Natasha K*** - a "scammer" ?!?

[catzenmouse]

Hi Rose,

 Good to see you around again, and congratulations on your degree!

 In knowing the little bit that I do about the FSU it is not in the least surprising that the offer of sending old magazines would be an insult. We've seen time and time again here how things like antiques are seen as being less than desirable because they are old. If they guy had any sincerity to his offer, a subscription for her would have been a reasonably offer to make. That is really neither here nor there though. It is a pattern of behavior by the man that tells more than the magazine offer.

 Personally I would take Rose at her word over any scam site report without a second thought and over a large percentage of membership here as well. Her good sense and integrity has been shown time and time again.

FWIW,
 Ken

[wiz]

That's good but will anti date send an agent to investigate the man? They may need to match the penis in the video with the man in question.

Wiz, I've not read the anti date thread but who slandered who first? The Scottish man or Natasha?

Congratulations Rose on your masters degree.

Billy


Here is the link to Natasha's first post on Antidate:

http://forum.antidate.org/index.php?showtopic=6493&st=0

This is a translation with promt of the first post of Natasha (Yustina) on the 3 April 2007.


Yustina (Natasha)

I have the candidate worthy and checked up in all respects for black lists: the fan(amateur) мастурбации in front of the chamber (video-materials are available), sexual harassments, jealousy, greed, the numerous lie, eternally dying and died relatives on the eve of the planned meetings, is not dissolved, the wife-венгерка, ostensibly, was missing 2 years ago, many sweet promises, but all – empty. At the same time душка, the mild visionary and as-as if harmless, but to receive on a freebie wants much. Communicated intensively within several months: for me it was experiment, and it(he) has become attached and to come unstuck does not want. I speak, you are a greedy person and the liar, I shall not entrust you more, гуд бай. And it(he) in the answer: I do not want гуд бай, you in my heart anyhow.

What with it(him) to do(make)?

I wish to offer it(him) a condition: it(he) cleans(removes) the questionnaires from all sites of acquaintances voluntary but if I somewhere shall see it(him) again it will be brought in black lists. I do not want, that it(he) stole time from our girls as marry it(he) cannot and its(his) greatest passion – it(he)-лайн sex and real, but only due to the girl does not gather and the nearest years.

So, now it is clear, that such "hero" needs to be known by sight. As soon as has understood, that sex will not receive, has passed to rudeness, insults and threats:
scott [edited surname], 39 years, 20.12.1967, Britain, the Passionate fan(amateur) online-sex, эгсбиционист, the liar, the pathological visionary and.. It is married.

http: // www.email2men.com/search.cfm - the reference(link) not сегда opens, it(he) to a cat-mousy plays, pretends, that has cleaned(removed) the questionnaire, but I see its(his) online.
Into field Search for a Specific User enter ник [edited to remove identity]
http: // t.foto.radikal.ru/0705/c3/47019669085d.jpg - a photo
(IMG:http: // gallery.antidate.org/albums/userpics/10630/M26130016-1.jpg) - a photo

Also on May 4 answering a question:

Wiera

What for all this? To collect "home video", to observe of this process, the nobility, as says lies - and to untwist it(him) on this nonsense... The Question from the category rhetorical.
Time is not a pity, and? For these months could find someone decent!;)


Answer by Yustina:

Video have been sent for 3 day of dialogue - as though for fun. Swore, that has not understood with whom deals. And that says lies it became known not at once - in 3 months In general, all has casually turned out. I was not going to communicate with it(him). But it was interesting to me to understand psychology of such people.
And it is a pity to time, certainly, though there were many pleasant and amusing moments in dialogue, it(he) amused under the full program. And at me in parallel went some more "decent".
I would not began to waste time on the finished ugly creature, and this yet not absolutely finished!

If you ranslate the whole thread you will find that there is very little information about the whole relationship etc.

The fact that another 2 women came out and said that they were communicating also with him is not here nor there as they do not give any details of meeting him! Actually the first one stopped talking to him on the 3rd day.

What I have questioned about this post is the fact that Antidate allowed Yustina to post his photo before any hard evidence were found or posted. So far I can only see that he has not posted any replies.

It would be nice if we could advice him that he has been discussed over here and invite him to tell us his side of the story.

Rose if you have his email address please PM me and I will ask him to come here and reply.

catzenmouse

Nobody is disputing the integrity or honesty of Rose...... we simply want to know more about it! It is my view and from what I read before that Natasha has been foolish to continue communicating with him after she received the Video with his dick. Please read her highlighted comments in her reply!

May I also remind you 2TallBill story and how he was and still is castigated by the Antidate women?

Finding the truth by listening to both sides I think is the best way about it!


 
2TallBill

You are a lucky man..... I have already found you your Christmas Present! Click the photo below ....... I hope you like it so I can go ahead and pay for it!

[Simoni]

We've seen time and time again here how things like antiques are seen as being less than desirable because they are old.

Ah, good point, Ken.  Marina hates antiques.  

The reality is that professionally, I do know something about the value of magazines for English instruction.  But the reality is that what a RW woman perceives as reality IS reality. If a 4 month old magazine is an antique in her mind, then it is an antique, and useless!

So guys, forget sending magazines!

.. when *I* went to the FSU or any "date", I'd try to dress smartly and "impress".. lacking in personal hygiene, and looking scruffy is not going to win a guy any women who is actively raising her male selection options by choosing the internet in addition to the "local market" !

Any western guy who still thinks FSU women are desperate to leave are in for a big shock. For example, I've seen BIG changes in only three years of visiting Kiev. I was there three weeks ago on business and it is getting like Moscow .. so many Bentley's, etc.

How one dresses ( the brand) and looks is nearly more important in some big FSU cities than the western cities...

Good post, mob.  You are exactly correct in the importance of good hygiene and dressing smart.  And in that FSU girls value brand names and fine clothes.

[groovlstk]

P.S. If one wants to give a present, give it with respect to a person, if one doesn't want to give, just don't give at all. It's voluntary. Not all people are excited when they are given leftovers for a gift. 

This is one of those few cultural differences that are serious enough to end a relationship.

Rose, I'm not defending the dickvid guy, but the gift topic itself is worthy of its own thread.

Gift-giving in the US is much less formal and guys who haven't done their homework can fall into the trap of having a minor act of casual generosity misinterpreted and subsequently be tagged with the dreaded G-word. Since it's likely to happen early in the courting phase it can ruin a relationship before people know each other well enough patiently ask for an explanation.

Anyway, glad to see you posting again, hope you're back to stay

[antiscam_advise]

Folks,

There are different practices used in an industry, for example:
"Not guilty until proven guilty" is one of them
IRS uses a different one. "If audit takes place: Guilty until you prove otherwise"

We always remove people if this was a fraudulent submission.
What we ask for:
- The person herself contacts us, we verify her over the phone or
- In person when interested party requests a Scam Check which is negative

As my staff now reported she can now be removed.

Thank you for your posts.

Damien
http://www.russianscamcheck.org

[catzenmouse]

Wiz,

 I did not say, nor was I insinuating, that people were trying to malign Rose's integrity. I simply said that I trust her opinions and as she has spent a good deal of time on this I don't feel the need to go and research it myself.

Simoni,

 Magazines could be quite a treat just as long as you get them a subscription to something they like so it won't be seen as a hand-me-down. You'd just have to find out what her interests are and choose an appropriate magazine to subscribe to for her.

Ken

[Simoni]

Simoni,

 Magazines could be quite a treat just as long as you get them a subscription to something they like so it won't be seen as a hand-me-down.

Ken

Yes, you are correct. Nata likely comes to it with that attitude, where I approach it from the sound academic practice where magazine articles up to four years of age are prized inclusions in a book of readings.  Looks like now we are talking about two different things.  I was speaking from the standpoint that it WAS a good gift for a girl who wants to improve her English.

My first gf from Tver LOVED me sending her American magazines.  And since it takes 21 days to snail mail it, I suppose it could have been considered "old."  But she did not think so, and read every word.

[Admin]

Billy


Here is the link to Natasha's first post on Antidate:

http://forum.antidate.org/index.php?showtopic=6493&st=0

This is a translation with promt of the first post of Natasha (Yustina) on the 3 April 2007.


Yustina (Natasha)
Also on May 4 answering a question:

If you ranslate the whole thread you will find that there is very little information about the whole relationship etc.

The fact that another 2 women came out and said that they were communicating also with him is not here nor there as they do not give any details of meeting him! Actually the first one stopped talking to him on the 3rd day.

What I have questioned about this post is the fact that Antidate allowed Yustina to post his photo before any hard evidence were found or posted. So far I can only see that he has not posted any replies.

It would be nice if we could advice him that he has been discussed over here and invite him to tell us his side of the story.

Rose if you have his email address please PM me and I will ask him to come here and reply.

catzenmouse

Nobody is disputing the integrity or honesty of Rose...... we simply want to know more about it! It is my view and from what I read before that Natasha has been foolish to continue communicating with him after she received the Video with his dick. Please read her highlighted comments in her reply!

May I also remind you 2TallBill story and how he was and still is castigated by the Antidate women?

Finding the truth by listening to both sides I think is the best way about it!


 
2TallBill

You are a lucky man..... I have already found you your Christmas Present! Click the photo below ....... I hope you like it so I can go ahead and pay for it!

wiz,

I want us to be a little careful here. Antidate is, IMO, not the enemy. They formed as a predictable response to seeing many RW blacklisted with very little reason. They also saw that many shady guys from western countries were visiting the FSU for not-so-honorable reasons. Many of us here at RWD have made the very same observations. There are 'good' RW who are blacklisted on various sites with little, or no, valid reason - and there are 'bad' WM who visit the FSU. I doubt anyone would dispute these facts. Antidate's original role was to address those issues.

At some point, Antidate began doing the same thing as what they originally formed to fight against - that is, they began publishing a blacklist.

I have long-stated that I do not support ANY blacklist of ANY sort. The internet is NOT a legal system. There is simply no way that Antidate, or any other blacklist site, can be certain of the veracity of the claims which are made. The expected result is - innocent people will be injured - it is unavoidable. We have seen it in the past - and sadly, it will probably happen again in the future.

As for Rose - to the best of my knowledge, she is not one of the Antidate zealots, and she has established herself in the past at RWD as a credible and knowledgeable member. She mentioned Antidate because there has apparently been some exchange there which bears on this topic.

I see that Damien has responded and the lady in question will be removed as a scammer. That seems an equitable decision given what we know (or *think* we know - after all, this *is* the internet ).

- Dan

[rose]

If you ranslate the whole thread you will find that there is very little information about the whole relationship etc.

1. Wiz, no one's story can be compares with your endless saga. There are some people who don't like post personal stuff all over the Internet. And trust me, what you see on antidate is much less what I see there (some topics are for more private people).
2. Don't mix 2TallBill into this, it's 2 different stories.
3. Your sercumsized quote from the antidate got a slightly different meaning. But I don't want to go into the depth of it.
_________________________________________________
- To me 3 month old magazines are worth of reading in the doctor's office when there is nothing better to read.

- To RW 3 months old magazines are not antiques, they are simply garbage. That's how mentality works.

- Accusation in having lack of hygene and accusation in criminal actions are 2 different issues. While one can be accepted as a personal opinion, the other one needs to be proven. Since the site is a public place, I'm not sure that there is no law about accusing a person in criminal actions is legal. But I'm not a lawyer.

- Opening a thread about gifts I think can be very helpfut (Who knows what happened to larry's camera which he gave as a present to his wife, how the story ended?)

- Dan, thank you very much for your help.

- Everybody, thank you for your kind words on my account.

 

[Admin]

3. Your sercumsized quote from the antidate got a slightly different meaning.

 

rose, I am not certain you meant to use the term 'circumcised', but given the context of the comments, it was PERFECT!

Outstanding!

- Dan

[rose]

rose, I am not certain you meant to use the term 'circumcised', but given the context of the comments, it was PERFECT!

Outstanding!

- Dan

Yep, that's what I ment. Sorry for the lack of English...

As to Wiz, my opinion is that after he made a clown of himself there he hates Antidate more than all members of this forum together. So, I see here a personal agenda.

Wiz, do you remember that I was loyal to you as long as I could?  But you managed to destroy even my loyality. Don't blame forum, if you messed up.

[msmob]

Halleluhah !

Nata will be pleased.

Thanks to all who've contributed.

I hope we all learnt something.

Folks,

There are different practices used in an industry, for example:
"Not guilty until proven guilty" is one of them
IRS uses a different one. "If audit takes place: Guilty until you prove otherwise"

We always remove people if this was a fraudulent submission.
What we ask for:
- The person herself contacts us, we verify her over the phone or
- In person when interested party requests a Scam Check which is negative

As my staff now reported she can now be removed.

Thank you for your posts.

Damien
http://www.russianscamcheck.org

[SANDRO43]

rose, I am not certain you meant to use the term 'circumcised', but given the context of the comments, it was PERFECT!

You mean that Wiz Brit-milahed his quote ?

[Admin]

You mean that Wiz Brit-milahed his quote ?

WHOOSH!!
That's the sound of your comment flying right over my head.

Huh ???

- Dan

[SANDRO43]

The Hebrew name for that little piece of ceremonial surgery (can be performed at home with suitable equipment ).

[msmob]

Hi all

As *I * started this thread in an attempt to highlight an error, could I respectfully ask members if I might ask admin to delete all references to the ladies name/ email / photos ? ( including the name of the thread !)


I does not seem correct to delete postings that sprang up as a result..

How can this be achieved without upsetting members?

[Simoni]

I move that the whole thread simply be deleted...

Note to self:
Never ever again get involved in those silly "is she a scammer or not?" discussions!

[wiz]

Dear Rose

I only posted the first 2 posts of Natasha in reply to BillyB. I also gave the link to the thread on Antidate so anybody interested to read the whole story he could go and do it. You did not expect me to post everything here and take valuable space of RWD?

I think in all my posts here, I made a point to be objective and not to take sides, and I expressed the same opinion as many other members that it is not right for any site or forum to allow a person to be named a scammer or a user or any other label you normally use on Antidate at the word of one person, without compelling evidence.

You accuse me of personal agenda over this, because I was questioning the tactics used on Antidate where Natasha was allowed to post this person’s photo without real compelling evidence in her post and from what I have seen no real questioning of her comments and motives by the other members has taken place.

I am sorry but I only have to point out to you, Dan’s first post on this thread to see the huge difference when dealing with such important and delicate subject, which finally brought partially a good result for Natasha.
In your own words you admitted:

“I decided to write here because I respect this forum and because I believe that you guys really try to look in the depth of the problem on many issues.
This is exactly the situation when before posting someone the person who posts need to show proofs of his accusations.

I think the same should apply for the Antidate forum but then you confirm with your comments below what, we the accused men, always knew that Antidate is using double standards.

And trust me, what you see on Antidate is much less what I see there (some topics are for more private people

I am fully aware of your dictatorial tactics there and that you don’t allow full access to men for whom allegations were made against them about bad behaviour etc and the inner circle is sitting as a Judge and Jury. Your whole approach is totally one sided, hypocritical and condemnable. I was allowed to post there but I was barred of using any other facilities like, the Modify Button, PM, Look profiles and so on.

Personally I tried to reason with your members regarding my Saga, as you say, but then realised that the only purpose of your members is not to have a dialogue but to mock and ridicule any man who dares to speak to them to defend himself. So I started insulting you and taken the piss out and finally I have given you the only medicine you cannot handle, ignored you.

Now you tell me I have made myself a clown because we have different views regarding posting personal information on the internet. I expect you must have noticed that I use my own photo in my Avatar because I am honest and have nothing to be afraid of or to hide, unlike most of our members and ALL OF YOURS.

I joined this board to learn a lot of things about Russia, post and debate my own views and of course I have posted and discussed my own relationship with Mirror on the “The Dilemma”. For your information my post was one of the most successful posts on RWD with more than 30 pages and over 10000 reads and probably would have gone for longer until the intervention by Kvinna which destroyed any possibility of reconciliation between me and my then GF and finally forced Dan to Lock it!

If you want to know the merits and usefulness of that thread is that can be read by any new member who can learn how not  to continue any relationship based on false premises and learn to recognise the red flags very quickly. I was not the only contributor in that post but most if not all of the members of this board, so there are plenty of opinions there to be taken notice.

But really dear Rose I do not care about the Antidate members opinion and I am afraid my estimation about your own judgment has changed and I will question everything somebody tells me and not take it at face value. Honestly I don’t remember your loyalty and I apologise for that, because I am getting too old or I became very happy now with my new relationship.

Despite my personal feelings about Antidate I have not over here tried to ridicule your other forum but question their tactics and I can see that my own opinion co-insides with other members over here.

DAN

I know you want me to be circumcised but please do not let Sandro to use his Guillotine like last time…. It still hurts!

Sandro

I will get my own back on the 28 October when I remind you about the same day in  1940!




Simoni

I don't agree this thread to be deleted because we only heard the one side story. I have discovered the e-mail of the person we are talking about and I have alerted him about this post. He may come and want to post his side of the story.

You can all change the title of the thread and you replies using the Modify. I have already done that.

It is only fair I think for him to have the chance to do that!

[msmob]

Dear Wiz

I again suggest the admin try to find a way to remove Nat's name, as the whole raison d'etre for my pointing out she'd been wronged is sorted as far as Damien is concerned.

.. If admin wish to subsequently delete this post, in the aims of fair play, that is fine by me .

I await a solution re Nata's full name , email addy and photos being shown here..

[Admin]

Dear Wiz

I again suggest the admin try to find a way to remove Nat's name, as the whole raison d'etre for my pointing out she'd been wronged is sorted as far as Damien is concerned.

If the "gentleman" wishes to repeat the allegations on this, or on any board, you'll merely be compounding the problem.

I suggest you ask him to do what you did with me.. pm..

He should offer his evidence to Damien.

I understand you have had a bad experience with Antidate, and I would hope you agree my suggestions.

Do be sure that the "gentleman" explains why TWO ladies from different countries made similar allegations.

.. If admin wish to subsequently delete this post, in the aims of fair play, that is fine by me .

I await a solution re Nata's full name , email addy and photos being shown here..

How about if we leave it intact until we can get that SECOND blacklist site to see this thread and, maybe, reconsider their 'scammer' labeling.

Once that occurs, I am happy to modify the title, and initial posts to remove the identifying information - but retain the importance of the overall message that blacklists have the potential to harm innocent people - and those who would operate a blacklist site need to be especially sensitive to the potential for harm.

BTW - since I know Damien a little, I took the initiative to contact him - and he responded. Someone needs to contact that other blacklist site - I believe it is run by 'Saul' - and ask him to review this thread.

Sound OK?

- Dan

[Misha]

Do be sure that the "gentleman" explains why TWO ladies from different countries made similar allegations.

I read the entire thread in Russian. There are the allegations common to both women that you cite:

1. He was shorter in real life than they expected;
2. He did not dress well and his clothes were stained (ketchup,...)
3. He had odour problems
4. He is either cheap or does not have much money.

The second women sent him an e-mail explaining why she did not want to go out on a date.

Even if the allegations are true, then the solutions are quite simple:

1. If you are the woman and you meet a guy you do not like, simply do not go on a second date with him;
2. If you are a guy, make sure to wash, brush your teeth, and wear clean clothes to a date. Also, be careful when it comes to money: what is frugal to one, with be a cheap tightwad to another.

And, for both parties, a bad date does not mean that you should be airing out all your frustration on the internet for the whole world to read....

As one of the commentators wrote in Russian, sometimes it is just best to move on and find someone else.




 

[msmob]

Hmmm

Hi Dan,
Problem : a moderator on the other offending  forum says " I cannot contact the owner" and has been saying that for two days" ..washing his hands of the problem, locking threads, yet posting comments himself !

In the light of the Damien's post I don't see why Nata should have to wait to have her family  name ( surname) email addy, and photo removed, without destroying the gist of the thread.

How about if we leave it intact until we can get that SECOND blacklist site to see this thread and, maybe, reconsider their 'scammer' labeling.

Once that occurs, I am happy to modify the title, and initial posts to remove the identifying information - but retain the importance of the overall message that blacklists have the potential to harm innocent people - and those who would operate a blacklist site need to be especially sensitive to the potential for harm.

BTW - since I know Damien a little, I took the initiative to contact him - and he responded. Someone needs to contact that other blacklist site - I believe it is run by 'Saul' - and ask him to review this thread.

Sound OK?

- Dan

[Mir]

For example, I've seen BIG changes in only three years of visiting Kiev. I was there three weeks ago on business and it is getting like Moscow .. so many Bentley's, etc.

Not that I disagree there is more wealth floating around in Kiev, however I was there in August and did not see a single Bentlay. Infact top end marques are still rather rare on the roads (though no doubt they are there).
I have visited Kiev in 2004,2005,2006 and 2007 and I have not seen a dramatic change regarding the level of affluence and opulence. Yes prices have gone up, but mainly when one needs to buy property. Despite all the increase in wealth in 2004 the apartment I can hire for $145 is still available for $150 per night despite a 25-30% drop in value of the dollare. A meal at a pricey restaurant used to cost between $100-150 in 2004 and is the same in 2007.
Transportation costs (taxis) have gone up but nothing dramatic.
Certainly the airfares from UK are much higher, in 04 I could fly over for £160 rtn and now it is over £300, some of this is offset by abolishment of visa and the fee for it.
There has been no dramatic increase in the salary of people working in Ukraine so they find themselves under more and more pressure to finance the increase in costs which pinch them most if they want to buy an apartment.
Has it become more difficult to find a woman? Well I don't know from personal experience but that is what I am told by those who went looking in the last 1-2 years. Still I think that the increase in wealth of local Ukrainians is only a small part of why quality Ukrainian and Russian women are less inclined to look for Western husbands. More knowledge of how it really is to live in the west, stories of abuse and misuse by western men and maybe a developing pride of ones own country/culture might all be contributing factors, and I am certain there are other important reasons as well.

[msmob]

Hi

Either my Russian has got worse or you missed out a much more sinister reason ..


If it were just these reasons I'd say you were right , but they aren't..

I read the entire thread in Russian. There are the allegations common to both women that you cite:

1. He was shorter in real life than they expected;
2. He did not dress well and his clothes were stained (ketchup,...)
3. He had odour problems
4. He is either cheap or does not have much money.

The second women sent him an e-mail explaining why she did not want to go out on a date.

Even if the allegations are true, then the solutions are quite simple:

1. If you are the woman and you meet a guy you do not like, simply do not go on a second date with him;
2. If you are a guy, make sure to wash, brush your teeth, and wear clean clothes to a date. Also, be careful when it comes to money: what is frugal to one, with be a cheap tightwad to another.

And, for both parties, a bad date does not mean that you should be airing out all your frustration on the internet for the whole world to read....

As one of the commentators wrote in Russian, sometimes it is just best to move on and find someone else.




 

[Misha]

Hi

Either my Russian has got worse or you missed out a much more sinister reason ..


If it were just these reasons I'd say you were right , but they aren't..

Well, this is based on the post by Diva. As for the sex, she write:

"He wanted sex as soon as he arrived, but after I told him no, he did not insist."

After their final date, she sends him an SMS saying that she does not want to waste her time on a man with dirty, stinky clothing and that she won't accompany him to the airport.

She spent a couple of days with him, and when she realized that he was not for her she moved on.

Diva also states that he did not offer online sex and did not really broach the topic. She writes that he was up front an honest about still being married, and that he told her about his father's passing and funeral.

I can't see the "sinister reasons" that you are implying in the second woman's post.

A third woman writes that they exchanged SMS messages for three days and then he lost interest. Nothing too sinister there either.