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Author Topic: The Struggle For Ukraine  (Read 287394 times)

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Offline Trenchcoat

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The Struggle For Ukraine
« Reply #600 on: February 24, 2022, 03:18:27 PM »
I am curious as to what happens with this market if this conflict becomes a prolonged situation. Will the energy industry determine nations' resolve in this conflict, and for how long?


http://www.gazpromexport.ru/en/statistics/


Surprised to learn how much Gazprom export of their gas GQ, 78 percent is a hell of a lot for a big company like that. My thoughts are though that when a shortage is created prices rise so depends how long they are out of the European market for I guess. If only for so long they may not lose that much. My guess is that's why Putin has chosen to attack at the end of winter as it's the most lucrative time of the year so rather than a of winter. Plus his troops won't fancy being stuck outside in the depths of winter too long so now once invaded they are heading towards Spring even if that isn't all that warm out there it's no doubt better than winter.

I'm thinking the conflict won't go on long enough for the energy industry to start kicking off about it, it will likely be over in days. I think that will be part the reason that Putin will go for a puppet government in the hope of things calming down afterwards and Europe getting hooked up again to Russian gas.
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Offline Bee Farmer

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« Reply #601 on: February 24, 2022, 03:33:06 PM »
And in some good news, Yahoo is reporting that a Russian platoon laid down their arms and surrendered to Ukrainian forces.  They developed a conscience, and didn't want to kill their Ukrainian brothers.  They said they had not been told they were brought here to kill Ukrainians.

Hopefully more Russian forces will follow suit.

http://news.yahoo.com/ukrainian-ambassador-says-russian-platoon-201138508.html

Offline Trenchcoat

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« Reply #602 on: February 24, 2022, 03:41:08 PM »
And in some good news, Yahoo is reporting that a Russian platoon laid down their arms and surrendered to Ukrainian forces.  They developed a conscience, and didn't want to kill their Ukrainian brothers.  They said they had not been told they were brought here to kill Ukrainians.

Hopefully more Russian forces will follow suit.

http://news.yahoo.com/ukrainian-ambassador-says-russian-platoon-201138508.html

Perhaps they thought they were going there to pull some Ukrainian chicks:

http://www.thescottishsun.co.uk/news/8477730/russian-soldiers-tinder-ukraine/amp/
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Offline JohnDearGreen

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Offline Trenchcoat

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« Reply #604 on: February 24, 2022, 04:02:14 PM »
Ukraine is finding out first hand what the EU is really like, what they had hoped to join, an ineffectual bureaucracy that just doesn't care for others just itself and it's interests:

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/feb/24/kyiv-furious-as-eu-wavers-on-banning-russia-from-swift-payment-system
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Offline GQBlues

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« Reply #605 on: February 24, 2022, 04:04:20 PM »
I wish Ukraine all the very best! May the bloodshed immediately stop, and destruction be averted.

I also hope hope this movement grows and more Americans wake up to the reality of our world today. NATO is obsolete. Totally disband it.

http://www.liberationnews.org/protest-outside-white-house-demands-no-war-on-russia-disband-nato/
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Offline Trenchcoat

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« Reply #606 on: February 24, 2022, 04:18:50 PM »
I wish Ukraine all the very best! May the bloodshed immediately stop, and destruction be averted.

I also hope hope this movement grows and more Americans wake up to the reality of our world today. NATO is obsolete. Totally disband it.

http://www.liberationnews.org/protest-outside-white-house-demands-no-war-on-russia-disband-nato/

My fear would be that Putin would then invade the Eastern Bloc nations. I don't think this was ever really so much to do about NATO, that was most likely the pretext for Invasion along with the Donbass. I think this was more about Russia extending its influence. Apparently the Kremlin has said that they have no intention of occupying Ukraine earlier today so I think we are looking at regime change here along with other agreements and of course likely done land annexed by Russia. Russian troops are already moving in on Kiev and about to encircle it as I predicted:

http://www.ft.com/content/5b423554-6ce9-49fe-b74c-da41298b565f#post-88d734c6-53d9-4cad-b1f4-f8f353d74e07

I think Zelensky is already yesterday's man. He has little time left and he is issuing proclamations of a mobilization of the population that will occur within 90 days. There's no way Ukraine will last anywhere near that long, there's days at most. It will probably be pretty much done within 3-4 days from now I reckon.
"If you make your own bread, then and only then, are you a free man unchained and alive living in pooty tang paradise, or say no and live in Incel island with all the others." - Krimster

Offline fathertime

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« Reply #607 on: February 24, 2022, 04:50:35 PM »
s. I think this was more about Russia extending its influence.  f8f353d74e07
 
..or at least shunt the US from using its money and clout on this side of the planet to further push Russia into a worse position.

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Offline GQBlues

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« Reply #608 on: February 24, 2022, 05:00:12 PM »
My fear would be that Putin would then invade the Eastern Bloc nations. I don't think this was ever really so much to do about NATO, that was most likely the pretext for Invasion along with the Donbass. I think this was more about Russia extending its influence. Apparently the Kremlin has said that they have no intention of occupying Ukraine earlier today so I think we are looking at regime change here along with other agreements and of course likely done land annexed by Russia. Russian troops are already moving in on Kiev and about to encircle it as I predicted:



Whatever Putin, or any other Russian leader, will or will not do had long come and gone. NATO was formed as a counter to the cold war's Warsaw Pact Alliance. The cold war is over, the soviet regime is gone and the Warsaw Pack Alliance had been long disbanded.


NATO should've been disbanded along with the dissolution of the soviet union. NATO had since only become a beast feeding upon itself and serving but a handful military elitists and uses it to market its arsenal of weapons.


Every European nations should be left alone to attend its own cultural and political direction without any further US engagement. I am sick and tired of the US's recent foreign policies pacifying every corporate greed or of those of the so-called alliance. It's all BS. Europe can look after its own and push their own sons and daughters on the frontline of these silly conflicts.   
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Offline Trenchcoat

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« Reply #609 on: February 24, 2022, 05:35:57 PM »


Whatever Putin, or any other Russian leader, will or will not do had long come and gone. NATO was formed as a counter to the cold war's Warsaw Pact Alliance. The cold war is over, the soviet regime is gone and the Warsaw Pack Alliance had been long disbanded.


NATO should've been disbanded along with the dissolution of the soviet union. NATO had since only become a beast feeding upon itself and serving but a handful military elitists and uses it to market its arsenal of weapons.


Every European nations should be left alone to attend its own cultural and political direction without any further US engagement. I am sick and tired of the US's recent foreign policies pacifying every corporate greed or of those of the so-called alliance. It's all BS. Europe can look after its own and push their own sons and daughters on the frontline of these silly conflicts.

In fairness I was arguing back last Summer that the time for NATO may have passed. Really I agree the EU should have stepped up to the plate and organised it's own military defence force. It's on its border this is all happening. I think the AUKUS Alliance we struck last Summer is a better strategic alliance that reflects our relative position. No point like you say in having to fight battles that are not on our doorstep. So I do think that NATO kind of ended up carrying the EU at something they should have been doing. Unfortunately it looks too late now, NATO are going to have to remain so long until (if ever) the ineffectual EU can get it's act together and cobble together an army.

Ever EU member state has an army but the best is probably France. I think Germany need to get over their two lost World Wars and build a strong army again, they'll be crucial if the Russians ever try to push further into Eastern Europe, get some good Nazis on our side lol.
"If you make your own bread, then and only then, are you a free man unchained and alive living in pooty tang paradise, or say no and live in Incel island with all the others." - Krimster

Offline Brillynt

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« Reply #610 on: February 24, 2022, 05:37:02 PM »

You mean, like patriots wiping their asses with the Constitution?  8)

Less than the leftists have been doing for the past 50 years.  :deadhorse:

Offline fathertime

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« Reply #611 on: February 24, 2022, 08:10:16 PM »

NATO should've been disbanded along with the dissolution of the soviet union. NATO had since only become a beast feeding upon itself and serving but a handful military elitists and uses it to market its arsenal of weapons.
Having dozens of nations aligning against Russia would make them uncomfortable and rightfully so.  Having nations like the US try to impose it's will so close to Russia must also be aggravating.   

If the US thinks it can force regime change, then Russia may start to feel the same way, and use the same strategies to the extent they can.   First the US will try to starve countries out (Cuba, Venezuela) good examples.  That has been failing, maybe while Russia stomps over Ukraine the US will try to stomp a bit on Venezuela or something.  We (The US) have had the luxury to use finances to ruin a nation, Russia doesn't have that weapon in it's arsenal and takes care of matters differently.   

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Offline JohnDearGreen

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« Reply #612 on: February 24, 2022, 08:30:55 PM »

This is apparently the jet of the ace Ukraine pilot nicknamed "The Ghost of Kyiv" who downed SIX Russian aircraft during the first day of fighting.
[/size]

Offline Chelseaboy

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« Reply #613 on: February 24, 2022, 11:05:44 PM »
Heavy fighting in Sumy taking place.


Ukraine claims to have shot down a Russian aircraft over Kiev....they certainly shot something down and it sadly fell into an apartment building.


Russian troops were landed on an airfield by Helicopters just outside Kiev in an attempt at taking over Kiev quickly,but the Ukrainian forces defeated them after regaining the airfield.


Ukraine now has more Stinger Missiles....given by Latvia two days ago...that's what defeated Russia in Afghanistan.





For the Brits among us...Norwich City Hall has lit up in the colours of Ukraine as a display of support for Ukraine.
« Last Edit: February 24, 2022, 11:46:23 PM by Chelseaboy »
Just saying it like it is.

Offline Trenchcoat

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« Reply #614 on: February 24, 2022, 11:38:53 PM »
Heavy fighting in Sumy taking place.


Ukraine claims to have shot down a Russian aircraft over Kiev....they certainly shot something down and it sadly fell into an apartment building.


Russian troops were landed on an airfield by Helicopters just outside Kiev in an attempt at taking over Kiev quickly,but the Ukrainian forces defeated them after regaining the airfield.


Ukraine now has more Stinger Missiles....given by Latvia two days ago...that's what defeated Russia in Afghanistan.


For the Brits among us...Norwich City Hall has lit up in the colours of Ukraine as a display of support for Ukraine.

Apparently Kyiv has been intercepting missile attacks also. I'm quite surprised Ukraine seems to be doing so well in the air where they were considered weak. Not sure if they are doing as well on the ground yet. I expected a but more heavier air attacks by Russia before they moved in ground troops but Russia seems to be moving in ground troops and relying more on that instead. If those NLAW's work then Ukraine needs to start using them.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/world-europe-60517447

Sumy under attack and Kyiv coming under attack also.
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Offline Trenchcoat

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« Reply #615 on: February 24, 2022, 11:43:28 PM »
This is apparently the jet of the ace Ukraine pilot nicknamed "The Ghost of Kyiv" who downed SIX Russian aircraft during the first day of fighting.
[/size]

If Ukraine really have an Ace jet fighter pilot who did that then that's what they really need at this pressing hour. Difficult to believe that one pilot can shoot down 6 enemy planes especially as Russia is thought to have the much stronger airforce.
"If you make your own bread, then and only then, are you a free man unchained and alive living in pooty tang paradise, or say no and live in Incel island with all the others." - Krimster

Offline Chelseaboy

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« Reply #616 on: February 24, 2022, 11:49:35 PM »
Looks like he's doing a victory fly-past there. :)


By the way Ukraine has better tanks than Russia has..although less of them.
Just saying it like it is.

Offline Chelseaboy

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« Reply #617 on: February 25, 2022, 12:00:53 AM »
Apparently Kyiv has been intercepting missile attacks also. I'm quite surprised Ukraine seems to be doing so well in the air where they were considered weak. Not sure if they are doing as well on the ground yet. I expected a but more heavier air attacks by Russia before they moved in ground troops but Russia seems to be moving in ground troops and relying more on that instead. If those NLAW's work then Ukraine needs to start using them.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/world-europe-60517447

Sumy under attack and Kyiv coming under attack also.


If Russia's aircraft are indeed being shot down as claimed then Putin will have  to abandon air attacks and rely on his ground troops...carnage awaits them i suspect.


Many people thought this would be a quick battle,but watching the news outlets this morning people are now saying it's going to be a long and bloody war as the Ukrainians are holding their ground and fighting...as i predicted they would.


A former USA Ambassador to Ukraine said this morning that if Ukraine holds off Russia for three months then Russia will be defeated.


Demonstrations all over Russia now in fifty cities against the war,with 2000 arrests yesterday...the Russian people are not with Mad Vlad.


There is a lot of misinformation going on though ...Russia claims Ukrainian forces in Sumy downed their weapons and surrendered....Ukraine claims their troops are holding off the Russian troops...which is true ?


« Last Edit: February 25, 2022, 12:12:26 AM by Chelseaboy »
Just saying it like it is.

Offline Chelseaboy

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« Reply #618 on: February 25, 2022, 12:18:33 AM »
Ukrainian flag now being flown over Downing street alongside the Union flag after the building was lit up in Ukraine's colours last night.
Just saying it like it is.

Offline Chelseaboy

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« Reply #619 on: February 25, 2022, 12:33:09 AM »
The ghost of Kyiv shot down 2 SU-35's,1 SU-27,1 MIG-29 and 2 SU-25's it's claimed.


Ben Wallace this morning says the Russians have failed to take ANY of their objectives so far.


He confirms Russia has had more than 450 military personnel killed on the first day of fighting.,.with many Tanks,Helicopters and at least three Fighter aircraft lost.


It was Spetznaz special forces...Russia's elite troops..that the Ukrainian troops routed at the airfield near Kiev...as confirmed by Ben Wallace.


Pro-Russians separatists have admitted they're meeting stiff resistance from Ukrainian troops in eastern Ukraine.


There seems to be a groundswell of public opinion,including from our media,that we should be sending troops in to support Ukraine....unlike in previous wars when we HAVE sent troops in.


No doubt the bravery and calmness of the Ukrainian people coming onto our news channels and talking is garnering UK public support for us sending troops in.


Brits don't like being threatened either...as Putin did yesterday


Ben Wallace looked flustered when pushed by the BBC this morning about putting our boots on the ground,whilst saying it won't happen.

« Last Edit: February 25, 2022, 02:52:19 AM by Chelseaboy »
Just saying it like it is.

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« Reply #620 on: February 25, 2022, 03:44:23 AM »
http://www.reddit.com/r/CombatFootage/

This is a reddit sub forum...... Warning!! It has very graphic footage that you won’t see in main stream media.....  The most shocking personally isn’t the most graphic, but if true constitutes a war crime..... A Russian tank deviates from its course to target and drive over top of a moving civilian car.
« Last Edit: February 25, 2022, 03:49:53 AM by Davo »

Offline Trenchcoat

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« Reply #621 on: February 25, 2022, 05:11:17 AM »
http://www.reddit.com/r/CombatFootage/

This is a reddit sub forum...... Warning!! It has very graphic footage that you won’t see in main stream media.....  The most shocking personally isn’t the most graphic, but if true constitutes a war crime..... A Russian tank deviates from its course to target and drive over top of a moving civilian car.

That's interesting to see how things are shaping up on the ground Davo, helps to fill out the picture a but more from the news networks. Looks like both sides are suffering casualties, the Ukrainian casualties were expected but the Russian casualties unexpected. For the looks of things Russia has been losing armour and tanks, about 30 tanks so far apparently and it's still early days, many artillery loses too. Looks to be that the Russians are going about the invasion in a clumsy manner by using the old skool method of trying to take over towns and cities on the ground and going directly in. To my mind they would have been better of encircling them from a distance and cutting them off.

Russian troops have entered the northern suburbs of Kiev again using the same ham handed approach. It looks like as a result it's turning into a longer and bloodier affair. In the video on that Reddit forum the signs of devastation of shelled out buildings can clearly be seen. If it carries on at that rate Ukraine will be a shelled out mess within a few days. Potentially this could turn into a drawn out affair grinding down the Russians but wreaking havoc on Ukraine.
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Offline Chelseaboy

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« Reply #622 on: February 25, 2022, 05:44:00 AM »
That's interesting to see how things are shaping up on the ground Davo, helps to fill out the picture a but more from the news networks. Looks like both sides are suffering casualties, the Ukrainian casualties were expected but the Russian casualties unexpected. For the looks of things Russia has been losing armour and tanks, about 30 tanks so far apparently and it's still early days, many artillery loses too. Looks to be that the Russians are going about the invasion in a clumsy manner by using the old skool method of trying to take over towns and cities on the ground and going directly in. To my mind they would have been better of encircling them from a distance and cutting them off.

Russian troops have entered the northern suburbs of Kiev again using the same ham handed approach. It looks like as a result it's turning into a longer and bloodier affair. In the video on that Reddit forum the signs of devastation of shelled out buildings can clearly be seen. If it carries on at that rate Ukraine will be a shelled out mess within a few days. Potentially this could turn into a drawn out affair grinding down the Russians but wreaking havoc on Ukraine.


Ham-handed is the right word.


There's never been anything smart or sophisticated about Russia at war.


"Bash and smash "like a load of Cavemen, is their method of operation.


The 2000 protesters in Russia arrested yesterday have been charged with treason.


They'll probably be sent to the salt mines in Siberia by Mad Vlad.
« Last Edit: February 25, 2022, 05:48:43 AM by Chelseaboy »
Just saying it like it is.

Offline Chelseaboy

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« Reply #623 on: February 25, 2022, 05:57:46 AM »
Good news the EU is now going to freeze the assets of Mad Vlad and his henchman Lavrov in Europe. :)
Just saying it like it is.

Offline JohnDearGreen

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« Reply #624 on: February 25, 2022, 06:21:04 AM »

More good sites:
http://u24.ua/
http://fakty.com.ua/ua/

The occupier suffers significant losses. The headquarters of the Ground Forces of Ukraine reported new data on the number of dead invaders who invaded the territory of Ukraine on February 24. As reported on the Facebook page of the headquarters, this figure is already more than a thousand .

 

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