US Education Assessments for FSUW

[CaptB]

Jumper,


My RW wife has a degree in English language/literature. At the time my wife attended college there was basically the "5 year" degree.....no 4 year bachelors degree really existed. The 5 year was not "called" a masters degree. I here on this board, all of the time, about how the guys "don't think" their wives degrees will transfer. The accreditation service we used (in Milwaukee, WI) said that the majority of foreign degrees do indeed transfer. I would think something so universal as accounting, math, sciences would transfer. There are about a dozen academic accreditation services in the us that give equivalents in a us degree. I believe we paid about $400 at the time (2005). They gave my wife a certificate with the US equivalent of: 1) A Masters degree in English language & literature......and......2) a bachelors degree in Russian language literature. She has taught various classes at the local university center for one six years.


We did our homework. Not "all" services are accepted by all colleges and universities. The one we used in Milwaukee.....was universally accepted.


Capt B

[Jumper]

Jumper,


My RW wife has a degree in English language/literature. At the time my wife attended college there was basically the "5 year" degree.....no 4 year bachelors degree really existed. The 5 year was not "called" a masters degree. I here on this board, all of the time, about how the guys "don't think" their wives degrees will transfer. The accreditation service we used (in Milwaukee, WI) said that the majority of foreign degrees do indeed transfer. I would think something so universal as accounting, math, sciences would transfer. There are about a dozen academic accreditation services in the us that give equivalents in a us degree. I believe we paid about $400 at the time (2005). They gave my wife a certificate with the US equivalent of: 1) A Masters degree in English language & literature......and......2) a bachelors degree in Russian language literature. She has taught various classes at the local university center for one six years.


We did our homework. Not "all" services are accepted by all colleges and universities. The one we used in Milwaukee.....was universally accepted.


Capt B

Mark, Thanks for that advice,  I will look further into it.

She was working (in accounting) in a location and pay scale she was happy with, prior to our little one came along ,
so getting her degree accredited just sadly wasn't a huge priority
or one either of us put much time into.
It is important and we should get that taken care of regardless.
(and yes she has the more typical 5 year degree from there)

[calmissile]

Jumper,


My RW wife has a degree in English language/literature. At the time my wife attended college there was basically the "5 year" degree.....no 4 year bachelors degree really existed. The 5 year was not "called" a masters degree. I here on this board, all of the time, about how the guys "don't think" their wives degrees will transfer. The accreditation service we used (in Milwaukee, WI) said that the majority of foreign degrees do indeed transfer. I would think something so universal as accounting, math, sciences would transfer. There are about a dozen academic accreditation services in the us that give equivalents in a us degree. I believe we paid about $400 at the time (2005). They gave my wife a certificate with the US equivalent of: 1) A Masters degree in English language & literature......and......2) a bachelors degree in Russian language literature. She has taught various classes at the local university center for one six years.


We did our homework. Not "all" services are accepted by all colleges and universities. The one we used in Milwaukee.....was universally accepted.


Capt B

Capt B,

My wife will soon be needing to investigate the transfer of her degrees from Ukraine.  A more detailed explanation of the process you went through might be helpful to many of us.

You stated that you wife was given equivalent degrees in the US.   Was it the agency that evaluates foreign study that grants the degree or does she submit the findings to a local college or university that then grants the degrees?

How did you go about selecting the company that does the evaluations?  When we looked at it for California colleges there must have been 15 or 20 different firms that are acceptable.  Does anyone on the forum have experience in selecting one of these firms for California accreditation?  Also, most of the data we pulled up on transfer of foreign study was based upon becoming a teacher.

The timing is about right for us to look further into this.  Any help is appreciated.  She is currently in Level 4 of the TOEFL program.  There is no college credit for these classes even at the expense of about $4K per quarter.   

[HoundDaddyLee]

Capt B,

My wife will soon be needing to investigate the transfer of her degrees from Ukraine.  A more detailed explanation of the process you went through might be helpful to many of us.

You stated that you wife was given equivalent degrees in the US.   Was it the agency that evaluates foreign study that grants the degree or does she submit the findings to a local college or university that then grants the degrees?

How did you go about selecting the company that does the evaluations?  When we looked at it for California colleges there must have been 15 or 20 different firms that are acceptable.  Does anyone on the forum have experience in selecting one of these firms for California accreditation?  Also, most of the data we pulled up on transfer of foreign study was based upon becoming a teacher.

The timing is about right for us to look further into this.  Any help is appreciated.  She is currently in Level 4 of the TOEFL program.  There is no college credit for these classes even at the expense of about $4K per quarter.   

I still cannot believe that Cal State San Bernardino charges 4K a quarter. My last quarter there for my Bachelor's (spring 85) was $70 + books + extra for parking ($15 I think).


HDL

[jone]

I still cannot believe that Cal State San Bernardino charges 4K a quarter. My last quarter there for my Bachelor's (spring 85) was $70 + books + extra for parking ($15 I think).


HDL

Wow.  Look who came up for air.

[ML]

You stated that you wife was given equivalent degrees in the US.   Was it the agency that evaluates foreign study that grants the degree or does she submit the findings to a local college or university that then grants the degrees?

Doug, no USA university is going to 'give' anyone a degree based on some evaluation process.

What he meant was the evaluation service stated that her study provided essentially the same outcome as X degree here in USA.

Very important that, if possible, you have an idea where the foreign person might look for a job.  Then check with that employer to determine which evaluation companies they accept evaluations from.  Otherwise, it can be wasted money, as a given employer may require that you pay again to another evaluation company.

[ML]

 The one we used in Milwaukee.....was universally accepted.

Sorry, no such service.

[ML]

My RW wife has a degree in English language/literature. At the time my wife attended college there was basically the "5 year" degree.....no 4 year bachelors degree really existed. The 5 year was not "called" a masters degree. They gave my wife a certificate with the US equivalent of: 1) A Masters degree in English language & literature......and......2) a bachelors degree in Russian language literature. She has taught various classes at the local university center for one six years.

Two points here:

1) There is great misunderstanding of the system in FSU and the old SU.
Students only finished 10th grade and some even missed on earlier grade (like there was no 4th grade or some such) due to some screwy reason.  They then went on to college as 17 year olds whereas most USA students are 19 when they start college.  So the first two years of college were somewhat analogous to our 11th and 12th grade of high school.  So why on earth would anyone think that this 5 year diploma had anything to do with a masters degree.  The 5 year diploma was basically a 2 year high school program and a 3 year college program.

Yes, we could argue all day about whether the rigor of their system (in terms of what they learned, how much depth, etc) compared to ours.

2) Here I am not wanting to single out CaptB (but just happens I am posting here) but am directing at all men here who have claimed their spouses got evaluation indicating bachelors and masters from the 5 year diploma, but . . .

I simply do not believe it.  Sure I could be wrong.

But I will shut up if someone will put up.

So I challenge anyone to post here photos of the 5 year diploma and the evaluation showing bachelors and masters degree equivalent.  Black out the names of course.

[Jumper]

The 5 year diploma was basically a 2 year high school program and a 3 year college program.

I'd agree  that's a fairly  accurate assessment.

I do not think my wife's FSU degree would equivalent of  a masters , here or there. They do use the term higher degree (as she studied 7 years eventually) but again, i'm unsure of what that equates to here.
 

 

[ML]

I'd agree  that's a fairly  accurate assessment.

I do not think my wife's FSU degree would equivalent of  a masters , here or there. They do use the term higher degree (as she studied 7 years eventually) but again, i'm unsure of what that equates to here.

Actually in FSU, they call the 5 year diploma a higher education.  Then if someone goes on to something like our masters program, they often refer to it as a 'second education.'

Going back to 2004 - 08 Yushenko tried to change the  system to more closely mirror the USA system.  They added another year to high school and then wanted to have 4 year bachelor program and USA styled masters program.  But when Yanokovich came to power, he ditched this program.

[calmissile]

I still cannot believe that Cal State San Bernardino charges 4K a quarter. My last quarter there for my Bachelor's (spring 85) was $70 + books + extra for parking ($15 I think).


HDL

HDL,
Here is the breakdown for the previous quarter.  Could not find the receipt for this current quarter but it was $39XX.XX.   Note all of these fees are mandatory and do not include the $125 per quarter parking fee.  What a bunch of crooks.  According to my wife the classes are full of Saudi's and a few Asians.

Tuition and Fees
English Language Program           Study Abroad in the USA (12 units)
Tuition                    $3,150.00        $3,400.00
Campus Fees              $383.37          $383.37
Health Insurance        $280.00          $280.00

Total                        $3,813.37       $4,063.37

My earlier comment was not because I was expecting for her to be given a degree in the USA.  I asked the question to get a clarification to what the OP posted.

I had not thought about having assessment for an employer.  What we were thinking about is how much of her study in UA could be transferred and how much more study she would need to get advanced degrees at one of our colleges.

Based on these asinine college fees, she may have to change her plans unless she can land a job whereby the employer pays for much of her additional education. Another couple of quarters and she should be fluent in English which might allow her to get a decent job with her previous studies and business experience.  Keeping my fingers crossed.
 
 

[Steamer]

I had not thought about having assessment for an employer.  What we were thinking about is how much of her study in UA could be transferred and how much more study she would need to get advanced degrees at one of our colleges.

The only way to know for sure is to find out what evaluation service the college accepts then do the evaluation and then the college will tell you what she needs. I promise that there will always be a couple of classes that she will need. She will also need to take an English proficiency test (TOEFL). Be sure to make extra copies of the evaluation for employers and whoever.


Sure it will cost a few hundred bucks but it is well worth it.

[calmissile]

The only way to know for sure is to find out what evaluation service the college accepts then do the evaluation and then the college will tell you what she needs. I promise that there will always be a couple of classes that she will need. She will also need to take an English proficiency test (TOEFL). Be sure to make extra copies of the evaluation for employers and whoever.


Sure it will cost a few hundred bucks but it is well worth it.

Thanks for the info Steamer.  Larissa is currently in Level 4 of the TOEFL program at Cal State.  We will look into getting an evaluation of her UA education.

[HoundDaddyLee]

HDL,
Here is the breakdown for the previous quarter.  Could not find the receipt for this current quarter but it was $39XX.XX.   Note all of these fees are mandatory and do not include the $125 per quarter parking fee.  What a bunch of crooks.  According to my wife the classes are full of Saudi's and a few Asians.

Tuition and Fees
English Language Program           Study Abroad in the USA (12 units)
Tuition                    $3,150.00        $3,400.00
Campus Fees              $383.37          $383.37
Health Insurance        $280.00          $280.00

Total                        $3,813.37       $4,063.37

Why the health insurance? Yikes, $125 for parking? Thieves!


HDL

[ML]

Doug, I'm sure you checked, but . . . isn't there a Jr College nearby that gives practically free English lessons?  This is very common and note that recently Big Bill stated his wife going to the free classes in Wyoming.

There wasn't a Jr College near here, so no such available for Ochka.

Her tuition was also around $4,000, but that was per semester, not per quarter.  So only $8,000 for the 9 month school year.

She attended for two semesters, then took TOEFL and got certificate for receiving highest score of any who took at her school that testing period.  Her score also met standard for acceptance to graduate school here.  Later, before she could teach, she had to take another university SPEAK test which judged whether others could understand her spoken sentences.  She passed that also.

I would check into MBA programs in your area.  Most MBA programs do not require undergrad in business, but she would have to take GMAT exam and score high enough.  And, there might be scholarships available which cover tuition.  There might even be scholarships restricted to persons from FSU that have been funded by local  'big money' FSU folks.

There might be opportunities for her to be teaching assistant in a Russian language course.

A lot of stuff out there; but hard to find, and not always nearby, etc.

[calmissile]

ML,
There are only two realistic choices here.  The ESL classes which are taught two nights a week for about 3 hours.  Larissa spent over a year in that program and we both considered it a waste of time.  The learning is so slow at that pace that a different solution was necessary.

We checked into all the local colleges and universities and the only one with a TOEFL program was Cal State San Bernardino. Larissa was getting frustrated at the slow progress learning English at the ESL classes.  I was getting a little frustrated also.

Once she finishes the TOEFL classes she will look into the other colleges including University of Redlands.  She has UA degrees in Business and Argonomics.  Still have not figured out exactly what Argonomics is but I think it has a lot to do with agriculture. 

She just did a translation for me and the result was "Master's degree.  Agronomist   Plant Protection."  Now I know more.   

Her later degree translates as "Masters degree.  Academic economist in accounting and auditing".

The agronomist degree was 6 years of study and involved 42 different subjects.  The business degree which she did later was 3 years of study.

Somehow she needs to get some professional advice as to which direction to pursue and what the rewards are of each choice.  Other than a college counselor, do you have any ideas as to where she can find someone with the knowledge to evaluate her options?

[ML]

Cal, my bedtime, but a quick answer.

With her second degree in accounting and auditing, I think she could land a beginning job with a local accounting firm near your home.  She could start out as a book keeper, move up to accountant . . . etc.

I think they would even hire her now before she finishes the TOEFL.  Basic book keeping is fairly standard, even if she doesn't understand differences between SU - USA full financial statement procedures.

Or aside from accounting firms, she should be able to land a job as accounts payable clerk and wouldn't really have to interact much with people.  Accounts receivable clerk would be harder because she would have to be calling asking for people to pay, etc.

I didn't know she had this academic background . . . or I would have recommended this a few years back.

You and she are actually pretty lucky that she has this background compared to the academic background of several of the other wives here.

Go to it !!

[CaptB]

ML,


I do take offense with your idea (did "your" wife ever have her credentials evaluated) that "no one" is going to give someone a "masters degree" for a lowly 5 year Russian
college education. As you have now stated that there is "no such" accreditation service in Milwaukee....I will have my wife pull her certificate information tomorrow. No college or University supplies such accreditation.....only about a dozen (or maybe more....now ?) such companies exist to supply "equivalency" (not actual) college/university experience. My wife "has" received an equivalency certificate which states that the service has determined to designate  "her" education as a Masters degree in English Language/Literature.....and a bachelors degree (equivalent) in Russian Language literature. My wife had "more" college experience than the 2/3 high school/college experience that you described. There is such a thing as "life experience" that comes into play. Before my wife came to the US.....she taught English for over 10 years at an international (private) language institute.....which had some bearing on the evaluation which she received. All accreditation companies are not universally accepted by "all" universities. We contacted university websites of "all" possible intuitions in "Michigan" that she would remotely consider (teaching) applying to. Then picked a dozen or so "state universities" such as University of Michigan, Michigan State, Ohio State, UCLA, Brigham Young, etc etc. It becomes clear (at least 10 years ago) ......"which services are "universally accepted" by most universities. We chose a service in Milwaukee.....because it was in the midwest.....and next door (to Michigan)......and universally accepted (but no more expensive)......by most major (and minor) colleges/universities. With out the accreditation certificate......my wife would not have been teaching "university" classes for 6+ years.


We did this a long time ago. My wife did most of the information gathering herself. My input was to see if there was a pattern as to which accreditation companies were (close to) being universally accepted. I no longer give advice about US immigration......too many changes in the past 13 years......my advice would probably be mostly irrelevant. Someone asked for more detailed advice about credential accreditation. I can give some basics....which are mostly in this post....already.


1) Google: foreign college/university transcript accreditation services/companies.


2) Some services will accept your "spouses copy of course transcripts (our center did). Some contact the colleges/universities themselves....directly............this can take sometime. If you have not brought your spouse/finance over here yet.......have them contact their universities to apply for copies of transcripts........regardless of whether they think they will be needed or not. It is less hassle if they get them in their respective countries.


3) Search a good "mix" of any possible colleges/universities you might possibly use (especially if teaching). "Universally accepted" is what you should try to come close to.....most folks will only do this "once".....so don't just consider expense.


ML,


I don't know why you could not find "such a service" in Milwaukee. Maybe it no longer exists.....but I will have my wife (asleep at this moment....dig through her records. I did not even start this thread (where is the rest of it ?)....I only answered to a moderator's statement about "his" wife's situation. When these threads are moved.....pieces seem to disappear sometimes. We seem to have the occasional misunderstanding here. I once seemed to have issues with a certain "JB" on the original RWG......almost 20 years ago. "JB" provided very insightful and "accurate" information......mainly because he had been making trips to Russia four times a year.....for 25 years. I told him one day....we should talk. It was at this time "I" was not particularly "mild mannered" when giving opinions....or advice. My approach was not to give in to anger....but with insight.....calmness..................and sarcasm.......if I had a weapon. "JB" is one of the most intelligent....educated.....people I know. But he had little patience for folks who gave advise on subjects of which they had "zero" experience. We started out with possible "confrontation".......as our motive.......for an eventual "phone conversation". It could have been WWIII........but instead turned-out to be.......an almost 20 year friendship. I was even the co-best man (along with his very nice step son)......at his wedding in Moscow. I would agree that much of my advice......is by now......"dated"........at least with statistics, immigration issues etc. etc.. But I can give advice on a 13 year marriage to an RW......which.....no doubt.....will still be going strong......for many....many more years. Meeting someone and bringing them to your country......even with the known pitfalls.........is the easy part.......only the beginning. To have a marriage really last.......is work.....and a lot of compromise. My wife and I really "know" one another. At the end of the movie "Two Brothers and a Bride"......Emily Mortimer's character says...."I want someone to know me......I want to be ....known". That line really jumped out at me....it really has some significance.....as far as relationships are concerned.


ML,


I don't have over 6,000 post on this forum......I will be amazed if I ever approach ......1,000. I don't do this often........19 years ago for "JB"........17 years ago for "Chuck" (both from the RWG at that time)......but you look like a likely candidate.........for a phone call. I will PM you. The truth is......no one here ........"really".....knows each other. I have actually met in person......a half dozen forum members (mainly from the RWG).......and learned more about them in a few hours.....than in several years of banter......on the two (RWG & RWD) major forums.


Capt B

[CaptB]

I just contacted "AnonMod" to complain that I am "not" the originator of this thread......which was moved. I received a message that "AnonMod" was blocking my e-mail. So my message was "not" received. About three months ago I sent a e-mail to "management" on this forum and have yet to receive a reply. Anyone else with similar issues. Is this forum being "moderated"..???


Capt B

[ML]

Quote from: CaptB on October 01, 2016, 04:54:19 AM

The one we used in Milwaukee.....was universally accepted.

Sorry, no such service.

My 'no such' was directed at the 'universally accepted.'

[ML]

ML, I do take offense with your idea (did "your" wife ever have her credentials evaluated) that "no one" is going to give someone a "masters degree" for a lowly 5 year Russian college education.

I stand by my offensive words until proven otherwise.  I did not use the word 'lowly.'

As you have now stated that there is "no such" accreditation service in Milwaukee

No, I did not.  No such 'universally accepted' accreditation service in Milwaukee.

My wife had "more" college experience than the 2/3 high school/college experience that you described. There is such a thing as "life experience" that comes into play. Before my wife came to the US.....she taught English for over 10 years at an international (private) language institute.....which had some bearing on the evaluation which she received.

Now you are changing the facts regarding what was evaluated.  I said no one is going to equate a 5 year FSU diploma to a bachelors and masters degree.  I stand by that.  However, you didn't say that you submitted other evidence to be evaluated.  Yes, I know you said that she had taught, but you didn't specify submitting any of those records to be evaluated.


"universally accepted" by most universities.

You repeat this oxymoron which caused the problem in your previous post.


With out the accreditation certificate......my wife would not have been teaching "university" classes for 6+ years.

I never said your wife did not have an accreditation certificate nor that she had not been teaching.  To repeat:  No  one is going to give bachelors and masters degree equivalency solely based on a 5 year diploma from FSU.


did "your" wife ever have her credentials evaluated

No, she did not.  We had her 5 year diploma translated into English and that was sent to the university where she enrolled in masters degree program and received her MS.  Then she continued on as instructor at that same university.

As is somewhat logical, this university cares nothing about what her 5 year diploma might equate to, because they only care that she was the very top student in the MS program.

However, we do (at least I do) understand that she would need the evaluation if she were to apply for a teaching position at another institution.  And as a further complication or absurdity . . . she can teach calculus and differential equations at the university . . . but would not be allowed to teach first grade math at an elementary school because of the 'teaching certification' (not the same thing as having an appropriate degree.)

The teaching certification requires several more courses in the education department of a college that are supposed to teach you how to teach; regardless of how long you have been teaching already at a university.  In reality, this is a monopoly like feature sponsored by teachers unions and their friends in education departments which has the goal of limiting the supply of competing teachers.  There are many people with degrees in math, physics, chemistry, etc. and years of experience in industry who would be willing to teach in these shortage areas . . . but they are kept from it by the 'teaching certification' requirement.  They refuse to go back to college to take X number of extremely low level 'instruction technique' courses.

[CaptB]

ML,


As I stated (not shouting).....my wife's education exceeded the typical 2/3 (high school/university) regimen. Her 10+ years of teaching experience (life experience) may have contributed to the evaluation she received. Everyone's experience will be different. As my wife just pointed out.....her evaluation was done 12 years ago. The company we used at that time was:


                               Educational Credential Evaluators, Inc.
                               P. O. Box 514070
                               Milwaukee, Wisconsin 53203-3470 USA
                               
                               


                               Telephone  414-289-3400
                               Fax            414-289-3411
                               E-mail        Eval@ece.org




These credentials were accepted by "all" educational institutions that were of interest to "our" situation.....hence the word......"universal". We (of course) did not contact every educational institute in the country (US)......so in this respect......ML is correct. Anyway (for us).....the evaluation certificate served its purpose. My wife has taught at the college/university level for over six years. In addition......she took the state (Michigan) teaching exams for secondary education.....and has been a substitute teach for almost 10 years.


Capt B


















                               

[CaptB]

Again (not shouting)......I did not start this thread. The first few posts have apparently disappeared when the topic was "moved" from "advanced".....to "married". I was several posts down from the original poster. I believe I directed a reply to "Jumper". No big deal......just a little strange.


Capt B

[Jumper]

CaptB,
 Some mod simply broke it off from the original thread .
As a separate but relevant subject it  made more sense in a thread of its on.

I no longer mod here ,(despite the designation) ,
and it could be any one of several mods that split the topic off.

Seems the best thing to do ,so good on them.

[Boethius]

I just contacted "AnonMod" to complain that I am "not" the originator of this thread......which was moved. I received a message that "AnonMod" was blocking my e-mail. So my message was "not" received. About three months ago I sent a e-mail to "management" on this forum and have yet to receive a reply. Anyone else with similar issues. Is this forum being "moderated"..???


Capt B

You are the "originator" of a thread if a thread is split from another thread.

Anonmod doesn't accept emails.  You have to hit the "Report to Moderator" button.

[CaptB]

Boethius,


Yes....you are right (sort of). But it was under duress.....:-)


Capt B

[ML]

my wife's education exceeded the typical 2/3 (high school/university) regimen. Her 10+ years of teaching experience (life experience) may have contributed to the evaluation she received.                           

You are still clouding the issue.

You talk about 'education' but then seem to be adding in 'work experience' that made the education exceed 2/3.

i.e.  Most people say something like . . . I had 4 years of college and have worked for 20 years.  They don't infer that they have 24 years of education.

Sure we all understand that work and other life experiences are valuable, but we don't lump them all together.

Of course we are beating this to death, and you are under no obligation to answer, but . . .

It would be nice if you would just state if she did in fact have additional years of course work education (not work experience in education) beyond the 2/3.

My only original intent was to throw water on idea that someone might think that the 5 year diploma would translate into a bachelor and masters degree in USA.

You have clouded up the issue greatly with your shifting definition of what education your wife had that was evaluated.

You are not the first to have done this . . . but let's hope the last.

[Steamer]

So I challenge anyone to post here photos of the 5 year diploma and the evaluation showing bachelors and masters degree equivalent.  Black out the names of course.

My wife's 5 yr diploma was evaluated as a bachelor and masters degree (she was eval. as a PhD in math and physics). It all depends on the university. The top universities WILL be evaluated as a masters. As you know not all universities are created equal, especially in the FSU. This is why employers and colleges demand an evaluation.


And there's no way in hell I'd post my wife's degrees here.

[CaptB]

ML,


I did not "cloud" any issue. I stated in ADDITION to my wife's "life experience"......her "formal" education exceeded the typical 2/3 college education. Don't get personal. You want to start questioning my integrity? Some guys seem to do that .....from behind the safety of their computer. I am only here (on this forum) to help. What are you here for?


Capt B