Newt or Mitt VS Obama. Can either of 'em beat him?

[Shadow]

This quote just shows that you are in denial. I wouldn't waste the time to google your leaders because they are irrelevant. They don't matter thus I have no need to know.

Fair enough. I guess the last leader from my country (Netherlands) that got any fame in the US was prime-minister Kok.

[Gator]

Here is an article that might help understand my thoughts a bit better.

http://www.historylearningsite.co.uk/how_was_rome_governed.htm

The parallels in history are quite visible..

Obama is not Caesar, yet he wants to be.   Compromise has always been part of American government.  When Reagan was elected President with a majority in the Senate and House, he could have roughshod the Democrats and get his programs fully implemented.  He did not.  Instead he sat down with Tip O'Neil  and reached a compromise.  It was not 50-50, but maybe 60-40 as the Democrats still got something. 
 
This is not the case with Obama.   A President should lead the country, the entire country, and not just his fellow party members.   The country is deeply divided today.  That is not good.
 
What has happened when America has not compromised?  The Civil War is the most notable result.
 
 

[GQBlues]

Isn't all this a part of democracy?  After all, even the slaves and women were enfranchised.

Do I detect a bit of whine?

It is quite intriguing though that in a way democracy embraces a balancing act in society between the haves and have nots.

The Romans used a tactic called Bread and Circuses to appease the masses.. and the more I watch election shenanigans the more I see a modern day variant developing.

Of course it is, BC. I don't really have any problem with the entire election process but the concern I do have with the ever-increasing reliant to the state is it's erosive threat to this nation's innovative minds.

But whine? Hardly. I actually enjoy the circus show.

But I'll tell you what concerns me. There's no denying *most* of ALL the things our global community use to function in our world today came from the innovative minds of Americans, and it is no coincidence that America's social system has always been different than everyone else. That's a fact.

I do believe the process of rewarding progressive minds (capitalism) is a much better system than any 'social system' known to man. We do not even have to dive into this reality to deep for clarity to understand that. Look around you right now and tell me how many of the things that surrounds you came from the innovative minds of Americans.

Nationals from all over the global community, for decades/centuries, LEAVE the comfort of their respective systems just to get a chance to live in ours. That's also a fact.

Turning this country and it's system to be as insignificant as everyone else's because of the aspirations of the malignant few for a free meal and a free ride in life is mind-boggling. I believe clowns like Obama IS a threat to this system. The increase of social dependents in this country, coupled with the ever-growing problem and political support of illegal immigrants, is ever slowly changing this nation for the worst.

[Gator]

The issue for the election should be the economy.  A "perfect storm" is approaching America and we have already seen examples of its devastation in Europe.  To lead us, I believe we need someone who is a turnaround expert (that is what Mitt did as a highly successful businessman).   
 
We do not need the "amateur" (to quote Clinton) in office today.  His four years in office have done nothing but made the hole deeper.  And he shows no signs that he will change the direction.
 
What does he need to do?  I believe we have a general model to follow in Europe.   Yes Europe.  Don't laugh. Not the EU but the country of Sweden.  Amid the economic crises in Europe, Sweden has been a success according to my Swedish friend and reports. 
 
http://www.oregonlive.com/opinion/index.ssf/2012/04/swedish_model_produces_economi.html
 
This belief that we can have our cake and eat it too must stop.   The free lunch concept must stop.  The pain will not be small and will be shared by all. 
 
In addition I personally believe Obama is a phony.

[Faux Pas]

Fair enough. I guess the last leader from my country (Netherlands) that got any fame in the US was prime-minister Kok.

I remember Kok. Why I am not sure. Your former Prince Bernhard has proved to be the most influential of the leaders from The Netherlands if I recall but, I think you've missed my point.

[BC]

Of course it is, BC. I don't really have any problem with the entire election process but the concern I do have with the ever-increasing reliant to the state is it's erosive threat to this nation's innovative minds.

But whine? Hardly. I actually enjoy the circus show.

But I'll tell you what concerns me. There's no denying *most* of ALL the things our global community use to function in our world today came from the innovative minds of Americans, and it is no coincidence that America's social system has always been different than everyone else. That's a fact.

I do believe the process of rewarding progressive minds (capitalism) is a much better system than any 'social system' known to man. We do not even have to dive into this reality to deep for clarity to understand that. Look around you right now and tell me how many of the things that surrounds you came from the innovative minds of Americans.

Nationals from all over the global community, for decades/centuries, LEAVE the comfort of their respective systems just to get a chance to live in ours. That's also a fact.

Turning this country and it's system to be as insignificant as everyone else's because of the aspirations of the malignant few for a free meal and a free ride in life is mind-boggling. I believe clowns like Obama IS a threat to this system. The increase of social dependents in this country, coupled with the ever-growing problem and political support of illegal immigrants, is ever slowly changing this nation for the worst.

GQ,

Good discourse..

Yes I can agree with this, but try to turn things around a bit..  (as an aside, think of folks like Marconi, Einstein and a number of others who also contributed to advancements in technology)  There was a period where the US was very adept at research and transforming technology and other intellectual property into products that customers wanted, worldwide.  I remember even in the 70's and 80's the best audio equipment was from US firms.

The problem is that thereafter, actually building the products was shifted overseas, to Japan, China, Korea etc.  Not so bad one can say, but at the same time each of these countries learned every step of the way and managed to acquire all the necessary knowledge to DIY.  Firms like Apple have amassed great fortunes with 'Designed in USA', built in China.. so much so that their direct competition are whom?... other US companies?  No.  Instead of these companies concentrating on increasing the bottom line to invest in financial markets, they instead should have been setting up assembly lines in the US.  Instead of just sitting on hundreds of billions, sitting in overseas banks they should have reinvested at home.  Instead they want a tax break to bring cash back home.  Investing at home would not have cost them a dime in taxes but instead they set up 'foreign' shell companies instead.

It costs around 180 bucks to build an iphone or ipad.. Maybe 250 if it was made in the US.

Did this not lead to 'brain drain'?  Heck, why push education in highly technical fields when only a few designers are needed.  No domestic demand.. The Chinese and Koreans are smart and what the heck, everyone needs a burger flipped at home.  The smart jobs were sent overseas leaving minimum wage back home.  Now even if someone wants to build a product in the US there aren't enough highly skilled engineers and programmers available.

Now what's really quirky is that if you take a look at each of these countries, you will find all the things you so vehemently despise...  like socialized healthcare, even communism for heaven's sake....  and guess who is paying for it all?  You do, every time you go shopping.

So instead of good healthcare for US citizens, you give it away to folks overseas.

Just think about it a bit.

[calmissile]

GQ,

Good discourse..

Yes I can agree with this, but try to turn things around a bit..  (as an aside, think of folks like Marconi, Einstein and a number of others who also contributed to advancements in technology)  There was a period where the US was very adept at research and transforming technology and other intellectual property into products that customers wanted, worldwide.  I remember even in the 70's and 80's the best audio equipment was from US firms.

The problem is that thereafter, actually building the products was shifted overseas, to Japan, China, Korea etc.  Not so bad one can say, but at the same time each of these countries learned every step of the way and managed to acquire all the necessary knowledge to DIY.  Firms like Apple have amassed great fortunes with 'Designed in USA', built in China.. so much so that their direct competition are whom?... other US companies?  No.  Instead of these companies concentrating on increasing the bottom line to invest in financial markets, they instead should have been setting up assembly lines in the US.  Instead of just sitting on hundreds of billions, sitting in overseas banks they should have reinvested at home.  Instead they want a tax break to bring cash back home.  Investing at home would not have cost them a dime in taxes but instead they set up 'foreign' shell companies instead.

It costs around 180 bucks to build an iphone or ipad.. Maybe 250 if it was made in the US.

Did this not lead to 'brain drain'?  Heck, why push education in highly technical fields when only a few designers are needed.  No domestic demand.. The Chinese and Koreans are smart and what the heck, everyone needs a burger flipped at home.  The smart jobs were sent overseas leaving minimum wage back home.  Now even if someone wants to build a product in the US there aren't enough highly skilled engineers and programmers available.

Now what's really quirky is that if you take a look at each of these countries, you will find all the things you so vehemently despise...  like socialized healthcare, even communism for heaven's sake....  and guess who is paying for it all?  You do, every time you go shopping.

So instead of good healthcare for US citizens, you give it away to folks overseas.

Just think about it a bit.

You are 100% correct in your assessment.  We Americans bitch about the problem but only a small percentage understand the causes.  What should we expect from high school graduates that know nothing about economics or world history.  Even the fiscal conservatives that have been drinking the Rush Bimbo cool-aid for years still think that unrestricted capitalism is the best economic system.  We live in a global economy, we cannot regulate anything for the good of the country, etc etc.  Well, it has caught up with us!  Now the question..... is it possible to reverse the process and revert to what worked previously.   Many have doubts that it can be done,  we may be past the tipping point.

[Gator]

BC,
 
Are you advocating protectionism instead of free trade?!   If you are, virtually every mainstream economist will disagree with you.

[Shadow]

The issue for the election should be the economy.  A "perfect storm" is approaching America and we have already seen examples of its devastation in Europe.  To lead us, I believe we need someone who is a turnaround expert (that is what Mitt did as a highly successful businessman).   
 
We do not need the "amateur" (to quote Clinton) in office today.  His four years in office have done nothing but made the hole deeper.  And he shows no signs that he will change the direction.
 
What does he need to do?  I believe we have a general model to follow in Europe.   Yes Europe.  Don't laugh. Not the EU but the country of Sweden.  Amid the economic crises in Europe, Sweden has been a success according to my Swedish friend and reports. 
 
http://www.oregonlive.com/opinion/index.ssf/2012/04/swedish_model_produces_economi.html
 
This belief that we can have our cake and eat it too must stop.   The free lunch concept must stop.  The pain will not be small and will be shared by all. 
 
In addition I personally believe Obama is a phony.

Sweden has a social welfare system that exceeds the Netherlands.
They have free healthcare.
Cigarettes cost USD 10 for a pack of 24.
A liter of Vodka costs USD 30 (cheap vodka not the good stuff).
A liter (no not  gallon) of gas costs USD 3.00
Income tax is as stated on average of 33%, top income tax is 56%

I sincerely doubt that the US citizens will agree to this without revolution.

[Gator]

I sincerely doubt that the US citizens will agree to this without revolution.

   True.  Yet, there is a revolution already underway, in the opposite direction, as a natural reaction to the socialist steps taken by Obama and those before him. 

IMO the Tea Party is just as wrong as Obama.   If the Tea Party had the power of the democrats, we would still be a divided nation.   
 
Rather than one  extreme or the other, we should blend conservative economics and liberal social policy together.  That is what I mean by the Swedish model.   Maybe the whole country would get behind it. 
 
Yes, it would be radical, and we would never hit the numbers you quote, yet I believe a man such as Mitt would take steps in that direction.  After four years, we can see Obama's direction very well.   
 

Income tax is as stated on average of 33%, top income tax is 56%

True but the marginal rate had been 90% or so.  The point is that Sweden had a severe recession and instead of giving rescue money to government employees, auto workers, cash for clunkers, and other government rescues, Sweden lowered taxes.   People who made the money decided how to spend the tax savings.  The tax savings found its way into the economy efficiently without requiring government programs.
Before this, my friend made some money overseas, and spent it all on "experiences" rather than bringing it home, hiding some for future "experiences."  After this change he brought home more of his earnings.

[BC]

BC,
 
Are you advocating protectionism instead of free trade?!   If you are, virtually every mainstream economist will disagree with you.

Free trade? Nothing at all wrong with that.

There is however something wrong with tax loopholes, unbalanced revenue vs spending and systematic raping of an entire economy.

You mentioned Sweden..

Maybe look again?



Would this level of taxation be supportable in the US political climate?  Certainly not.

In fact it might be a good example.. Higher taxation IMHO forces companies to reinvest.  In the US it's simply easier to invest in financial markets at low taxable rates than it is to truly invest in the domestic economy to build with brick and mortar.

Obama has at least attempted to address these factors.. close the loopholes, implement fair taxation but at the same time provide incentives for 'made in USA' along with other aspects such as education which I believe is the cornerstone in the long run.

It took a decade to recover from the Great Depression.. and Obama did say it would take longer than his first term to recover from the financial crisis he inherited so I consider all the flap more along the lines of an impatient world demanding instant satisfaction.

These things take time and a stable course.  Romney will not provide that as his goal is to simply undo anything done until now without a hint as to what a feasible plan is.

OMG.. is healthcare that scary?...  Yes it is for one of the few, if not only industrialized nation that does not have such and insists on paying twice the going rate for medical care.  And Romney wants to take two steps back?  Of course he does... that would ruin the healthcare business that seems to be running the nation....

Let me ask one question.... what stroke of brilliance was it that made Romney so much better than he was in 2008 when he ran and lost against McCain?  If McCain was the Republican Party's best bet back then this guy must have reinvented himself into the new wheel of the century.. or?  Yes, he is a successful businessman but I'm not hearing much at all about companies Bain took over that ended up being blinding successes as in adding humongous numbers of jobs, a gazillion new products that are in global demand and increase government tax revenue..

At the moment he's just a Republican re-run.. maybe even regurgitate.. I would not be the least surprised if Palin shows up on the ticket.. lol... But please do illuminate the dark corners of my mind.. make me a fan.  Where's the beef??

[Shadow]

Gator you are correct with your assessment of why the Swedish economy did well.
Similar as much as people have credited the oil price, Russia has taken the right measures as well to overcome the crisis, which is why they are doing well now.
My inlaws were still working a couple of years ago, as the gap between salary and pension was pretty high, even for state Doctors. However, as the pensions were doubled the gap becamse much less and they decided to take full benefit. They were not the only ones, and this created a lot of jobs for younger people.
Several other measures were taken that led to higher State expenses and a budget deficit, one of the first in a long time. But the effect of stimulating the economy did work.

Sweden als managed to have the courage to cut taxes and rise debt at a time when the opposite seemed more logical. The effect was clear.

I do not advocate unlimited Government spending, rather the contrary. A Government is working with pubic funds and there for should be even more thoughtful and efficient as a corporation. But things like rising the pension age or lowering the pensions is stopping creation of jobs, and fighting unemployment is one of the most important factors in getting the economy running.
A person who receives welfare relies on taxpayers (Government) for their income. If this person get a job, he becomes a contributor.

[Gator]

BC,   You are wise in many ways but in this case something has crawled up your ass all the way to your brain.  It would be impossible to debate with someone who believes Obama's party had nothing to do with the Great Recession, who believes the many steps taken during Obama's four years were in the proper direction, etc.   We are simply so far apart that we would annoy each other.   Suffice it to say, in the words of Bill Clinton, Obama is an "amateur."
 
Shadow,   I appreciate your views.   You understand taxes, government spending 'stimulus' and the like.  The Dutch have  been very good international businessmen for centuries.

[BC]

Gator,

Have I ruffled a few feathers?

Was actually looking forward to hearing about Romney's many business achievements that would be transferrable and add substance to his somewhat awkward campaign for the presidency.

Obama somehow created the mess before being elected?

Sorry I just dont get it... and I think that's also the problem many will have come election day.

[SANDRO43]

A Government is working with pubic funds...

Taxing the oldest profession on earth ?

[GQBlues]

GQ,

Good discourse..

Yes I can agree with this, but try to turn things around a bit..  (as an aside, think of folks like Marconi, Einstein and a number of others who also contributed to advancements in technology)  There was a period where the US was very adept at research and transforming technology and other intellectual property into products that customers wanted, worldwide.  I remember even in the 70's and 80's the best audio equipment was from US firms.

The problem is that thereafter, actually building the products was shifted overseas, to Japan, China, Korea etc.  Not so bad one can say, but at the same time each of these countries learned every step of the way and managed to acquire all the necessary knowledge to DIY.  Firms like Apple have amassed great fortunes with 'Designed in USA', built in China.. so much so that their direct competition are whom?... other US companies?  No.  Instead of these companies concentrating on increasing the bottom line to invest in financial markets, they instead should have been setting up assembly lines in the US.  Instead of just sitting on hundreds of billions, sitting in overseas banks they should have reinvested at home.  Instead they want a tax break to bring cash back home.  Investing at home would not have cost them a dime in taxes but instead they set up 'foreign' shell companies instead.

It costs around 180 bucks to build an iphone or ipad.. Maybe 250 if it was made in the US.

Did this not lead to 'brain drain'?  Heck, why push education in highly technical fields when only a few designers are needed.  No domestic demand.. The Chinese and Koreans are smart and what the heck, everyone needs a burger flipped at home.  The smart jobs were sent overseas leaving minimum wage back home.  Now even if someone wants to build a product in the US there aren't enough highly skilled engineers and programmers available.

Now what's really quirky is that if you take a look at each of these countries, you will find all the things you so vehemently despise...  like socialized healthcare, even communism for heaven's sake....  and guess who is paying for it all?  You do, every time you go shopping.

So instead of good healthcare for US citizens, you give it away to folks overseas.

Just think about it a bit.

 BC-
 
 The global market today is not anything like it was in the 70s-80s.
 
 Apple sold 100 million iPhones worldwide, so that $70 difference in the price is not insignificant. You are better arguing the margin of the final purchase price of these items vs cost, which is far larger than the $70 bucks. $350/unit at 100 million sold is where the beef is. Outsourcing this item isn't where the problem is because if you take stock at how many people benefit from companies like Apple i.e. retail store, delivery UPS, chain, phone companies, long-shoring, Port employees, US-owned Freightliners, Customs, underground utility companies, etc...it's easy to see how Apple have an expotential effect in this country's economy yet so very easy to overlook. Wipe Apple out of the market and you'll have affected millions of jobs in the US.
 
 As for intellectual property, we gave Japan/SK et al technologies post-WWII to steam roll their respective economies and all it really created was a competitive market. Cars, videos, appliances, TVs, etc...That's not where the problem is either. Toyota, Honda, VW, et al have their factories in the US, employing US workers albeit none of them belong to the Union. US Taxpayers had to lose billions of dollars bailing out the Union, yet in the same period ~ those foreign companies employing US employees in their US-based factories were turning a profit.
 
 60 minutes did a report recently about the 'potential' technological thievery the current outsourcing market is doing to our country. I don't buy that either. China can buy a dozen iPhones and take it apart and determine it's nuts and bolts just as easily as taking a blueprint from Apple and manufacture it. Besides, if that is worrisome, then they ought to take stock of what makes up the student bodies at every top universities in this country. That's where they need to lay their concerns, if they feel so warranted.
 
 California boasts one the biggest economies in the world, much less the country. Yet, despite insane taxation, despite revenues from all the economic-based markets, tourism, entertainment, technology, etc...it has the worst economy of the 50 states. We have state income tax, we have state sales tax, we have sin taxes galore, property tax, tax, tax tax and it is freaking 'broke'. Most every city, most every county offices. Why? Because what they take in is far outweighed by what they put out. How so you asked? Our statewide social programs. California boast the most number of illegal aliens in this country along with having to support the highest number of socially-dependent citizens in the land.
 
 Here's another tidbit for you. Migrant workers flood our southern borders every single day in the tens of thousands everyday.
 
 Davis-Bacon, Prevailing wages, Union rates in California (in my industry) is roughly as follows: Field superintendent $90/hr, Grade Checkers $87.00/hr, Equipment operators $87/hr, Unskilled labor $55/hr. Now given the 'option' to hire Chinese at China's wage rate, assuming their workmanship is up to par and all things being equal ~ any sensible business person won't have to think twice on what needs to do.
 
 This whole thing isn't that simple, but at the same time, it really isn't that complicated either.
 
 As for socialized healthcare. it isn't that I *despise* it. It was implemented on the pretense it was what Americans wanted and needed DESPITE the great majority of Americans felt otherwise. It was politically crammed down our collective throats.

Additionally, do not for a minute assume China is providing socialized healthcare to it's entire population because of the business it generate from the US. Maybe to 20% of it's entire population, yes, but not anywhere near beyond that.
 
 It used to be this country's motto was *United we Stand, Divided we Fall*. No longer. Divided We Stand, United we Fall..

[Anotherkiwi]

This quote kiwi just confirms that you don't know as much as you think you know 

Please enlighten me - which part of my earlier post is incorrect?
 

Obama should have to stand on his record. Of course he didn't on his first time around while you and the rest of the world were wetting your panties and fawning all over him. Hopefully, it'll be different this time. I am no Romney supporter but, he will get my vote of the lesser of two evils. If there was ever a government that needed a raiding, it's this one.

I had never heard of Obama until he basically appeared from nowhere to leave Hillary Clinton in his dust.  Please explain how anyone could "stand on his record" the first time round (in any sort of election)?  If they haven't been there already, it would seem somewhat difficult.  Or are you simply referring to what they have done elsewhere, like robber baron Romney?
 

This quote just shows that you are in denial. I wouldn't waste the time to google your leaders because they are irrelevant. They don't matter thus I have no need to know.

Typical response from the "ugly American" - the USA is all that matters, so why should I care about any other country?  Oh gosh Mary-Jane, you mean there is more than one country in the world?  Sheesh...we get a month or so of rational, reasoned ("normal") responses from you, then something sets off your inner demons again.  Just maybe, if you saw other parts of the world in real life (not including visiting your in-laws), instead of ignoring what's further away than your letterbox, you might understand why so many people outside the USA are so happy not to be American!
 
Like I've said before, I really appreciate the contributions you make here...most of the time!

[Daveman]

Two things that really suck about the USA....

[Faux Pas]

Please enlighten me - which part of my earlier post is incorrect?

Most all of it, except for maybe the part that you don't live in the USA of which I have no first hand knowledge. First of all, I am not a republican. I understand you'd love to rathole me into your generalizations of Americans. Sorry that doesn't work out for you. Second, you have no idea what I think of Obama, please don't think you do or attempt to think for me 
 

I had never heard of Obama until he basically appeared from nowhere to leave Hillary Clinton in his dust.  Please explain how anyone could "stand on his record" the first time round (in any sort of election)?  If they haven't been there already, it would seem somewhat difficult.  Or are you simply referring to what they have done elsewhere, like robber baron Romney?

Exactly. He had no record except for a year and a half of being a freshman Senator and a career of a Chicago community organizer. THAT was his record. He had as much experience of running a world power country as I do. I wouldn't vote for me either. Robber baron....LOL. Are you against making money kiwi? Is profit forbidden in your utopia? Really, stop sounding like a hack if you wish to be taken seriously.
 

Typical response from the "ugly American" - the USA is all that matters, so why should I care about any other country?  Oh gosh Mary-Jane, you mean there is more than one country in the world?  Sheesh...we get a month or so of rational, reasoned ("normal") responses from you, then something sets off your inner demons again.  Just maybe, if you saw other parts of the world in real life (not including visiting your in-laws), instead of ignoring what's further away than your letterbox, you might understand why so many people outside the USA are so happy not to be American!
 
Like I've said before, I really appreciate the contributions you make here...most of the time!

Enough of the name calling already. Were your feelings hurt that badly? Name calling is the first sign of defeat in a logical, reasonable debate and a sign that you are not capable. You couldn't begin to comprehend my inner demons, none of which are associated with politics or political debate and you are no internet psychologist. Don't go there. I will however venture to guess  my world travels exceed yours, exponentially.

You feel inadequate because your country is insignificant on the world stage. I get that. It's okay, everybody can't be first. It has no bearing on your personal inadequacies. Those are all yours. I am not angry and have no bone to pick with you or anyone else. However, when I see those, especially a foreigner with no dog in the hunt, intend to crown who you think should be president of the US well, I feel compelled to inject. Never mind from a knowitall with bad information. Deal with it or not. It's your problem, your choice

[GQBlues]

Crazy! Now even the Vatican is putting their 2 cents in in this silly election, LOL.

http://www.youtube.com/watch_popup?v=D9vQt6IXXaM&hd

I caught a joke by Jimmy Kimmel not too long ago...he said, "There's a term even for a president like Barrack Obama, and let's hope to God nothing changes that!"

[tfcrew]

All you Republicans Texans have made it very clear that you think Obama Rick  Perry has about the same level of trustworthiness as the proverbial rattlesnake - 

As stated earlier, Obama is not a leader...he wants to be a celebrity.
Santorum said that Romney would be the worst repubican to run against Obama and then endorses him the next day.

[Gator]

 

Have I ruffled a few feathers?

Nope.  I find it inane to attack a candidate for his record when the incumbent essentially had no record prior to taking office.  I stand corrected.  The incumbent has been in office for 3 1/2 years.  He now has a record.  The result:   more debt, fewer jobs and lower home prices than in 2008.  Other results:  class warfare; his signature initiative Obamacare will soon be thrown out by the Supreme Court, etc. 
 

Was actually looking forward to hearing about Romney's many business achievements that would be transferrable and add substance to his somewhat awkward campaign for the presidency.

His accomplishments are many, yet one word says it all, turnaround.  America needs a turnaround.  That was Romney's forte.  In turning around a company, please note that Romney endeavored to work with the existing management of acquired companies.  Romney's approach differs from many leveraged buyouts that are more akin to hostile takeovers.  Please read about it if you intend to vote.

Other aspects of Romney's record.  While Governor of Massachusetts, he eliminated a projected deficit.   And he took over a financially troubled Winter Olympics and guided it to a success. 

Obama somehow created the mess before being elected?

I did not say that.  I said "It would be impossible to debate with someone who believes Obama's party had nothing to do with the Great Recession...."   

To refresh your mind long removed from the American scene, the crisis started a long time ago when Democrats (Obama's Party) thought it important that low income people should own a home, creating the concept of subprime mortgages as a vehicle to accomplish this.   After that initiative there was enough blame for everyone to share, Republican and Democrats.
 

Sorry I just dont get it... and I think that's also the problem many will have come election day.

Many will indeed line up to vote for the cow whose teat they have been sucking all their lives, not caring that the cow is weak and growing weaker.

[Faux Pas]

As stated earlier, Obama is not a leader...he wants to be a celebrity.
Santorum said that Romney would be the worst repubican to run against Obama and then endorses him the next day.

IMHO, Santorum was right and it wasn't in his endorsement. The whole Bain Capital thing is going to be a drag on Romney. Even though he is the most liberal candidate the republicans offered. I didn't think there was a more liberal republican than GWB but, I am afraid I was wrong

[Gylden]

Vote for whoever will repeal the Gramm-Leach-Bliley act and pass a new Glass-Steagal act. and get our banking system under control again.
 
 

[BC]

 
Nope.  I find it inane to attack a candidate for his record when the incumbent essentially had no record prior to taking office.  I stand corrected.  The incumbent has been in office for 3 1/2 years.  He now has a record.  The result:   more debt, fewer jobs and lower home prices than in 2008.  Other results:  class warfare; his signature initiative Obamacare will soon be thrown out by the Supreme Court, etc. 
 
His accomplishments are many, yet one word says it all, turnaround.  America needs a turnaround.  That was Romney's forte.  In turning around a company, please note that Romney endeavored to work with the existing management of acquired companies.  Romney's approach differs from many leveraged buyouts that are more akin to hostile takeovers.  Please read about it if you intend to vote.

Other aspects of Romney's record.  While Governor of Massachusetts, he eliminated a projected deficit.   And he took over a financially troubled Winter Olympics and guided it to a success. 
 
I did not say that.  I said "It would be impossible to debate with someone who believes Obama's party had nothing to do with the Great Recession...."   

To refresh your mind long removed from the American scene, the crisis started a long time ago when Democrats (Obama's Party) thought it important that low income people should own a home, creating the concept of subprime mortgages as a vehicle to accomplish this.   After that initiative there was enough blame for everyone to share, Republican and Democrats.
 
Many will indeed line up to vote for the cow whose teat they have been sucking all their lives, not caring that the cow is weak and growing weaker.

Gator,

Of course a lot of salt is thrown around in elections.  Obama did overstep with halving the deficit in his first term and closing Guantanamo.  Yes he has a record now but all in all, more of a disaster it is not.  One war wound down and another soon.  Some form of healthcare reform, I would have hoped for more but as you state it's all a compromise and that counts even within one party.  The economy recession has been over for a while now so don't know why so many pundits keep mentioning it.  Yes more work to be done for sure but that is one promise that was not made - to fix the economy in one term.

As for Romney's accomplishments, did a bit of research and his record in his home state is a bit fuzzy, levies on businesses and increased license fees, a 2002 carryover capital gains tax he had nothing to do with that filled a huge hole, internet sales tax, gas tax, shifting some financial burdens from state to towns and allowing them to raise property taxes instead of him.  His health care program is notable,  I liked the provision that defines 'affordable insurance'.  He did though have a hard time with the state legislature - most of his veto's were overturned   Yes he can say it was a 'turnaround' but it included some creative accounting / shifting and increased taxes.  His vetoes did seem to align with current campaign policy, so much so that their purpose might well have been just 'for the record' as his sights were aimed a the presidency with MA as a stepping stone.

I did misread your comment about 'Obama's party' but I don't believe that lax lending practices was the goal.  The banking business saw an opportunity, took it then gambled.  I doubt what happened was planned by either party but instead some politicians likely gained.

As to Bain's accomplishments I find very little.. do feel free to point me to some of their positive achievements aside from ending up on the better end of the stick financially.

Yes, the governments teat is being sucked dry, big business has had their fill for a while now so maybe it's time that the rest get a sip or two.