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Author Topic: The Struggle For Ukraine  (Read 287613 times)

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Offline Chelseaboy

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The Struggle For Ukraine
« Reply #200 on: January 19, 2022, 12:06:32 PM »
Wow....10-15,000 Americans living in Ukraine.


I wonder how many to get killed by Russian invading troops/Airstrikes to get USA troops on the ground there ?
Just saying it like it is.

Offline GQBlues

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The Struggle For Ukraine
« Reply #201 on: January 19, 2022, 12:43:35 PM »

Doesn't the Budapest Memorandum make this a USA and UK affair ?

Exactly. Neither countries should not have instigated, involved itself and participated in the 2014 Ukraine instability that prompted the civil war. To believe moving to expand NATO in Russia's doorstep and not have Russia consider that a threat to its sovereignty, is being shortsighted and not consider what the US did in the Cuban missile crisis.

Quote
and no, as i've stated on here before, i don't want my 23 year-old son sent out there to fight.

As it should be.


Quote
It is illogical to assume that Moscow should view comparable Western machinations differently. The blunt truth is that the United States and its allies intruded into a traditional Russian sphere of influence—indeed, into a zone that Moscow considers essential to national security. U.S. leaders should recognize that their conduct has violated an implicit Russian equivalent of the Monroe Doctrine. The West needs to back off before it triggers what former Soviet leader Mikhail Gorbachev aptly described in a recent speech as a new Cold War.
http://www.defenseone.com/ideas/2014/12/us-needs-recognize-russias-monroe-doctrine/100557/

The 4 Principle of the Monroe Doctrine:

1. The United States would remain neutral in European affairs and not get involved in European conflicts.
2. The United States would not interfere with current European colonies in the Western Hemisphere.
3. No European nation would be allowed to establish a new colony in the Western Hemisphere.
4. If a European nation would try to interfere with a nation in the Western Hemisphere, the United States would view that as a hostile act and respond accordingly.

The US still regard this doctrine as valid as recently as the '90s.
« Last Edit: January 19, 2022, 01:51:07 PM by GQBlues »
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Offline Trenchcoat

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The Struggle For Ukraine
« Reply #202 on: January 19, 2022, 03:55:53 PM »

Doesn't the Budapest Memorandum make this a USA and UK affair ?


and no, as i've stated on here before, i don't want my 23 year-old son sent out there to fight.

I'm not sure on the ins & outs either of the Budapest Memorandum. It sounds like to me all sides, US, UK, RUSSIA, etc just all jointly agreed to keep out of Ukraine. Obviously Russia is threatening to ignore that agreement with their invasion and has already done so to sone extent with their involvement in East Ukraine and takeover in Crimea. So the 'assurances' given that all would keep out of Ukraine were essentially useless. For once I'm feeling sorry for Ukrainians being duped into such a foolish move, thought they were more streetwise than that, feel they have kind of been played for fools.

Anyhow from the brief stuff I've read don't think there was necessarily anything to underpin it or others coming to their aid. Sounds like it was all about good intentions that amount to not very much.

I personally would be in favour of sending all our fat women over there. They can bear their flabby rears at the Russians until they can take no more and be forced to withdraw >:(
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Offline Trenchcoat

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The Struggle For Ukraine
« Reply #203 on: January 19, 2022, 04:04:47 PM »
Wow....10-15,000 Americans living in Ukraine.


I wonder how many to get killed by Russian invading troops/Airstrikes to get USA troops on the ground there ?

I'm surprised there are so many Americans living in Ukraine, guess it must have caught on among them how lovely it is for the women there. With a good income/independent income a good life can be had there. There a guy can be way up the pecking order with the women on what is just a low or average salary in the UK/US.

I'm guessing the Americans and any other foreigners will flee beforehand or when it happens (assuming it happens). I think we can safely assume a fair amount will be caught unawares and be there when/if it all goes down and wonder why there are always those types around. It will be like in the movies with the US guys shouting out that they are American citizens and waving their passports around as if of high importance and as if anyone cares.
"If you make your own bread, then and only then, are you a free man unchained and alive living in pooty tang paradise, or say no and live in Incel island with all the others." - Krimster

Offline Trenchcoat

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The Struggle For Ukraine
« Reply #204 on: January 19, 2022, 04:33:24 PM »
Latest is that Russia could send more troops to the Ukrainian border which of course they could having more than a million soldiers to call upon:

http://news.sky.com/story/amp/ukraine-us-warns-russia-could-double-troop-numbers-on-border-at-short-notice-and-launch-attack-12520202

Other than that it looks like they are sending six large naval ships to the Black Sea/Ukraine. They've just passed the UK and it's pretty certain they are going that way.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10417951/Six-Russian-landing-ships-sail-past-Britain-sparking-speculation-bound-Ukraine.html


My guess is that if the Russians invade Kyiv and Kharkiv will be primary targets as both are real bear the Russian border so large key cities to take that are close with reach. Kyiv important as the largest city, capital and seat of power, Kharkiv as second largest city and tank manufacturer as I'm sure we all know. With both cities being so close to the Russian border odds on they will fall first and pretty quickly. In which case I can rest easy calling Kyiv, Kiev again and Kharkiv, Kharkov ;D. Unfortunately for Ukraine the geography as an independent state doesn't seem to favour them with an attack from Russia. Losing your two biggest cities likely within days if not hours is not good. If they are strong enough to keep them away and get the Russians bogged down then they will be doing very well I think but that I think is probably highly unlikely.

After that there is Odessa but I believe Russia still has some troops around Moldova, Nikolaev & Kherson are near Crimea so all three probably won't last long. Possibly if Ukraine can hold up the Russians in the bottleneck in Crimea they might slow them but it looks like the Russians may do amphibious landings, possibly parachute drops. That just leaves Central and western Ukraine and while a few fairly large cities there not a lot to work with. Odds are Russia may well start with missile attacks which Ukraine apparently doesn't have a lot of defence against then they'll move in with their troops if it all goes ahead. I can't personally see why they would be going to all this bother just for posturing.

I personally think Ukraine's military would likely fold pretty quickly under such an onslaught. Being blown to bits by missiles first then the heavy Russian armour moves in. Odds are what little may be left of Ukraine's army may run in the face of such overwhelming firepower and destruction. It could all be over fairly swiftly within a week or so with little time or ability for Ukraine to call forward reserves because of Russia's army advancing so quickly. That how I would see it likely unfolding I think.

Personally I would much rather Ukraine go on existing as an independent state. I personally think they would be best being given sone nukes back for that to happen. Unfortunately that would likely breach the nuclear non-proliferation treaty.
"If you make your own bread, then and only then, are you a free man unchained and alive living in pooty tang paradise, or say no and live in Incel island with all the others." - Krimster

Offline Chelseaboy

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The Struggle For Ukraine
« Reply #205 on: January 19, 2022, 04:54:22 PM »
I'm surprised there are so many Americans living in Ukraine, guess it must have caught on among them how lovely it is for the women there. With a good income/independent income a good life can be had there. There a guy can be way up the pecking order with the women on what is just a low or average salary in the UK/US.

I'm guessing the Americans and any other foreigners will flee beforehand or when it happens (assuming it happens). I think we can safely assume a fair amount will be caught unawares and be there when/if it all goes down and wonder why there are always those types around. It will be like in the movies with the US guys shouting out that they are American citizens and waving their passports around as if of high importance and as if anyone cares.


Well the Americans are not living there for the lovely climate are they.


I've been in Kiev in November and it was freezing with the wind cutting through you like a knife..flew back to London and everyone was wearing t-shirts and shorts in the warm sunshine.


Seems Ukraine has become the new Thailand,presumably with Odessa as the new Bangkok,full of old and fat Americans shacked up with young strippers ( bar girls ).
Just saying it like it is.

Offline rwd123

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The Struggle For Ukraine
« Reply #206 on: January 19, 2022, 05:19:29 PM »
I'm no military strategist but there's questionable value in an armed invasion so I doubt it.

The primary intent of the RF is to repel NATO. With an existing internal conflict and dishonoring of the Minsk Protocol, Ukraine cannot become a member of NATO. A similar but not identical incident occurred with Georgia back in 2008.

In an all-out war the RF is equipped with operational hypersonic missiles and ICBMS, and has the world's best air defense systems (S-500). It's also shown itself to be competent in Syria (particularly in comparison to the USA military). Europe would be screwed as it would collapse economically with no Russian energy. The RF economy is more resilient due to existing sanctions so, while it would suffer, comparatively would be better placed. Current inflationary pressures may push the price of energy products (oil, gas) well above current prices. RF prefers hybrid warfare using propaganda, cyber attacks, demographics, and trade flows. China does the same thing, as does the USA (though less in terms of demographics). Both sides will prefer to play dirty games than enter a hot war.

Western powers are prodding the RF as the global banking system is utterly broken, western countries are indebted and failing. They need to create enemies - either with an invisible enemy (Covid and "anti-vaxxers") or a visible one ("evil Russians"). Don't worry you won't own anything and you'll like it as your immune system is utterly destroyed after your seventh booster shot.

This is a conflict provoked by the West that will ultimately be won by the East. Blinken and co. are playing a game of chicken... who do you think will blink first?






Offline Trenchcoat

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The Struggle For Ukraine
« Reply #207 on: January 19, 2022, 05:31:27 PM »

Well the Americans are not living there for the lovely climate are they.


I've been in Kiev in November and it was freezing with the wind cutting through you like a knife..flew back to London and everyone was wearing t-shirts and shorts in the warm sunshine.


Seems Ukraine has become the new Thailand,presumably with Odessa as the new Bangkok,full of old and fat Americans shacked up with young strippers ( bar girls ).

Odessa draws many Americans, I went there a few years ago and saw a fair few Americans obviously out to try their luck. The cities on the coast can have a climate more like the UK during the winter but Kyiv being further to the north likely less so. Odessa's advantage tends to be that many Turks visit which few Ukrainian girls like, even despise so us western guys can come off as a way more attractive option. As usual there is the industry girls and scammers which is supposedly big there but apart from possibly Lviv/western Ukraine is elsewhere, Nikolaev, Kyiv, Kharkiv probably Kherson. Odessa has a lovely feel to it and a nice beach, though a bit overcrowded, etc. If I were living abroad in Ukraine it would likely be where I would base myself, not too far to the border if the Russians attack and there is time to drive, train or run for it, good weather, the beach, good shops, pretty enough looking in the city centre, just about large enough to get a fair amount of women up or get some across from Nikolaev, Kherson, etc.

By comparison Lviv a nice touristy medieval city centre but no beach, a bit too small to get many women up and risk of Russian armies quickly coming down from Belarus even though near the Polish border. No other reasonably large cities nearby to get many girls up and fewer interested in leaving due to it being Ukraine's patriotic centre and nice natural surroundings, a slight western feel to the city.

Kiev very Urban city like, I like it but I prefer Odessa more I think, been there a few times now. A lot of the women there are more wealthy so likely expecting more, big city life. Some living on the outskirts be ok. Likely to be over run pretty fast as so close to the Russian border so mass panic likely to ensue possibly be hit by many missiles also so I would avoid.

Above all I wouldn't risk a plane journey out a very high risk gamble with life if any do indeed fly, very likely to get shot down by the Russians.
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Offline Trenchcoat

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The Struggle For Ukraine
« Reply #208 on: January 19, 2022, 06:09:45 PM »
I'm no military strategist but there's questionable value in an armed invasion so I doubt it.

The primary intent of the RF is to repel NATO. With an existing internal conflict and dishonoring of the Minsk Protocol, Ukraine cannot become a member of NATO. A similar but not identical incident occurred with Georgia back in 2008.

In an all-out war the RF is equipped with operational hypersonic missiles and ICBMS, and has the world's best air defense systems (S-500). It's also shown itself to be competent in Syria (particularly in comparison to the USA military). Europe would be screwed as it would collapse economically with no Russian energy. The RF economy is more resilient due to existing sanctions so, while it would suffer, comparatively would be better placed. Current inflationary pressures may push the price of energy products (oil, gas) well above current prices. RF prefers hybrid warfare using propaganda, cyber attacks, demographics, and trade flows. China does the same thing, as does the USA (though less in terms of demographics). Both sides will prefer to play dirty games than enter a hot war.

Western powers are prodding the RF as the global banking system is utterly broken, western countries are indebted and failing. They need to create enemies - either with an invisible enemy (Covid and "anti-vaxxers") or a visible one ("evil Russians"). Don't worry you won't own anything and you'll like it as your immune system is utterly destroyed after your seventh booster shot.

This is a conflict provoked by the West that will ultimately be won by the East. Blinken and co. are playing a game of chicken... who do you think will blink first?

I disagree, while Russia enjoys it's game of dirty tricks I think Putin is eager to use his shiny new army. Most of Russia's old Soviet weaponry has been replaced by the latest advanced weaponry. I would guess Russia is at the height of its military rejuvenation of its replacement of old equipment with new equipment. The west the impression I get is in a more piecemeal situation, some older stuff, some newer, both varying capability. Added to that they have said they won't send in NATO troops. While that keeps us out of a WWIII situation (for now most likely) it means that Russia is presented with an almost certain clear decisive win if they go into Ukraine. Notice Russia hasn't backed off or stayed the same since they made this announcement but has in fact increased its military presence around Ukraine, ships sent to Black Sea, military sent for war games exercises in Belarus, more troops overall, etc. It's basically giving Putin the green light to attack Ukraine. Putin is getting towards being an old man now at 69 and after ruling Russia for 20 years he wants to get somewhere with it all aside a better economy and a few small gains. His looking for his place in the history books and for that taking back lost territory as he likely sees it is the sure way to do it.

You're right in the west's back being up against the wall with its indebtedness, the US couldn't afford to go on in Afghanistan so it tells Putin they can't afford a military adventure in Ukraine for long. The rest of the west is in much the same situation, the EU just can't get it together, it never really has effectively much on any front but it can't even agree with itself or members on a tiny army of a few thousand men that would be largely be way too small anyway. It has an agreement if one member is attached the rest will go to it's aid. I don't think Putin will attack an EU country as NATO tends to cover some EU countries anyway so it would likely bring the whole lot against him. I don't think he's too bothered about them, they are small each alone and not necessarily that Russian, Ukraine however I think is very much in his sights.

My guess is that after Ukraine, Georgia will be next, soft easy targets first.
« Last Edit: January 19, 2022, 06:17:12 PM by Trenchcoat »
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Offline Trenchcoat

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The Struggle For Ukraine
« Reply #209 on: January 19, 2022, 06:27:45 PM »
Current UK travel advice for Ukraine:

29th Dec 2021 - valid to today

"Since late March 2021, there has been a pattern of Russian military build-ups near Ukraine’s eastern border and in illegally annexed Crimea. Since the beginning of November 2021 there has been significant media coverage of heightened tensions between Russia and Ukraine.

The situation in Kyiv and other areas outside Donetsk and Luhansk is generally calm. However, events in Ukraine are fast moving. Make sure you are ready to change your plans quickly if you need to. You should remain vigilant throughout Ukraine, monitor the media and this travel advice regularly, subscribe to email alerts and read our advice on how to deal with a crisis overseas. You should keep your departure plans under close review. Renewed military action anywhere in Ukraine would greatly reduce British Embassy Kyiv’s ability to provide consular support."

Personally I think it should just say do not travel and get out if already in Ukraine. It does however say you need to try and get out quick if needed although the situation may be fast moving. Also as a result can't necessarily rely on embassy support.
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Offline fathertime

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The Struggle For Ukraine
« Reply #210 on: January 19, 2022, 08:03:47 PM »
I'm no military strategist but there's questionable value in an armed invasion so I doubt it.

The primary intent of the RF is to repel NATO. With an existing internal conflict and dishonoring of the Minsk Protocol, Ukraine cannot become a member of NATO. A similar but not identical incident occurred with Georgia back in 2008.

In an all-out war the RF is equipped with operational hypersonic missiles and ICBMS, and has the world's best air defense systems (S-500). It's also shown itself to be competent in Syria (particularly in comparison to the USA military). Europe would be screwed as it would collapse economically with no Russian energy. The RF economy is more resilient due to existing sanctions so, while it would suffer, comparatively would be better placed. Current inflationary pressures may push the price of energy products (oil, gas) well above current prices. RF prefers hybrid warfare using propaganda, cyber attacks, demographics, and trade flows. China does the same thing, as does the USA (though less in terms of demographics). Both sides will prefer to play dirty games than enter a hot war.

Western powers are prodding the RF as the global banking system is utterly broken, western countries are indebted and failing. They need to create enemies - either with an invisible enemy (Covid and "anti-vaxxers") or a visible one ("evil Russians"). Don't worry you won't own anything and you'll like it as your immune system is utterly destroyed after your seventh booster shot.

This is a conflict provoked by the West that will ultimately be won by the East. Blinken and co. are playing a game of chicken... who do you think will blink first?

I agree with this analysis.  The US enjoys creating trouble for russia and provoking.  Probably part of their plan to disrupt Nordstream 2.  That way, we can sell our products for higher prices. 

In addition, I suspect Russia could unleash a blitzkrieg and level practically all of Ukraine before even entering the country if it wanted to.    The worldwide consequences would be too great for them to do that though.
 

Fathertime!   
I just happened to be browsing about the internet....

Offline Trenchcoat

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« Reply #211 on: January 20, 2022, 12:43:01 AM »
I agree with this analysis.  The US enjoys creating trouble for russia and provoking.  Probably part of their plan to disrupt Nordstream 2.  That way, we can sell our products for higher prices. 

In addition, I suspect Russia could unleash a blitzkrieg and level practically all of Ukraine before even entering the country if it wanted to.    The worldwide consequences would be too great for them to do that though.
 

Fathertime!   

Blitzkrieg is exactly what I think the Russians have on their cards and what they will do. They have the forces built up just for that. They don't care about the international community, they have a big enough internal market they already have sanctions so more won't harm them that much possibly the west such as Germany just as much. I fire see them hammering Ukrainian forces with missiles all at once everywhere. They may even hit the cities, if they do it will likely be all of the big major ones all at the same time. Ukraine forces won't know what hit them. The tanks and army and the rest will then move in and Ukraine will be hit so hard and fast they won't have time to regroup and organise reserves, panic will ensue and they'll flee.

Ukrainians are presently thinking under the assumption that they have already been fighting Russia's army since 2014. I think they vastly underestimate what Russia's army is really like, they haven't really been hit by their army to date, no big missiles, very few heavy tanks, etc. When/if they do they are going to be annilalated fast in very large numbers. I don't think they'll withstand it.

If anything Ukraine needs to bring up all its reserves now possibly even conscription to have the armies behind the front line armies ready which it will need. It will also need to space these troops out so they aren't taken out all in one by a missile. In addition they should organise guerilla groups of fighters, cells led by at least one trained army guy if not more of local population volunteers. Have stashes of weapons located in fairly remote locations in the ground that only the cell leaders will know where they are. Once Ukraine is over run by Russia these cells become active and move to action. Make Ukraine like another Afghanistan is the only way to do it I reckon.

Putin doesn't want to see Ukraine become any sort of NATO linked state. He'll see the only way to do that is to attack and conquer Ukraine. Trust me odds are that he'll move in. Ukraine's army as it stands at the moment is still way too weak to withstand a Russian attack they really need to throw everything they've got into it now to stand any chance. 40 something odd million people in Ukraine and most of them are complacently sat on their todd, the Ukrainian government need to get them into action.
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Offline Chelseaboy

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The Struggle For Ukraine
« Reply #212 on: January 20, 2022, 06:05:32 AM »
I don't see a blitzkrieg where major cities in Ukraine would be targeted.


The reason being there are probably millions of pro-Russians/Russians living in those cities and killing them would cause huge ramifications for Putin..with riots in Russia's cities.


It would make him a target of assassination attempts for sure.


Imagine you're a Russian in Moscow with family in Ukraine and Putin has just wiped them out..how would you react ?


I know how i'd react.
Just saying it like it is.

Offline Chelseaboy

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The Struggle For Ukraine
« Reply #213 on: January 20, 2022, 11:39:38 AM »
The UK is understood to have gifted 2000 of The Next Generation Light Anti-Tank Weapon ( NLAW),which is described by its manufacturers as "the first ever single soldier missile system that rapidly knocks out any main battle Tank in just one shot by striking it from above "to Ukraine this week.


So,that will be the Russian Tanks out of the game...their Tank crews will be crapping themselves right about now : ))



Russia ain't happy about it LOL.


The Russian Embassy to the UK posted on twitter "It is crystal clear that UK shipment of lethal weapons to Ukraine will only fuel the crisis ".


As if them sticking 100,000 troops on the Ukrainian border hadn't already fueled the crisis. :rolleyes:


So come on USA we're doing our bit..it's time for you to step up too instead of your President saying he believes Russia is going to invade Ukraine and doing nothing about it....or is your leader going to dither and show Putin how weak the President of the USA truly is.?
« Last Edit: January 20, 2022, 11:49:29 AM by Chelseaboy »
Just saying it like it is.

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The Struggle For Ukraine
« Reply #214 on: January 20, 2022, 01:40:04 PM »
As if them sticking 100,000 troops on the Ukrainian border hadn't already fueled the crisis. :rolleyes:


So come on USA we're doing our bit..it's time for you to step up too instead of your President saying he believes Russia is going to invade Ukraine and doing nothing about it....or is your leader going to dither and show Putin how weak the President of the USA truly is.?

The US should give a sh1t about this, or Ukraine, because...?

Do you honestly believe your country, or the US, would tempt a bloody conventional war at the least, or worst a nuclear war - over Ukraine? LMAO!

Elaborate your response please. Especially since Germany had already expressed no interest in any diplomatic or any type of economic sanctioning - much less military assistance (despite the EU primarily benefitting and salivating over the economic potential at getting Ukraine's consumers) against Russia - regardless of what RF does.
« Last Edit: January 20, 2022, 01:42:50 PM by GQBlues »
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« Reply #215 on: January 20, 2022, 02:45:28 PM »
The US should give a sh1t about this, or Ukraine, because...?



Because of the Budapest Memorandum.


Or are you happy for the rest of the World to realize the word of the USA is worthless regarding future talks with other countries  about Nuclear Arms de-escalation.?




« Last Edit: January 20, 2022, 02:48:21 PM by Chelseaboy »
Just saying it like it is.

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The Struggle For Ukraine
« Reply #216 on: January 20, 2022, 02:54:59 PM »

Do you honestly believe your country, or the US, would tempt a bloody conventional war at the least, or worst a nuclear war - over Ukraine? LMAO!

Elaborate your response please. Especially since Germany had already expressed no interest in any diplomatic or any type of economic sanctioning - much less military assistance (despite the EU primarily benefitting and salivating over the economic potential at getting Ukraine's consumers) against Russia - regardless of what RF does.


As you're so concerned about a nuclear war ,just remember countries like North Korea will see how the USA stood by and let Russia take over Ukraine,IF the invasion happens, despite the Budapest Memorandum,,,,so NO chance of them ever giving up their Nuclear Arms as Ukraine did...making the World a more dangerous place.


Germany had no part in the Budapest Memorandum....the USA and the UK did.





That's why the USA needs to give a shit....maybe you need to read up on it.
« Last Edit: January 20, 2022, 03:04:25 PM by Chelseaboy »
Just saying it like it is.

Offline GQBlues

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The Struggle For Ukraine
« Reply #217 on: January 20, 2022, 04:17:03 PM »

Because of the Budapest Memorandum.

LMAO!

1. Budapest is a Nuclear Proliferation Treaty. Both the UK/US should have kept their noses off and not interfere in Ukraine's affairs. Their internal interference in 2014 Ukraine was a hostile act towards Russia.
2. Whether you realize this or not, if there ever was ANY SERIOUS interest in any military engagement with Russia because of any 'so-called' violation of the treaty', wake-up as there actually was a military conflict, and a territorial take-over of Ukraine back in 2014/2015. Did you see any UK/US enforcement of the treaty? LMAO!!!

Monroe Doctrine much?


Quote
Or are you happy for the rest of the World to realize the word of the USA is worthless regarding future talks with other countries  about Nuclear Arms de-escalation.?

You must've been napping under a snow cave in the polar region in recent 2-3 decades.

Besides, who the phuck cares what the 'world' thinks of the US.

Whatever happened to EUROs silly huffing and puffing 'no blood for oil' BS?
« Last Edit: January 20, 2022, 04:31:37 PM by GQBlues »
Quote from: msmob
1. Because of 'man', global warming is causing desert and arid areas to suffer long, dry spell.
2. The 2018 Camp Fire and Woolsey California wildfires are forests burning because of global warming.
3. N95 mask will choke you dead after 30 min. of use.

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« Reply #218 on: January 20, 2022, 04:18:16 PM »

As you're so concerned about a nuclear war ,just remember countries like North Korea will see how the USA stood by and let Russia take over Ukraine,IF the invasion happens, despite the Budapest Memorandum,,,,so NO chance of them ever giving up their Nuclear Arms as Ukraine did...making the World a more dangerous place.

Germany had no part in the Budapest Memorandum....the USA and the UK did.

That's why the USA needs to give a shit....maybe you need to read up on it.


LMAO!! Go send your kid ASAP! Show us your conviction dude! The Russians are coming!!!


« Last Edit: January 20, 2022, 04:30:13 PM by GQBlues »
Quote from: msmob
1. Because of 'man', global warming is causing desert and arid areas to suffer long, dry spell.
2. The 2018 Camp Fire and Woolsey California wildfires are forests burning because of global warming.
3. N95 mask will choke you dead after 30 min. of use.

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The Struggle For Ukraine
« Reply #219 on: January 20, 2022, 05:23:09 PM »
Sheeesh..even Ukrainians themselves are working with Russia!!! LMAO!

http://apnews.com/article/joe-biden-vladimir-putin-ukraine-europe-russia-9c2e340dc7f23f58c2b05391dae37275


To think Chelseaboy is dead set in sending his kid into this quagmire to prove his conviction, baby! Funny.
Quote from: msmob
1. Because of 'man', global warming is causing desert and arid areas to suffer long, dry spell.
2. The 2018 Camp Fire and Woolsey California wildfires are forests burning because of global warming.
3. N95 mask will choke you dead after 30 min. of use.

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« Reply #220 on: January 20, 2022, 05:29:17 PM »
I don't see a blitzkrieg where major cities in Ukraine would be targeted.


The reason being there are probably millions of pro-Russians/Russians living in those cities and killing them would cause huge ramifications for Putin..with riots in Russia's cities.


It would make him a target of assassination attempts for sure.


Imagine you're a Russian in Moscow with family in Ukraine and Putin has just wiped them out..how would you react ?


I know how i'd react.

For me 50/50 chance that they do or don't. Theoretically it's best to have reasonably intact cities and industry when taking over territory that way it's economy isn't smashed with you having to rebuild it. The way the population feels is another factor you highlight, they are going to hate Putin/Russia if they kill their family especially as civilians on the other hand it may I instill fear useful for control. Odds are it may make the region harder to control with resistance building up.

The history of Russia tends to them not giving much care however, in the 20s or 30s I think it was that Ukraine suffered a famine and many died as a result of early forced collectivisation failures. I don't think the Russians cared much about that. Then of course all the state repression of later years, surpressing the Cossacks etc. While many Ukrainians are ethnic Russians in the East they may well identify as Russian speaking Ukrainians. Putin is a cold KGB guy my guess is that he has little care for who they are, if they end up in the way with Ukrainian fighters seeking the cities for cover where there is more protection and can bed in to fight easier in the buildings then he could well let those missiles fly and be damned whether they hit soldiers or civilians.
"If you make your own bread, then and only then, are you a free man unchained and alive living in pooty tang paradise, or say no and live in Incel island with all the others." - Krimster

Offline Trenchcoat

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« Reply #221 on: January 20, 2022, 05:48:25 PM »
The UK is understood to have gifted 2000 of The Next Generation Light Anti-Tank Weapon ( NLAW),which is described by its manufacturers as "the first ever single soldier missile system that rapidly knocks out any main battle Tank in just one shot by striking it from above "to Ukraine this week.


So,that will be the Russian Tanks out of the game...their Tank crews will be crapping themselves right about now : ))



Russia ain't happy about it LOL.


The Russian Embassy to the UK posted on twitter "It is crystal clear that UK shipment of lethal weapons to Ukraine will only fuel the crisis ".


As if them sticking 100,000 troops on the Ukrainian border hadn't already fueled the crisis. :rolleyes:


So come on USA we're doing our bit..it's time for you to step up too instead of your President saying he believes Russia is going to invade Ukraine and doing nothing about it....or is your leader going to dither and show Putin how weak the President of the USA truly is.?

Those anti tank missiles/rocket launchers may help to up the casualties the Russians sustain and make it a harder, longer, bloodier fight. Many may well be taken out by Russia hitting Ukrainians army en-masse with missiles but with 2000 being gifted many soldiers with them might well avoid the missile strikes and be able to fire back when the Russian tanks roll forward.

Hopefully all this military weaponry we are gifting the Ukrainians will stand us eager young(ish) bucks in favour with Ukrainians if we ever get out there again ;D
"If you make your own bread, then and only then, are you a free man unchained and alive living in pooty tang paradise, or say no and live in Incel island with all the others." - Krimster

Offline Chelseaboy

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« Reply #222 on: January 20, 2022, 06:12:24 PM »
Sheeesh..even Ukrainians themselves are working with Russia!!! LMAO!

http://apnews.com/article/joe-biden-vladimir-putin-ukraine-europe-russia-9c2e340dc7f23f58c2b05391dae37275


To think Chelseaboy is dead set in sending his kid into this quagmire to prove his conviction, baby! Funny.


You seem to be shitting yourself over there..scared you'll get called-up and sent to Ukraine to fight ? LMAO.


Don't worry,seeing as you seem to lack reading comprehension,no-one is talking about NATO military engagement/ boots on the ground as part of the Budapest Memorandum....the USA and UK just needs to make sure the Ukrainians are armed sufficiently to defend themselves which the UK is doing.


As i said in the original post,before you started having your nervous breakdown about military engagements involving the USA and UK, when is the USA going to step up and do the same ?


By the way it's common knowledge there are plenty of pro-Russian Ukrainians in Ukraine...who do you think the Ukrainian troops have been fighting for the last eight years in Ukraine ?...Do keep up.LMAO.
« Last Edit: January 20, 2022, 06:30:22 PM by Chelseaboy »
Just saying it like it is.

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« Reply #223 on: January 20, 2022, 06:21:30 PM »

You seem to be shitting yourself over there..scared you'll get called-up and sent to Ukraine to fight ? LMAO.


Don't worry,seeing as you seem to lack reading comprehension,no-one is talking about NATO boots on the ground as part of the Budapest Memorandum....the USA and UK just needs to make sure the Ukrainians are armed sufficiently to defend themselves which the UK is doing.


As i said in the original post,before you started having your nervous breakdown, when is the USA going to step up and do the same ?
.

Another stuck in first gear. Speaking of reading comprehension issues, sheesh. Get with it, will you? LMAO!

That’s what happens when the mouth is faster than the brain. Wake up, you shouldn’t be opining over things that which you’re obviously clueless with.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/opinion/editorials/ct-edit-ukraine-20171226-story.html?outputType=amp
« Last Edit: January 20, 2022, 06:24:57 PM by GQBlues »
Quote from: msmob
1. Because of 'man', global warming is causing desert and arid areas to suffer long, dry spell.
2. The 2018 Camp Fire and Woolsey California wildfires are forests burning because of global warming.
3. N95 mask will choke you dead after 30 min. of use.

Offline Chelseaboy

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« Reply #224 on: January 20, 2022, 06:34:50 PM »
That was four years ago....and what's happened since ?


I assume you did check the date of that article ? LMAO.


The arms you supplied helped the Ukrainians to fight some pro-Russian terrorists,which the article clearly says ...talking about reading comprehension .LMAO


Where's the arms to fight 100,000 Russian troops and Tanks and Bombers and Fighter Aircraft ?


At the risk of repeating myself....do keep up.


Tick Tock.
« Last Edit: January 20, 2022, 06:44:55 PM by Chelseaboy »
Just saying it like it is.

 

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