Are women currently wanting to make an exodus from Ukraine?

[Trenchcoat]

Recently been coming across more women that seem to be stressing that they 'really want to locate', 'change life', 'think of future', etc one even state she didn't think she would return to her city anymore! (after finding new guy abroad) but in stead would prefer to invite family over. Ok they state, family, finding soulmate, maybe even children along with it, but the wanting to get the hell out of Ukraine to another country seems to be the priority from want I sense in their letters. Even last year when I was looking I didn't really get the impression from many girls that there was a dying urgency to leave Ukraine and start a new life abroad as a dying urgency. Only the second girl I met did I get the impression a bit that she was looking to get out of the Ukraine to continue her studies of Sociology - an thoroughly interesting but ultimately useless subject making your economic worth an an economy virtually zero. When I told her higher education in the UK is not free anymore this may have also made her decide to take flight.

My thoughts are that I'm wondering if the continued conflict in the East of Ukraine and continued stagnation of the economy is really starting to take its toll on these women and they are looking to get out of what they see as increasingly bleak and uncomfortable economic situation and lifestyle. My thoughts have always been that the Russians could come storming through at any moment and living under this threat is probably not lost on them. Just wondered what others thoughts on this are. Is it possible to have a loving relationship with one of these girls even if she puts moving to new country as a top priority at first, i.e if real chemistry arises (not faked)?

[Bee Farmer]

Where is the Ukraine?  It ceased being the Ukraine in 1991.

I believe a high percentage of Ukrainians would like to emigrate to another country where the economy was better.  (Why do you think they want the Schengen visa?)  It's not limited to single girls.

I'm not saying the girls are just looking for a mule, but a girl may be willing to give you a better chance at winning her heart if you can help her improve her financial standing. (And help her family too.)

Is it possible to win her heart?  Yes.  It's possible she is just looking for a mule also.  With risk comes reward.  You won't get the reward if you are afraid of the risk.

[wallm]

Weird. I see more girls saying "no foreigners" on mamba. In Kiev at least people in general seem happy. I am not looking at the left bank of course. But my observation is based on what I see walking around people watching in the center. The ladies I met did not say to me they want to get out of dodge. One asked me if I would move to Ukraine. Laughter ensued....

[Trenchcoat]

Weird. I see more girls saying "no foreigners" on mamba. In Kiev at least people in general seem happy. I am not looking at the left bank of course. But my observation is based on what I see walking around people watching in the center. The ladies I met did not say to me they want to get out of dodge. One asked me if I would move to Ukraine. Laughter ensued....

Well Wall I think someone said recently on one of these boards that Mamba is more a local dating/hook up site. The second girl I met was from there and she contacted me. Most of the messages I sent out fell on deaf ears so I think this is probably true, a few replied but communication was difficult - strange odd replies back, very broken English, short replies, etc. So kind of telling that girls are now saying no foreigners.

In Kiev, in the centre that is probably one of the most prosperous parts of the whole of the Ukraine. There are a lot of soviet era high rise slums outside the city centre. I'm talking more the provincial smaller cities and town across the Ukraine (also no doubt Russia). I get the impression that in the provincial areas life is a lot harder. 

[BillyB]

. When I told her higher education in the UK is not free anymore this may have also made her decide to take flight.

She might think you're saying you will be financially strained if she marries you and get an education or she'll have to pay for it since the government won't pay. When my wife asked about getting higher education, I didn't tell her there's a cost to me, I told her she'll get it. It'll be a good investment when she pulls in 75k+ every year as an RN.

Weird. I see more girls saying "no foreigners" on mamba.

Most women on Mamba are looking for local boys. A foreign guy will get lots of rejection on Mamba but it's a good place to get dates when he's in town.

[JayH]

Trenchc..t -- does us all a favour and stop posting crap that you know nothing whatsoever about, You have about 2 1/2 minutes of exposure and little comprehension of what you did see-- but your comments extend far further- and your conclusions are distorted and highlight your ignorance.
You are a clueless social misfit -- anywhere.
Now you trot out another thread of bs.
You want to make statements and assert as facts so-
Let me ask you a few questions --
What type of car do you drive? How much equity do you have in it?
Your house/ apartment  -- do you "own" it?  How much equity do you have in it?
What investments do you have?
Are you employed? What work do you do ? What is your annual income?
Give us some idea of how you can support a wife -- from anywhere.

[Trenchcoat]

I believe a high percentage of Ukrainians would like to emigrate to another country where the economy was better.  (Why do you think they want the Schengen visa?)  It's not limited to single girls.

I'm not saying the girls are just looking for a mule, but a girl may be willing to give you a better chance at winning her heart if you can help her improve her financial standing. (And help her family too.)

Is it possible to win her heart?  Yes.  It's possible she is just looking for a mule also.  With risk comes reward.  You won't get the reward if you are afraid of the risk.

Thanks Bee Farmer, I'm starting to get a clearer picture on this all now and the FSU dating mechanics. I think for girls that fall into this category I would have to go out there and allow time to meet many of them. A girl who is not into me as well as a better life/money/living comfortably could just be a big horrendous liability to me. If I go out there to meet just one of these girls then the odds are not going to be good - like finding a needle in a haystack. If I meet enough though, one takes a shine to me and like you say I win her heart then I don't mind if there is other factors involved. So long as she is willing to work with me, wants to be with me after arriving in UK or whatever, and we're both happy than that is good enough for me.

[Trenchcoat]

She might think you're saying you will be financially strained if she marries you and get an education or she'll have to pay for it since the government won't pay. When my wife asked about getting higher education, I didn't tell her there's a cost to me, I told her she'll get it. It'll be a good investment when she pulls in 75k+ every year as an RN.

Most women on Mamba are looking for local boys. A foreign guy will get lots of rejection on Mamba but it's a good place to get dates when he's in town.

Yeah she seemed to be contemplating doing further Sociology courses, even though she was or had just been to uni and had just done one (she said she was about to finish but I managed to find her VK page where it she had pics up off her in a graduation gown like from a few months, year or so previous - I don't think it was high school as she was 23). So no I'm pretty sure she would be a low earner, most likely non-earner in the UK, I would be supporting her to do her 'interest' subject. A sociology degree would garner little interest here from most employers never mind anywhere else. This accounts for a bit of turn around, at the start of the meal she was chopping my pizza for me, we were having conversation and getting on quite well I think. Then I had to go for a toilet break, after the toilet break I went back to the table and all of a sudden she had to go, been called back by friend, i.e bs excuse.

I thoughts are now is that she lives in a squalid flat with her friend, is probably unemployed owing to sociology degree & poor opportunities/state of the economy and having finished Sociology previous year wanted to ride again on another course with me paying for all the costs, the course, accommodation, etc.

[Trenchcoat]

Trenchc..t -- does us all a favour and stop posting crap that you know nothing whatsoever about, You have about 2 1/2 minutes of exposure and little comprehension of what you did see-- but your comments extend far further- and your conclusions are distorted and highlight your ignorance.
You are a clueless social misfit -- anywhere.
Now you trot out another thread of bs.
You want to make statements and assert as facts so-
Let me ask you a few questions --
What type of car do you drive? How much equity do you have in it?
Your house/ apartment  -- do you "own" it?  How much equity do you have in it?
What investments do you have?
Are you employed? What work do you do ? What is your annual income?
Give us some idea of how you can support a wife -- from anywhere.

Sorry that I caught you at a moment of PMT. Truth is you are still looking after 5 years and 10 plus trips. I would rather ask questions on here to more experienced members who have a better idea than you clearly do or you would have already been successful. Experience in the field helps but only if you learn something from it. Constant experience without learning what is actually happening in the dating game over there is like trying to shot at a target blindfolded. I make statements/assumptions on here some of which are solid others less so since I am reasoning or try to reason what the situation is. Others with more experience have come back to me and set me straight at times about a world I had no idea over and parts of which I am still discovering. The time will come for me to make another visit in the near future, when it has warmed up a bit out there and I am organised and prepared. Otherwise I am foolishly jumping on a plane each time potentially falling foul of areas I could have discovered about on here. The guys on here have already stated they have save guys on here thousands and I believe this to be true.

As to your questions, yes I earn an income, yes I have investments and yes I have a car, its not a Ferrari but a small and practical car that is economical to run and relatively new. I am well educated and believe with sound reason that I can make a lot of money in the near future and have plans in motion to secure myself a decent income not reliant on being at work as such. My family are also decently well off. So no I am not too poor to be of little interest to these girls but not so rich as to be a major magnet for gold diggers. Add to this the major difference in earning power of the two economies UK & Ukraine (or Russia) and there is plenty of reason for a girl to want to be with even not a real wealthy guy from the UK so long as he has some money around. My goal of course is to find a girl who is in love with me whether other factors are present or not, and you?

[JayH]

Sorry that I caught you at a moment of PMT. Truth is you are still looking after 5 years and 10 plus trips. I would rather ask questions on here to more experienced members who have a better idea than you clearly do or you would have already been successful.

See--there you go again-- making presumptions and drawing conclusions on things you have zero knowledge of--again ! Now you have attempted that slap about 4 times previously --really--it only highlights my point about your ignorance.
You regurgitate as "facts"  things you think you have learnt here --but really !!
So-- you think your little hero attempted sex tourist Dragon Kid is knowledgeable do you? You wrote that recently !


So you have a degree in what? Perhaps it is like DK's "qualification" ?

[Trenchcoat]

See--there you go again-- making presumptions and drawing conclusions on things you have zero knowledge of--again ! Now you have attempted that slap about 4 times previously --really--it only highlights my point about your ignorance.
You regurgitate as "facts"  things you think you have learnt here --but really !!
So-- you think your little hero attempted sex tourist Dragon Kid is knowledgeable do you? You wrote that recently !


So you have a degree in what? Perhaps it is like DK's "qualification" ?

So pray tell what may I ask have you learnt in your more than 5 years and 10 plus trips in the game?

I notice you are from Australia, I would have thought you would have had a lot of opportunities to visit the middle to eastern side of Russia where competition is a lot less and scamming is less of an industry. What's holding you up?

My qualification is in the construction industry and if all goes well it's looking like I could do very well in the next year or two. What about your situation? I own up to mine.

[msmob]

I believe a high percentage of Ukrainians would like to emigrate to another country where the economy was better.  (Why do you think they want the Schengen visa?)  It's not limited to single girls.

IF Ukrainians got access to Schengen - you'd know this does not facilitate permanent residency ... 

[ML]

Upon questioning . . . my spouse reports she has heard nothing that would indicate Ukrainian women have increased their desire to leave Ukraine.

[Bee Farmer]

IF Ukrainians got access to Schengen - you'd know this does not facilitate permanent residency ...

The rules say it does not allow permanent residency.  But I am sure you also know that many Ukrainians believe rules are just suggestions.

I think many Ukrainians would be happy to work/live in Europe 6 months out of the year, and back at home with their families in Ukraine the other 6 months.

[Bee Farmer]

Upon questioning . . . my spouse reports she has heard nothing that would indicate Ukrainian women have increased their desire to leave Ukraine.

I've gotten to know a Ukrainian guy a little bit in the past few years.  He has a PhD in biology.  A college professor's salary is peanuts in Ukraine.  He posted a video a while back of science academics protesting because they had not gotten paid.

I know he went and worked in Turkey for a year, and now he is back in Ukraine again. 

He is desperately seeking a job abroad because the economy is so bad in Ukraine.  In his own words, he is willing to accept any kind of teaching job.  He would even be willing to consider being a Russian language teacher.  I've sent him links to openings at some universities.

He does make YouTube videos, and is able to make some money from the advertising revenue.  He has told me in email that the money he makes from YouTube really helps him.

Here is a guy that is in his 50's, and he is ready to abandon Ukraine if he can get a job somewhere else.
http://www.youtube.com/user/ufensia

[Trenchcoat]

He is desperately seeking a job abroad because the economy is so bad in Ukraine.  In his own words, he is willing to accept any kind of teaching job.  He would even be willing to consider being a Russian language teacher.  I've sent him links to openings at some universities.

That what I figured with these girls and one told me as much recently, that and there generally tends to be little opportunities in many provincial towns. I get the impression they get bored out of their skulls, I mean some have nothing going on in them the worst being real backwaters. I don't mind this but need to find a girl that is into me otherwise the risk of her looking at things as a trading up exercise once in the UK is too great. So finding the right one not just anyone is something I have to bear in mind. Someone I would want to wake up in bed next to, etc.

I guess Schengen might be used by Ukrainians wanting to drop anchor babies in the EU, is one possibility I guess.

[msmob]

The rules say it does not allow permanent residency.  But I am sure you also know that many Ukrainians believe rules are just suggestions.

I think many Ukrainians would be happy to work/live in Europe 6 months out of the year, and back at home with their families in Ukraine the other 6 months.

Then they would be breaking the terms of their Visas..

Those issued - IF Ukraine gets such an agreement - will be for 90 days and not permit work.

IF granted - and many within the EU seek to stop it - mass abuse of the Visa scheme means it would be withdrawn

[ML]

I guess Schengen might be used by Ukrainians wanting to drop anchor babies in the EU, is one possibility I guess.

Which EU members have the 'anchor baby' loophole that exists in USA?

[Bounder]

I met a girl who in the very first conversation told me she wants to relocate. I appreciated the honesty and transparency. Since getting to know her, that's been born out. She had an opportunity to relocate to the US, but she wasn't in love with the guy, so it was a non-starter for her.

[tfcrew]

Which EU members have the 'anchor baby' loophole that exists in USA?

No European country presently grants unconditional birthright citizenship; ..

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Birth_tourism

[2tallbill]

Recently been coming across more women that seem to be stressing that they 'really want to locate', 'change life', 'think of future', etc one even state she didn't think she would return to her city anymore! (after finding new guy abroad) but in stead would prefer to invite family over. Ok they state, family, finding soulmate, maybe even children along with it, but the wanting to get the hell out of Ukraine to another country seems to be the priority from want I sense in their letters. Even last year when I was looking I didn't really get the impression from many girls that there was a dying urgency to leave Ukraine and start a new life abroad as a dying urgency.

There are a lot of possible explanations for this, most of them not good. My advice
would be to investigate the core reasons behind their statements.

The runaway from her problems girl: Everyone knows somebody who disappears
when a problem comes up. If she moves to Blighty her problems in her mind stay
in Ukraine. This girl isn't well suited for international marriage in my opinion and
once identified should be avoided.

The desperate girl: A girl who is in danger or serious trouble. This girl is in a terrible
situation that she absolutely needs to get out of. She will do whatever she needs to
do to survive and protect her family. The problems with desperate girls is that they
tend to act desperately, and once the danger or trouble is gone that same girl will
start acting normally (for her). I recommend avoiding these girls as well.

The grass is always greener girl: The girl who always thinks it will be better someplace
else and possibly with somebody else. I would generally avoid these girls as well.
This girl is rarely happy with her situation and always looking for an upgrade.

The pragmatic girl: This is a girl who wants a quality man who will love and accept
her (and any children she has) and who will build a future with her. She will sometimes
compromise on some things in order to get the qualities in a man that she really needs/desires. This girl has potential.

Just wondered what others thoughts on this are. Is it possible to have a loving relationship with one of these girls even if she puts moving to new country as a top priority at first, i.e if real chemistry arises (not faked)?

From reading this, it sounds like you might be referring to her profile and I wouldn't
recommend taking too much stock in it. Her friend might have written it for her, she
might have misunderstood how her comments would be interpreted to English. She
might have filled out her profile from drop down menus or used a dictionary and picked
the wrong words.

I used a profile as to sort through girls but not to figure them out.
If I didn't like her photos then I didn't read the profile.
If she was a Muslim or non Christian I didn't go further.
If she wrote NO MAN OVER 36 years old, I didn't go further.

If she passed the general sorting then I would write a letter. Many of
these girls didn't write me back (they sorted me) occasionally one wouldn't
write me back that I wanted her to so I would write another letter explaining
that she wasn't going to live happily ever after with me if she didn't write me
back. 

I would keep sorting and get them on skype. 9 out of 10 times I would only
skype with a girl once and I would move on. Once a girl met me on Skype
she had to impress me. Most girls don't know how to do this, but I would
ask them questions, tell them funny stories and watch and listen to them
and the real girl would start to emerge.

Udachi!

Bill

[Boethius]

You're overthinking this, Bill.

Every woman who is willing to date a foreign man is willing to relocate.  Period.  End of story.  I wouldn't put too much store in what is listed on a profile to reject a woman based on this.

According to most the recent polls, 65% of Ukrainians wish to leave Ukraine permanently.  Reasons (based on responses in descending order):

1.  No future for my family.
2.  Small salaries.
3.  Difficult economic situation.
4.  Ukraine is a lawless country where corruption flourishes.
5.  Unstable political situation
6.  Quality of life is better abroad.
7.  Can earn a decent living, even in non prestigious occupations.
8.  No safety nets in Ukraine.
9.  No jobs.

So, almost every UW a man meets, by your standards, should be rejected.

[Boethius]

Every tenth marriage registered in Kyiv is with a foreigner.  Order of countries is:


1.   Germany
2.   France
3.   Italy
4.   Spain
5.   Greece
6.   U.S.
7.   Canada
8.   Israel
9.   Turkey
10. Egypt
11. Belgium
12. UK
13. China
14. Ireland
15. Australia

[Boethius]

Over 1 million Ukrainians work in Poland.  Another 500,000 live there permanently.  Over 4 million Ukrainians work in Russia legally, half a million more work illegally.   

There are more Ukrainians in the Czech Republic than Slovaks - about 140,000.

[Gator]

The runaway from her problems girl:

The desperate girl:

The grass is always greener girl:

The pragmatic girl:

Excellent.     To expand your list, I add two other girl categories:

The girl whom RM avoid -  These women are difficult women.    FSUM date them for sex yet avoid commitment, especially marriage.   Western men can not comprehend in a few dates that she is too demanding, has a mental condition, etc. especially if she knows to be on her best behavior. 

The spoiled girl past her shelf life -  These women can be very beautiful.  When young, they received much attention from FSUM and were spoiled.  However, for any of a number of reasons, the FSUM do not commit and the women are passed to other men, less wealthy men.  She is now well past her dyevushka years and can no longer demand lavish gifts from FSUM.  Some may even have tried being an escort.  She sees western men as her last chance.