What is an MOB'er?

[Misha]

whether they are willing to marry and commit themselves to someone who is not necessarily looking for love, first and foremost.

My answer when still single and looking would have been no.

[Boethius]

Many sham marriages involve Lithuanian women to foreign non-EU nationals precisely because they can facilitate the obtention of a EU Passport 


http://www.baltictimes.com/news/articles/32457/

Poland had the same issue a few years ago, but the grooms tended to be third worlders from Africa and Asia.  Often, the women were duped and dumped once the paperwork was completed (or at least, claimed to be).

[Muzh]

I'm not sure I fit any of the specific criteria on GQ's list yet I consider myself a MoB'r.  How couldn't I be?  Despite never having been to Russia, or Ukraine, etc., I met my wife after a couple of weeks on EM.  She came to the states on a visa 2 months later and after spending 6 months together here we got married.


I think this is just semantics....GQ is a pretty brilliant guy even if he can be disagreeable occasionally.  If someone had knowledge of this foreign wife process, if even loosely, and they have pursued it - you're a MoB'r.  The details, the content, doesn't really matter.


For me, I knew a guy who had been to the Ukraine and during a low point I signed onto EM - never in my wildest dreams did I think or plan I would go to Russia (not willing to share why, it just wasn't an option) to meet a woman - it was solely mental masturbation and quite frankly, pretty selfish of me to waste peoples time - but, like a good dog, I responded to positive reinforcement and stuck around until I corresponded with my now wife and suddenly it all changed and it all became very real for me.  I'm a MoB'r whether I like the label (I don't) or not.


Off Topic - if my posts lately seem screwy or even incoherent, my apologies, I blame my IPad.   I'm finding it difficult to use with the site and have about given up on fixing grammar etc - not sure why it acts so weird here.

Salty, I think you are missing one adjective: typical.

My interpretation of GQs list is that, among others, your typical MOBr cannot find a date home because they are feminazi bitches, are all fat, a stunning woman would NOT consider a 20+ age difference with a so-so guy, money talks, want a 'traditional' woman (whatever that means), etc.

An atypical MOBr is a guy who has no problems with women from his neighborhood, er......., I guess that sums it up.

Between you and me, I see a lot of inadequacies in this MOB business. It boils down to many guys who have the resources to spend on finding and importing a woman from an economically disadvantaged country who barely speaks the language making her very vulnerable to his whims, as in he is in total control. Tell me if that is a sign or not of a man having problems with women. (I've seen too many for my own comfort.)

I certainly do not feel I belong to a group like that. You and I have talked previously and I know you don't fall in that category. Neither Ade. Nor BC. Nor a few others.


If we want to make this technical, my wife was the one who had to pay for her letters, not me. She called me "her boyfriend" when she talked to her parents for the first time. I can go on and on.

I believe GQ was talking about human decency.

[Muzh]

...or use the sink, it's already there at no additional expense .

LMFAO

You, my friend, are a very resourceful man. 

[Misha]

Poland had the same issue a few years ago, but the grooms tended to be third worlders from Africa and Asia.  Often, the women were duped and dumped once the paperwork was completed (or at least, claimed to be).

Hardly different for the women from the Baltics. There have been many cases of women being paid, then going to Ireland to marry men, quite often from Pakistan or other locales, in order for the men to get their EU paperwork. The sums they received were not that large based on news reports I read in Estonia: a few thousand Euros at most...

[Muzh]

 I just never have considered it any real big deal to go to any given city for a date if someone caught my attention.. things can be truly random and it could have just as easily been the german woman i met prior in Frankfort..or a woman from madision..

Oh boy, what you have reminded me of from years back.

When I was in college I dated a girl in Miami. I lived in San Juan so I would travel to Miami on Friday and a back home on either Sunday or Monday. This went on for about 3 or 4 months when on one trip to Miami I met this hot babe at the airport and she was from NYC. So, I called my dad and he called the airline and, presto, my pass was changed to LGA.

It was bye bye to the Miami babe but the weekend with the New Yorker was worth it.

Yow, that was buried deep in my memory banks.

[cc3]

Gave up an ongoing relationship with a multi-millionaire AW, who is a half-marathoner, competitive tennis player (my favorite sport) and good cyclist/triathlete, to become engaged to a penniless, non-athletic but darling UW. The AW is 90#, 5'1"...so no obesity issues. Why? My UW has pure, caring, loving, delightful, engaging, charming, devoted SOUL...mostly absent in my AW former significant other.

Am I a desperate MOB'er who can't score in the US? (My AW wants to reengage in relationship even though she knows that I am  now in Ukraine with my fiancee ).

[SANDRO43]

Have you tried sawtooth palmetto - a traditional "herbal" medication, even used by Native Americans centuries ago for a variety of ailments? Helps me, plus it is inexpensive without the usual concerns for side effects from synthesized meds.

I tried it, too, but the problem with it, as well as other medications, is that at best they may prevent further adenomatous growth, but NOT cause it to regress. Therefore, surgery is, alas, the only effective solution .

[Boethius]

Between you and me, I see a lot of inadequacies in this MOB business. It boils down to many guys who have the resources to spend on finding and importing a woman from an economically disadvantaged country who barely speaks the language making her very vulnerable to his whims, as in he is in total control. Tell me if that is a sign or not of a man having problems with women. (I've seen too many for my own comfort.)

In light of some of the active recent discussion, I needed to read this again.

[jone]

For the sake of discussion,

My original exposure to the MOB industry was two fold.  First, an old classmate imported a woman from Mexico, married her and cranked out two children.  He got tired of her and left her after six or seven years and and is now remarried to an AW who, he claims, is the love of his life.

My second exposure, many years later, was to a colleague who claimed that he had just married the most beautiful woman whom he had imported from Russia.  I found him to be a geek and a social reject.  So it came to me that the MOB game was for losers who couldn't be depended on in marriage and certainly could not find wife material here in the States.

Incidentally, this guy's wife left him exactly after four years and now lives up North.  Obviously she found out that he was a social reject as well.

Fast forward a couple of years and my travels for business in Russia are now a yearly sojourn.  The life I lead demands that I consider a foreign born wife.  Am invited to Ukraine to meet with many of the Gvmt officials and meet a beautiful TERP who takes care of me while I am there. 

So here I am.  Now at a precipice - dangerous to my former life.   I am now considering marriage.  The life I contemplate is far different than that which I would have scripted for myself.  But this life is much fuller and complete than anything I would have contemplated.

Does this make me an MOBer?  Absolutely.  Did I go through many of the same problems that other MOBers did?  Of course.  To one degree or another.  The real difference, in reading this thread, is that almost unanimously, on this forum, I find people who have given this type of FSUW / WM relationship some thought.   Most of them have contemplated what it will really take to make things work. 

A couple of months ago we had a gal on here who was substantially younger than the man she married.  She went through all of the things he did to make her comfortable in her new home.  Somehow, I  think most of the users of this forum will provide similar support to a foreign wife.  That is why we are here.  To make these relationships work. 

So, for those of you jaded by years of watching people fail in MOB type relationships, I can honestly say that none of us here are typical MOBers.  We are all exceptional for seeking the knowledge to make such a relationship work. 

[CanadaMan]

In light of some of the active recent discussion, I needed to read this again.

I think what you really meant to say was "I wanted others to read this again".   

[CanadaMan]

...So, for those of you jaded by years of watching people fail in MOB type relationships, I can honestly say that none of us here are typical MOBers.  We are all exceptional for seeking the knowledge to make such a relationship work.

Don't worry Jone, there's no need to explain yourself. 

There's plenty more room here on RWD for 'atypical' MOB'ers. 

Of course there's bound to be objections from the 'genuine' atypical MOB'ers, but that's to be expected. 

[Boethius]

I think what you really meant to say was "I wanted others to read this again".   

No, I thought it would be better to just think it and lurk, so that the forum goes back to a dozen or fewer posts daily.

[Boethius]

For the sake of discussion,

My original exposure to the MOB industry was two fold.  First, an old classmate imported a woman from Mexico, married her and cranked out two children.  He got tired of her and left her after six or seven years and and is now remarried to an AW who, he claims, is the love of his life.

My second exposure, many years later, was to a colleague who claimed that he had just married the most beautiful woman whom he had imported from Russia.  I found him to be a geek and a social reject.  So it came to me that the MOB game was for losers who couldn't be depended on in marriage and certainly could not find wife material here in the States.

Incidentally, this guy's wife left him exactly after four years and now lives up North.  Obviously she found out that he was a social reject as well.

Fast forward a couple of years and my travels for business in Russia are now a yearly sojourn.  The life I lead demands that I consider a foreign born wife.  Am invited to Ukraine to meet with many of the Gvmt officials and meet a beautiful TERP who takes care of me while I am there. 

So here I am.  Now at a precipice - dangerous to my former life.   I am now considering marriage.  The life I contemplate is far different than that which I would have scripted for myself.  But this life is much fuller and complete than anything I would have contemplated.

Does this make me an MOBer?  Absolutely.  Did I go through many of the same problems that other MOBers did?  Of course.  To one degree or another.  The real difference, in reading this thread, is that almost unanimously, on this forum, I find people who have given this type of FSUW / WM relationship some thought.   Most of them have contemplated what it will really take to make things work. 

A couple of months ago we had a gal on here who was substantially younger than the man she married.  She went through all of the things he did to make her comfortable in her new home.  Somehow, I  think most of the users of this forum will provide similar support to a foreign wife.  That is why we are here.  To make these relationships work. 

So, for those of you jaded by years of watching people fail in MOB type relationships, I can honestly say that none of us here are typical MOBers.  We are all exceptional for seeking the knowledge to make such a relationship work.

It is more likely those women were not suited to those men.  I don't like the word "losers", as every person has some redeeming qualit(y)(ies).
 
I disagree with your perspective that everyone here is "exceptional".  Every person has some "exceptional" quality, even if it is not recognized by all.  I do think the forum provides information.  So, we will have to agree to disagree.

Personally, I don't find the FSU "fascinating".  I find the history fascinating, but life there is a grind.  Funny, because I was relating lonedrake's experience to my husband.  The story was a typical one for him, in observation.  He said it's boring for him, but he could understand how those for whom it is something different and "new" would be interested in it, just as he enjoys Westerners for their openness and kindness, while we just take that for granted.
 

[jone]

It is more likely those women were not suited to those men.  I don't like the word "losers", as every person has some redeeming qualit(y)(ies).
 
I disagree with your perspective that everyone here is "exceptional".  Every person has some "exceptional" quality, even if it is not recognized by all.  I do think the forum provides information.  So, we will have to agree to disagree.

Personally, I don't find the FSU "fascinating".  I find the history fascinating, but life there is a grind.  Funny, because I was relating lonedrake's experience to my husband.  The story was a typical one for him, in observation.  He said it's boring for him, but he could understand how those for whom it is something different and "new" would be interested in it, just as he enjoys Westerners for their openness and kindness, while we just take that for granted.

I used the term 'Losers' to emphasize that there is a group who represents those worst qualities of MOB seekers.  And, yes, we will have to agree to disagree.  Because while they have redeeming qualities of other sorts, their handling of bringing a wife to a western country made them to be less than honorable and less than appropriate.

Am writing this winging over Canada on my way home from Ukraine.    If you were quoting me using the word 'fascinating', that is not a word I would use for it.  Could you please point me to where I would use such a word?   The people of the FSU are known to me, but I would never study them as an insect or a hobby.  Instead, the word I would use in dealing with the FSU is "perseverance".   It is not a place that is immediately friendly to strangers.  It is, instead, guarded and withdrawn, opening, like an oyster, only occasionally to share a pearl.  As the oyster yields unwillingly, so does the FSU.

That is not to say that those FSU people in hospitality industries are not friendly.  They are.  But, still, on the streets, there is no casual greeting, no acknowledgement unless known.  Westerners still confuse the bulk of people I have met outside of the sophisticated capitals of UA and Russia (I consider SPB a federal or capital city).    When I work in Russia, I am accepted as a 'Businessman' and therefore have a role there.  That is not the case in UA.  So this last trip I worked very hard at being known to people.  But, try as I might, I did not achieve much.  Sure the lady in my favorite coffee hangout knows who I am and greets me pleasantly each day.  The people at my girlfriend's place of work all know me - as do some of her friends and her family.  But most simply don't want to be bothered by meeting someone new. 

I do not share trip reports.  There is much to contemplate over the next few days.  It is difficult to express oneself when there are major decisions forthcoming. 

But I will easily say that much of what I have learned on this site, mostly from fellow travelers and from those who have married an FSU woman, has been invaluable to me.  The thoughts above are real.  The contrast could not be more evident.  There are those that blindly walk into relationships and allow them to happen.  And there are those who weigh the consequences and seek outside counsel.  Such a wise approach makes these MOB seekers exceptional. 

[CanadaMan]

No, I thought it would be better to just think it and lurk, so that the forum goes back to a dozen or fewer posts daily.

You have a comeback for everything don't you BO?    You wanted others to read Muzh’s quote again.
It's nothing to be embarrassed about.
 
 
 

[Boethius]

Of course.   ::but I wasn't embarrassed.::

[Boethius]

  If you were quoting me using the word 'fascinating', that is not a word I would use for it.  Could you please point me to where I would use such a word? 

I was not quoting you.

The people of the FSU are known to me, but I would never study them as an insect or a hobby.  Instead, the word I would use in dealing with the FSU is "perseverance".   It is not a place that is immediately friendly to strangers.  It is, instead, guarded and withdrawn, opening, like an oyster, only occasionally to share a pearl.  As the oyster yields unwillingly, so does the FSU.

Romantic but not, in my experience, realistic.  But then, I probably deal with different types of FSU individuals than most here.  The majority of people I deal with have extremely rare encounters with foreigners and are working class.  Most of them struggle daily.  Many are currently unemployed or underemployed.  Some have worked (illegally) in the West.  Lots of people there will smile to your face, be warm and kind, all while playing an angle on you.  I don't view it as a negative, or cynically, it is what it is, and I understand it and the reasons for it.  So, I'm never offended.

[cc3]

As a frequent visitor, but not the continual daily interactor that Boethius is, I still agree with jone's picturesque analogy. The people I have interacted with, as my fiancee's partner, have been what we in the west might call "the working poor", but they are all university graduates, some with postgraduate degrees. They are highly intelligent and grossly underpaid/underemployed, victims of the reigning klepto-oligarchy currently dominating Ukraine and its economy.  Being "guarded and withdrawn" is a self-defense and survival mechanism probably originally adopted in Soviet times and continued during the 20 years of independent kleptocracy. Can you blame them?

[Muzh]

Personally, I don't find the FSU "fascinating".  I find the history fascinating, but life there is a grind.

Hey Canada Man. My turn to quote her. 

[Muzh]

As a frequent visitor, but not the continual daily interactor that Boethius is, I still agree with jone's picturesque analogy.

That's because you are still a tourist.

The people I have interacted with, as my fiancee's partner, have been what we in the west might call "the working poor", but they are all university graduates, some with postgraduate degrees. They are highly intelligent and grossly underpaid/underemployed, victims of the reigning klepto-oligarchy currently dominating Ukraine and its economy.  Being "guarded and withdrawn" is a self-defense and survival mechanism probably originally adopted in Soviet times and continued during the 20 years of independent kleptocracy. Can you blame them?

Now that's the real life, the daily grind.

Trust me, the moment you have to survive the same way they do, you will not find it that picturesque.

 

[Boethius]

Most of the people I interact with are not university graduates.  However, I would point out that many, many "university degrees" in Ukraine are not worth the paper they are printed on, and furthermore, many individuals who claim to be university educated are not.  There have been "scandals" in several Ukrainian cities where, on investigation, it was learned many professionals did not have degrees at all.  In L'viv, in one such investigation, 80% of the degrees had been printed off the internet.  There is currently a trial of a "surgeon" who claimed to have a medical degree from Moscow.  All his patients had died on the table.  He is on trial and still denying, despite facts presented by the prosecution, that he has no medical degree.  In fact, he has no degree from any university or technical college.


The mentality, which goes all the way back to the Bolshevik Revolution, is very different from Western mentality.

[Boethius]

That's because you are still a tourist.

Now that's the real life, the daily grind.

Trust me, the moment you have to survive the same way they do, you will not find it that picturesque.

+1000.  Or face the humiliations they do on a daily basis.


It's even little things.   We took my MIL to the deli here, so she could choose some cheeses she'd enjoy.   When she was offered several samples, she remarked at how "civilized" it was here, the clerks didn't treat you as an animal, throwing stuff at you.


My better half disagrees that Ukrainians are the victims of their government.  He has always said to them, "які люди, таке і життя" which is very roughly translated to "you get the life you deserve".

[LiveFromUkraine]

I lived in Ukraine for over a year, it is a grind and a half. 

[Muzh]

Most of the people I interact with are not university graduates.  However, I would point out that many, many "university degrees" in Ukraine are not worth the paper they are printed on, and furthermore, many individuals who claim to be university educated are not. 

You are not talking about the 'Dear Proffesor', the President of Ukraine, are you?