Returning to Russia after 17+ years.

[Strider]

So, I am waiting for my visa to return to Russia.  My last trip there was over 17 years ago.  I have noticed that the visa process is more involved than it was before.  They want to know every country that I have visited in the past 10 years.  That was hard to remember.  I had to go through my old passports to check.  With all of the tit-for-tat going on with the Russians, I am hoping that the visa isn't a problem.  What else has changed?

I have made many trips to Ukraine through the years.  I need to familiarize myself on the differences between Russians and Ukrainians, especially the women.  I can remember some things, but what might I have forgotten?

[LAman]

I would only include countries in current passport( stamps), nobody knows anything else.

If you are American, did you apply for 30 day or 3 year tourist visa. I know the costs for the 3 year doubled or tripled. It is now much cheaper for 30 day.

[Strider]

Well, travelling to the E.U. now they have the Schengen zone.   There aren't stamps crossing the borders now.  That makes it hard to remember, or prove where I was.  I did the best I could with it.  They do ask if the applicant has ever lost a passport, been issued a passport from another nation, or obtained a Russian visa by some kind of deceit.  If they want to bust balls, they might demand that I show up at the consulate with my old passports.  So, I was careful.

I am not going on a tourist visa.  (I don't believe I ever went to Russia on a tourist visa.)  Hopefully my sponsor and the visa processor have all the right connections and relationships to get the visa without problems.

[BillyB]

.  With all of the tit-for-tat going on with the Russians, I am hoping that the visa isn't a problem.  What else has changed?

Russia and America have told each other to significantly reduce personnel working in embassies and consulates in their own countries. Wait times are sure to increase.

[Strider]

So, one concern that I have is about the Russian law making it a crime " to spread intentionally false information about the Soviet Union’s activities during World War II."   See related discussion here:
http://www.ponarseurasia.org/sites/default/files/policy-memos-pdf/Pepm331_Kurilla_August2014_0.pdf
While on its face it claims to prohibit  the "Rehabilitation of Nazism”, the problem is that until June 22, 1941 when the Nazis attacked the backward Soviet Union, Stalin was Hitler's greatest ally, sending the Nazis grain and raw materials used in the WWII against Nazi Germany's enemies while Stalin grabbed as much territory as possible to expand the Soviet Union against the consent of local populations.  One fact that modern Russia still denies is the timing of Poland's government's flight to Romania.  In the West, it is a fact that it crossed the border only after learning of the Soviet invasion Sept. 17, 1939.  The Russians continue to claim that they invaded Poland only after the event.  I don't expect to discuss the matter while in Russia, as that is the wisest policy, but I am curious how this law is being applied in Russia.

[Jumper]

Unless you ate teaching history, how the government approaches that seems a mere curiosity?

I highly doubt it's something a random visitor, having a discussion with friends would draw any interest,much less the application of such law.
Steer clear of the topic if worried?

[msmob]

I've never hidden the fact that I'm not a 'fan' of the course that the leaders of Russia are taking their country - although I don't 'speak me mind' in Russia - I have an opinion.

As my partner is Russian the worst thing that could happen is that I'd not be allowed in for having an opinion contrary to govt. policy...


Censorship is forbidden in the constitution of the Russian Federation - but like any nation - they are sensitive on some aspects of history.  In your case, I'd certainly NOT be worrying.

 

[Strider]

So, I sent my visa application to Invisa Logistic Services LLC in NYC on Sept. 12th.  I got it back today a day early. Wahoooo!   

IMHO WWII is best understood as being about colonialism.  Britain and France were most interested in maintaining their colonial empires, and the independence of Central Europe and its population was sacrificed for that result.  The Soviets were permitted to oppress their neighbors in exchange for the return of colonialism in Asia.  None of that changes the fact that it was the Slavs who collectively made the greatest sacrifice in WWII, and for many that sacrifice continued after the war under communism.  I just hope it isn't illegal now to condemn Stalin.  He was a monster too. 

[BillyB]

That's good news you got your visa a day earlier than you expected. If you got anymore questions about going to Russia and women, do lots of reading here and/or ask questions.

[calmissile]

So, I sent my visa application to Invisa Logistic Services LLC in NYC on Sept. 12th.  I got it back today a day early. Wahoooo!   

IMHO WWII is best understood as being about colonialism.  Britain and France were most interested in maintaining their colonial empires, and the independence of Central Europe and its population was sacrificed for that result.  The Soviets were permitted to oppress their neighbors in exchange for the return of colonialism in Asia.  None of that changes the fact that it was the Slavs who collectively made the greatest sacrifice in WWII, and for many that sacrifice continued after the war under communism.  I just hope it isn't illegal now to condemn Stalin.  He was a monster too.

Congrats on your visa.   As far as Stalin,  I doubt you would find anyone here that disagrees with you. 

[msmob]

Congrats on your visa.

  As far as Stalin,  I doubt you would find anyone here that disagrees with you. 

Hopefully, but elsewhere ( esp. in Russia -  you may read/ see that 'Uncle Joe' is being resurrected as a 'strong man' and hero of the 'Great Patriotic War'  ( even to the point that renaming Volograd back to Stalingrad was discussed:puke:

[calmissile]

Have no idea what you are trying to convey. 

[Boethius]

There is a nostalgia for Stalin among some Russians. Ukrainians too.

[msmob]

Thank you, Boethius - for explaining to Calmissile - couldn't have put it better

[Strider]

That's good news you got your visa a day earlier than you expected. If you got anymore questions about going to Russia and women, do lots of reading here and/or ask questions.

I don't see much if anything about international dating in Russia.  Since it became much harder to get a visa under Putin, that is understandable.  Most of what is here is about Ukraine, where it is easiest to go, and a blurb about Belarus here or there.  From what I can see, marriage agencies have been replaced by online escort services in Russia.  Maybe that is a bit more honest about what these girls are all about, but not what I am seeking.  Anyhow, I will be there for a while, but not in the big cities like St. Pete or Moskow much.  The contrast in time and place should prove interesting.

[BillyB]

I don't see much if anything about international dating in Russia.  Since it became much harder to get a visa under Putin, that is understandable.  Most of what is here is about Ukraine, where it is easiest to go, and a blurb about Belarus here or there

Although the talk here has been mostly Ukraine related, Americans are marrying Russians more than Ukrainians. Don't know why the guys with Russian wives and girlfriends are speaking out more often.

From what I can see, marriage agencies have been replaced by online escort services in Russia.  Maybe that is a bit more honest about what these girls are all about, but not what I am seeking. 

Sandro has a thread called "Double Dealers" which talks about women listed at agencies and escort sites. A Foreign Affair marriage agency based in America is the custodial of records for a number of porn sites using Eastern European women. It's not hard to figure out the working girls from the family oriented girls.

[Anotherkiwi]

Anyhow, I will be there for a while, but not in the big cities like St. Pete or Moskow much.  The contrast in time and place should prove interesting.

Whatever else you may do, simply make sure that you enjoy your trip, whether that's through sightseeing, studying, or dating Miss Russia 1997 (or 2015!).

While I still think that St Petersburg is the most beautiful city in the world, and Moscow is pretty fabulous (in parts), some of the other cities I've visited there are awesome in their own way.  I agree with Moby that Sochi is wonderful, and I also loved Kazan, Krasnodar and Rostov-na-Donu (there are some of my photos in the Gallery here).  If you're looking for somewhere much smaller and quieter, try Elabuga (population 70,000), about 40 minutes by bus from Naberezhnye Chelny (200 km east of Kazan, and 1200 km east of Moscow).  It's the birthplace of painter Ivan Shishkin, where his home has been converted to a small museum, and the War Memorial Park is stunningly beautiful.

Chelny itself, on the other hand, is Soviet functionality only.  It began life in the 1930s, but exploded into life in the 1970s as the home of Kamaz trucks, which are produced in the largest vehicle factory in the world.  Population is about 500,000, many of whom work for Kamaz or its associated companies.  It does have a really beautiful cathedral (with gardens) and mosque (Tatarstan has a large Muslim population), but that's about it.

[Strider]

Although the talk here has been mostly Ukraine related, Americans are marrying Russians more than Ukrainians. Don't know why the guys with Russian wives and girlfriends are speaking out more often.

From my travels in Ukraine, that may go the heart of the Ukrainian identity.  IMHO, Ukraine and Belarus are best understood as where Catholic Poland transitions into Orthodox Russia.  Genetic studies indicate that Poles and Belarussians are the most closely related, which dates back to the time of the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth when Belarus was part of the Lithuanian Grand Duchy.  Ukraine, which was then the Eastern part of the modern state, was a badland of bandits and runaway serfs.  What is now Western Ukraine always had a reputation for a bucolic kind of lazy lifestyle. 

I was interested in discussing differences between Russian and Ukrainian ladies.  Ukrainian girls may want to study or work in the E.U., but don't seem to want to leave Ukraine permanently.  (I have met girls in Ukraine who have told me this.)  I suspect Russian girls are a bit more aggressive in wanting to improve their lot in life through marriage, and to leave Russia, while maintaining their cultural identity.  It may be because the Ukrainian identity is relatively new, (at one time it was noted that a "Ukrainian" was the result of the marriage of a Pole and a Russian), that women who have it are afraid of losing it to other cultures.   

Sandro has a thread called "Double Dealers" which talks about women listed at agencies and escort sites. A Foreign Affair marriage agency based in America is the custodial of records for a number of porn sites using Eastern European women. It's not hard to figure out the working girls from the family oriented girls.

I'll have a look at that sometime soon.  It isn't at all surprising.  Back when I first took an agency tour, the business model was readily apparent.  They used foreign men and free drinks as the bait to get the girls pictures and contact info.  If they were attractive, I don't think many were turned away.  Porn sites would be one way to make more money and maximize profit for the agency.  Who cares about the foreign men as long as they keep paying for something?

Whatever else you may do, simply make sure that you enjoy your trip, whether that's through sightseeing, studying, or dating Miss Russia 1997 (or 2015!).

I have always enjoyed my time in Russia.  I expect to be there until Western Christmas.  I just don't know how much sightseeing I will be able to do due to government travel restrictions, or want to do, when the weather gets cold.  I am curious to see if the Russian KFC has a mustard sauce.  In Ukraine, they only had BBQ.

[Boethius]

Your "theories" of history are absolutely historically inaccurate.

[Trenchcoat]

Strider, FSW can sometimes feel like you're using an escort service I find, not that I have ever used one but it's what it kind of feels like sometime. Basically you date girl & pay for this, that & the other. If there's no chemistry on meeting then it can very much end up a 'reciprocal arrangement' by default of sharing time with one another unless you chose to give girl the heave ho. Personally though I no longer see the girl wanting to stay in her home country as a problem. If she's too eager to go to your home country it may not be for you but for herself with you acting as a mule for her to do so. Little mileage in a relationship if that is the case as once you've served your part you'll be kicked to the curb without thought nor care.

[msmob]

Strider, FSW can sometimes feel like you're using an escort service I find, not that I have ever used one but it's what it kind of feels like sometime. Basically you date girl & pay for this, that & the other. If there's no chemistry on meeting then it can very much end up a 'reciprocal arrangement' by default of sharing time with one another unless you chose to give girl the heave ho. Personally though I no longer see the girl wanting to stay in her home country as a problem. If she's too eager to go to your home country it may not be for you but for herself with you acting as a mule for her to do so. Little mileage in a relationship if that is the case as once you've served your part you'll be kicked to the curb without thought nor care.

Ah, once again the 'experienced' - in long-term relationships with FSU W - Trenchcoat - offers his 'opinion' - that most lasses are just using you .....

You've had plenty of examples that this isn't the case - including from me - but you seem to think this is the 'exception' .

Wake up and smell the coffee.  Bringing someone to the UK / US etc., WILL mean she relies on you ...   I rely on help from SC  and friends - even though I can get by in Russian ..   

[Hammer2722]

Strider, FSW can sometimes feel like you're using an escort service I find, not that I have ever used one but it's what it kind of feels like sometime. Basically you date girl & pay for this, that & the other. If there's no chemistry on meeting then it can very much end up a 'reciprocal arrangement' by default of sharing time with one another unless you chose to give girl the heave ho. Personally though I no longer see the girl wanting to stay in her home country as a problem. If she's too eager to go to your home country it may not be for you but for herself with you acting as a mule for her to do so. Little mileage in a relationship if that is the case as once you've served your part you'll be kicked to the curb without thought nor care.

LOL, Clueless. Totally clueless.........

[ML]

From my travels in Ukraine, that may go the heart of the Ukrainian identity.  IMHO, Ukraine and Belarus are best understood as where Catholic Poland transitions into Orthodox Russia.  Genetic studies indicate that Poles and Belarussians are the most closely related, which dates back to the time of the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth when Belarus was part of the Lithuanian Grand Duchy.  Ukraine, which was then the Eastern part of the modern state, was a badland of bandits and runaway serfs.  What is now Western Ukraine always had a reputation for a bucolic kind of lazy lifestyle. 

I was interested in discussing differences between Russian and Ukrainian ladies.  Ukrainian girls may want to study or work in the E.U., but don't seem to want to leave Ukraine permanently.  (I have met girls in Ukraine who have told me this.)  I suspect Russian girls are a bit more aggressive in wanting to improve their lot in life through marriage, and to leave Russia, while maintaining their cultural identity.  It may be because the Ukrainian identity is relatively new, (at one time it was noted that a "Ukrainian" was the result of the marriage of a Pole and a Russian), that women who have it are afraid of losing it to other cultures.   

This is some of the silliest stuff I have ever read here.

[BillyB]

I met a guy who once went on a marriage agency tour in the 90's. He stayed two weeks and the agency supplied a new girl to live with him every few days. She cooked, cleaned and lived with and if they got along, there could be marriage. He said each girl slept with him and he knew these girls were rotated to other men on the tour. He suspected the girls were hookers looking to get married but he wasn't complaining. He felt the experience was worth the price he paid although he didn't end up getting married to any of those women.

[ML]

He stayed two weeks and the agency supplied a new girl to live with him every few days. She cooked, cleaned and lived with and if they got along, there could be marriage. He said each girl slept with him and he knew these girls were rotated to other men on the tour.  He felt the experience was worth the price he paid although he didn't end up getting married to any of those women.

Perhaps a business like this could be started in USA.
The rotating idea sounds interesting.
How often could the man rotate?

[Jumper]

Strider, 
The kiev rus dynasty started when and how?

Ukrainian identity is founded quite well,  despite all the history of war and changes there thru the ages.

Culturally as a general population  there is very little difference between a UW or rw.

You'd found some disparity in a village girl from Western ukraine to a moscovitchka,  but not much if comparing apples to apples.
Provincial city or larger to same, or village to village.

As far as willingness to contemplate  relocation, my opinion is it is very individual and likely based on mostly lack of stability and dim future prospects for self and children.


With the unrest in ukraine, I'd say as a generality they might be more inclined as the future is less certain and the economy as well.

That said it woukd still be so specific to any given individuals circumstances that no generality can be worth much.

[Strider]

Your "theories" of history are absolutely historically inaccurate.

Take it up with Kate Brown.  She is a history professor, and the author of A Biography of No Place: From Ethnic Borderland to Soviet Heartland (Harvard 2004).  That won the American Historical Association’s George Louis Beer Prize for the Best Book in International European History.  She does explain how people on the Russian side in what is now Western Ukraine never thought of themselves as "Ukrainian" before WWI, because they hadn't thought they lived in Ukraine, which was further to the East on the steppe.  Everything she wrote was well documented in the archives and pre-WWI Russian historians.  Of course, its not the history you want to believe.

Strider, FSW can sometimes feel like you're using an escort service I find, not that I have ever used one but it's what it kind of feels like sometime. Basically you date girl & pay for this, that & the other. If there's no chemistry on meeting then it can very much end up a 'reciprocal arrangement' by default of sharing time with one another unless you chose to give girl the heave ho. Personally though I no longer see the girl wanting to stay in her home country as a problem. If she's too eager to go to your home country it may not be for you but for herself with you acting as a mule for her to do so. Little mileage in a relationship if that is the case as once you've served your part you'll be kicked to the curb without thought nor care.

Well they don't try to get you locked up for ridiculous complaints like in the West.  If you get tired of paying for things in a relationship without any chemistry, then just say good-bye.  Otherwise, I hope you got your money's worth. 

[Strider]

Strider, 
The kiev rus dynasty started when and how?

A long, long, long time before Western Ruthenians considered that they to lived in the ukraine.

Culturally as a general population  there is very little difference between a UW or rw.
You'd found some disparity in a village girl from Western ukraine to a moscovitchka,  but not much if comparing apples to apples.
Provincial city or larger to same, or village to village.

Catholics in Western Ukraine appear to be more conservative than the Orthodox in the East, where they are more culturally Russian.  Perhaps it's because they have the Polish dupa?

As far as willingness to contemplate  relocation, my opinion is it is very individual and likely based on mostly lack of stability and dim future prospects for self and children.

Yes, having a child opens their eyes to greener pastures to the West for the child.  It seems that few consider that it would be better to move to the West before having children.

With the unrest in ukraine, I'd say as a generality they might be more inclined as the future is less certain and the

That said it woukd still be so specific to any given individuals circumstances that no generality can be worth much.

There is always unrest in Ukraine.  Things don't really change in that regard.  Still, few really want to leave permanently. 

[Jumper]

Strider, FSW can sometimes feel like you're using an escort service I find, not that I have ever used one but it's what it kind of feels like sometime. Basically you date girl & pay for this, that & the other. If there's no chemistry on meeting then it can very much end up a 'reciprocal arrangement' by default of sharing time with one another unless you chose to give girl the heave ho. Personally though I no longer see the girl wanting to stay in her home country as a problem. If she's too eager to go to your home country it may not be for you but for herself with you acting as a mule for her to do so. Little mileage in a relationship if that is the case as once you've served your part you'll be kicked to the curb without thought nor care.

Lol , TC come on now! 


You really need to get out just dating normally man.

Yes there are *some* women open to pro dating, or an *arrangement * with a powerful local business man
,or even prostitution.
That's true in the UK as well don't you rekon?
In a fine western country.


But those women don't define the general population of either country. Just like MOB misfits like *us*, don't define western men's populations.

You seem to have chased a couple of young model types mostly from agency backgrounds and you'll find more than average concentration of a tad mercenary.
Why on earth would you expect anything different?

If you chased the young women enamored of men with fame or wealth at very high end clubs in uk, you might find a tad higher concentration of mercenary girls than is representative of uk lasses as well.


If you somehow met ten , 30 something average RW from normal backgrounds, none of what you think ,post,or have experienced would fit. zero, nothing.
Dating would certainly not feel like using an escort service. Dear Lord. Lol

Your experiences, are poor  because of how you are thinking and how you are  looking , and who you decided to meet from a criteria that assures a poor outcome most of the time.

You already know that most hot local young 20 -25 yo women here,there,or anywhere,  are into , mostly themselves. There isn't enough life experience or maturity to be otherwise yet (generality,yes exceptions exist  )

Yet that's whom you seemingly  choose to meet right?


Again I'm throwing pebbles not stones from my glass house . I met my wife when she was 28.
I thought I had a good idea of her values and what was important to her, but you just don't really know until you meet and spend time together.
  Turns out I was right, but you know what?
I could have been way off,about her, or she could have found me too goofy, or whatever lol
In any case it wouldn't have made her a bad person, or me one either, we just wouldn't have been compatible.
I knew the odds were quite up there that I had read her  wrong. But that's on ME, not her.
It's on you to sort out who you meet, and after meeting who you keep dating.
I've always felt any person , is only treated as poorly as they allow themselves to be.

[Boethius]

Take it up with Kate Brown.  She is a history professor, and the author of A Biography of No Place: From Ethnic Borderland to Soviet Heartland (Harvard 2004).  That won the American Historical Association’s George Louis Beer Prize for the Best Book in International European History.  She does explain how people on the Russian side in what is now Western Ukraine never thought of themselves as "Ukrainian" before WWI, because they hadn't thought they lived in Ukraine, which was further to the East on the steppe.  Everything she wrote was well documented in the archives and pre-WWI Russian historians.  Of course, its not the history you want to believe.

Kate Brown is not posting here.  However, other historians, such as John-Paul Himka (an expert on 19th century Galicia) would disagree with that conclusion.

Has Kate Brown never heard of the Ruska Triytsia?  The narodovtsi?  Franko? Kotsiubynsky?  Hnatiuk?  Holovatsky?  Pavlyk?  Really, the notion you present is absurd.

[Boethius]

A long, long, long time before Western Ruthenians considered that they to lived in the ukraine.

Where do you think the Ruthenians came from?  Do you believe they fell from heaven?

Catholics in Western Ukraine appear to be more conservative than the Orthodox in the East, where they are more culturally Russian.  Perhaps it's because they have the Polish dupa?

They're not more conservative, but they are more sexually repressed.  However, you will find few real "Orthodox" or "Catholics" in either country, as they were rather successfully eliminated by the former Bolshevik regime.

[Strider]

Kate Brown is not posting here.  However, other historians, such as John-Paul Himka (an expert on 19th century Galicia) would disagree with that conclusion.

Are you sure about that?  Since Brown was writing mostly about the Russian side of the WWI border, Himka's work on Hapsburg Galicia is largely irrelevant except to prove that the expansion of the ukraine Westward to Galicia was a Hapsburg invention to divide and conquer the local population.

Has Kate Brown never heard of the Ruska Triytsia?  The narodovtsi?  Franko? Kotsiubynsky?  Hnatiuk?  Holovatsky?  Pavlyk?  Really, the notion you present is absurd.

You will need to ask her, but the history that she presented matches what I know from my own family, i.e., people who intermarried, spoke a mixed dialect of language (the tutajesz), and didn't fit into the categories that outsiders, (including modern Ukrainian nationalists and their academic proponents) had for them.  I am sure that she heard of Vasyl Mudry, his  Ukrainian National Democratic Alliance party, his Dilo newspaper, and how he and many of his supporters remained loyal to Poland.  As historians like Snyder have noted, they found Poland to have been superior to what followed under Soviet occupation, and they were nostalgic about it.

Where do you think the Ruthenians came from?  Do you believe they fell from heaven?

Ruthenians came from Ruthenia, which was west of the ukraine.

They're not more conservative, but they are more sexually repressed.  However, you will find few real "Orthodox" or "Catholics" in either country, as they were rather successfully eliminated by the former Bolshevik regime.

Funny, but there are more churches in both countries now than before the fall of the Soviet Union.  Generally, people who are more conservative are less sexually active, especially if that abstention is due to religion, or a more religious culture.

[msmob]

Funny, but there are more churches in both countries now than before the fall of the Soviet Union.  Generally, people who are more conservative are less sexually active, especially if that abstention is due to religion, or a more religious culture.

As religion was frowned upon - it is a natural progression that religion - allowed freedom - would recover...   

Your second sentence - I think that is a very sweeping statement - hard to prove either way

[ML]

Strider wrote:  Generally, people who are more conservative are less sexually active, especially if that abstention is due to religion, or a more religious culture.

Your second sentence - I think that is a very sweeping statement - hard to prove either way

I think Strider is correct here, when conservative is used in this  sense and not in the political sense.

Generally religious women feel the pressure to be less active sexually, especially outside of marriage.  After all, this is part of most religious dogma.

I encountered a few very religious FSUW and they all emphatically relayed to me in pre-meeting messages that they would not be partaking in sex during our meetings.  I believed them and did not pursue that aspect, even as I met with them to test out compatibility in other regards.  Nothing came of these meetings as they just were not affectionate enough for me, even aside from no sex.  One in particular would be quite a catch otherwise; she has since married, had a child, and still corresponds with me a couple of times a year at Christmas, etc.

I remember when I was a teenager back in medium town midwest, there was a Catholic high school and the word was that those gals were the most promiscuous around.  But it could have just been an urban legend and I knew no one with reliable stories about such.

[msmob]

Generally religious women feel the pressure to be less active sexually, especially outside of marriage.  After all, this is part of most religious dogma.

'Sex' as in penetrative sex ? ...

I remember when I was a teenager back in medium town midwest, there was a Catholic high school and the word was that those gals were the most promiscuous around.  But it could have just been an urban legend and I knew no one with reliable stories about such.

A bit like the Vicar's daughter ( in the UK we had Fiona Richmond) I still think it was a generalised statement - can't prove it ..

http://www.fionarichmond.co.uk/about/

 

[BillyB]

 A few guys at work say conservative religious girls enjoy sex the most based off their experiences. Religious women tend to have more kids and are more motivated to keep their man happy. Liberal women are less interested in keeping their man happy. A good number feel they don't even need a man in their life.

[GQBlues]

...Funny, but there are more churches in both countries now than before the fall of the Soviet Union.  Generally, people who are more conservative are less sexually active, especially if that abstention is due to religion, or a more religious culture.

I submit Mormons and Muslims contend to the contrary.

[ML]

I submit Mormons and Muslims contend to the contrary.

I doubt that above average number of children equates with above average amount of sex.

Rather, it just indicates lack of birth control and mostly by design.

[Strider]

I think Strider is correct here, when conservative is used in this  sense and not in the political sense.

Generally religious women feel the pressure to be less active sexually, especially outside of marriage.  After all, this is part of most religious dogma.

Right, the concept is that the human sex drive should be channeled into marriage.

I encountered a few very religious FSUW and they all emphatically relayed to me in pre-meeting messages that they would not be partaking in sex during our meetings.  I believed them and did not pursue that aspect, even as I met with them to test out compatibility in other regards.  Nothing came of these meetings as they just were not affectionate enough for me, even aside from no sex.  One in particular would be quite a catch otherwise; she has since married, had a child, and still corresponds with me a couple of times a year at Christmas, etc.
...

Well some girls do that to make guys think they are religious or have high standards.  That might be true, but it also works as a great way to play a guy without being affectionate.  I have heard that there is an old Orthodox thing that a woman shouldn't even kiss a man she isn't marrying.  Something like finding the one person she is destined for.  For international dating, it's a non-starter.

I submit Mormons and Muslims contend to the contrary.

Mormons and Muslims are abstaining from sex?  Who knew?