent her a video of his dick. Most normal RW looking for marriage will not waste their time with men who shows off his dick.

[wxman]

Rose,

I have always disliked sites that allow people to make accusations and call people scammers. But it works both ways. Is this guy listed as a scammer on anti-date because of her word? Seems like they are both airing out their laundry, and for all we know, both could be right, both could be wrong or something in between.

I do not like sites that allow men to call women scammers without any type of proof other than their word. Same goes for sites that allow women to do this.

My personal belief is that those types of sites are more of a disservice than a service. They all seem to perpetuate women bashing or men bashing from spiteful people.

[rose]

Rose, it's been a long time since I've seen you here. Where have you been?

I too think the guy is crazy based on his words at the anti scam sites. But the lady in question may be genuine as you say but I think it was crazy for her too to meet the guy after he sent her a video of his dick. Most normal RW looking for marriage will not waste their time with men who shows off his dick.

Well, we all make mistakes and then pay big price. When girls on antidate confronted her with the same question (don't think we didn't support every single woman just because she is from FSU, we try to look into the situation and honestly analyse it) she said that he sent her e-mails, sms, I don't remeber if he called her; he apologized, and bagged not to break up. She kinda didn't want him, but decided to give him a second chance.

[rose]

I do not like sites that allow men to call women scammers without any type of proof other than their word. Same goes for sites that allow women to do this.

As far as I know, although proofs are not posted because sometimes they are too personal, Kvinna requests to send her the proof by e-mail before posting in their black list.
As an example I'll tell you this: about 2 weeks ago some lady wanted to put a guy in the black list. She wrote heartbreaking story and at first we were sorry for her. But then came the guy and told absolutely different story. We kept questioning this woman, and the uncomfortable for her truth came out. As the result, the guy wasn't posted, and the lady run away to look for the support somewhere else.

Well, back to this lady. Dan, is she still on the scammers list at the site affiliated with this forum?

[wxman]

I hope both of them get pulled from the scammer lists. These two people need keep their lovers spat private. Lovers spats are usually ugly and dirty and once they start, it only gets worse with time. He had no right posting about her. Her reaction is understandable. Unfortunately, this is now going to turn this into a war of words between the two, aired out over the internet for all to see.  2 adults acting like children. One trying to top the other with even worse allegations to come. Very sad indeed.

[rose]

I hope both of them get pulled from the scammer lists. These two people need keep their lovers spat private. Lovers spats are usually ugly and dirty and once they start, it only gets worse with time. He had no right posting about her. Her reaction is understandable. Unfortunately, this is now going to turn this into a war of words between the two, aired out over the internet for all to see.  2 adults acting like children. One trying to top the other with even worse allegations to come. Very sad indeed.

I'm shocked. She can show the proof, but it seems the sites don't care about proofs. Imagine, you find one day yourself there. What would you do? Wouldn't you try to get back your honest name? And what about the future? If she is looking for a husband it means that man will see her at the scammlist will not write to her? How would you feel?

I'm glad I'm not in a search! There so many sick people these days just look for a chance to play their wicked games with people.

P.S. All what I write here is my personal opinion.

[Kuna]

Rose,

I've read your posts before and respect your opinion. From what you're said here the woman is guilty of foolish behaviour rather than a common scam. 

You've made an important point about language and misinterpreting what a persons intentions were. 

I have no respect for anti-date and their position on "scammers" though because I understand 2TallBill is still listed as some sort of "scammer" because he proudly posted photos of some ladies he met on a trip and said positive things about them.  I wonder if Kvinna and crew tried to even understand what his intentions were at the time.

This whole process of listing "suspect people" on web sites is a risky business and I wish there were a simple answer that protected both men and women.  Evidently, the only thing that seems to happen is genuine people are slandered and reports of REAL scammers are ignored.

Best of luck to this lady... I hope she clears her name.  Perhaps anti-date can take a moment to reflect on it's own behaviour at the same time.

Kuna

p.s. Why any woman would meet someone that had sent inappropriate photos is beyond me.  Her pride should have got in the way of her decision to meet him rather than pride causing her to try to hurt the man over something as stupid as his offer to send magazines.  Hopefully she'll also take some time to reflect on her foolish decision to meet him in the first place and other will make better decisions in future too!

[wxman]

Rose,

I am not disagreeing with you. What he did was wrong. If what she says is true, her name should be removed from those sites immediately. I agree with you 100%. His name should also be removed. They are not scammers. I understand her trying to clear her name as she has been defamed. The best way is to get the sites to remove her name. She should take the high road. By responding on another site about him is not the way to clear her name. The only way to clear her name is by getting these scam sites to remove her name.