Russian Women Discussion
RWD Discussion Groups => Scammers and Suspect Agencies => Topic started by: Faerynor33 on March 23, 2018, 06:50:38 AM
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Are there any PPL success stories out there?
I have read many posts on this board about PPL being 100% a scam. I am redirecting my general attention to other agencies but I am in contact with one woman on PPL and don´t want to give up because I think she is genuine.
I was on Anastasia Date and Romance Compass and I agree these are clearly scam sites but I also have been on Alice Agency/ 1st International and I think there are legitimate women on this site. I met 2 girls through Alice Agency, went and met them in Ukraine. One was clearly a bit crazy and desperate and had the expensive translator with her. The other girl spoke reasonable English and we had a few dates but I called it off because she was a bit boring. At no point did I see any scam activity with this girl unless me paying for sushi can be called a scam.
I am now talking with a new girl on Alice and I think she is sincere for the following reasons:
1. Consistency of messaging and writing style, which is also consistent with her writing style in social media.
2. The cost per letter is only 5 dollars. Even if she does get 2 dollars per letter I would not call this a big income.
3. Fluent in English, she has a University degree in teaching English. We were talking a lot about her exams, and then there she is holding her certificate in social media.
4. Not online for hours per day. In fact, she might take 2 or 3 days to answer me.
5. The agency mails out an email to show who wrote you a message often a day or 2 later. It is often within an hour of this message going out that she comes online, and then within 20-30 minutes, I get a new message in English. Then offline she goes for days until she writes me again. I am reasonably certain that her profile only writes to me. I can see other profiles are online for hours.
6. I have sent her a gift. Valentine Teddy bear. I got her picture back a few days later, and it was her, with the gift, and freezing cold she was. Not a glamour picture, this girl looked exhausted, and she did tell me she had a long week.
7. Wrote me to tell me she bought a new dress for a friend´s birthday party. Picture of that dress at a party 3 days later in social media.
8. Never asked me for any gift, ever. Never talks about sex. Never makes any outlandish statements. Wants me to come visit her as soon as possible for real meeting / dating.
9. This girl is gorgeous but I am not a social misfit. I can attract women. I am 40, an alcohol trader and have a pretty cool lifestyle. British but live in Buenos Aires and travel a lot. We do have a lot in common (as written in profiles before communication). The girl is 23, quite a big age difference, but not impossible, I am quite good looking, I am very sincere and nice and romantic with her. I get no promises but she really wants to meet and check our chemistry, she appears genuine to me.
Ok, so I am convinced I am talking to a real girl, who has a real social media presence, and not Oleg in the basement. I have had a real meeting through Alice before. The one thing I find weird is she really doesn´t want to connect on social media or skype before we meet. Her reasoning is that she has done this before, and then creepy guys will not leave her alone, calling at all hours, writing crazy messages on social media. This girl is one of the most beautiful I have ever seen on dating sites so I could believe it. Weirdly, she is not a model, she clearly could be, but she is quite studious, intelligent and family-orientated, loves her friends. I think the model lifestyle is too empty for her and she doesn´t flaunt her beauty, it is just naturally there.
I am thinking she is for real, only thing weird the no direct contact before meeting thing, but she really wants the meeting, and is pressing me to confirm dates. Long way to go for me.
Am I being scammed? Can this be real? Anyone had any real success meeting through PPL? Any real success through Alice Agency/ 1st International?
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Sounds like a waste of time to me.
Why mess around with this when there are tens of thousands of women available on the monthly pay websites?
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2. The cost per letter is only 5 dollars. Even if she does get 2 dollars per letter I would not call this a big income.
Do you think she's ONLY writing you? A girl can make a lot of money if she messages 50 guys a day. Don't assume girls are only writing you and can't make much. She may be making nothing if the agency does the writing. Agencies read forums like this and know they have to improve on making the letters seem real instead of canned.
I am thinking she is for real, only thing weird the no direct contact before meeting thing, but she really wants the meeting, and is pressing me to confirm dates. Long way to go for me.
Never get involved with an agency that doesn't allow direct contact and don't fall in love with photos. Tell (F) her (A) that (E) you (R) want (Y) to (N) talk (O) to (R) the (3) phone (3) before (at) deciding (M) to (A) visit (I) and (L) ask (.) her (C) to (O) send (M) you her number so you can call. If she truly likes you and believes you could be the love of her life, she'll give you her number. If she makes excuses she doesn't want to break the rules of the agency, she values her job there more than you. Be careful using the words phone, email, COM and the symbol @ in case they have filters. If you do get her number, call her often before buying the tickets to read how enthusiastic she is about hearing your voice.
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There are a number of men on here who were successful on PPL sites. I met my wife on Anastasia, and I believe AJ met his wife on a PPL? Pretty sure members like Jone and JayH have dated girls from PPL sites as well.
But there is usually more to the story or a twist in how things played out with these success stories. Guy ends up marrying terp versus original girl (happens frequently) or lucky timing, or x,y,z. Most of the women on those sites are working. And most will have boyfriends or be married. If a guy does happen to come alone that has something to offer or that sets him apart from the others there is always a chance.
From what you tell us there are some pretty big red flags though....
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1. Consistency of messaging and writing style, which is also consistent with her writing style in social media.
It is probably her actually writing, so why would there be any difference?
2. The cost per letter is only 5 dollars. Even if she does get 2 dollars per letter I would not call this a big income.
At five bucks a letter, she may receive between a buck and $2.50 if she does good volume for an agency like my wife. Ten letters a day is $25 x 30 days in a month comes out to $750 USD. About triple what most people in Ukraine make. Pretty good income over there. Chat pays more. My wife was easily clearing over 1k a month working at Anastasia.
3. Fluent in English, she has a University degree in teaching English. We were talking a lot about her exams, and then there she is holding her certificate in social media.
My wife went to college for English. She has a degree in English. Same school the lawyers go to in Odesa. Guess what jobs young women who speak English get when they graduate? Interpreters. Usually for agencies. Now, I could be wrong. Maybe she just wants to practice English and you are a cool enough guy she is attracted to you. But it is a red flag to me.
4. Not online for hours per day. In fact, she might take 2 or 3 days to answer me.
How do you know this? Holding a cert in Social Media and not online? She is probably on Instagram 24/7. My wife and all agency girls took 2-3 days to reply. Normal. The cutoff date for replies to get paid for letters as required by agencies is 3 days.
5. The agency mails out an email to show who wrote you a message often a day or 2 later. It is often within an hour of this message going out that she comes online, and then within 20-30 minutes, I get a new message in English. Then offline she goes for days until she writes me again. I am reasonably certain that her profile only writes to me. I can see other profiles are online for hours.
As I mentioned, it is probably her. Or maybe it is her terp calling her girlfriend to login quickly since that guy that lives in BA wrote her. Have you ever spoken to her on Skype or her cell, or via Whatsapp?
6. I have sent her a gift. Valentine Teddy bear. I got her picture back a few days later, and it was her, with the gift, and freezing cold she was. Not a glamour picture, this girl looked exhausted, and she did tell me she had a long week.
:) I have many stories about gifts to agency girls in here. Or maybe it is the other forum. Did you send the gift through the agency website?
7. Wrote me to tell me she bought a new dress for a friend´s birthday party. Picture of that dress at a party 3 days later in social media.
And?
8. Never asked me for any gift, ever. Never talks about sex. Never makes any outlandish statements. Wants me to come visit her as soon as possible for real meeting / dating.
OK, normal for an agency girl. They cannot talk about sex or gifts or lose their job at agency. Now, she may really want to meet you. But she may also want a brand new dress when you arrive for her gf party.
9. This girl is gorgeous but I am not a social misfit. I can attract women. I am 40, an alcohol trader and have a pretty cool lifestyle. British but live in Buenos Aires and travel a lot. We do have a lot in common (as written in profiles before communication). The girl is 23, quite a big age difference, but not impossible, I am quite good looking, I am very sincere and nice and romantic with her. I get no promises but she really wants to meet and check our chemistry, she appears genuine to me.
She may want to meet you and see if you click. Not outside the realm of possibility even if she is working for an agency. I was 36 when I met my wife who was 22.The one thing I find weird is she really doesn´t want to connect on social media or skype before we meet. Her reasoning is that she has done this before, and then creepy guys will not leave her alone, calling at all hours, writing crazy messages on social media. This girl is one of the most beautiful I have ever seen on dating sites so I could believe it. Weirdly, she is not a model, she clearly could be, but she is quite studious, intelligent and family-orientated, loves her friends. I think the model lifestyle is too empty for her and she doesn´t flaunt her beauty, it is just naturally there.
Red flag, but she is also correct that there are many creepy guys. It is also bad luck and can cause problems with her job, boyfriend, jealous gf, family, x,y,z if she ads you on social media. She may work for an agency and may be inquisitive to meet, but does this with many men so until you meet in person no need to add you. Once you meet maybe she will then vet you.
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3. Fluent in English, she has a University degree in teaching English. We were talking a lot about her exams, and then there she is holding her certificate in social media.
Another thought on this one. Last week I heard my wife giving English lessons to one of her gf daughters on Skype. They asked her to help teach more advanced lessons. She wants to grow up to be an interpreter at an agency like my wife was. This is a coveted job for many women in Ukraine - and the economy is bad. And a way to a better life or finding the right partner.
So while a few bucks does not seem like a lot to you and I, it is a good career for many in Ukraine.
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The one thing I find weird is she really doesn´t want to connect on social media or skype before we meet. Her reasoning is that she has done this before, and then creepy guys will not leave her alone, calling at all hours, writing crazy messages on social media. This girl is one of the most beautiful I have ever seen on dating sites so I could believe it. Weirdly, she is not a model, she clearly could be, but she is quite studious, intelligent and family-orientated, loves her friends. I think the model lifestyle is too empty for her and she doesn´t flaunt her beauty, it is just naturally there.
I am thinking she is for real, only thing weird the no direct contact before meeting thing, but she really wants the meeting, and is pressing me to confirm dates. Long way to go for me.
Am I being scammed? Can this be real? Anyone had any real success meeting through PPL? Any real success through Alice Agency/ 1st International?
A few points -- Alex is very much on the case !
Ages -- if you are an ok guy,not a slob, attractive enough,decent personality ,active and in good shape etc then yes --it is possible ( with all the potential long term failures a reality) . I see no problem--others will say otherwise.
On the contact issue -- the reasons she states are a real issue for girls on websites. In fact --this forum( & others) has people that promote & ADVISE guys to seek girls out like that and bypass the websites etc
That said -- while not a red light --it is a yellow one for me. It is far preferable to move to direct contact-- eg phone,Skype,Viber, Whats App etc and direct email and more. Even with all that --if I was in your shoes -I would still be cautious -- very cautious.
The issue is "come visit" and the potential arrangements and set up. You already mentioned being "scammed" by expensive terp -- so you are aware of that -- and your new lady has good English( btw-how do you know that?
Girls -- especially pretty girls-- have learnt to trust nothing on the internet btw All sorts of guys can show up from harmless to kidnappers ! So it works both ways. It may well be that it is as simple as she does not want to waste her time on a guy that turns out to be a non starter in real life !
What city is this girl in?
I do not see much difference in any of the sites -- anything to do with them or agencies needs to be treated with great caution. That said -- even the most notorious sites eg AD etc have genuine girls who may be interested in the RIGHT guy.Note -- not just any guy -- but the right guy.Remember -beautiful girl = a lot of attention -- from everywhere !
It is hard to estimate what % of girls ( profiles) are genuine in the context of actually seriously looking-- I liken it to looking for a needle in a haystack -- but first you have to find the haystack !
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OK, normal for an agency girl. They cannot talk about sex or gifts or lose their job at agency. Now, she may really want to meet you. But she may also want a brand new dress when you arrive for her gf party.
Red flag, but she is also correct that there are many creepy guys. It is also bad luck and can cause problems with her job, boyfriend, jealous gf, family, x,y,z if she ads you on social media. She may work for an agency and may be inquisitive to meet, but does this with many men so until you meet in person no need to add you. Once you meet maybe she will then vet you.
All Alex's points are good -- but one I need to specifically comment on.
In the past -- the sex comment was correct. That is not the case now . More competition etc -- perhaps not so much on exclusive AD girls -- but across all the agencies who place girls on sites- including AD - sex is used to suck the customers online.
In earlier years --AD took only the best looking & hottest. Later that has not been the case -- still above average but not as tight as it used to be.
Some well known sites -- will remove or restrict -- but it is sex chat that gets guys hooked. It only adds to the point that it is recognised that very few ( maybe 5% ish) will ever travel -- so most girls( profiles) simply dont believe guys !
Guys come on video chat and ask to see a girls tits as their 2nd comment ! Many girls tell stories like that and about guys only interested in sex chat. It is the not so nice part of the work for girls.
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Guys come on video chat and ask to see a girls tits as their 2nd comment ! Many girls tell stories like that and about guys only interested in sex chat. It is the not so nice part of the work for girls.
The pervs have always been around. Poor girl sitting at home with babushka walking around the house. Definitely smth all the girls hated like you say.
I had not heard of the sex talk to lure guys in recently, interesting info Jay. Makes sense with more competition and possibly less traffic/numbers. Certain sites always used sex - like yeva4u.
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It is hard to estimate what % of girls ( profiles) are genuine in the context of actually seriously looking-- I liken it to looking for a needle in a haystack -- but first you have to find the haystack !
I asked my wife this very question a few years ago. She said there was only ONE girl in the entire agency truly looking for marriage. Now, this does not include older or not as good looking women and those not working for the agency (negligible amount). And as I have mentioned before Anastasia used to have a rating system for looks. Same as the swimsuit show they put on yearly in Odesa. A 1-10 scale. Those that were under a certain number were never featured on the main site, but smaller less visible sites with not much SEO or PPC traffic. So all those women who might be legit are buried under the income producing girls.
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Long time ago when marriage agencies started springing up in the FSU there was an American named David Stickney. He went from agency to agency asking certain questions to the interpreter to the Russian/Ukrainian/Belorussian agency owner. What they didn't know was David was fluent in Russian. Often the owner would tell the interpreter things he would not want David to know. Things like how they really did business. Anyway David collected the names of the straight shooters and organized the 'Angelika Network.' He had two business partners, Shane Cook and Larry Guccione.
They did a PPL for the Russian/English translations. The women would come to agency with hand written letters which the agency would translate and keep the original on file. They also sold direct contact info for a small price. Organized visits, places to stay for the male visitors, flowers, chocolates etc. David was policeman of agency. The tough but fair type. An agency owner did not want to cross him. If they did they'd get the credit card portal cut off and find themselves cut off from the internet. I know because I seen this happen in Ekaterinburg 17 years ago.
Because of infighting in the partnership and the one-two punch of IMBRA and the 2007-2008 crash in the economy the Angelika Network failed.
I've known David for 17 years. Last year I did a video Skype with him. I asked him about agencies. BTW last I heard he is living in Crimea with his Ukrainian wife and their child. David said almost all the agencies are rip offs. He said the only agency you can trust is run by a woman that used to be part of the Angelika Network. Her name is Yana Chobitok, and she runs an agency in Kiev called Daisybrides. On her website in the FAQ she says this.
How many letters do we have to exchange before I can meet the lady?
No letters needed at all – just buy the ticket and come to Kiev; for saving your time we recommend you to use our matchmaking service or just think about preparing the introductions in advance. Our dating agency will be happy to do the best and make a good schedule for you.
The way they make money is through the introductions. They charge $70 per meeting or $320 for 5 meetings. Is that a scam? No and the reason I can tell it is not, is the women unlike the other PPL sites do not claim to want men much, much older than themselves. AND the women will refuse certain men that they are not interested in. A meeting is arranged either at the office by the Maiden Square or in a nearby restaurant. An interpreter can be provided. The first hour is free and after that it is $15 an hour. The women if they are interested in you, will give you their contact info or set up a date without any agency involvement.
The best thing is not to write. Just book a flight and rent an Airbnb near the agency and come. Yana's office manager Oksana with call a taxi for you. The taxi usually cost about 100 UAH (less than $4). I would recommend writing an introduction letter and get some good photos of yourself. Make your selection who you are interested in and they will set everything up. The women are real and from what I can tell on the up and up. Of course some may have motives not always good. But you have figure that out yourself. Only problem I see is sometimes the photos are old. However some of the ladies actually look better than their photos so it goes both ways.
Good luck.
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A few points -- Alex is very much on the case !
Ages -- if you are an ok guy,not a slob, attractive enough,decent personality ,active and in good shape etc then yes --it is possible ( with all the potential long term failures a reality) . I see no problem--others will say otherwise.
On the contact issue -- the reasons she states are a real issue for girls on websites. In fact --this forum( & others) has people that promote & ADVISE guys to seek girls out like that and bypass the websites etc
That said -- while not a red light --it is a yellow one for me. It is far preferable to move to direct contact-- eg phone,Skype,Viber, Whats App etc and direct email and more. Even with all that --if I was in your shoes -I would still be cautious -- very cautious.
The issue is "come visit" and the potential arrangements and set up. You already mentioned being "scammed" by expensive terp -- so you are aware of that -- and your new lady has good English( btw-how do you know that?
Girls -- especially pretty girls-- have learnt to trust nothing on the internet btw All sorts of guys can show up from harmless to kidnappers ! So it works both ways. It may well be that it is as simple as she does not want to waste her time on a guy that turns out to be a non starter in real life !
What city is this girl in?
I do not see much difference in any of the sites -- anything to do with them or agencies needs to be treated with great caution. That said -- even the most notorious sites eg AD etc have genuine girls who may be interested in the RIGHT guy.Note -- not just any guy -- but the right guy.Remember -beautiful girl = a lot of attention -- from everywhere !
It is hard to estimate what % of girls ( profiles) are genuine in the context of actually seriously looking-- I liken it to looking for a needle in a haystack -- but first you have to find the haystack !
Thank you to everyone for their views and some very helpful replies. Thought to answer a few points in case it helps create better insight.
This girl is based in Sumy, and has recently qualified with a Masters in teaching English from the University there. I found both her Facebook and Instagram profile, and she writes me the things going on in her life, and the evidence can sometimes then be seen in social media. Sometimes, she posts in English on social media also. Literally only ever comes online for brief periods (I can see other profiles basically live online), and only long enough to answer my letters, and they get delivered immediately in excellent English with a consistent voice and a couple of minor human, not computer-translation type errors. I was an English teacher, I know the difference.
On age, I am confident. I have a cool lifestyle as an alcohol trader and brand manager, working in premium beer and spirits. I am youthful, social, not ugly and attract nice women. I offer a good quality of life, social importance, travel and am nice, sincere, romantic, honest and willing to commit.
My only concern when she didnt want to go direct contact, which was a red light for me as I otherwise think she is genuine, but I see that there can be various trust issues to overcome and it may be only an amber light. Having explained to her the importance of a direct contact before travel, I think she is going to have a call with me soon.
I am going to be very cautious but I am inclined to believe this girl. Definitely the last woman I will ever speak to on PPL, and I did see through others pretty quickly, but not yet willing to give up on this one.
When I visit, I will rent Airbnb, not buy expensive gifts, no translator, and see how it goes.
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The key component that I found in looking for genuine ladies on PPL or PPC was how long they have been on the system. If longer than four months, chances are you're being played. Every woman that I dated on these sites, I made sure I had direct contact before planning any trips. Not having direct contact leads me to believe she is either being paid to be there or someone is using her profile to communicate. Sometimes it is a mixture of both.
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When I visit, I will rent Airbnb, not buy expensive gifts, no translator, and see how it goes.
She may still insist on having a translator for "safety". The agency won't want you to meet alone, they need to milk you for as much as they can. Girls who meet men alone can be booted by the agency.
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This girl is based in Sumy, and has recently qualified with a Masters in teaching English from the University there. I found both her Facebook and Instagram profile, and she writes me the things going on in her life, and the evidence can sometimes then be seen in social media. Sometimes, she posts in English on social media also. Literally only ever comes online for brief periods (I can see other profiles basically live online), and only long enough to answer my letters, and they get delivered immediately in excellent English with a consistent voice and a couple of minor human, not computer-translation type errors. I was an English teacher, I know the difference.
Of course she would write about her daily life events. That is the easiest thing to do. The question would whether she (or her terp) is sending the same letter to 20 other men. Her English skill level or the letters being well written by a human have no bearing on how this works with an agency, so forget any of that.
Don't take this the wrong way. You might be good looking, wealthy and cool. But if she is good looking there are many guys speaking to her that can beat you in those areas. Guys offering her trips to the Maldives and Ferraris. She may be into you though - I would proceed, but with caution is all. And if you fly out to visit her make sure you have a backup plan,. Either other women or something to see or do.
She may still insist on having a translator for "safety". The agency won't want you to meet alone, they need to milk you for as much as they can.
Most girls will bring a terp along for safety. My wife did our first meeting and she was crazy about me. They do it because many men turn out to be creeps or they feel their English level is not as good as it is. But yes, could also be due to getting paid by agency. No way to know until you get there to feel it out.
I wish you success. If it works out it will be the best thing to ever happen to you.
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No contact via Skype or other direct means is a plan for failure. Especially with a gal in her young twenties. You're deluding yourself. Better have plan B (another gal) in the wings because I can assure you that she is NOT what you think she is.
The fact that she did not give you Instagram or Facebook, and you went sleuthing for them, is another BIG red flag. If she is into you, she'd have given you those herself. Both have messenger capability so the mask is off, so to speak. And still she does not give you direct contact.
It took me three gals on PPL sites before I was able to understand who was real and who wasn't. Even the ones that I knew still had employees of the agency using their logons to generate business. I remember one gal, whom I dated, who didn't believe me that the agency was logging on as her. So I showed her the discussion. She asked to have her profile taken down immediately. But, of course, the agency claimed that they could not do it locally and it would take some time ......
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I looked at the profiles for the three most obvious choices for Sumy. All three seemed dodgy to me. My guess is that you chose the blonde. Any time a 23 year old is willing to hook up with a guy who could be her grandfather, something is seriously wrong. I can't tell you how important it is to make direct contact .... or have a plan B. My recommendation would be to go on Elena's and find all of the women from Sumy, since that is where you want to go, and establish relations with at least three of them as fall back. Sometimes the alternate gal is the one that you are much happier with. Ask 2Tall.
The first trip I took seeking someone in Ukraine was a trip to Kharkov. The gal I was interested in I met the first night. She was empty and vapid. Her terp dinged me every which way. It didn't take me more than ten minutes to figure out the game. But I had another gal, who wasn't quite at that model level, who I also made contact with. We had a great time. We went to the Aqua Park, out to dinner and she took a day to show me everything of interest in Kharkov. No Terp.
You are traveling over 5000 miles for, essentially, a blind date. And with a gal from an agency that has proven, again and again that it can't be trusted. Time to think with your big head.
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One more thing: Most of these sites are Amalgamators. They are NOT the agency. The agency you would be going to in Sumy is, most likely, a standalone operation that submits profiles to the amalgamators. This means that they control the local profile. They see all of the traffic going back and forth to the woman. They can, at any time, instigate letters on their own and answer letters, following the lead of other conversations that the woman has had. How does this work? Well, she happens to send a letter to another guy and she mentions the new dress that she got for a friend's birthday. The local agency sees that letter and immediately begins including that in other letters that they write for her. With very few details they can create entire conversations with men around the world.
This is why direct contact is needed. You can burn the agency for details if you know things about her that she did not share with other guys she has talked to. Like what her cat's name was as a child or who she went to camp with when she was in secondary school. When I was dating the first gal I had direct contact with I absolutely burned the local agency rep and told them to stop using the account to make money. Did they stop? Of course, not. The PPL, PPC sites are there to trick men into making money. Getting caught is something they don't care about. As a matter of fact I spent more money proving to this correspondent that they were lying. They were laughing all the way to the bank.
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Are there any PPL success stories out there?
Sure there are success stories, however it's expensive and time consuming to
find real girls who are serious. You are probably exchanging letters with an
agency translator.
So my advice is don't use them. Many guys think that the hottest girls are there
but it's not true. The hottest photoshop is done there. Here is a thread on how to
get started.
http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/index.php?topic=14615.0
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I am going to be very cautious but I am inclined to believe this girl. Definitely the last woman I will ever speak to on PPL, and I did see through others pretty quickly, but not yet willing to give up on this one.
When I visit, I will rent Airbnb, not buy expensive gifts, no translator, and see how it goes.
Then get hold of her off site.
She probably has a VK.com page, find her there and send her a note. Then talk to
her on the phone and skype.
Read the RWD Ten commandments, here are numbers 3, 4 & 5
3. Work to eliminate any agency from your communications.
4. Always get the lady's home address and home phone number as early as possible.
5. Verify the ladies you are writing to are real.
http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/index.php?topic=1740.0
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My only concern when she didn't want to go direct contact, which was a red
light for me as I otherwise think she is genuine, but I see that there can be
various trust issues to overcome and it may be only an amber light. Having
explained to her the importance of a direct contact before travel, I think she
is going to have a call with me soon.
She only gets a commission when you go through the agency.
A serious girl finds a way, a sketchy girl has excuses.
A serious girl knows 189 ways for you to contact her and a
sketchy girl chooses the most expensive one (through her agency).
A serious girl will spend 8 hours on a bus to save you a $120
in airfare. A sketchy girl will let you spend a buck a minute on
the agency site chatting with her.
Which girl is she?
All fingers point to sketchy.
Here is a very typical situation
You arrive at the airport in her city and nobody is there to pick you
up. You call the agency and they send somebody who tells you the
following sad story.
So sorry, your hot girl had to go to Oymyakon Siberia because her
grandmother suddenly became ill. She will be gone for the entire month.
Don't worry we will get you other date$ within our agency. They are
all $erious Girl$. NONE of them will speak English so you can hire our
translator$. We will be happy to provide a car and driver at your expen$e
We will suggest expensive restaurant$ and get a commission from each
of them.
After you date 17 of our prodater women (none of which will kiss you
or any other funny business) we will drive you back to your plane and
send you home, with your wallet significantly thinner.
You will have been fleeced, but luckily you found your way here and you
have been warned. If the girl doesn't give you her personal contact
information then you dump her. That's my advice
Udachi!
Bill
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Thank you guys, I am listening to everything you say. Learning a lot. I am insisting on the direct contact.
Wont go to Sumy without it, and if I do go, I will have another few girls lined up.
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One more thing: When an agency finds a gal that is popular. And cannot think that she isn't. I would take a screen shot of one of the pictures and find how many of the Amalgamators have her photos. I did this with the blonde from Sumy and found she was on six other Amalgamators. That means she is getting heavy, heavy traffic and that she has been out there for awhile. Not just letter writing, but Pay per chat sites as well. Someone is certainly operating her profile with all this activity, and by virtue of the fact that she is 'not new' to the agency.
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I found both her Facebook and Instagram profile, and she writes me the things going on in her life, and the evidence can sometimes then be seen in social media. Sometimes, she posts in English on social media also.
She's on social media? Why are we talking PPL? You're wondering if she likes you. Write her on Facebook and tell her who you are. If she likes you, she'll be happy to talk outside the agency. If she asks you to communicate only through the agency or questions who you are, then she doesn't like you or don't even know who you are.
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She's on social media? Why are we talking PPL? You're wondering if she likes you. Write her on Facebook and tell her who you are. If she likes you, she'll be happy to talk outside the agency. If she asks you to communicate only through the agency or questions who you are, then she doesn't like you or don't even know who you are.
Five bucks she has no idea who the OP is when he contacts her on social media. And nothing against the OP, just how it is.
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Five bucks she has no idea who the OP is when he contacts her on social media. And nothing against the OP, just how it is.
If its the one I'm thinking, she's on every PPL site I could find. The only one she isn't on is A-Date. Even on some Italian ones, if Sandro is interested.
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Thank you guys, I am listening to everything you say. Learning a lot. I am insisting on the direct contact.
Wont go to Sumy without it, and if I do go, I will have another few girls lined up.
I've dated several girls from PPL's. I only went to visit them if they gave me their
personal information and talked to them. If she contacts you outside of the agency
and you have a backup plan that doesn't involve a PPL agency then I can't think of
a reason not to go, you will come back with experience and more knowledge than
you have now.
Udachi!
Bill
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The only one she isn't on is A-Date.
Adate may have been forced to remove her if someone complained.
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She may still insist on having a translator for "safety". The agency won't want you to meet alone, they need to milk you for as much as they can. Girls who meet men alone can be booted by the agency.
This is a good point -- a girl may be obligated to get an "earn' for the agency etc. She may be signed to what she believes is an enforceable contract ( there can be a LOT of reasons why a girl WILL not cross an agency )
Basically--the agency gets a fee for the lead.I have never really seen a problem with that as such -- and it is easier to pay it and get girl free of the agency BS.
To the OP -- some good points made in thread -- particularly by Alex and Jone ( & in quote).
The negatives may be correct -- but -- it is not an impossible case. I have not done any follow up as Jone as done here so can't comment on that.
The positive comments do show that there may still be an opening .
I have commented in other threads recently -- regardless of pre contact and the extent of it --only a real life meeting = reality.
That is what the outlay of getting to that stage is about -- in the HOPE that what you have seen and heard is all correct and true ! eg and not photos of her "sister" etc or before she put on 30kgs ! And of course-- plus that it was actually her that you have been corresponding with.
Not being paranoid about every $ outlaid ( ala Trenchcoat) is a good starting point .Treat it as a cost of doing business like this in a tricky landscape where you cannot control everything ( or anything!) . that way-- hopefully it is possible to focus on what does really matter and it allows you to roll with whatever happens.
The bottom line -- do not become a committed "buyer" prematurely !! :)
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Not being paranoid about every $ outlaid ( ala Trenchcoat) is a good starting point .Treat it as a cost of doing business like this in a tricky landscape where you cannot control everything ( or anything!) . that way-- hopefully it is possible to focus on what does really matter and it allows you to roll with whatever happens.
The bottom line -- do not become a committed "buyer" prematurely !! :)
Sound advice :clapping:
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My info on PPL sites is more than five years old
That I got emails from ladies I'd already met
AND
those I hadn't met - I used their photos - often 5/ 10 years old - to find them on social media sites - and they were either
1/ 'upset' their images / profiles were still being used - they certainly hadn't contacted me - but might have been happy to carry on
OR
2/ ( in two cases ) 2/ told me not to use their social media social media site as a 'dating site' and to use the ( PPL )site where their profile was located !
should be more than a clue as to the 'genuineness' of PPL sites...
It's a MUG's game... if she won't go direct - dump her and move on
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Maxx2,
Thanks for the flashback. A while back I was trying to put together a list of legitimate agencies......from back in the the day. Lifetime Partners (Tver, Russia), MAXX Agency (Yoshkar Ola, Russia), Angelica Network (FSU).....and the dating site TrueLoves. com (from the US). MAXX in particular offered something for everyone. PPL, monthly, yearly,
mini tours, flowers, candy, gifts, transportation, interpreters, rentals.......and even real estate. And he was just a great guy. Unfortunately he passed away at a young age some years ago.
I have to say the the offerings by DaisyBrides would be the way to go today. A similar plan was offered by an agency in Sochi. The rate then was $50 per introduction. The nice thing about this arrangement is the virtually no money is put out until you "actually"........show-up......to be introduced to real people. There have been folks on this forum (and even back in the day)......who spent $5,000....or more.....before leaving their couch. It has always driven me crazy that the main reason some folks her chose Ukraine over Russia......because of the cost of a visa (Russia). If the cost of a visa is significant to you......you probably should forget this endeavor. $70 x 10 introductions.....face to face.....for $700.................cheap.........in the greater scheme of things.
Guys pursuing FSU women have spent as little as $5,000 (not including K1 and citizenship)........to well over $50,000. Hopefully some guys here will try DaisyBrides (or similar).......and let us know how things go.
Capt B
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Guys pursuing FSU women have spent as little as $5,000 (not including K1 and citizenship)........to well over $50,000.
I know guys that made it happen buying the woman a plane ticket to the US. Never visited her or even set foot in Russia. The expenses just begin once she arrives no matter.
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Correction. MAKSIM Agency (not Maxx).
I never heard of guys bringing over a "bride" and never setting foot in their country. Unless the rules have changed.....one of the rules for a for a K-1 or K-3....is you have to visit at least once in her home country. ???
Capt B
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You are assuming people follow "rules". I have mentioned the path many times on here - tourist VISA, girl overstays, marries, green card. No wait and less money.
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Maxx2,
Thanks for the flashback. A while back I was trying to put together a list of legitimate agencies......from back in the the day. Lifetime Partners (Tver, Russia), MAXX Agency (Yoshkar Ola, Russia), Angelica Network (FSU).....and the dating site TrueLoves. com (from the US). MAXX in particular offered something for everyone. PPL, monthly, yearly,
mini tours, flowers, candy, gifts, transportation, interpreters, rentals.......and even real estate. And he was just a great guy. Unfortunately he passed away at a young age some years ago.
I have to say the the offerings by DaisyBrides would be the way to go today. A similar plan was offered by an agency in Sochi. The rate then was $50 per introduction. The nice thing about this arrangement is the virtually no money is put out until you "actually"........show-up......to be introduced to real people. There have been folks on this forum (and even back in the day)......who spent $5,000....or more.....before leaving their couch. It has always driven me crazy that the main reason some folks her chose Ukraine over Russia......because of the cost of a visa (Russia). If the cost of a visa is significant to you......you probably should forget this endeavor. $70 x 10 introductions.....face to face.....for $700.................cheap.........in the greater scheme of things.
Guys pursuing FSU women have spent as little as $5,000 (not including K1 and citizenship)........to well over $50,000. Hopefully some guys here will try DaisyBrides (or similar).......and let us know how things go.
Capt B
Hey Mark how have you been? Heard from your old friend jb lately? I remember a photo of a rather large fish you caught with jb in the Gulf. You don't get those in Lake Michigan! So how is the Misses?
I am in Kiev now. Been here 3 weeks. I'll be here another 12 days, then back to my adopted country of Georgia. I've met some ladies from Daisybrides. Gotten contact info from several of them and seen one a number of times without agency involvement. From what I can tell the agency is on the up and up. The biggest problem I have is the women are super busy at their jobs. A good job is not something that is easy to give up for a chance on a man. So my idea of spending a lot of time with a woman getting to know her has not been so easy. The one woman I've seen 5 times has flexible work hours and she can make up the time lost spent with me.
I Viber wrote this to one woman:
"Until I chatted with you I didn't fully understand this situation. It will be my biggest hurdle to overcome in finding a wife. It would be difficult for a woman to give up one life on a chance for a better one. It is less about finding a man and more about economic security."
I am not a young man, so I've been looking for an older woman. Older women are less likely to be ruled by emotion and they have the wisdom that age brings.
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I know guys that made it happen buying the woman a plane ticket to the US. Never visited her or even set foot in Russia. The expenses just begin once she arrives no matter.
Because that's a great basis for a relationship. Wonder how many are still married 5 years later.
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Because that's a great basis for a relationship. Wonder how many are still married 5 years later.
I have told some of the horror stories on those relationships in the forums. But surprisingly a few have turned out ok. I would certainly not do it myself.
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I have told some of the horror stories on those relationships in the forums. But surprisingly a few have turned out ok. I would certainly not do it myself.
I suspect that is most cases where it worked it would be down to the woman involved more than the man..
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Can't really say I'm a success story as far as dating or marrying but I was using AFA before I read into them on this board. $7.50 a letter sent and received. I sent out letters to 4, one of which contacted me first. 3 turned out to be fake and not interested in getting my info via IMBRA (I need it for translator or non-committal sure I will!). The 4th was encountering issues with the agency giving her my information after she said she wanted to be contacted.
Her friend was from Lugansk and Married a guy from Perth and told her that I probably wanted to get her contact info due to how expensive it was and that that's why the agency didn't want to hand my info over, as they were being paid. She searched through Facebook for a few hours and found me due to some of the info I'd used in my letters and since the profile pic was the same as the AFA site. I think for a week after that she apologized almost daily about not realizing how much it had cost me to send those messages, lol.
We've been Chatting on either Skype or Telegram daily and I'm due to see her in May if she can get a few days off, otherwise July for sure. I told her I'd be getting an airbnb by her and she invited me to stay with her and her parents to save money.
Getting back to AFA though I tried what BillyB suggested (E)using (G)parentheses to get past the filters, it always got censored. They check the letters and are aware of the ways most people use to get around them, Best way is to ask for a profile pic that's not by the agency and hope it comes up in a reverse image search or just going through all of the "Svetlana" or "Irina" on VK in Charkassy or Odessa in that age range.
I even tried starting the first letter of each line page break with my email and it was still censored lol.
All that to say even though it's a low sample size of only 4, 75% being paid employees or agency writers and 25% being Legit is not a good ratio.
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Getting back to AFA though I tried what BillyB suggested (E)using (G)parentheses to get past the filters, it always got censored. They check the letters and are aware of the ways most people use to get around them, Best way is to ask for a profile pic that's not by the agency and hope it comes up in a reverse image search or just going through all of the "Svetlana" or "Irina" on VK in Charkassy or Odessa in that age range.
I even tried starting the first letter of each line page break with my email and it was still censored lol.
As cheap as it is to pay people over there, agencies may have real humans reading letters instead of computer software. Us Western men are big money and they don't want us to communicate around their agencies. Keep in mind, many of the letters you send, agency employees read them and agency employees respond to them. With pay to play sites, you don't know if you're communicating with the girl in the photo or not.
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As cheap as it is to pay people over there, agencies may have real humans reading letters instead of computer software. Us Western men are big money and they don't want us to communicate around their agencies. Keep in mind, many of the letters you send, agency employees read them and agency employees respond to them. With pay to play sites, you don't know if you're communicating with the girl in the photo or not.
Agreed 100%, In my case PPL was worth it because I seem to have met a genuinely interested and great person so it was worth the $200, I mean compared to the Plane tickets and spending time over there that's nothing and I got my value out of it.
But again the odds are stacked against you versus a free site or monthly pay site, maybe the other thing too is setting realistic expectations. I'm 27 and not 300lbs. The age range I was Targeting was 24-29 and this girl happened to be 25, so only a 2 year difference. She told me people as old as 80 were sending her messages which to me is bonkers.
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She probably has a VK.com page, find her there and send her a note.
Beel, this doesn't mean that any lass is who they say they are .... I have come across Odnoklassniki / VK profiles In English ) that were created by agencies
For sure video chat ( non chargeable ) is a good start
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Beel, this doesn't mean that any lass is who they say they are ....
I have come across Odnoklassniki / VK profiles In English )
that were created by agencies
For sure video chat ( non chargeable ) is a good start
My general advice is to avoid the PPL sites altogether.
There is no way to eliminate every risk as I am sure
you know. If you can find somebody on VK and then
get their personal contact information would just be
a good way to get the sketchy agency out of the picture.
My first trip to the FSU to meet a girl in Odessa was
through a PPL site. I arranged my own, translator,
apartment, transportation and got the agency totally
out of the picture.
The girl did try to pull an elaborate scam on me at
the end, but didn't get away with it since she didn't
have anybody at the agency to run interference for
her.
The girl I met in Lugansk was from a PPL site, but I
got her to secretly send me her phone number and
we gave the agency the boot.
For the newbies who would like to know more about
my trials and tribulations can read about some of them
here
http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/index.php?topic=3432.0
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My general advice is to avoid the PPL sites altogether.
There is no way to eliminate every risk as I am sure
you know. If you can find somebody on VK and then
get their personal contact information would just be
a good way to get the sketchy agency out of the picture.
My first trip to the FSU to meet a girl in Odessa was
through a PPL site. I arranged my own, translator,
apartment, transportation and got the agency totally
out of the picture.
The girl did try to pull an elaborate scam on me at
the end, but didn't get away with it since she didn't
have anybody at the agency to run interference for
her.
The girl I met in Lugansk was from a PPL site, but I
got her to secretly send me her phone number and
we gave the agency the boot.
yeah that's why I say forget the agencies and all that. it's not too hard with social media and internet now to do everything yourself. just use your brain. or do it the real way, go to the city and start talking to people live in person. that's how I did it.
what was the scam the girl pulled on you? Seems like Ukraine is notorious for girls who scam.
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yeah that's why I say forget the agencies and all that. it's not too hard with social media and internet now to do everything yourself. just use your brain. or do it the real way, go to the city and start talking to people live in person. that's how I did it.
what was the scam the girl pulled on you? Seems like Ukraine is notorious for girls who scam.
I met Georgia peaches on MySpace and I met my wife Angel
Eyes on a social networking site not a marriage agency.
The scam was on reply 363. Her scam was atypical because
she rode me like a stolen bicycle before she tried it.
http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/index.php?topic=3432.350
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If you can find somebody on VK and then
get their personal contact information would just be
a good way to get the sketchy agency out of the picture.
But if the social media profile is just there to deceive, one might continue to 'believe' ))
So many ladies I know with social media profiles don't have them viewable on searches ...trying to avoid being hit on or simply don't have a profile.
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I met Georgia peaches on MySpace and I met my wife Angel
Eyes on a social networking site not a marriage agency.
The scam was on reply 363. Her scam was atypical because
she rode me like a stolen bicycle before she tried it.
http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/index.php?topic=3432.350
I couldn't quite follow, she scammed you on English lessons? Nowadays taking English lessons is not the best way to learn. This coming from a teacher. You need to be self motivated. I never took a Russian lesson once in my life. Being thrown into a Russian only environment. You learn fast. Like telling your Russian neighbour to turn the TV sound down at night in the most diplomatic way to not piss em off.
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FSU people aren’t very subtle when it comes to being diplomatic and using reasoning. When the beds rocking, the neighbors can be very psychotic. It’s a good laugh. I just tell my wife that if you yield to them they will take huge advantage of you...that’s why you antagonize them twice as bad. One lady followed us down the street and threatened to call the cops on us. Yeah..like that’s going to happen. The cops would just laugh. Another neighbor was using a butter knife on the radiator to signal that things were to loud. I just did the same thing to them but grabbed two butter knifes and started playing on the radiator like it was a drum to a beat of the music video on M1.
One lady rang the doorbell 50 times and when I opened the door she instantly came in and said she was the building manager and if we didn’t quiet down then she’d kick us out. We gave her the sign that had the owners telephone number and to call him if she had a problem. She got mad and said the information was outdated. Then left in a hissy fit. If I’m paying a boat load of money at a place then suck it up. I’ve watched family dramas on tv and noise is something they have to tolerate..hence the reason for the rugs on the wall.
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OMG!!!!
this is what happened to me after I lived there for 3 years, I started pushing little old ladies out of the way who tried to cut me off in line, uttering "suka" under my breath just loud enough for them to hear...
my first year back in the USA was "tense" and I had to re-adapt to the USA...
my family and I are going to look at living part-time abroad if we can all agree on a choice!!!
somewhere over the rainbow...
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I couldn't quite follow, she scammed you on English lessons? Nowadays
taking English lessons is not the best way to learn. This coming from a
teacher. You need to be self motivated. I never took a Russian lesson
once in my life. Being thrown into a Russian only environment.
You learn fast. Like telling your Russian neighbour to turn the TV sound
down at night in the most diplomatic way to not piss em off.
This was 14 years ago. She tried a scam, it didn't work.
I paid for one month of English lessons with somebody that I
knew. After the month was finished, it was time to pay again.
However, she told the English teacher that she didn't want
the lessons, but she would pretend that she took them for
half of the money.
She threatened the English teacher that she would tell me
that he kept the money and didn't give her any lessons the
previous month and thought that I would believe her since
she jumped my bones repeatedly and I would believe
whatever she said.
I paid to have my wife Angel Eyes and daughter Smiley girl
to have English lessons, when they both still lived in Russia.
They both improved dramatically.
I learned Russian anatomy by sitting on a bed with a naked
and sexy Russian girl. She would shine my flashlight on one
of her body parts and, if I was able to correctly identify it, I
would get smothered in Kisses. I was very motivated. I don't
think that there is a more effective way on Earth to learn
a language then really wanting to communicate with a member
of the opposite sex.
Udachi!
Bill
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well, that reminds me of a young woman I met in one of the many Crimean farming villages that were established as labor supply for grape planting/harvesting during the early Soviet period.
big blue eyes, long slender legs, light brown hair, age 22
we were going to her babooshka’s dom to feed her cow
then she decided to milk the cow and asked me to do it
I told her I didn’t know how!
so, she showed me how....
moooooooooooo!
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I’m surprised people can fall for these scams as you have the upper hand because even if these girls can speak passable English or not even able to..FSU people are expressive body language wise. Sure on the street they are zombies but Ever watch them talk..they move their hands and arms, their head nods up and down while speaking. When they have to speak English then it’s a dead giveaway. Their facial expressions will tell you a different story. Their stiff and no flow to their motion. Their pupils will shrink like a tiny speck of dust, their face looks stonewalled etc. they don’t look happy.
That should be indication that your either blinded by beauty or maybe it’s the time and money invested in a girl that there’s no turning back. I would never think that it’s because she’s from the FSU that she’s so serious and boring and needs time to open up because all the girls I talked to were incredibly attentive and laughed and smiled while I was selecting who deserves my time. Genuine interest is clearly visible. I have videos of my wife on my first visit with me talking in the camera being a fool and her looking at me like a love sick puppy and a look and stare that says your so cool...it’s really noticeable. I’m not joking..But one major benefit is that these women aren’t like western chicks that have dated 20 guys by the time they turn 30 and don’t get me started on the numbers of lads they slept with in their ho phase(university, clubs, march breaks). FSU women might be lucky to have dated a few men and I mean 3 tops and it’s the same guy. Serious, on their cellphone, boring, quiet, cheap, cheating is ok if not married, etc. it’s not a pick up culture.
That’s where being unique, funny, assertive and funny or something they never seen is a huge asset. It’s like in the west dating a girl that’s a knockout in bed, sweet, funny, do anything in the world for you but you took advantage of it and lost out...you’d always compare her to everyone you now meet until you get lucky enough for another chance if so. Well... the same thing for them. Your like a rockstar to them and everyone else becomes invisible because guess what... what else do they have better to compare you with..their ex’s...hahaha. Your westerners... bring your best and how can you lose...impossible.
It’s to bad you got scammed back in the day but at least you got some chick named angel eyes. I ended up with a chick named bedroom eyes so therefor I win
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FSU people aren’t very subtle when it comes to being diplomatic and using reasoning. When the beds rocking, the neighbors can be very psychotic. It’s a good laugh. I just tell my wife that if you yield to them they will take huge advantage of you...that’s why you antagonize them twice as bad. One lady followed us down the street and threatened to call the cops on us. Yeah..like that’s going to happen. The cops would just laugh. Another neighbor was using a butter knife on the radiator to signal that things were to loud. I just did the same thing to them but grabbed two butter knifes and started playing on the radiator like it was a drum to a beat of the music video on M1.
One lady rang the doorbell 50 times and when I opened the door she instantly came in and said she was the building manager and if we didn’t quiet down then she’d kick us out. We gave her the sign that had the owners telephone number and to call him if she had a problem. She got mad and said the information was outdated. Then left in a hissy fit. If I’m paying a boat load of money at a place then suck it up. I’ve watched family dramas on tv and noise is something they have to tolerate..hence the reason for the rugs on the wall.
So basically, you are no different than the Ukrainians you criticize.
ETA - My bad, one difference - you have more dollars in your pocket and therefore believe you are entitled to be a boor.
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Sounds like a waste of time to me.
Why mess around with this when there are tens of thousands of women available on the monthly pay websites?
That is true, or even better on Facebook)
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It’s to bad you got scammed back in the day but at least you got some chick named angel eyes. I ended up with a chick named bedroom eyes so therefor I win
She tried to scam me but it didn't work.
I found exactly the girl I wanted and I'm happy, so I win.
I'm glad that you've found a winner as well.
Udachi!
Bill
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That is true, or even better on Facebook)
Speaking of this, Facebook just announced they are launching an on platform dating feature.
Match Group's stock price just took a nosedive after this announcement.
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That is true, or even better on Facebook)
I've found girls on VK.com, Mamba.ru and MySpace because
they have a search function. Facebook doesn't, so I've never
used it to find a girl.