Newt or Mitt VS Obama. Can either of 'em beat him?

[Gator]

Isn't it kind of sad that any form of government economic stimulus immediately results in higher oil prices, lining the pockets of speculators and big oil from those who pay at the pump?

Is that not counter productive?  Talk about taking food out of a baby's mouth....

That is an interesting spin.  In a stronger economy, higher energy prices will result from increased demand.  So you are against a stronger economy?   Nose..... spite.......face
 
BTW, in America we have the capability to be oil and gas self-subsistent in 10 years.    However, the Obama administration has discouraged taking steps in that direction.

[Gator]

BC and Shadow,
I can understand your support of Obama because further weakening of America would by comparison make Europe stronger.  Nevertheless, I would think everyone would want a stronger  world economy.    And that begins with strengthening, not weakening, of the world's largest economy.

[BC]

If Romney is a non-Christian, WTF is Obama?

The Mormon faith does not adhere exactly with traditional Christianity, yet Christianity is broader than the Vatican doctrine and it encompasses LDS.   To consider the Mormon faith as non-Christian requires a rigorous theological analysis of which I doubt anyone here is capable of performing.  Selective reading of doctrinal disputes does not count. 
 
And Quakers not being Christian?   That's a good one.  If there is a difference between  Quakers and Christians, it would be  Quakers are kinder and gentler.   For example, practicing Friends (Quakers) avoid war as part of their Peace Testimony (so Nixon was not a devout Quaker).

LOL Gator,

do some research.. It's not about who is nicer.  btw I studied at a Quaker college.

[BC]

That is an interesting spin.  In a stronger economy, higher energy prices will result from increased demand.  So you are against a stronger economy?   Nose..... spite.......face
 
BTW, in America we have the capability to be oil and gas self-subsistent in 10 years.    However, the Obama administration has discouraged taking steps in that direction.

Gator,

the evidence does not seem to support this theory.  http://www.smartplanet.com/blog/intelligent-energy/obama-vs-bush-the-oil-chart-that-will-surprise-you/11859

[BC]

BC and Shadow,
I can understand your support of Obama because further weakening of America would by comparison make Europe stronger.  Nevertheless, I would think everyone would want a stronger  world economy.    And that begins with strengthening, not weakening, of the world's largest economy.

Gator,

I don't think either Shadow (if he could) or I would have any qualms at all about voting for the best man..  It just seems that the republican and other parties haven't been able to come up with the person who can compete...

Shadows post was not supportive of Obama... It was why the other parties can't come up with something better...

We're the forest Gator, not the tree.

[Gator]

Gator,

the evidence does not seem to support this theory.  http://www.smartplanet.com/blog/intelligent-energy/obama-vs-bush-the-oil-chart-that-will-surprise-you/11859

Where is JB?
 
I guarantee you that Obama had NOTHING to do with the increased production.  To the contrary, his policies have kept production from increasing even more.
 
Much of the increased production is due to implementation of fracking, a method Obama has questioned and delayed.   Read about that.  Also read about curtailment of offshore drilling.   Related to this, read about pipelines from Canada.

[Gator]

Shadows post was not supportive of Obama... It was why the other parties can't come up with something better...

Something better, huh?   Let us start with something better than Obama.
 
Romney is intelligent, the same as Obama.  Different from Obama, Romney  has a proven track record as a turnaround guru for weakened enterprises (including the Olympics).  Also he served as  the moderate executive leader of a liberal state.   Even more significant, Romney is a decent human being.
 
To his fault, Romney is not charismatic on television while Obama is one of the best ever.    Romney is not comfortable with negative campaigns, while Obama seems to relish them.
 
I am sure that there are better leaders in America than Romney.  Yet, they do not want the job of President and would probably be eliminated by the negative campaigns necessary to get the job.   
 
 

[BC]

Where is JB?
 
I guarantee you that Obama had NOTHING to do with the increased production.  To the contrary, his policies have kept production from increasing even more.
 
Much of the increased production is due to implementation of fracking, a method Obama has questioned and delayed.   Read about that.  Also read about curtailment of offshore drilling.   Related to this, read about pipelines from Canada.

Gator,

and how do you explain the pre-Obama period?

[Gator]

25% of the people paid 87.3% of the Federal Income taxes.

That means 75% of the people only paid the remaining 12.7%
You think these 75% are going to vote to change this?

You are wrong. 
 
Many of the 75% do not aspire to success and will eagerly vote for change, change being that the 25% pay even more taxes because such is "fair."   

Definition of "fair" - those who worked their ass off for years  should take care of those who relaxed and partied over the same  years.

[BC]

I am sure that there are better leaders in America than Romney.  Yet, they do not want the job of President and would probably be eliminated by the negative campaigns necessary to get the job.

Gator,

and I do agree with you there, 100% as I alluded to upthread.  I have no problem with voting for a republican candidate that is up to snuff, even Romney.

The problem with Romney is that his plan has little substance, with much of the effects rebuked by independent research.  It's a political promise and that ain't worth much nowdays.  Obama is at least a known factor after four years so wins that argument.  Forget trickle down.. it has never worked without debt being in the game and we both know what that leads to.  His 'plan' has been picked apart many times over... and all it amounts to is that he will try to repeal Obamacare...  above that, promising 12 million jobs is a pipe dream.

Romey should 'put up' with his tax records... 'Oh I paid at least 13% does not quite hack it... 13% of what??  It's a no brainer, either he admits to the actual amounts paid or no confidence.  When it comes to the economy, his record should stand.  He does not even have to divulge the records themselves.... just the amounts.. what problem can there be with that....  in 2007 I paid xxxxxx.xx amount which equalled 13.5% of my income.. etc.

Romney represents big business... nothing wrong with that at all if there is transparency.. and there is not.  Perception of big bizness is waay down as far as the 98% is concerned.  Nothing in Romney's plan addresses that.

I could go on and on.. but you get the jist.

[BC]

You are wrong. 
 
Many of the 75% do not aspire to success and will eagerly vote for change, change being that the 25% pay even more taxes because such is "fair."   

Definition of "fair" - those who worked their ass off for years  should take care of those who relaxed and partied over the same  years.

Gator,

Your argument may well be justified if it were not for the shrinking of the middle class.  They have been sucked dry.  The only class that is becoming wealthier is the already wealthy class... go figure.

[Gator]

Obama is at least a known factor after four years so wins that argument.

I believe JB covered this already.
 

I love this line.

"...if you voted for Obama to prove you aren’t a racist, you now have to vote for Romney to prove you aren’t an idiot."

   The problem with Romney is that his plan has little substance, with much of the effects rebuked by independent research. 

His plan has not been finalized.  I await the forthcoming RNC down the street for the plan.   I fear that with Ryan it will touch on some necessary changes that are alarming to some.

Romey should 'put up' with his tax records...

I agree with you if Obama releases his university records, etc.  Please name another President who hid his educational records.   This will perhaps become an issue as the campaign unfolds.
 

Romney represents big business... nothing wrong with that at all if there is transparency.. and there is not.

 
 
I agree, people who have a record of success should not be eligible for office.    
 
Get real, there is enough transparency to understand what he did at Bain Capital, what would have happened had he not intervened, etc. 
 
And what crap was Obama involved with to explain his meteoric rise in the political ranks?   That to me is a big unknown.  Where did he get his money?  How did he manage to go to Pakistan?  Who were his core backers?

[Gator]

Gator,

Your argument may well be justified if it were not for the shrinking of the middle class.  They have been sucked dry.  The only class that is becoming wealthier is the already wealthy class... go figure.

Some in the wealthy class such as Obama's man Soros did well betting that the housing bubble would burst.  Others lost a ton of money.
 
More and more I get the feeling that you are a socialist with regard to the economy.  Please tell me that is not true.

[BC]

Some in the wealthy class such as Obama's man Soros did well betting that the housing bubble would burst.  Others lost a ton of money.
 
More and more I get the feeling that you are a socialist with regard to the economy.  Please tell me that is not true.

A socialist?  Now that's kind of hard to define especially of late, but no, I don't think I am a true socialist.

I have been a businessman for almost 30 years so know well what is involved, and I do praise success - in brick and mortar.  for 15 years I owned multiple companies  in Germany that had around 20 employees.  Believe it or not, despite the taxes, paying employer portion of healthcare, etc etc the business was great.  I do not however applaud the new 'business of speculation' as a core portion of the economy.  That is where things go awry.

Making a hard earned buck is much different than flipping a buck.  As long as flipping is taxed less than truly earning the economy and employment will never recover and investments in brick and mortar will lag severely.

All of todays woes can be tracked back to this imbalance.

[BC]

   
His plan has not been finalized.  I await the forthcoming RNC down the street for the plan.   I fear that with Ryan it will touch on some necessary changes that are alarming to some.
 
I agree with you if Obama releases his university records, etc.  Please name another President who hid his educational records.   This will perhaps become an issue as the campaign unfolds.

Once his plan has been finalized and deemed feasible I might rethink. But I doubt that will be forthcoming.

Has Romney released his university records?  Really though I doubt such matters that much.  But with the precedent his father set, followed by others from both parties, Romney Jr. has a tough argument ahead releasing only 1 year and an estimate for 2011.

[Faux Pas]

Once his plan has been finalized and deemed feasible I might rethink. But I doubt that will be forthcoming.

It will never be finalized whether he wins or not. Nor is BO's finalized although to date it has been an abysmal failure.

Has Romney released his university records?  Really though I doubt such matters that much.  But with the precedent his father set, followed by others from both parties, Romney Jr. has a tough argument ahead releasing only 1 year and an estimate for 2011.

Romney's records were never sealed and are available for inspection for those who seek them. BO's records were sealed and not available. A process that cost BO somewhere in the neighborhood of $750,000.

BC, you're biting too hard on the Romney's tax return question. Exactly what the BO campaign hopes every one does. There is nothing wrong with being rich and successful. It is seen as an opportunity to deflect from BO's record as president and further inflame class warfare.

Have you read either of BO's books?

[Faux Pas]

Once his plan has been finalized and deemed feasible I might rethink. But I doubt that will be forthcoming.

To summarize, Romney's plan is some fiscal responsibility. Balance the budget (which hasn't happened BO's entire term) reduce the debt (which has tripled under BO's presidency)and develop long term sustainable solutions to eliminating the debt. Also to repeal Obamacare.

Obama's plan is 4 more years that mirrors the last 4. Spending and printing money like a drunken sailor (forgive me all sailors)

[Shadow]

BC and Shadow,
I can understand your support of Obama because further weakening of America would by comparison make Europe stronger.  Nevertheless, I would think everyone would want a stronger  world economy.    And that begins with strengthening, not weakening, of the world's largest economy.

To be honest I just find it baffling that someone who has been called the worst president in history just a short time ago can even have a fighting chance.
While I undertand that it is usual for the President to go for a second term so there would not be competition from within, based on opinions on Obama from one or two years ago he should not even be in the election, let alone have a chance to win.

But if a banker screws up royally he still gets his bonus, so perhaps Obama will get a second term as well. 

[BC]

To summarize, Romney's plan is some fiscal responsibility. Balance the budget (which hasn't happened BO's entire term) reduce the debt (which has tripled under BO's presidency)and develop long term sustainable solutions to eliminating the debt. Also to repeal Obamacare.

Obama's plan is 4 more years that mirrors the last 4. Spending and printing money like a drunken sailor (forgive me all sailors)

http://www.washingtonpost.com/business/economy/adding-to-the-deficit-bush-vs-obama/2012/01/31/gIQAQ0kFgQ_graphic.html

And when was the last time the budget was ever balanced?

[tfcrew]

... the last time the budget was ever balanced?

Bill Clinton?
http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2010/02/03/cnn-fact-check-the-last-president-to-balance-the-budget/
Last Republican?
Eisenhower?
http://wiki.answers.com/Q/Which_republican_president_balanced_a_budget
Those days are definitely gone.

[Faux Pas]

http://www.washingtonpost.com/business/economy/adding-to-the-deficit-bush-vs-obama/2012/01/31/gIQAQ0kFgQ_graphic.html

And when was the last time the budget was ever balanced?

Honestly, I don't find your reference to Bush as relative or what that graph has to do with anything. Eisenhower admin IIRC was the last balanced budget. There have been many with smoke and mirrors of a balanced budget but that is all it was. The Obama admin hasn't even had a budget since he took office Should the country continue to operate in such a manner. If you believe yes, vote for BO. If you don't, your choice is limited

[BC]

Honestly, I don't find your reference to Bush as relative or what that graph has to do with anything. Eisenhower admin IIRC was the last balanced budget. There have been many with smoke and mirrors of a balanced budget but that is all it was. The Obama admin hasn't even had a budget since he took office Should the country continue to operate in such a manner. If you believe yes, vote for BO. If you don't, your choice is limited

I'm confused then.  This was not your post?  [parts emphasized]

To summarize, Romney's plan is some fiscal responsibility. Balance the budget (which hasn't happened BO's entire term) reduce the debt (which has tripled under BO's presidency)and develop long term sustainable solutions to eliminating the debt. Also to repeal Obamacare.

Obama's plan is 4 more years that mirrors the last 4. Spending and printing money like a drunken sailor (forgive me all sailors)

[Maxx2]

Rather hard to believe Obama or Romney are Christians when they back forces in Syria an Egypt that are bent on exterminating Christians in their countries.

[Faux Pas]

I'm confused then.  This was not your post?  [parts emphasized]

Yes and I misspoke, kind'a/sorta. The point I was trying to make was "a budget". We haven't had one in 3 years. A balanced budget being the goal, light at the end of the tunnel. At least get on track to fiscal responsibility. The national debt has near doubled in a short 4 years. Where is it headed in the next 4 without a budget.

Make no mistake, the bloodletting will have to commence at some point. The day of reckoning will happen. When it does happen, we need to do it from a position of fiscal strength and responsibility rather than bankruptcy. Greece can get bailed out from it's irresponsibilty because it's economy is insignificant. America will have no where to turn. Do you not see the urgency here?

[tfcrew]

Rather hard to believe Obama or Romney are Christians ....

It's not all that hard to believe...
As I posted earlier....

Politics is inherently evil.
They'll say anything ...do anything [bite back anyone] for that vote.
 
 
 

Matthew 4:9