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Author Topic: The Russian/Syrian connection thread  (Read 253482 times)

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Offline fathertime

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Re: The Russian/Syrian connection thread
« Reply #125 on: October 04, 2015, 10:18:39 AM »
Why are you so anti-American when we have done so little in Syria, yet indifferent to Russia entering the conflict and destroying rebel groups seeking a free Syria?  Do you really not understand Putin's long-term motives and the implications for the West.   


You are disingenuously downplaying the role of the US, and the West in Syria.  Go ahead in explain all the motives and implications for the West, if you think you know all.



So you are now in the camp that it is better for world stability if brutal dictators are allowed to stay in power, regardless of the domestic human suffering.  You are not alone.



You are in the camp of us intervening in internal conflicts.



I OTOH understand and support the noble goal Obama had to back opposition groups intent on replacing dictators with democracies.  The only problem is this is very messy in the Middle East with some bad possible outcomes,  and Obama has so far failed in its implementation, as would most who have attempted  this with restraint.  News for you:  Putin and Assad will advance with no restraints.


Noble...haha....I don't believe we are being noble.



If Russia goes all in, the opposition groups will be diminished to small pockets of guerillas within a couple of years.  Do we let them collapse totally, or do we support them like Charlie Wilson supported the mujahedeen in Afghanistan. 



We involved ourselves in this internal conflict, so Russia is supporting the current leadership.  No big surprises. If enter, we shouldn't act surprised when other nations do too.



Statements like this show the depth of your ignorance.  The US has conducted no sorties against Assad.   Please show me accounts of where we have attacked Assad's forces.
The depth of your ignorance is astounding.  You are mistaken if you don't think we have created an environment whereby Assad is somewhat incapacitated.    What exactly do you think our purpose is, if not that?   :rolleyes:



 
Ha Ha.  You can not be serious. If true,  explain Afghanistan and Iraq. 
Well over 1 million native population dead in those countries....I'm sure people are aware if they go up against aircraft/drones they can not see..they have a good chance of being dead.....and I'm sure that has discouraged some people who would otherwise fight...to think otherwise is ridiculous.


Fathertime!   



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Offline mendeleyev

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Re: The Russian/Syrian connection thread
« Reply #126 on: October 04, 2015, 11:30:42 AM »
As I just wrote in the peacekeeping thread, I believe that Obama gave Putin a pass on Ukraine in exchange for Russia joining the coalition against ISIS. However, Putin has always been far more astute that Obama, and he will take Ukraine eventually if the green light was indeed flashed, but he will implement his own agenda, not Obama's, in Syria and the Middle East.

History will not be kind to one of the most incompetent and useless USA presidents ever to be elected.
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Offline Boethius

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Re: The Russian/Syrian connection thread
« Reply #127 on: October 04, 2015, 11:38:14 AM »
Difficult to say.  If the majority Shia never share any power with the Sunni, then the same would have happened.  I was always in the camp of dividing Iraq into three countries.  The major problem is the Sunni have little oil in their territory and the Shia would have allied with Iran (which they seem to be doing anyway).


The Shia allied with Iran long before Obama was elected.


The post Hussein governing structure was poorly thought out by the Americans.  As was the naive notion that "bringing" democracy would solve all the country's problems.


Quote
At least a permanent US base would have stopped the ISIS invasion from Syria.


ISIS originates in Iraq, and its membership is still predominantly Iraqi. 


Quote
I have read such accounts.  Educated Sunni would never support ISIS control of their region, nor would a majority vote for it if it were a choice vs. a democracy.


Yet the leaders are all educated Iraqis. 


My own view is that the leadership cares little about religion, other than using it as a recruiting tool and a means to stay in power.
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Offline Boethius

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Re: The Russian/Syrian connection thread
« Reply #128 on: October 04, 2015, 12:07:02 PM »
As I just wrote in the peacekeeping thread, I believe that Obama gave Putin a pass on Ukraine in exchange for Russia joining the coalition against ISIS. However, Putin has always been far more astute that Obama, and he will take Ukraine eventually if the green light was indeed flashed, but he will implement his own agenda, not Obama's, in Syria and the Middle East.

History will not be kind to one of the most incompetent and useless USA presidents ever to be elected.


I think that will depend on whether Obama's successor reverts to US policy in the past, which lead to 9/11, or to a new course.


Another take on Syria -

Quote
“Syria is an exercise in narrative escalation dominance,” Pomeranzev says. “It’s setting the agenda, making the U.S. look weak and putting Putin center stage—whether good or bad is irrelevant because for the Kremlin any publicity is good publicity. The exact, on-the-ground aims can be interchangeable. ‘Terrorists’ in Syria are just as vague as the ‘fascists’ in Ukraine, and it doesn't really matter whether it's true, as long as the story keeps moving and the U.S. is kept off-balance, distracted and dismayed.”
[/size]
[/size]
[/size]http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2015/10/04/russia-s-propaganda-blitzkrieg.html

After the fall of communism, the biggest mistake Boris Yeltsin's regime made was not to disband the KGB altogether. Instead it changed its name to the FSB and, to many observers, morphed into a gangster organisation, eventually headed by master criminal Vladimir Putin. - Gerard Batten

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The Russian/Syrian connection thread
« Reply #129 on: October 04, 2015, 12:48:28 PM »

I think that will depend on whether Obama's successor reverts to US policy in the past, which lead to 9/11, or to a new course.


I think that Obama will be seen as an incompetent and naive in foreign policy regardless
of his successor. Some of his ineptitude has and will continue to be covered up because
he was the first Black president and Nobel Prize winner, but there were too many obvious
mistakes that can't be glossed over.

Policies that led to 9-11? You've gotta be kidding me. That's a totally bogus argument
with no merit. Radical Islam is incompatible with anything other than radical Islam of
the exact same flavor. The West is always going to be in their target path as long as we
aren't their exact flavor of Muslim with Sharia law. 

FSUW are not for entry level daters
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Re: The Russian/Syrian connection thread
« Reply #130 on: October 04, 2015, 12:55:29 PM »
You don't have to believe me.  Just reads the words of Osama bin Laden.


Centuries ago, a Tsar was embroiled in a war with a Muslim country the Russians were attempting to conquer.  He met with the Muslim emir, and asked what the Russians could do to stop the bloodshed.  He was given three conditions:


1.  Don't take our land.
2.  Don't our women.
3.  Don't touch our horses.


The Tsar laughed, and agreed to the three conditions.  Result?  No bloodshed for over a century with the Muslims of the region, who were happily part of the Russian Empire.


The West will not be a target if the West is not embroiled in the affairs of people of the Middle East. 
After the fall of communism, the biggest mistake Boris Yeltsin's regime made was not to disband the KGB altogether. Instead it changed its name to the FSB and, to many observers, morphed into a gangster organisation, eventually headed by master criminal Vladimir Putin. - Gerard Batten

Online 2tallbill

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Re: The Russian/Syrian connection thread
« Reply #131 on: October 04, 2015, 01:52:30 PM »
You don't have to believe me.   

I don't

You don't have to believe me.  Just reads the words of Osama bin Laden.


Centuries ago, a Tsar was embroiled in a war with a Muslim country the Russians were attempting to conquer.  He met with the Muslim emir, and asked what the Russians could do to stop the bloodshed.  He was given three conditions:


1.  Don't take our land.
2.  Don't our women.
3.  Don't touch our horses.


The Tsar laughed, and agreed to the three conditions.  Result?  No bloodshed for over a century with the Muslims of the region, who were happily part of the Russian Empire.


The West will not be a target if the West is not embroiled in the affairs of people of the Middle East.

News Flash, there are radical Muslims in the West. They don't want to live under our laws. 
They want the entire West to live under Sharia Law.

"I support any Muslims, whether here or abroad."
Osama bin Laden

"We love death. The U.S. loves life. That is the difference between us two."
Osama bin Laden

If they love death, I say we help them.

Centuries ago, a Tsar was embroiled in a war with a Muslim country the Russians were attempting to conquer. 

Who is it that frequently tells me not to refer to ancient history from 50 years ago?


« Last Edit: October 04, 2015, 01:55:40 PM by 2tallbill »
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Offline Boethius

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Re: The Russian/Syrian connection thread
« Reply #132 on: October 04, 2015, 01:55:06 PM »
Yes, they live in the West.  But their grievances are related to Western domination of their lands.


Quote
Who is it that frequently tells me not to refer to ancient history from 50 years ago?


I don't know.  Who?


Your perspective, I believe, is rather limited by your American centric thinking.


How many Muslims do you know personally?  How many do you interact with daily?
After the fall of communism, the biggest mistake Boris Yeltsin's regime made was not to disband the KGB altogether. Instead it changed its name to the FSB and, to many observers, morphed into a gangster organisation, eventually headed by master criminal Vladimir Putin. - Gerard Batten

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Re: The Russian/Syrian connection thread
« Reply #133 on: October 04, 2015, 02:15:25 PM »
Yes, they live in the West.  But their grievances are related to Western domination of their lands.

The Muslim riots in France weren't because of some domination of their land.


Here are some Muslims in Belgium


Sweden?


You're perspective is limited by your liberal thinking, don't worry you aren't alone.
Western Europe thought as you thought but have been proven wrong repeatedly.

I don't know.  Who?

You

How many Muslims do you know personally?  How many do you interact with daily?

I lived in the San Francisco Bay Area for 20 years. My experience with Muslims far
exceeds yours. I've done extensive business with them, I've coached their kids in
basketball, I've lived next to them. I've gone skiing with them. I've gone on holidays
with Muslim friends, I've been to weddings, I've been to their bachelor parties. You are
barking up the wrong tree.

FSUW are not for entry level daters
FSUW don't do vague
FSUW like a man of action. Be a man of action 
If you find a promising girl, get your butt on a plane.
There are a hundred ways to be successful and a thousand ways to f#ck it up
Just kiss the girl, don't ask her first. Tolerate NO excuses!

Offline Belvis

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Re: The Russian/Syrian connection thread
« Reply #134 on: October 04, 2015, 02:48:49 PM »
Trend in western media in last days: Russian aircraft   carried out a bombing attack against Syrian opposition fighters on Wednesday, including at least one group trained by the C.I.A. The attack was not directed at the Islamic State but at other opposition groups fighting against the government of the Syrian president.

A new joke is circulating in russian social networks. Western reporter conducts an interview with an official  from the Russian Ministry of Defence.
- How do you distinguish between radical Islamists and the moderate Syrian opposition?
- We are using only moderate bombs against moderate terrorists, and radical bombs against Islamists.
- Explain me please, how your moderate bombs differ from the radical ones?
- The difference is exactly as much as the moderate terrorists  are different from he radical terrorists.  They are painted with other colors in lighter and more moderate tones.



BTW, Abu Sakkar, the man who has introduced cannibalism into the Syrian civil war in 2013, was from so called opposition groups associated with FSA.

Offline fathertime

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Re: The Russian/Syrian connection thread
« Reply #135 on: October 04, 2015, 02:53:48 PM »


The West will not be a target if the West is not embroiled in the affairs of people of the Middle East.
True I don't see most Muslims as inherently any different than anyone else..., but we have now meddled SO much that it will take our lifetime and more to change perceptions...and we are still going in the wrong direction. 


Fathertime! 
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Offline Gator

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Re: The Russian/Syrian connection thread
« Reply #136 on: October 04, 2015, 03:45:38 PM »

You are disingenuously downplaying the role of the US, and the West in Syria.  Go ahead in explain all the motives and implications for the West, if you think you know all.

Simple.  All the motives and implications of the Ukrainian initiatives plus we can now add 1) Middle Eastern oil (an issue more significant to Europe than to us) and 2) confirmation that the US is all talk and will eventually abandon its allies.   

Frankly, if Russia eliminated  ISIS it would be worth it.  I say that because  we are strong enough to counter Putin if he later became a nuisance. 


Quote
Noble...haha....I don't believe we are being noble.

The goal of replacing a tyrant with democracy is noble.  You do realize Assad is committing war crimes.  It will be a long time before it happens, and that long time will be filled with bloodshed.  Even if Assad were overthrown, something equally as bad could prevail, which makes me too not want US involvement in Syria.  See, I agree with you about the key issue of what should the US do. 


Quote
We involved ourselves in this internal conflict, so Russia is supporting the current leadership.  No big surprises. If enter, we shouldn't act surprised when other nations do too.

Our entry was insignificant, mainly words.  State facts please if you believe otherwise.  Russia would have entered regardless as soon as Assad started losing to the opposition forces.  The Soviets entered Afghanistan in essentially the same manner (to prop up a dictator friend who was losing an internal conflict).   

You do read where Assad and Putin refer to  the rebels we supported as "terrorists" and thereby placing them in the same category as ISIS. 

Quote
The depth of your ignorance is astounding.  You are mistaken if you don't think we have created an environment whereby Assad is somewhat incapacitated.    What exactly do you think our purpose is, if not that?   :rolleyes:

I see you now have retreated from  your statement  "we have carried out 1000's of sorties" to "we have created an environment whereby Assad is somewhat incapacitated."    This is typical of you:  1) you do not consider facts and 2) instead of deductive reasoning you express your  emotional feelings as the truth.   You have the mentality of several stubborn RW I met.  Is that why you post at RWD even though your wife is not RW?

Quote
Well over 1 million native population dead in those countries....I'm sure people are aware if they go up against aircraft/drones they can not see..they have a good chance of being dead.....and I'm sure that has discouraged some people who would otherwise fight...to think otherwise is ridiculous.

To the contrary, our aircraft/drone attacks against ISIL seem to have changed little other than to help  ISIS recruitment. 
« Last Edit: October 04, 2015, 03:48:41 PM by Gator »

Offline Gator

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Re: The Russian/Syrian connection thread
« Reply #137 on: October 04, 2015, 04:25:49 PM »

The Shia allied with Iran long before Obama was elected.

We agree but it is not as straightforward as you express and the word "allied" is too strong.  Influenced, yes.  Allied, no.

Iran and Iraq fought a bloody war started by Iraq after the  ouster of the Shah in Carter's administration. The border between Iran and Iraq had long been disputed, somewhat similar to the conflict in Ukraine.  Plus Saddam feared Iran would  export the Iranian Revolution to Iraqi Shia.     I am sure the US encouraged Iraq. 

Many, many Shia Iraqi soldiers died fighting Iranians in WW I type tactics.  It ended as a stalemate.

The Shia had long been suppressed by Saddam.  Thus, when Saddam fell, the Iranians saw a vacuum.    Yet, keep in mind Iranians are not Arabs, and do not speak Arabic.  IMO the Iraqi Shia will never consider Iranians as blood brothers. 


Quote
ISIS originates in Iraq, and its membership is still predominantly Iraqi. 
   

True but the takeover of Iraqi territory came from the north and advanced quickly as Sunni laid down their arms and refused to fight.



Quote
Yet the leaders are all educated Iraqis.

My mistake.  I should have said Iraqi middle class. 


Quote
My own view is that the leadership cares little about religion, other than using it as a recruiting tool and a means to stay in power.

Mostly agree.  I believe the leaders are  religious  but not the zealots their extremist movement  suggests.  As such the leaders would perform the rituals. 

Offline fathertime

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Re: The Russian/Syrian connection thread
« Reply #138 on: October 04, 2015, 04:31:47 PM »
   

I see you now have retreated from  your statement  "we have carried out 1000's of sorties" to "we have created an environment whereby Assad is somewhat incapacitated."    This is typical of you:  1) you do not consider facts and 2) instead of deductive reasoning you express your  emotional feelings as the truth.   
 


No, no, no.  We HAVE carried out 1000's of sorties AND we have created an environment where Assad is somewhat incapacitated.  These statements are NOT mutually exclusive and you have no reason to make that leap.  We (the US leadership) want Assad out, and I believe the thrust of the 1000's of sorties is to indirectly achieve that end without being TOO obvious/blatant. 


   This is typical of you:  1) you do not consider facts and 2) instead of deductive reasoning you express your  emotional feelings as the truth.   You have the mentality of several stubborn RW I met.  Is that why you post at RWD even though your wife is not RW?


I don't care about the 'stubborn RW' you have met, but considering what you consider stubborn, I have serious doubts that it was the ladies that were stubborn.    As far as I'm considered YOU are not considering all the facts, and choose, downplay, or twist, the facts that support the position you have taken...which as far as I can tell, is that the USA is being a good Samaritan and selflessly helping Syrian 'freedom fighters'.  I just don't believe that narrative, or anything close to it.   




The goal of replacing a tyrant with democracy is noble.  You do realize Assad is committing war crimes. 
To the contrary, our aircraft/drone attacks against ISIL seem to have changed little other than to help  ISIS recruitment.


 

First you are assuming that we aren't ok with ISIS recruitment rising, as long as they are doing what we want them to do.  I wouldn't make that assumption myself.
Second, I wouldn't blame a mainstream citizen of Syria, or another attacked Middle Eastern country being irate over their fellow country members being helplessly bombed, without any chance of doing anything about it.  Imagine if a greater power did that to us in New York, or Los Angeles, we would have a segment of the population spitting mad, mad enough to strap a bomb to their chest and do whatever they could to make 'the greater power' pay.    We need to exit Syria, and stop trying to meddle/exploit...which is what this is all about in the end. 


Assad has had a tough nation to keep a lid on, we on the other hand have no business meddling, arming, and fomenting. 


Fathertime!   
« Last Edit: October 04, 2015, 04:49:13 PM by fathertime »
I just happened to be browsing about the internet....

Offline Gator

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Re: The Russian/Syrian connection thread
« Reply #139 on: October 04, 2015, 05:05:08 PM »

No, no, no.  We HAVE carried out 1000's of sorties AND we have created an environment where Assad is somewhat incapacitated.  These statements are NOT mutually exclusive and you have no reason to make that leap.  We (the US leadership) want Assad out, and I believe the thrust of the 1000's of sorties is to indirectly achieve that end without being TOO obvious/blatant. 

I tried to help you see the error of your thinking.  My last and final attempt, made as simple as "one, two, three."

1.  The FIRST US  air  missions in Syria (jets, missiles and drones)  started one year ago.     

2.  In Syria, the US has  bombed only ISIS and the Khorasan Group (al Qaeda).

3.  In other words, the US had flown  ZERO missions against Assad (and yet you say "1000s")

Here is the irony:   the US  THREATENED to bomb Assad, but never did.  Instead we bombed one of Assad's ENEMIES, namely ISIS.  Indirectly, we are helping Assad. 

Thus your statement about "incapacitating Assad" is 100% wrong.  You being wrong is not news  because I recall 6 months ago that you were frequently wrong but never in doubt.   

I did  not read the remainder of your dribble because  I deem you HOPELESS.  I wager I  said  this before but forgot.

Offline fathertime

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Re: The Russian/Syrian connection thread
« Reply #140 on: October 04, 2015, 05:35:48 PM »
I tried to help you see the error of your thinking.  My last and final attempt, made as simple as "one, two, three."

1.  The FIRST US  air  missions in Syria (jets, missiles and drones)  started one year ago.     

2.  In Syria, the US has  bombed only ISIS and the Khorasan Group (al Qaeda).

3.  In other words, the US had flown  ZERO missions against Assad (and yet you say "1000s")

Here is the irony:   the US  THREATENED to bomb Assad, but never did.  Instead we bombed one of Assad's ENEMIES, namely ISIS.  Indirectly, we are helping Assad.   
You can believe this, but I don't.  If leadership wants Assad out, we are not bombing his enemies.  We are probably bombing his supporters and labeling them ISIS, while letting his detractors fly under a different label and destroy as much as they can.   



I did  not read the remainder of your dribble because  I deem you HOPELESS.  I wager I  said  this before but forgot.





It doesn't matter if you feel I'm hopeless, it is probably that exact holier than thou attitude that the US has when dealing with when nations don't buy into exactly what we say either...and it isn't flying as well nowadays.  I don't believe we are in Syria to 'save' anybody...we are there for our own purposes, and that doesn't necessarily align with what is best for the Syrian people....but that hasn't been deemed important.   


Fathertime!   



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Re: The Russian/Syrian connection thread
« Reply #141 on: October 04, 2015, 05:57:29 PM »

I think that will depend on whether Obama's successor reverts to US policy in the past, which lead to 9/11, or to a new course.


You are now reaching.  OBL was a terrorist.   OBL was critical of the US for various reasons:

1.  Our secular government; he advocated Sharia Law. 

2.  Our  support of Israel;  he called for the destruction of Israel. 

3.  Our stationing of any military in Muslim countries, ignoring the fact we were asked  by OBL's home country to  build up forces in Saudi Arabia to free Kuwait from Saddam. 

He had other radical views such as  anti-Semitism, considering Shia Muslims  heretics, the necessity of jihad, etc.

So which of these does the US need to address with a new policy? 
 

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The Russian/Syrian connection thread
« Reply #142 on: October 04, 2015, 06:18:57 PM »
I have not stated repeatedly that you shouldn't look to history 50 years ago.

You have, I found two fairly quickly, I don't have time to find more.

Let's look at today, not a half century ago.

I don't think what happened a century ago is relevant in this context. 




You don't know my experiences with Muslims.

I didn't question your experience with them you questioned mine and you
were barking up the wrong tree.

It's not the moderates that are the problem, it's the radicals.
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Re: The Russian/Syrian connection thread
« Reply #143 on: October 04, 2015, 08:49:25 PM »
I OTOH understand and support the noble goal Obama had to back opposition groups intent on replacing dictators with democracies.  The only problem is this is very messy in the Middle East with some bad possible outcomes,  and Obama has so far failed in its implementation, as would most who have attempted  this with restraint. 



Obama has failed. He spent 500 million in tax payer money to train opposition groups and Russia is now bombing them. It's a shame all those people had faith in America backing them up and when the going gets tough, Obama leaves them to fend for themselves.


  Putin and Assad will advance with no restraints.



Obama has announced today he will not get in a proxy war with Russia. Translation: Russia has the green light in Syria and Ukraine. You will never hear Putin say he's not going to get into a proxy war with America.


Putin is testing weapon systems and getting his troops experience in Syria and Ukraine. So they'll be better prepared for a larger war?
Fund the audits, spread the word and educate people, write your politicians and other elected officials. Stay active in the fight to save our country. Over 220 generals and admirals say we are in a fight for our survival like no other time since 1776.

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The Russian/Syrian connection thread
« Reply #144 on: October 05, 2015, 09:50:51 AM »
Putin 'sending 150,000 soldiers to Syria to WIPE OUT evil Islamic State'
By SCOTT CAMPBELL

The Russian leader is reportedly mounting an enormous military mission to take
control of the terror group's stronghold of Raqqa.

The city is the self-declared capital of ISIS in Syria and is patrolled by as many
as 5,000 jihadi members.

Putin is set to mobilise 150,000 reservists who he conscripted into the military
earlier this week.

An insider revealed: "It is very clear that Russia wants to sweep up the west of the country, taking Raqqa and all the oil and gas resources around Palmyra.

"This is fast becoming a race to Raqqa – to secure the oil fields they need to cleanse the region of insurgents, and the IS capital is vital to do that."

It comes a day after Russian jets obliterated nine ISIS outposts in just 24 hours using bunker-busting bombs.

read all about it here
http://www.express.co.uk/news/world/609757/Putin-ISIS-Islamic-State-Syria-Raqqa-troops-soldiers-air-strike-jets-military
« Last Edit: October 05, 2015, 09:52:36 AM by 2tallbill »
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The Russian/Syrian connection thread
« Reply #145 on: October 05, 2015, 10:23:27 AM »
Say what you will, but wisely in my opinion Russia doesn't try to figure out who is
in which faction and their rules of engagement are vastly simplified.

U.S. and Russia can’t agree on definition of terrorism
Moscow makes no distinctions among anti-Assad fighters on complex Syrian battlefield

That would be an easier discussion for the Russians, who began conducting
airstrikes Wednesday, than the Americans, who’ve been bombing Syria for
more than a year.

For Russian President Vladimir Putin and his generals, the definition of “terrorist,”
when it comes to the increasingly turbulent Syrian civil war, is simple: anyone
who uses violence to try to topple President Bashar Assad.

Assad is a dictator, but he’s Moscow’s dictator. Just as the late Iraqi strongman
Saddam Hussein was Washington’s dictator, for decades, before President
George W. Bush turned against him and launched an ill-fated March 2003
invasion whose consequences are still playing out more than a dozen years later
across the Middle East, from Syria and Iraq to Libya and Iran.

For President Barack Obama and his top military aides, it’s becoming more
complicated by the day to say just who is a terrorist in Syria.


There is a lot of really good stuff read all about it here: http://www.mcclatchydc.com/news/nation-world/national/article37411218.html#storylink=cpy
« Last Edit: October 05, 2015, 10:54:00 AM by 2tallbill »
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The Russian/Syrian connection thread
« Reply #146 on: October 05, 2015, 10:34:57 AM »
Vladimir Putin sees Barack Obama's coolness as weakness
Russia's bombing of American allies in Syria underlines how much more powerful
and provocative Putin is than he was before Obama took office
By Matt K Lewis


Russian warplanes began bombing American-backed Syrian opposition strongholds
on Wednesday, a move that can be viewed as the latest example of American humiliation abroad. As was the case when Russians invaded Ukraine, the Russians cloaked their
activity in lies.

In the former example, Russian soldiers didn't wear uniforms, a thinly-veiled move
meant to create the impression the fighters were merely Ukrainian "separatists."
Likewise, Wednesday's bombings ostensibly targeted Islamic State of Iraq and the
Levant (Isil); in fact, the strikes were aimed at moderate rebels and civilians –
part of a plan to take out any opposition to their client, Syrian dictator Bashar al-Assad.

This all comes on the heels of President Barack Obama's drawing of a "red line"
regarding the use of chemical weapons, only to back down when the Assad regime
– by most accounts – used them.

This past week, White House press secretary Josh Earnest strained credulity when he
said Mr Obama doesn't regret drawing that red line.

Weakness invites provocation, and – never one to miss an opportunity to outmaneuver
Mr Obama – Mr Putin provided a self-serving opportunity that would also allow the
president to save face: Moscow would push Syria to put their chemical weapons under international control.

It's also important to note that in the wake of the red line being trampled, Russia
invaded Crimea. President Obama's legacy may be mixed, but one thing is for sure:
Vladimir Putin is much more powerful and provocative than he was before Mr Obama
took office, and Russia has only expanded its sphere of influence.

The Syria bombings also come almost immediately after Mr Putin met with Mr Obama
at the UN where they agreed to "deconflict" military operations – a very Obama-esque
line that Mr Putin immediately crossed.

And prior to bombing our friends in Syria, the Russians also had the audacity to issue
a "démarche" for the US to clear air space over northern Syria. As if that weren't enough,
this came just as reports that the Russians attempted to hack Hillary Clinton's email server.

For those paying attention, Mr Obama's foreign policy world-view has failed.

The suggestion that America could leave a vacuum that wouldn't be filled by our
adversaries – the idea that the "international community" (whatever that means)
would respect us more if we were to retreat from the world – was always a farce.
At some level, high-stakes diplomacy is still a game of chicken – where machismo
matters.

Even domestically, there are still traces of this left in our more civilised politics.

In the vast majority of the world, power (or the perception of power) is what matters.
In America, President Obama's brand of metrosexual coolness works well.

He mocked Mitt Romney, for example, as a Neanderthal stuck in the 1980s for suggesting
in 2012 that Russia was still our main geopolitical foe.

Mr Obama's mix of cool insouciance and biting sarcasm plays much better with the
latte-sipping crowd than it does with former KGB operatives, where his style and
rhetoric suggests weakness, softness, and a lack of commitment and moral clarity.

Today, it looks like he's allowing Russia to push America around, and dictate the
terms of our being pushed around.

There is more read all about it here
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/barackobama/11910639/Vladimir-Putin-sees-Barack-Obamas-coolness-as-weakness-and-it-is-hurting-America.html
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The Russian/Syrian connection thread
« Reply #147 on: October 05, 2015, 10:59:18 AM »
Kremlin Says Russian ‘Volunteer’ Forces Will Fight in Syria
By ANDREW E. KRAMER, HELENE COOPER and CEYLAN YEGINSU

MOSCOW — Russia signaled deepening intervention Monday in the Syria war, strongly
hinting that its “volunteer” ground forces would soon be fighting there, as NATO officials
warned the Kremlin after a Russian warplane invaded Turkey’s airspace.

The unfolding developments reflected a dangerous new superpower entanglement in
the war, which has left a quarter-million dead and half the country’s population
displaced since it began more than four years ago.

The addition of Russia ground forces to the aerial assaults already underway by
Russian warplanes particularly threatens to undermine Turkey’s policy in Syria,
which aims for the establishment of a “safe zone” along the Turkish border where
some Syrian refugees could return in the future.

Russia and Iran have moved aggressively in the past few weeks to strengthen their
ally, President Bashar al-Assad of Syria, to fight a range of insurgents. The assistance
has raised the possibility of a new ground offensive by Mr. Assad’s forces against
groups of fighters including those backed by the United States, Turkey and their
allies, who want Mr. Assad to leave power.

There is a lot more read all about it here
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/10/06/world/europe/nato-russia-warplane-turkey.html?hp&action=click&pgtype=Homepage&module=first-column-region&region=top-news&WT.nav=top-news&_r=0
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The Russian/Syrian connection thread
« Reply #148 on: October 05, 2015, 11:02:51 AM »
Russia invading Turkish airspace no "accident": U.S. official
ANKARA, Turkey - A U.S. defense official dismissed Russia's claim that one
of its warplanes entered Turkish airspace "by mistake."


The incident comes amid Turkish concerns over Russian airstrikes in Syria that have
targeted some foreign-backed insurgents. Turkey - along with NATO ally the U.S. and
others -- have conflicting positions with Russia on the Syrian regime, with Russia
backing President Bashar Assad and Turkey insisting on his ouster.

"Obviously, along with quite a bit of Russia's behavior in Syria right now this just
confirms our deep concern over what they're doing and continues to call into question
their intent, and certainly raises questions about basic safe combat, professional
behavior in the skies," a senior U.S. defense official told CBS News. The official, who
was not authorized to publicly discuss sensitive military matters and spoke on condition
of anonymity, added: "I don't believe this was an accident."

There is more, see the video and photos and read all about it here
http://www.cbsnews.com/news/russia-invading-turkish-airspace-no-accident-us-official/
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The Russian/Syrian connection thread
« Reply #149 on: October 05, 2015, 11:05:15 AM »
Turkey Vows to Protect Borders After Russian Jet Incursion
By SUZAN FRASER, ASSOCIATED PRESS

Turkey's prime minister vowed Monday to take all necessary measures to protect the
nation's borders from violation after a Russian fighter jet entered its airspace over the
weekend, prompting Turkey to scramble jets and summon the Russian ambassador
in protest.

NATO said another Russian jet intruded into Turkey's airspace Sunday, and it called
urgent consultations on the issue. The alliance strongly protested the Russian violations
and noted "the extreme danger of such irresponsible behavior."

read all about it here
http://abcnews.go.com/International/wireStory/turkey-russian-warplane-violated-airspace-34250018
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