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Author Topic: Some (Idiots) may see this as a win-win  (Read 2929 times)

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Offline Muzh

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Some (Idiots) may see this as a win-win
« on: September 30, 2014, 09:08:13 AM »

Quote
Several days ago 'The Economist' magazine pondered whether 'A Somalia scenario' awaits Eastern Ukraine where the Donbas "becomes a swathe of ungoverned territory harbouring bandits who cross into the rest of Ukraine to raid, kidnap and steal...or a "Transdniestria [type] region, where organised crime and corruption have flourished under a Russian-backed regime."
 
Anyone who thinks this is overdramatisation should read Yevhen Shibalov's article "Donetsk People's Republic' from the inside - a short primer" in the 'Dzerkalo Tyzhnya'  newspaper. It explains why it will be so difficult for any normal authority to co-operate with DPR in any meaningful manner to restore order.



http://foreignnotes.blogspot.ca/2014/09/splintered-donetsk-peoples-republic.html
« Last Edit: September 30, 2014, 09:09:55 AM by Muzh »
To argue with a man who has renounced the use and authority of reason, and whose philosophy consists in holding humanity in contempt, is like administering medicine to the dead. Thomas Paine - The American Crisis 1776-1783

Offline Muzh

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Re: Some (Idiots) may see this as a win-win
« Reply #1 on: September 30, 2014, 09:23:37 AM »
More win-win


Putin has fought his way into a corner
By Lilia Shevtsova
Russia’s president is hostage to his own belligerent posture, writes Lilia Shevtsova


http://www.ft.com/intl/cms/s/0/8d0978d6-3a9f-11e4-bd08-00144feabdc0.html#axzz3EofVJv00


(Psst, type the tittle in Google search for the complete article)
To argue with a man who has renounced the use and authority of reason, and whose philosophy consists in holding humanity in contempt, is like administering medicine to the dead. Thomas Paine - The American Crisis 1776-1783

Offline Brasscasing

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Re: Some (Idiots) may see this as a win-win
« Reply #2 on: September 30, 2014, 09:47:23 AM »
On a more comical note...

The win-win here is the translators get a trip to Canada and get to party for the duration of the conference because they've got no one to translate for.   :P

Russia upset over Canadian visa denials for delegates to space conference

..."However, an official with Roscosmos -- the Russian space agency -- said only two of its 10-strong delegation received Canadian visas for the 65th International Astronautical Congress -- both of them translators who were the last to apply."...

...Typical Canadian sense of humor, lol.

Read more: http://www.ctvnews.ca/sci-tech/russia-upset-over-canadian-visa-denials-for-delegates-to-space-conference-1.2031384#ixzz3Eokn1trw

Hiya Muzh. :)

Brass
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Offline fathertime

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Re: Some (Idiots) may see this as a win-win
« Reply #3 on: September 30, 2014, 09:56:14 AM »
Are you whining and crying over 'opinion' pieces again?


The Ukrainians are free to fight if they think that is the best course.  The world is obviously not running to the rescue despite certain tough-talking relics here jumping up and down.


Russia retains influence over certain areas of Ukraine while the rest likely moves closer to Europe...fairly predictable except for the few  angry and/or ignorant. The world leaders have made their decisions.   On the current path both sides will be able to claim they got some of what they want and the world doesn't have a much wider war.    That is how it goes.

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Offline Boethius

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Re: Some (Idiots) may see this as a win-win
« Reply #4 on: September 30, 2014, 11:30:21 AM »
No, Russia does not retain influence over certain regions of Ukraine.


The terrorists were controlled by Muscovites, and were, and are, made up of Russian citizen mercenaries, thieves and criminals from Donbass, and a relatively few number of honest citizens believing in their "cause".  They were losing the battle for "independence" until Russian troops were called in to reinforce them.  Russian troops from several regions were killed, and Russian (not Ukrainian) estimates are that 2,000 Russian troops died in Donbas, mostly in the past 2 1/2 months.


Russia's "influence" over those regions of Ukraine are similar to American "influence" over Iraq.

After the fall of communism, the biggest mistake Boris Yeltsin's regime made was not to disband the KGB altogether. Instead it changed its name to the FSB and, to many observers, morphed into a gangster organisation, eventually headed by master criminal Vladimir Putin. - Gerard Batten

Offline fathertime

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Re: Some (Idiots) may see this as a win-win
« Reply #5 on: September 30, 2014, 11:47:33 AM »
No, Russia does not retain influence over certain regions of Ukraine.





Russia's "influence" over those regions of Ukraine are similar to American "influence" over Iraq.
No, USA to Iraq is different then Russia to Ukraine.

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Offline Boethius

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Re: Some (Idiots) may see this as a win-win
« Reply #6 on: September 30, 2014, 12:24:13 PM »
No it isn't.  Both Ukraine and Iraq are sovereign states that were invaded by other countries for their own national interests.  The only difference is, one was done covertly.
After the fall of communism, the biggest mistake Boris Yeltsin's regime made was not to disband the KGB altogether. Instead it changed its name to the FSB and, to many observers, morphed into a gangster organisation, eventually headed by master criminal Vladimir Putin. - Gerard Batten

Offline fathertime

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Re: Some (Idiots) may see this as a win-win
« Reply #7 on: September 30, 2014, 12:35:08 PM »
The only difference is, one was done covertly.

No, there are many other differences than this.

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lordtiberius

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Re: Some (Idiots) may see this as a win-win
« Reply #8 on: September 30, 2014, 04:15:00 PM »
I agree with FT.  Iraq is a bad analogy.  Pick another.

Offline Boethius

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Re: Some (Idiots) may see this as a win-win
« Reply #9 on: September 30, 2014, 06:35:53 PM »
There is a reason for the $750 million dollar embassy in Iraq.


The point is, Russia has no right to interfere in a sovereign state's affairs.
After the fall of communism, the biggest mistake Boris Yeltsin's regime made was not to disband the KGB altogether. Instead it changed its name to the FSB and, to many observers, morphed into a gangster organisation, eventually headed by master criminal Vladimir Putin. - Gerard Batten

Offline fathertime

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Re: Some (Idiots) may see this as a win-win
« Reply #10 on: September 30, 2014, 08:23:26 PM »
There is a reason for the $750 million dollar embassy in Iraq.


The point is, Russia has no right to interfere in a sovereign state's affairs.


Well it sounds like you are quietly acknowledging that there were/are differences in IRAQ to the USA...and Russia to UKRAINE. Very good. 


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lordtiberius

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Re: Some (Idiots) may see this as a win-win
« Reply #11 on: October 01, 2014, 04:34:14 AM »
There is a reason for the $750 million dollar embassy in Iraq.


The point is, Russia has no right to interfere in a sovereign state's affairs.

You are losing this argument to FT with this analogy.  You aren't a fan of the war.  Great.  Make that point on another thread.  Because to attack the Iraq  war you have to defend Saddam and by analogy Yanukovich and Putin.

 

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