Do FSU women consider marriage to be a contract or a covenant?

[Morty]

What a nutter.

[GuppyCaptain]

What a nutter.

We have a lot of the ultra-religious types in our country. 

[Anotherkiwi]

I believe that people should choose wisely before marrying, but once they are married they should stay together for better or for worse.  If the marriage does fall apart, I believe they should either reconcile or remain single.

You want partners in a marriage to reconcile if the marriage falls apart?  Unlike in your perfect world, there are usually reasons why a marriage breaks down, and there is no way that people in such a situation would reconcile.  One obvious example is spousal abuse - why should a woman remain in a marriage where the husband regularly attacks her with his fists or a weapon?  Why should a husband remain in a marriage with a serial adulterer who flaunts her affairs?  Despite your best wishes, the real world is NOT black and white.  The traditional wedding vows of "for better or worse, for richer, for poorer..." cannot always apply.

As for remaining single after a divorce, why should they?  While I'm well aware of the statistics which you have quoted about divorced people and remarriage, why won't you allow people the chance of happiness with someone else?  Sure, most people on this forum may be divorced, but many of them have remarried and have remained happy with their new spouse.

Not aggressing against others does not prevent someone from defending against others aggression.

Yes, but it is you who seem to be incapable of understanding that YOU are the aggressor on this forum.  Most posters have bent over backwards to allow you leeway to postulate your views, and nobody would mind if you had hard evidence to back up your many assertions.  In most cases you don't, so people with more experience of certain things (such as marriage) are going to call you out without hesitation.

It has the potential to cause injury.  Shooting a gun has the potential to cause injury or death.  Knives have the potential to cause injury or death.  But potential is not enough.  There must be imminent danger to others.  Simply driving fast does not necessarily create an imminent danger to others.  (I recall that car accidents can be fatal as low as 12 miles per hour - do you advocate an 11 MPH speed restriction to keep people safe?)

Part of the price of freedom and liberty is that people have the opportunity and potential to cause injury to others.

Read again what I wrote -

"...fast driving by one person may lead to another causing injury or death because they had to avoid the speeding car in what became an unsafe way?"

What else can "may" mean in this context except "potential?"  As for "imminent" danger - if a car is speeding, the potential to cause an accident (whether to one's self or others) increases exponentially to the point where there is no chance of avoiding such an event.  At 30 MPH you might have a chance to get out of the way - if the other vehicle is doing 80 MPH you have no chance.

If someone's driving causes another accident (regardless of the speed) they should be held responsible for their actions.

I'm glad you agree.

What psychological injury?  Witnessing something like that is incredibly psychologically HEALTHY for other people.  It teaches them that there are consequences for actions, and bad decisions can have very costly consequences.

You have got to be the most cold-hearted person I've ever had the misfortune to encounter.  While I do actually agree with the sentiment of your second sentence, you seem to forget that we're referring to sentient human beings, not robots.  If you can compartmentalise this sort of experience to that degree, then it has obviously never happened to you or to anyone you know.

[JayH]

What a nutter.

The BeeFarmer is better thought of a  A F...wit !!

[Ludmila]

Physical violence is not accepted in my social circle either, but it does sometimes happen behind closed doors in the community.

What is more common and prevalent is emotional abuse of partners.  It's common for partners to be negative and tear each other down.  Finding relationships where people are positive and supportive of each other are much harder to find.

I gather, BF must be either a practicing Orthodox  jew ( hard to believe if he's a bee farmer) or, most likely, a former Amish or Mennonite, who broke away from his community, got education, has a decent job and now wants to live in Christ but outside the community ( without a middleman). Ladies he has in mind most likely live in far away rural areas who  never think of marrying an American. Those ladies would be clueless about American history, what it was  founded on, its constitution, American Christian fundamentalism, etc, etc). In their mind, most likely,  America is thought to be the world's center of promiscuity and fallen morals.)
He is intelligent enough but is in conflict with the reality. I have a supposition that he is a believer but got disappointed with the institution of contemporary Western Church ( and not without a reason).
What is really upsetting is that in all his elaborations he, NOT A SINGLE TIME, pronounced the word LOVE. I will not rule it out that in his system it simply means obligations.
Christian marriage, first and foremost,  is based on LOVE which is a much stronger binder than any social responsibilities,  laws or beliefs.  It is so upsetting that he may never experience it.

[Slumba]

I gather, BF must be either a practicing Orthodox  jew ( hard to believe if he's a bee farmer) or, most likely, a former Amish or Mennonite, who broke away from his community, got education, has a decent job and now wants to live in Christ but outside the community ( without a middleman). Ladies he has in mind most likely live in far away rural areas who  never think of marrying an American. Those ladies would be clueless about American history, what it was  founded on, its constitution, American Christian fundamentalism, etc, etc). In their mind, most likely,  America is thought to be the world's center of promiscuity and fallen morals.)
He is intelligent enough but is in conflict with the reality. I have a supposition that he is a believer but got disappointed with the institution of contemporary Western Church ( and not without a reason).
What is really upsetting is that in all his elaborations he, NOT A SINGLE TIME, pronounced the word LOVE. I will not rule it out that in his system it simply means obligations.
Christian marriage, first and foremost,  is based on LOVE which is a much stronger binder than any social responsibilities,  laws or beliefs.  It is so upsetting that he may never experience it.

Fantastic post!  I think BF has stated in the past he is from a Mennonite or Amish (or similar) background.

[Ludmila]

Thank you, Slumba!

[Bee Farmer]

I gather, BF must be either a practicing Orthodox  jew ( hard to believe if he's a bee farmer) or, most likely, a former Amish or Mennonite, who broke away from his community, got education, has a decent job and now wants to live in Christ but outside the community ( without a middleman).

I'm not Orthodox Jew, or former Amish or Mennonite.  I have known Amish and Mennonite my whole life, and I still have close friends who are Mennonites.

In their mind, most likely,  America is thought to be the world's center of promiscuity and fallen morals.)

Hmm.  That sounds a lot like the description of the Mystery Babylon in the book of Revelations.

I have a supposition that he is a believer but got disappointed with the institution of contemporary Western Church ( and not without a reason).

I wouldn't say that I got disappointed with it.  I never bought into it in the first place.  I've always recognized that Churchianity (the religion taught in churches) is not Christianity (following Christ's teachings.)

What is really upsetting is that in all his elaborations he, NOT A SINGLE TIME, pronounced the word LOVE. I will not rule it out that in his system it simply means obligations.
Christian marriage, first and foremost,  is based on LOVE which is a much stronger binder than any social responsibilities,  laws or beliefs.  It is so upsetting that he may never experience it.

And here I believe you are the one who is intelligent enough, but in conflict with reality.

I wholeheartedly agree that love is an important factor of a happy marriage.  (The Bible does say that a man who does not love his wife does not love himself.)  But love is not enough.  Lots of folks get married who love each other get married, and it ends in disaster.

Just because you love someone does not mean they are marriage material.  They may have drug or alcohol problems, abusive, irresponsible, lazy, a cheat, liar, dishonest, money wasting, etc.

How many times have you known people who say they both love each other after they divorced, but love wasn't enough to make the marriage work?

Just because you love someone does not make people committed to each other.  You have to love the other person as much as you love yourself.  If you love yourself more than you love your partner, the marriage will always have problems.

The problem is, many people are unwilling to love someone else as much as they love themselves.

The Bible says the greatest commandment is to love God, and the second most important commandment is to love your neighbor as yourself.

Jesus said that if someone gets divorced, and then remarries, they are committing adultery.  That is another one of the commandments - you are not showing love to your neighbor if you commit adultery.

I believe that marriage is for life.  If you find the right person, I believe it can be the best thing in the world.  If you find the wrong one, there isn't anything worse.
I believe you only get one chance at marriage, so you have to be very cautious about choosing the right one.  (I consider divorce and remarriage to be adultery.)  While everyone gets to make their own decisions in life, for myself, I do not date women who have ever been married.

Perhaps my question could be worded better, do FSUW consider marriage to be a breakable contract, or an unbreakable promise?  (Fools rush into breakable contracts, but wise people are very cautious about the promises they make.)  I believe that folks should be extremely picky about who they marry, but once they have made the decision, they should stay married for life.  And if they do split up, they should remain single the rest of their life, or else reconcile and get back together.

While I believe love is an important component of marriage, I also believe that a person's core values and beliefs are of great importance too.

I would also like to add that I am not desperate to get married.  I'm not one of those guys who are bound and determined to find a wife.  I think it would be great to get married to a great woman, but I enjoy being single too.  I trust God that if he wants me to get married, he will put the right woman in my life...but I won't be bitter if I never get married.

[HoundDaddyLee]

   BF'er are you out on a furlough from your psychiatric institution or out permanently? Or just off your meds? And unless something has changed in America, we are guided by the Constitution and laws of men, not the Bible. While a good guide book for living a moral life, I do not want my life ruled by the Bible (or Torah or Koran). Pretty sure 99.9% of Americans feel the same way. But please keep going with your hope for an America ruled by an American Taliban. Maybe you can join the Westboro Baptist Church. I watched a documentary the other night of ex-members stating that more are leaving. They could use your moral righteousness.


Really, you are insane. But that pesky Constitution allows you to blovaite on your own skewed reading of the Bible.


HDL

[Slumba]

I wouldn't say that I got disappointed with it.  I never bought into it in the first place.  I've always recognized that Churchianity (the religion taught in churches) is not Christianity (following Christ's teachings.)

It's a start, I guess....

I believe that marriage is for life.  If you find the right person, I believe it can be the best thing in the world.  If you find the wrong one, there isn't anything worse.
I believe you only get one chance at marriage, so you have to be very cautious about choosing the right one.  (I consider divorce and remarriage to be adultery.)  While everyone gets to make their own decisions in life, for myself, I do not date women who have ever been married.

I would also like to add that I am not desperate to get married.  I'm not one of those guys who are bound and determined to find a wife.  I think it would be great to get married to a great woman, but I enjoy being single too.  I trust God that if he wants me to get married, he will put the right woman in my life...but I won't be bitter if I never get married.

I would also like to add that I am not desperate to become a neurosurgeon. I'm not one of those guys who are bound and determined to enter residency. I think it would be great to become a neurosurgeon, but I enjoy not being a neurosurgeon too.  I trust God that if he wants me to become a neurosurgeon, he will put the right medical school in my life ... but I won't be bitter if I never become a neurosurgeon.

THIS IS WHY YOU FAIL.

[Faux Pas]

It's a start, I guess....


I would also like to add that I am not desperate to become a neurosurgeon. I'm not one of those guys who are bound and determined to enter residency. I think it would be great to become a neurosurgeon, but I enjoy not being a neurosurgeon too.  I trust God that if he wants me to become a neurosurgeon, he will put the right medical school in my life ... but I won't be bitter if I never become a neurosurgeon.

THIS IS WHY YOU FAIL.

It reminds me of that joke about the guy that asks God to let him win the lottery week after week he asks God the same thing. "Lord please let me win the lottery" and week after week he never wins. Eventually after asking for the 1000th time the clouds break and a loud beaming voice from above says "why don't you help me out and buy a ticket?"

[BillyB]

I believe that marriage is for life.  If you find the right person, I believe it can be the best thing in the world.  If you find the wrong one, there isn't anything worse.
I believe you only get one chance at marriage, so you have to be very cautious about choosing the right one.  (I consider divorce and remarriage to be adultery.)  While everyone gets to make their own decisions in life, for myself, I do not date women who have ever been married.

You're not looking to marry a woman with a large age gap and almost everybody your age has been married at least once. If I remember correctly, you're wanting the woman to be a virgin too. You believe marriage can be the best thing in the world but with your self imposed restrictions, you may never experience the best thing in the world.

[alex330]

Perhaps my question could be worded better, do FSUW consider marriage to be a breakable contract, or an unbreakable promise?

It obviously depends on the woman and how she was raised. Most FSUW see marriage as a basic contract that can easily be broken should one partner fail to fulfill their end of the deal. They are very practical and while love plays a part (and most are very faithful) they will sever the relationship if need be.

[Boethius]

BF'er are you out on a furlough from your psychiatric institution or out permanently? Or just off your meds? And unless something has changed in America, we are guided by the Constitution and laws of men, not the Bible. While a good guide book for living a moral life, I do not want my life ruled by the Bible (or Torah or Koran). Pretty sure 99.9% of Americans feel the same way. But please keep going with your hope for an America ruled by an American Taliban. Maybe you can join the Westboro Baptist Church. I watched a documentary the other night of ex-members stating that more are leaving. They could use your moral righteousness.


Really, you are insane. But that pesky Constitution allows you to blovaite on your own skewed reading of the Bible.

I don't see where BF has advocated that all Americans be ruled by the Bible.  I get the impression these are his own personal beliefs, and he believes it would be better if people lived this way.  I don't see why taking a covenant before God, or living your life according to these beliefs, is such a bad thing.  It is a very personal matter.


BF statement on Jesus' view of marriage and adultery is, in fact, as set out in the Bible.

[Boethius]

BF, to answer your question, I don't think you will find many FSUW who would have the view of marriage you seek in a wife.

[Boethius]

It's a start, I guess....


I would also like to add that I am not desperate to become a neurosurgeon. I'm not one of those guys who are bound and determined to enter residency. I think it would be great to become a neurosurgeon, but I enjoy not being a neurosurgeon too.  I trust God that if he wants me to become a neurosurgeon, he will put the right medical school in my life ... but I won't be bitter if I never become a neurosurgeon.

THIS IS WHY YOU FAIL.

All he is saying is that if he is to be married, God will put that woman in his path.  I believe that.  My better half believes it as well.  It's not about action or lack thereof.

[Muzh]

I wouldn't say that I got disappointed with it.  I never bought into it in the first place.  I've always recognized that Churchianity (the religion taught in churches) is not Christianity (following Christ's teachings.)

How do you know that? Did you talked to Jayzus at the bodega?


Who the hell do you think has been spreading the word of Jayzus after he died?* Snakes?


Nope. The churches. And of course, they will print what they find to be acceptable to <cough, cough> man.


*Still uncorrobrated.

[HoundDaddyLee]

I don't see where BF has advocated that all Americans be ruled by the Bible.  I get the impression these are his own personal beliefs, and he believes it would be better if people lived this way.  I don't see why taking a covenant before God, or living your life according to these beliefs, is such a bad thing.  It is a very personal matter.


BF statement on Jesus' view of marriage and adultery is, in fact, as set out in the Bible.

Yes, Boe, it is what Jesus says in Mathew. That really isn't the issue. My concern is for every BF'er there are many more in the shadows. Extreme Fundamental Religious views are dangerous to a free society. This is my point. He has such views, IMO. Whether it is Sharia law or the view expounded by the Westboro Baptist Church, it is dangerous, period. I don't want the government to quiet them, but when I come across a nutter I call them out. I have done it in discussions with members of the church I attend. There is a guy there who carries around a Xerox'ed (TM) photo of a dinosaur footprint and human foot print side by side in a "fossil". He uses this as proof men existed with the dinosaurs. He believes the earth is 6000 years old and is a fundamentalist believer. He has convinced others of this. As someone who is a Christian and also has a science based university education, it bothers me that people allow their faith to rule all. Even common sense.


It took me many years to reconcile religious faith with scientific fact. I have reached that point. I can believe Jesus died for our sins without believing the Earth is only 6000 years old (as an example).


In my view the only difference between extreme fundamentalist Christians (like the Westboro Baptist Church) and ISIS is one of numbers. Give WBC 1 million members and they would start cutting off the heads of the disbelievers (well certainly Gay and Lesbians). It is why I love that our fore fathers realized that religion was a dangerous notion and put Separation of Church and State in the 1st Amendment.


These are of course my views. If everyone else things BF'er make sense, maybe I am the crazy one. 


HDL

[Muzh]

You're not looking to marry a woman with a large age gap and almost everybody your age has been married at least once. If I remember correctly, you're wanting the woman to be a virgin too. You believe marriage can be the best thing in the world but with your self imposed restrictions, you may never experience the best thing in the world.

Heh


Take it from the man who knows. 

[Boethius]

Yes, Boe, it is what Jesus says in Mathew. That really isn't the issue. My concern is for every BF'er there are many more in the shadows. Extreme Fundamental Religious views are dangerous to a free society. This is my point. He has such views, IMO. Whether it is Sharia law or the view expounded by the Westboro Baptist Church, it is dangerous, period. I don't want the government to quiet them, but when I come across a nutter I call them out. I have done it in discussions with members of the church I attend. There is a guy there who carries around a Xerox'ed (TM) photo of a dinosaur footprint and human foot print side by side in a "fossil". He uses this as proof men existed with the dinosaurs. He believes the earth is 6000 years old and is a fundamentalist believer. He has convinced others of this. As someone who is a Christian and also has a science based university education, it bothers me that people allow their faith to rule all. Even common sense.


It took me many years to reconcile religious faith with scientific fact. I have reached that point. I can believe Jesus died for our sins without believing the Earth is only 6000 years old (as an example).


In my view the only difference between extreme fundamentalist Christians (like the Westboro Baptist Church) and ISIS is one of numbers. Give WBC 1 million members and they would start cutting off the heads of the disbelievers (well certainly Gay and Lesbians). It is why I love that our fore fathers realized that religion was a dangerous notion and put Separation of Church and State in the 1st Amendment.


These are of course my views. If everyone else things BF'er make sense, maybe I am the crazy one. 


HDL

Extreme views are not a threat, unless those holding them wish to impose their views on others.  I see nothing which indicates that in BF's posts.

[Muzh]

These are of course my views. If everyone else things BF'er make sense, maybe I am the crazy one. 


HDL

Nah.


 

[Muzh]

Extreme views are not a threat, unless those holding them wish to impose their views on others.  I see nothing which indicates that in BF's posts.

I'll disagree. I see a very intolerant man with very intorlerant views.

[Boethius]

I don't see someone who is advocating imposing his views on others.  What BF believes personally is up to him.

[Muzh]

I don't see someone who is advocating imposing his views on others.  What BF believes personally is up to him.

You should read some of his other postings more carefully. 

[Anotherkiwi]

You should read some of his other postings more carefully. 

Agreed.  Some of his prior efforts are 100% aimed at imposing his view on the whole world - not just "others."