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Author Topic: Ukraine Travel Warning Dec. 14 2016  (Read 17779 times)

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Offline SANDRO43

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Re: Ukraine Travel Warning Dec. 14 2016
« Reply #25 on: May 10, 2018, 04:50:41 PM »
Historically, the Russian Empire always had a lot of corruption among its bureaucrats.
Maybe not always ;). In the late 1800s they kept thorough records of their careers and stipends, witness my great-grandfather's long Résumé des services rendus (in French) on this page: http://www.floriani.it/leonida-eng.htm.
« Last Edit: May 10, 2018, 04:52:47 PM by SANDRO43 »
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Online krimster2

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Re: Ukraine Travel Warning Dec. 14 2016
« Reply #26 on: May 11, 2018, 07:14:24 AM »
a 2017 Ernst and Young’s Corruption Perception rating found that Ukraine was the NUMBER 1 MOST CORRUPT COUNTRY of 41 corrupt countries, interestingly, Russia was sixteenth. Eighty-eight percent of Ukrainians believed that corruption was widespread in their county.

but according to Jay based on a recent trip to Ovir to receive a perfunctory visa stamp without receiving a request for a  “facilitation payment”, this perception of Ukraine being corrupt is no longer valid and Ukraine is now all about being AGAINST corruption...

an incredible turn-about overcoming centuries of institutional corruption seemingly overnight

clearly both views about corruption can’t be “correct”

I’ll leave it to the reader to decide...

BTW J,
I rarely “personally” went to Ovir, either an assistant or my wife took my passport and “facilitation" present and returned it to me, so your point of requesting a “when I was there” is totally irrelevant

my Ukrainian network has grown quite a bit over the last 20 years, I hear frequent reports from quite an eclectic group of people, including someone very high up in the Міністерство інфраструктури України) who is in charge of handling Ukraine’s merchant ships and who travels frequently

corruption in Ukraine has never been more lucrative than what it is now
Ukraine’s corruption even attracted Manafort, that’s how bad it is
and the little “anti-corruption” posters in Borispil are just for “show"
and not actual “policy” and they’re the same the old posters from a few years ago
which were re-used from the previous administration’s  anti-corruption campaign
of Make Ukraine Great Again

ok...

Online krimster2

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Re: Ukraine Travel Warning Dec. 14 2016
« Reply #27 on: May 11, 2018, 08:34:17 AM »
Jay-Z

here is your Ukraine!
between a rock and a hard place
how much longer will it last



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Three and a half years ago, Ukrainians rose against corruption. This year, Ernst and Young’s Corruption Perception rating found that Ukraine was the most corrupt of 41 corrupt countries. Russia was sixteenth. Eighty-eight percent of Ukrainians believed that corruption was widespread in their county.

The foreign professionals, a motley crew of reformers who were invited to help fix the Ukrainian economy—named variags after ancient Vikings—have mostly left. 

Chicago-born Natalie Jaresko, the finance minister of Ukraine who was invited to come from the U.S. to fix the Ukrainian economy, decided not to wait for the results of the reforms she enacted. She is now back in America and is executive director of a U.S. federal control board overseeing Puerto Rico’s finances, with a comfortable annual salary of $625,000.

Mikheil Saakashvili, the variag from the former Soviet republic of Georgia, gave his diagnosis: “Ukraine would need another 20 years of toil to rise economically to the level of the pre-Maidan years.” Poroshenko fired the former president of Georgia from his position as governor of the Odessa region.

Ukrainian reformers, like post-Maidan Prime Minister Arseniy Yatsenyuk, have also resigned. In an interview in March, he estimated his net worth at “more or less $1 million.” Most believe it is on the “more” side; some even estimate a billion U.S. dollars.

Head of the Ukrainian National Bank, Valeria Gontareva, having declared $2 million in income in 2016, resigned from her post in May. The list goes on.

In May, Prime Minister Volodymyr Groysman said he was prepared to resign if his ambitious retirement reform bill did not pass Parliament. The reform bill would increase monthly retirement payouts to 12 million Ukrainians from $51 to $60, or even $70. Before Maidan, payouts were $190.

The average monthly salary in Ukraine is about $230. Before Maidan, it was $410.

This year, real estate analysts predict that the value of apartments in Kiev will sink another 10 percent—on top of 2016’s 25 percent drop. A one-bedroom apartment in Kiev can be bought for $15,000. Real estate prices have sunken to 1990s-levels, Ukrainian portal Vesti reported.

Free medicine, which is guaranteed by Article 49 of the Ukrainian Constitution, no longer exists.

In the meantime, Ukraine’s national debt is rising. In 2016, it grew 8.3 percent. The Ministry of Finance reported that it is now more than $74 billion—67 percent of country’s GDP.

Polls say that those who led the revolution have lost the public’s trust. According to Sofia Center for Social Studies, 82 percent of Ukrainians do not trust Andriy Parubiy, commander of the Maidan revolution and current head of Ukrainian Parliament. Eighty-one percent do not trust Minister of Interior Arsen Avakov, and 81.5 percent do not trust Head of the Council for Defense and Security Oleksandr Turchynov. Eighty-nine percent of Ukrainians do not trust Parliament, and 86.2 percent do not trust the government as a whole.

Georgy Tuka, in charge of issues of occupied territories (two separatist regions supported by Russia), openly calls for dictatorship. “The state system that we have today is not capable of leading our country out of the deepest crisis, which we are in now. I support a more stringent measure: dictatorship,” he said to Ukrainian NewsOne. “We have been told lately that we have democracy [in Ukraine]. It is a pure lie. I do not think that the elections that are being bought and sold at the polling stations, then bought in the courts, and then are formed by big money are our bright future.”

But changes to the current political structure can hardly be expected. Ukraine is mired in war. Guns prevail over law. Yuriy Bereza, the deputy head of the Parliamentarian faction backed by Minister for Interior Arsen Avakov, promised to massacre the opposition if it ever tried to return to power. He said, “I have a plan B. There will be no civil war. The will be no revanche. There will be the Night of Long Knives. That’s it.”

He knows what he’s talking about. Dozens of political activists and journalists have been murdered since the days of Maidan. Exiled Ukrainian journalist Anatoly Shariy admits that before Maidan Ukraine was not a crime-free paradise but “nobody could have simply come to you, kill you, and just walk away.” Shariy lives in undisclosed location in France.

Opposition parliamentarian Natalia Korolevska, a former presidential candidate and former minister for Social Policy, is at risk of becoming blind after radicals in paramilitary uniforms threw a green solution on her face during a meeting with constituents on June 6 in Odessa. Police did not interfere. The criminals walked away, not even bothering to cover their faces.

Only 1.9 percent of Ukrainians trust President Petro Poroshenko. An overwhelming 78.1 percent do not.

In fact, Poroshenko is so despised in Ukraine that one store in Kiev prints “Poroshenko asshole” on their receipts.

A secret telephone conversation this spring between Poroshenko and Vladimir Putin was leaked. According to the Kremlin, it was conducted in “a respectful and correct manner”and “the heads of the states periodically switched to a playful, ironic tone.” Ukrainians were infuriated.

The matters discussed during the conversations were never disclosed.

What country could the president of Ukraine have talked about on June 11, when Ukrainians were celebrating the first day of their visa-free travel to the EU?

Russia, of course.

“Farewell, unwashed Russia, country of slaves, country of masters!” Poroshenko quoted Russian poet Mikhail Lermontov’s poem while addressing “his people” at the moment of, from his perspective, Ukraine’s final departure from the “Russian world.”

Curiously, Mikhail Lermontov is Putin’s favorite poet. He quoted the same poem in 2015 during his meeting with a selected group of Russia’s teachers.

Poroshenko’s chocolate factory in the Russian town of Lipetsk was closed only last April. It operated for more than three years on the Russian market since the beginning of the “Russian aggression.” The factory sent $72 million in dividends to the Ukrainian president’s bank accounts.

From the perspective of the suspicious Ukrainian public, this strange love-hate attitude towards Russia within the Poroshenko family is not limited to the president.

His 16-year-old son, Mykhailo, a student of the prestigious British Concord College, recently posted a picture of him wearing a sweatshirt that said “Russia.” The photo created such an uproar that the president apologized and made his son go on TV wearing a T-shirt that said “Ukraine.”

Additionally, Yulia Poroshenko, his daughter-in-law, still has her Russian citizenship. The president’s family ignored an appeal by Ukrainian journalist Dmytro Gnap to burn her Russian passport on the anniversary of Maidan.


Poroshenko says that visa-free travel to Europe, which allows Ukrainian tourists to stay in EU countries for 90 days with no rights to employment, is what the Maidan was all about. This was what they were fighting for on Kiev’s streets in 2014.

More than 10,000 Ukrainians have been killed on both sides of the divide since 2014, and for this?


According to UN data, almost 60 percent of Ukrainians live below the poverty line. In 2015, 28.6 percent did. Only five to 10 percent of Ukrainians meet the financial standards necessary to enjoy the newly acquired freedom to travel to EU. Thirty-four percent of Ukrainians want to leave their country. The highest share of potential emigrants (55 percent) are people younger than 30 years-old.

In terms of zrada on the international front, it is rumored that Donald Trump will ease the economic sanctions imposed on Russia, and Europe is signaling that it is tired of confronting Russia about Ukraine.

Ukrainians suspect that their country is nothing but a major headache for the Trump administration. Ukrainian politician Nadia Savchenko, who was freed from Russian prison a year ago, promised dire consequences for the U.S. if it decides to change its policy on Ukraine. In an interview to ZIK in May, she sent this message to the U.S.: “If you don’t want to support us, we shall support your enemy [Russia], and we will start fighting against you.”



those who love Ukraine can only weep over what's coming next..
but let's tell it the way it is...


Offline alex330

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Re: Ukraine Travel Warning Dec. 14 2016
« Reply #28 on: May 11, 2018, 11:24:44 AM »
Yes, Ukraine is in a real shitty position right now.

Wife's family called and said that they just raised prices for many things once more. Gas, food, and so on. Wages remain the same.

The nonprofit I work with has lost a lot of funding for the children because many organizations have moved to other harder hit areas like Syria, or the migrants in Europe.

Talent is trying to leave the country now. A good friend recently asked us how to come here to give birth as a way out.

Things are so bad husbands are "pimping" out their wives like they do in Colombia. For those still looking for a wife be very leery of male translators. The new gig in Odesa is to have the husband or boyfriend tag along on the date as the "translator". Free dinner for the family and a little extra money top pay the bills.
« Last Edit: May 11, 2018, 11:26:15 AM by alex330 »

Online krimster2

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Re: Ukraine Travel Warning Dec. 14 2016
« Reply #29 on: May 11, 2018, 11:34:36 AM »
remember when Americans used to ask about "retiring in Ukraine"??
wait another couple of years
and they'll completely stop asking about it...

Offline alex330

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Re: Ukraine Travel Warning Dec. 14 2016
« Reply #30 on: May 11, 2018, 11:55:43 AM »
I would do it right now tbh, but am still relatively young and work online, so would be easier.

If I were older or needed medical I would not risk it. You would need to re-retire back to the US like ML said in another post. It's not a comfortable country for older people.

Online krimster2

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Re: Ukraine Travel Warning Dec. 14 2016
« Reply #31 on: May 11, 2018, 12:22:36 PM »
I tried it out for 3 years, bought a huge apartment right on the black sea and fixed it up
but...
you just have to live there to understand what a messed up place it it is...
especially if you have kids

OTOH, if I were single, I would totally live there and have 2-3 mistresses but live by myself
or live by myself and hire escorts once a month to spend a few days with me and have them cook for me as well

I can day dream, right...

when I lived there you didn't have to pay a property tax - total monthly cost for a 2600 sq ft apartment was $50/month which included utilities
now with higher utilities and property tax I'm guessing it would be about $200+/month

still not bad - but you get what you pay for, like garbage collection for instance...


 

Offline JayH

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Re: Ukraine Travel Warning Dec. 14 2016
« Reply #32 on: May 11, 2018, 05:56:19 PM »

but according to Jay based on a recent trip to Ovir to receive a perfunctory visa stamp without receiving a request for a  “facilitation payment”, this perception of Ukraine being corrupt is no longer valid and Ukraine is now all about being AGAINST corruption...
...

BTW J,
I rarely “personally” went to Ovir, either an assistant or my wife took my passport and “facilitation" present and returned it to me, so your point of requesting a “when I was there” is totally irrelevant

ok...

So -- I note again that you very deliberately decline to state when you were last in Ukraine -- and when the experience you refer to actually happened.
Also note -- a an action being attributed  that I did not say . The attempt to misrepresent my actual experiences and in particular my comment -- a comment made to illustrate that Krimster comments were a supposed to me his personal experience-- which he now concedes they were not-- by way of comparison-- mine were different and first hand.
The attempt to misrepresent my position is dishonest.

So -- when exactly were you there? It is not irrelevant -- simply put- my comments refer very specifically to post 2014 -- and without knowing for sure -- Krimster reference is to an earlier period . A very major change occurred in Ukraine -- and a refusal to understand that illustrates his outdated comments are just that.

Krimster and others who write of issues from a long time ago as if they are current-- are misrepresenting and misleading issues.
SLAVA UKRAYINI  ! HEROYAM SLAVA!!!!
Слава Украине! Слава героям слава!Слава Україні! Слава героям!
 translated as: Glory to Ukraine! Glory to the heroes!!!  is a Ukrainian greeting slogan being used now all over Ukraine to signify support for a free independent Ukraine

Offline Boethius

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Re: Ukraine Travel Warning Dec. 14 2016
« Reply #33 on: May 11, 2018, 11:03:55 PM »
My information comes from two sources - my last visit to Ukraine in the summer of 2017, and my husband's visits several times a year, the last, within the last two months.  Is that recent enough for you?

The better half's views come both from on the ground observation, living among mostly unemployed working class Ukrainians when there, and partly from his family's experiences.  One family member owns numerous kiosks in Kyiv.  He is still required to pay bribes to ensure his kiosks can operate unmolested.  Another relative inherited huge tracts of land in a village outside Kyiv, via marriage (spouse died).  That relative leases the lands to a German company, but to ensure everything is legal,  has to pay bribes to Ukrainian officials.  Then there is the story of a cousin who was on the front lines near Donetsk.  He was in the army for 2 years, and when he returned to Kyiv, his state run job was not available to him.  You see, veterans don't really matter.  You do your time fighting for your country, and you're on your own when you get back.  This differs even from Soviet times, when such jobs were held for you.  Due to the unemployment situation, he couldn't find another job, and died, I believe, from depression.

Then there are the experiences in our immediate family's cases.  Surgeries?  Sure, they are paid for by the state for the average Ukrainian.  However, if you actually want that surgery, you better have dollars for the surgeon, plus the nurses.  Otherwise, you will die waiting for the surgery, and even if you receive the operation, you will receive no post operative treatment. They are more fortunate than some of their friends in the same situation, as they have the better half to send money thereby ensuring their treatment.  The last time this occurred was about six weeks ago.  Is that recent enough for you?

The better half knows a woman from L'vivska oblast'.  She owns several apartments, and a huge house in Bukovel.  She funds the pharmacy her daughter owns.  To this day, the daughter is compelled to pay "protection money" to the local police, and the woman says she has to pay bribes to officials related to her properties.  She has plenty of stories of the corruption of local officials, such as one who failed to pay workers, stole all the money earned at a still state owned factory (from sales to the EU), and bought new vehicles for himself and family members, safely stored behind his state of the art security fence.  No one has come to investigate his case, or the tens of thousands of dollars workers at the factory he headed did not receive.  When this woman visits her ancestral village, she sees old women on the banks of the river, picking up deadwood to store and heat their homes, as no one can afford heat.  She also told him that in many of those villages, there is no electricity, it's been cut as no one can pay for it.  Given Ukraine receives Western subsidies for these things, where does that money disappear??

These are ordinary Ukrainians who are mostly living on average Ukrainian salaries.  The better half does send money to immediate family, but not significant amounts because his past experience is that draws attention from official sources that causes all sorts of problems.  His mother certainly disagrees with your perception of the "less corrupt" Ukraine.  Her comment - "I have not witnessed this level of theft since the end of WWII."  She then went on to describe a litany of corruption, all at official levels, experienced by the average Ukrainian. 

Finally, I will say that for 27 years, I have always hoped for improvements in Ukraine, and argued with the better half about how things are "changing"  He has always scoffed at my "Western naivete", and has always told me how things would shake out. including after Maidan.  I have to say, in 27 years, he has never been wrong on this.  I used to tease him, telling him he should work as a CIA analyst due to his accuracy.  He would tell you he knows this because he lived with, and was the victim of, the very politicians now in charge of the country, and his very survival was contingent on knowing how they think.  He has said that at least under the communists, their greedy excesses were curbed by Moscow.  Now, that doesn't happen.  You will never, as a privileged foreigner, be subject to the humiliations average Ukrainians face, nor the small amounts of graft still occurring to get things done.
 
« Last Edit: May 13, 2018, 02:37:35 PM by Boethius »
After the fall of communism, the biggest mistake Boris Yeltsin's regime made was not to disband the KGB altogether. Instead it changed its name to the FSB and, to many observers, morphed into a gangster organisation, eventually headed by master criminal Vladimir Putin. - Gerard Batten

Offline alex330

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Re: Ukraine Travel Warning Dec. 14 2016
« Reply #34 on: May 11, 2018, 11:30:07 PM »
Surgeries?  Sure, they are paid for by the state for the average Ukrainian.  However, if you actually want that surgery, you better have dollars for the surgeon, plus the nurses.  Otherwise, you will die waiting for the surgery, and even if you receive the operation, you will receive no post operative treatment. They are more fortunate than some of their friends in the same situation, as they have the better half to send money thereby ensuring their treatment.  The last time this occurred was about six weeks ago.  Is that recent enough for you?

Yea, pretty much how it works from my experience. One of our family members was hospitalized last year. The hospital decided knew could not pay so opted for the bare minimum to keep him alive. Mother in law had to go to hospital to bring medicine bought at the pharmacy, clean his feces and bed pan, and slip the nurses some extra money just to look in on him. He would have festered with infection and died otherwise.

One of my wife's gf father just passed away. He was better off than most and still could not afford adequate care. Cancer took him where here in the US he may have lived.

Offline JayH

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Re: Ukraine Travel Warning Dec. 14 2016
« Reply #35 on: May 12, 2018, 12:31:58 AM »
My information comes from two sources - my last visit to Ukraine in the summer of 2017, and my husband's visits several times a year, the last, within the last two months.  Is that recent enough for you?
 

My comments are based on what I see - and hear.
I am not disputing that corruption is a huge problem and potentially can steal a future from Ukrainians.
What I am saying --is that there have been changes -- and I am NOT saying the problem has had a miraculous solution.What has moved a little-- is that some people-- that is some- see and understand the depth of the problem.

I well appreciate that I am an outsider -and always will be -- but- I do talk to some that have the potential  to  change a lot.
Often-- having outside eyes and looking at the problem a different way--is not a disadvantage. So far -the first wave of reformers after Maidan have been squashed --- mostly -- they have not given up after being sidelined.

However , the quickest way to depose the old ways would be a charismatic leader that could pull the energy of Maidan behind him/her.
Originally, I had hoped the US would provide a key -- by trading the removal of the old ways for a guarantee of Ukrainian sovereignty.
Reform or stand alone -- simple enough in principle. Obama squandered the opportunity-- and Trump wants to appease Putin and Russia -- so for at least the time being --none of that is possible.

I do not agree that it  is impossible to solve this problem.
« Last Edit: May 12, 2018, 12:36:12 AM by JayH »
SLAVA UKRAYINI  ! HEROYAM SLAVA!!!!
Слава Украине! Слава героям слава!Слава Україні! Слава героям!
 translated as: Glory to Ukraine! Glory to the heroes!!!  is a Ukrainian greeting slogan being used now all over Ukraine to signify support for a free independent Ukraine

Online krimster2

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Re: Ukraine Travel Warning Dec. 14 2016
« Reply #36 on: May 12, 2018, 07:45:18 AM »
“Also note -- a an action being attributed  that I did not say . The attempt to misrepresent my actual experiences and in particular my comment -
The attempt to misrepresent my position is dishonest.”

Good grief Jay WTF?
why do you want to turn the little grain of sarcasm I hurled towards you into a mountain?
did I “wound you” Jay?

“a comment made to illustrate that Krimster comments were a supposed to me his personal experience-- which he now concedes they were not-- by way of comparison-- mine were different and first hand.
So -- I note again that you very deliberately decline to state when you were last in Ukraine -- and when the experience you refer to actually happened.”

actually, Jay, what I said, was that I rarely went personally to Ovir
which means exactly what it says, sometimes I went and sometimes delegated to someone else
either case outcome was the same -  so back to being irrelevant
beside my comment was only about Ovir, I paid THEM just to avoid the long line
I had a business in Ukraine Jay, I had to pay a Krisha like every other business does
I also wanted to own a boat and have it sit in a marina without it being stolen
there were so many bribes and krishas that had to be paid to do this I gave up

in concluding...
as previously answered several times, “it’s completely irrelevant” when I was last there
 it is 100% irrelevant for someone like Bo’s husband when he was last there, and you understand WHY it is irrelevant for him, and whether you accept this or not this reason applies to me as well...

the current state of Ukraine’s corruption is as easy to verify as it is to verify that water is wet
it’s actually independent of ME making the observation and when I did it

your argument of how Ukraine has changed post Maidan is that “some people” are dissatisfied with the level of corruption in Ukraine..

exactly like they were in 2004 for the Orange Revolution!
it literally is a word for word repeat
and somehow this seems like change to you?

meanwhile EVERY POSSIBLE SOURCE will tell you that corruption in Ukraine has not slowed down in the slightest, EVERY POSSIBLE SOURCE

(sarcasm alert)
but to Jay this doesn’t matter, because he’s hearing people in Ukraine repeat EXACTLY what they were saying in 2004, but because Jay didn’t hear it then, he think’s this is “change”

 

Offline Trenchcoat

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Re: Ukraine Travel Warning Dec. 14 2016
« Reply #37 on: May 12, 2018, 02:23:29 PM »
The average Ukrainian sounds like a load of pussies giving out money to anyone that asks for it. No wonder the country is a basket case. If someone came up to me wanting a bribe they would not get very far, I'lld deck the fucker if needs be.
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Offline Boethius

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Re: Ukraine Travel Warning Dec. 14 2016
« Reply #38 on: May 12, 2018, 03:34:11 PM »
The first wave came, plundered the country, then took the proceeds offshore and left.

The second wave came, plundered the country, then took the proceeds offshore and left.

The third wave came, plundered the country, then took the proceeds offshore and left.

The fourth wave came, plundered the country, then took the proceeds offshore and left.

Ukraine is now experiencing the fifth wave, who are mostly bottom dwellers.  It's more difficult for them to plunder, as so much has already been stolen.  So they will try to hang on.


The problem with rooting out corruption in Ukraine is that, unlike in the West, it is pervasive there, existing from the bottom to the top.  You can't just "kill" it on one level.  Ukraine would need a Stalin like leader for corruption to cease to exist. 

The average Ukrainian sounds like a load of pussies giving out money to anyone that asks for it. No wonder the country is a basket case. If someone came up to me wanting a bribe they would not get very far, I'lld deck the fucker if needs be.
You couldn't even deal with a 20 something girl.  No way would you cope with a policeman.  By the way, you fail to pay them if they ask, and they come, with friends, to you later, to teach you a lesson.  I've known foreigners this has happened to.
« Last Edit: May 13, 2018, 02:38:19 PM by Boethius »
After the fall of communism, the biggest mistake Boris Yeltsin's regime made was not to disband the KGB altogether. Instead it changed its name to the FSB and, to many observers, morphed into a gangster organisation, eventually headed by master criminal Vladimir Putin. - Gerard Batten

Online krimster2

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Re: Ukraine Travel Warning Dec. 14 2016
« Reply #39 on: May 12, 2018, 04:10:28 PM »
it is always a matter of convenience to simply just pay the bribe
exercising any other alternative would not be worth it...

trench, I wouldn’t recommend fighting with Ukrainian malchicks
after they kick your jhoppa, the police will arrest YOU and demand the exact amount of money they found in your wallet for your release...

it only gets worse from there buddy
so when necessary fork it over and smile

the average tourist can avoid bribery because they have very limited exposure to Ukrainian officials

but even then there are some interesting cases of corruption in Ukraine
like “admission price” on museums, extra charge for pictures, etc


Offline Boethius

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Re: Ukraine Travel Warning Dec. 14 2016
« Reply #40 on: May 12, 2018, 04:56:14 PM »
Tickets are heavily subsidized for Ukrainians. Foreigners should pay more.
After the fall of communism, the biggest mistake Boris Yeltsin's regime made was not to disband the KGB altogether. Instead it changed its name to the FSB and, to many observers, morphed into a gangster organisation, eventually headed by master criminal Vladimir Putin. - Gerard Batten

Online krimster2

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Re: Ukraine Travel Warning Dec. 14 2016
« Reply #41 on: May 12, 2018, 05:00:16 PM »
but the money goes into the directors pocket and not the museum's
in Ukraine controlling an asset is like owning it, you can still use it to make money for yourself
so every "Direktor" has their little "side businesses"
 

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Re: Ukraine Travel Warning Dec. 14 2016
« Reply #42 on: May 12, 2018, 05:07:59 PM »
It was that way in Soviet times as well. That money does get distributed.
After the fall of communism, the biggest mistake Boris Yeltsin's regime made was not to disband the KGB altogether. Instead it changed its name to the FSB and, to many observers, morphed into a gangster organisation, eventually headed by master criminal Vladimir Putin. - Gerard Batten

Offline BdHvA

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Re: Ukraine Travel Warning Dec. 14 2016
« Reply #43 on: May 12, 2018, 06:09:45 PM »
The problem with rooting out corruption in Ukraine is that, unlike in the West, it is pervasive there, existing from the bottom to the top.  You can't just "kill" it on one level.  Ukraine would need a Stalin like leader for corruption to cease to exist.  Ukrainians take that mentality with them abroad.

What Boethuis and Krimster notes and hints at is sadly quite true based on my observations. Ukraine unfortunately with all its potential is stuck in some sort of purgatory. It failed to make the basic reforms that countries such as Poland and other countries in the Soviet orbit/control did, on the other hand it has never found a leader such as Putin to steer the country. The will of the people is one thing the actions of the 'leaders' are another reality.

For the good order last year I spent some 200 days in Kiev.

Trenchcoat please do not escalate a dispute with an Ukraine police officer. You will loose.
Experierence is not what happens to you. It is what you do with what happens to you. A. Huxley

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Re: Ukraine Travel Warning Dec. 14 2016
« Reply #44 on: May 13, 2018, 12:20:27 AM »
it is always a matter of convenience to simply just pay the bribe
exercising any other alternative would not be worth it...

trench, I wouldn’t recommend fighting with Ukrainian malchicks
after they kick your jhoppa, the police will arrest YOU and demand the exact amount of money they found in your wallet for your release...

it only gets worse from there buddy
so when necessary fork it over and smile

the average tourist can avoid bribery because they have very limited exposure to Ukrainian officials

but even then there are some interesting cases of corruption in Ukraine
like “admission price” on museums, extra charge for pictures, etc

Don't be so weak Krimster, go through them all. If people stood up for themselves these crooks would soon realise it's not worth their effort. It's because it's so easy that it happens.
"If you make your own bread, then and only then, are you a free man unchained and alive living in pooty tang paradise, or say no and live in Incel island with all the others." - Krimster

Offline Trenchcoat

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Re: Ukraine Travel Warning Dec. 14 2016
« Reply #45 on: May 13, 2018, 12:25:43 AM »
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You couldn't even deal with a 20 something girl.  No way would you cope with a policeman.  By the way, you fail to pay them if they ask, and they come, with friends, to you later, to teach you a lesson.  I've known foreigners this has happened to.

Women are different & that was different.

The answer is to be ready for them and take the fight to them. Good that the foreigners you know stood their ground even if they got their ass kicked the crooks will learn foreigners are not such an easy target. If a Police officer asks for a bribe he is no Police Officer at all, just a crook in fancy dress.
"If you make your own bread, then and only then, are you a free man unchained and alive living in pooty tang paradise, or say no and live in Incel island with all the others." - Krimster

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Re: Ukraine Travel Warning Dec. 14 2016
« Reply #46 on: May 13, 2018, 12:48:53 AM »
I didn’t post he fought back. He only stayed alive because he was a government official, and his death would have had serious diplomatic repercussions for the Ukrainian government. There are plenty of stories of idiot foreigners like you, who left Ukraine in coffins. But in each case, they first received warnings they ignored.
After the fall of communism, the biggest mistake Boris Yeltsin's regime made was not to disband the KGB altogether. Instead it changed its name to the FSB and, to many observers, morphed into a gangster organisation, eventually headed by master criminal Vladimir Putin. - Gerard Batten

Offline Trenchcoat

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Re: Ukraine Travel Warning Dec. 14 2016
« Reply #47 on: May 13, 2018, 01:57:32 AM »
I didn’t post he fought back. He only stayed alive because he was a government official, and his death would have had serious diplomatic repercussions for the Ukrainian government. There are plenty of stories of idiot foreigners like you, who left Ukraine in coffins. But in each case, they first received warnings they ignored.

No doubt some foreigners have put corrupt Ukrainians into coffins also.
"If you make your own bread, then and only then, are you a free man unchained and alive living in pooty tang paradise, or say no and live in Incel island with all the others." - Krimster

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Re: Ukraine Travel Warning Dec. 14 2016
« Reply #48 on: May 13, 2018, 02:02:23 AM »
I doubt that.

A number of years ago, some foreigners, Chechen criminals, made demands of authorities while holed up on the roof of a building. The response of Ukrainian authorities was to blow up the building.

Once again you have no idea what you’re talking about.
« Last Edit: May 13, 2018, 02:39:11 PM by Boethius »
After the fall of communism, the biggest mistake Boris Yeltsin's regime made was not to disband the KGB altogether. Instead it changed its name to the FSB and, to many observers, morphed into a gangster organisation, eventually headed by master criminal Vladimir Putin. - Gerard Batten

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Re: Ukraine Travel Warning Dec. 14 2016
« Reply #49 on: May 13, 2018, 02:46:16 AM »
I doubt that.

A number of years ago, so me foreigners, Chechen criminals, made demands of authorities while holed up on the roof of a building. The response of Ukrainian authorities was to blow up the building.

Once again you have no idea what you’re talking about.

So you tell me no Ukrainian hasn't demanded money from a foreigner and never had the foreigner slap them one.
"If you make your own bread, then and only then, are you a free man unchained and alive living in pooty tang paradise, or say no and live in Incel island with all the others." - Krimster

 

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