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Author Topic: Crimea: teens murdered, money so tight even strippers can't make a living  (Read 16136 times)

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Offline Larry1

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Teenagers murdered, women hounded on the street and money so tight even the strippers can't get paid: Inside 'prison cell' Crimea after Russian invasion

MailOnline found the desperate region - formerly a bustling tourist resort - preparing for a winter of food shortages, soaring prices, and power cuts. But much more chillingly we found evidence of people being killed for speaking Ukrainian, hounded for being Muslim Tatars and fear even among the residents who support Putin.

The deserted beaches and hotels plus a boycott by all Western cruise ships has devastated the economy, so much so that Crimea's voluptuous striptease performers - de rigeur in nightclubs at the peninsula's better hotels - gyrate on stage to empty tables. Their lucrative tips payment system has dried up...

Undaunted by the Russian takeover, at the gargantuan Intourist hotel the 'erotic show' goes on night after night despite the lack of punters in its cavernous auditorium. Many of the bored dancers are from mainland Ukraine.
Lera, 21, from Kiev, said: 'It's my first time here this year and it's very empty. There have been no foreign men the whole time I've been here, not like last year.

'All the girls want to do private dances because that's how we make extra money - we may not like it but that's how it is. 'But on this visit, I only got paid a tip once. Look around, you can see how empty it is.
'This place used to be full all the time. It didn't depend on the season
.

RWD readers might be interested in this:

Quote
Galina, who works in tourist office of the landmark Sevastopol Hotel, said woefully: 'There used to be foreign tourists, but not any more. 'We took care of all the foreigners coming to our city, arranging excursions, often linked to culture and history, but now our multi-lingual guides have no customers.'
In fact, when we arrived here, there was a single lone Westerner in the hotel: an American man who the staff labelled a 'sex tourist'. He was deep in conversations in the cafe with two women young enough to be his granddaughters.

 

But there are more disturbing allegations:

Quote
Ukrainian mother Tatyana Ivanyuk, 35, feels she has no closure on her son Mark's disturbing death. A 16 year old student, he was beaten by a policeman who stopped him walking home with a friend from a night out, she alleges. 'It was because he began to talk to them in Ukrainian. He spoke only Ukrainian, and I suspect this is the reason why the fight started.'

When she demanded a probe into his death, the police 'mocked me for speaking Ukrainian'.

Her son's friend, who was with him, told her they were beaten: yet the official cause of death is a car accident in what human rights activists fear is a cover up.

 

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2848959/Teenagers-murdered-grannies-hounded-street-money-tight-strippers-t-paid-Inside-prison-cell-Crimea-Russian-invasion.html

The government had created what the Daily Mail called British-style saucy posters to entice people to vacation in Crimea.  The article contained lots of them, here is one:

Offline Brasscasing

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Re: Crimea: teens murdered, money so tight even strippers can't make a living
« Reply #1 on: November 28, 2014, 10:40:20 AM »
It'd be kinda like taking your vacation in occupied Poland circa 1940, I would imagine.

I find it a little bit of a stretch that MailOnline is using the erotic dance circuit as an example of tough times in Crimea, though.

Of course there's not going to be a legion of foreign male (sex) tourists in Russian held Crimea looking for play for pay right now. That'd be just plain suicidal considering even the locals are being robbed for their meager kopecks. 

As for local male audiences. My guess would be the Ukrainian mainland girls are all dubbed "spies/informers" and as it was in Soviet times it seems the presumption of guilt is absolute if you're accused of crimes against the state in 'New Russia' (according to various news reports coming out of the region).

Trying to explain why one needed a 'private dance' with a Ukrainian mainland 'spy/informer' when there are perfectly good local Novorossiya girls to court might be a little difficult.  :P

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Offline CDW

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Re: Crimea: teens murdered, money so tight even strippers can't make a living
« Reply #2 on: November 28, 2014, 12:04:38 PM »
Well what do you expect - most of them who live in Crimea voted for Russia.

I rest my case!

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Offline JayH

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Re: Crimea: teens murdered, money so tight even strippers can't make a living
« Reply #3 on: November 28, 2014, 04:44:45 PM »
Well what do you expect - most of them who live in Crimea voted for Russia.

I rest my case!

I trust your comment is sarcastic?  To be pedantic--it is impossible to now how any one voted-- and that is even after you recognise the "vote"--which no one with any brains does.

The same myth is promoted about people in eastern Ukraine--it is not what the numbers said--and even if they did-- still no reason to abandon Ukraine.

No doubt how tough business is doing on the Crimea.
Sorry to read about Hotel Sevastopol--it is my favourite hotel in Ukraine -marvellous gracious building that features as backdrop in many newscasts from the Crimea.
SLAVA UKRAYINI  ! HEROYAM SLAVA!!!!
Слава Украине! Слава героям слава!Слава Україні! Слава героям!
 translated as: Glory to Ukraine! Glory to the heroes!!!  is a Ukrainian greeting slogan being used now all over Ukraine to signify support for a free independent Ukraine

Offline Photo Guy

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Re: Crimea: teens murdered, money so tight even strippers can't make a living
« Reply #4 on: December 04, 2014, 03:31:44 PM »
Polls? The results were dubious for a number of reasons. The authorities in the breakaway regions did NOT allow the locals to vote for a new President for Ukraine (Poroshenko) That tells us a lot about their new/old politics there. Also, most interviews with separatists/terrorists, and local townfolk express the idea that they were protecting their land from crazy neo-nazi fascists from the West. So that crazy idea is based on what? Lies-propaganda! Thousands of deaths because of unreal ideas. The people of Donbas have no history of democracy. They have a history of authoritarian oligarchs and the former Soviet system. They want peace. It's a life of fear, fighting, and having an ideology is just a distant luxury.

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Re: Crimea: teens murdered, money so tight even strippers can't make a living
« Reply #5 on: December 04, 2014, 05:43:21 PM »
I trust your comment is sarcastic?  To be pedantic--it is impossible to now how any one voted-- and that is even after you recognise the "vote"--which no one with any brains does.

The same myth is promoted about people in eastern Ukraine--it is not what the numbers said--and even if they did-- still no reason to abandon Ukraine.

No doubt how tough business is doing on the Crimea.
Sorry to read about Hotel Sevastopol--it is my favourite hotel in Ukraine -marvellous gracious building that features as backdrop in many newscasts from the Crimea.

Pictures don't lie, JayH.  Somebody there wanted to be Russian.  Otherwise it wouldn't have been such a lay back.

Offline fathertime

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Re: Crimea: teens murdered, money so tight even strippers can't make a living
« Reply #6 on: December 04, 2014, 10:14:41 PM »
Pictures don't lie, JayH.  Somebody there wanted to be Russian.  Otherwise it wouldn't have been such a lay back.


 :clapping:


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Offline JayH

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Re: Crimea: teens murdered, money so tight even strippers can't make a living
« Reply #7 on: December 05, 2014, 12:14:21 AM »
Pictures don't lie, JayH.  Somebody there wanted to be Russian.  Otherwise it wouldn't have been such a lay back.

That would be the murderous Berkut thugs of Yanukovych fleeing Kiev to escape justice for shooting protesters at Maidan-they supplied a core of organisation and arms to the  pro -Rus  idiot fringe 3% on the Crimea who hankered for Russia--throw in it fitting in with Putin's FSB work to destabilise Ukraine in general who took advantage of  Ukraine  government in turmoil and trying to get organised-- and there you have it.
Only a complete and utter idiot could ever applaud it.
SLAVA UKRAYINI  ! HEROYAM SLAVA!!!!
Слава Украине! Слава героям слава!Слава Україні! Слава героям!
 translated as: Glory to Ukraine! Glory to the heroes!!!  is a Ukrainian greeting slogan being used now all over Ukraine to signify support for a free independent Ukraine

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Re: Crimea: teens murdered, money so tight even strippers can't make a living
« Reply #8 on: December 05, 2014, 12:56:48 AM »
That would be the murderous Berkut thugs of Yanukovych fleeing Kiev to escape justice for shooting protesters at Maidan-they supplied a core of organisation and arms to the  pro -Rus  idiot fringe 3% on the Crimea who hankered for Russia--throw in it fitting in with Putin's FSB work to destabilise Ukraine in general who took advantage of  Ukraine  government in turmoil and trying to get organised-- and there you have it.
Only a complete and utter idiot could ever applaud it.


I don't think anyone is applauding it except perhaps fathertime.  The vote was clearly a violation of Ukraine's Constitution.  Having said that there is simply no doubt that a majority of persons living in Crimea wanted to return to Russia.  Just look at the ethnic breakdown of the area.  No doubt they intimidated Tatar's and ethnic Ukrainians.  Yet they will always say it was a majority and I really don't think anyone wants to lose their life fighting over it since they are heavily armed and firmly entrenched there.  Stopping Putler where he is at in E. Ukraine is worth fighting for.  If he's stopped there and never gets his land bridge, the economic sanctions over time might do enough harm that eventually there will be a regime change in Russia and who knows what the next leader of Russia will do.  They just might try to make a deal with Ukraine and the West over Crimea.

Offline fathertime

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Re: Crimea: teens murdered, money so tight even strippers can't make a living
« Reply #9 on: December 05, 2014, 07:22:43 AM »
That would be the murderous Berkut thugs of Yanukovych fleeing Kiev to escape justice for shooting protesters at Maidan-they supplied a core of organisation and arms to the  pro -Rus  idiot fringe 3% on the Crimea who hankered for Russia--throw in it fitting in with Putin's FSB work to destabilise Ukraine in general who took advantage of  Ukraine  government in turmoil and trying to get organised-- and there you have it.
Only a complete and utter idiot could ever applaud it.
I'd say only a complete and utter idiot wouldn't recognize the truth. ;)

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Offline fathertime

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Re: Crimea: teens murdered, money so tight even strippers can't make a living
« Reply #10 on: December 05, 2014, 07:31:44 AM »
   Having said that there is simply no doubt that a majority of persons living in Crimea wanted to return to Russia.  J
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Offline Belvis

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Re: Crimea: teens murdered, money so tight even strippers can't make a living
« Reply #11 on: December 05, 2014, 09:45:19 AM »
  If he's stopped there and never gets his land bridge, the economic sanctions over time might do enough harm that eventually there will be a regime change in Russia and who knows what the next leader of Russia will do.  They just might try to make a deal with Ukraine and the West over Crimea.

To be realistic I'd propose to think about the deal over Texas with Mexico.  Then you'll realize better the current situation and state of Russian public mood about Crimea.
As for sanctions, they strengthen the regime though produce some discomfort for middle class. Middle upper class get used to foie gras and mozzarella in last years, it's not easy to change taste preferences.  :)  On the other hand the sanctions may produce benefits for Crimea because of tourist traffic redirection from more expensive foreign routes.

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Re: Crimea: teens murdered, money so tight even strippers can't make a living
« Reply #12 on: December 05, 2014, 10:33:50 AM »
To be realistic I'd propose to think about the deal over Texas with Mexico.  Then you'll realize better the current situation and state of Russian public mood about Crimea.
As for sanctions, they strengthen the regime though produce some discomfort for middle class. Middle upper class get used to foie gras and mozzarella in last years, it's not easy to change taste preferences.  :)  On the other hand the sanctions may produce benefits for Crimea because of tourist traffic redirection from more expensive foreign routes.

Maybe you don't get the just of your comparison. Texas fought a war with Mexico for their independence and won. Texas then freely and without occupation chose to become a State. Texas is still an independent and can secede anytime they choose. Bad analogy

Only some "discomfort" for the middle class? Please describe middle class? My wife's family seem to be having a difficult time making their meager pensions last to the end of the month. Apparently inflation of the ruble is spiraling out of control and is making for difficult decisions on food and healthcare. I would love to hear your version of the mild discomfort?

Offline Muzh

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Re: Crimea: teens murdered, money so tight even strippers can't make a living
« Reply #13 on: December 05, 2014, 11:05:46 AM »
FP, don't you love these analogies from these guys?


"What would you think if Mexico attacked the US or vice versa?"


or


"What do you think if Canada attacked the US or vice versa?"


Well, the thing is that they did.


The US attacked Mexico and vice versa and so did Canada. Eons ago.


However, after the dust settled, we learned to live like good neighbors, regardless of what Ted Cruz says. No one is begging foreign countries to supply them with arms to defend themselves from the big imperialistic neighbor.


Like what Ukraine is doing right now.
To argue with a man who has renounced the use and authority of reason, and whose philosophy consists in holding humanity in contempt, is like administering medicine to the dead. Thomas Paine - The American Crisis 1776-1783

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Re: Crimea: teens murdered, money so tight even strippers can't make a living
« Reply #14 on: December 05, 2014, 11:40:11 AM »
To be realistic I'd propose to think about the deal over Texas with Mexico.  Then you'll realize better the current situation and state of Russian public mood about Crimea.
As for sanctions, they strengthen the regime though produce some discomfort for middle class. Middle upper class get used to foie gras and mozzarella in last years, it's not easy to change taste preferences.  :)  On the other hand the sanctions may produce benefits for Crimea because of tourist traffic redirection from more expensive foreign routes.

The 19th Century has been over for a very long time.  And as it has been mentioned if Russia keeps using that type of strategy to justify their actions then Russia itself is going to come under attack from all sorts of directions.  Russia has signed treaties including the Budapest memorandum in 1994.  So either Russia is an honorable nation which other nations can trust or a treaty signed by Russia might as well be written on soiled toilet paper.
« Last Edit: December 05, 2014, 11:42:51 AM by AC »

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Re: Crimea: teens murdered, money so tight even strippers can't make a living
« Reply #15 on: December 05, 2014, 04:18:10 PM »
Maybe you don't get the just of your comparison. Texas fought a war with Mexico for their independence and won. Texas then freely and without occupation chose to become a State. Texas is still an independent and can secede anytime they choose. Bad analogy

Exactly with regard to Texas.  Texas in its fight for independence did not receive weapons and "green men" from the US (unlike the rebels in control of eastern Ukraine, who would have been overrun without direct military intervention by Russia).

Ukraine is more like the 1775-1783 American Revolutionary War with key differences.  The French, a long-time bitter enemy of the British, in 1778 recognized the US as a sovereign nation and then provided significant assistance.  The French effort was more anti-British than pro-American.   IMO George Washington would eventually have prevailed without the French, yet the French clearly sped  the withdrawal of British military from America. 

BTW, 20% of the American colonialists during the war were Loyalists who supported Britain and wanted to stay under British rule.   Fence-sitters outnumbered patriots. 

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Re: Crimea: teens murdered, money so tight even strippers can't make a living
« Reply #16 on: December 05, 2014, 04:29:35 PM »
Exactly with regard to Texas.  Texas in its fight for independence did not receive weapons and "green men" from the US (unlike the rebels in control of eastern Ukraine, who would have been overrun without direct military intervention by Russia).

If I recall my history, a band of Americans from Tennessee and Kentucky fought for Texas at the Alamo. Davey Crockett anyone?  ;)
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Re: Crimea: teens murdered, money so tight even strippers can't make a living
« Reply #17 on: December 05, 2014, 04:39:13 PM »
If I recall my history, a band of Americans from Tennessee and Kentucky fought for Texas at the Alamo. Davey Crockett anyone?  ;)

Truly a volunteer from the Volunteer State, not a representative of the US military.   In fact Davey was at odds with the US government.  He was a US Congressman with some controversial positions.  He is remembered for this quote, "I told the people of my district that I would serve them as faithfully as I had done; but if not, they might go to hell, and I would go to Texas."


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Re: Crimea: teens murdered, money so tight even strippers can't make a living
« Reply #18 on: December 05, 2014, 04:40:13 PM »

The US attacked Mexico and vice versa.....Eons ago.



Yes, Mexico mounted small skirmishes along the contested border.  OTOH, the US mounted a major invasion that eventually captured Mexico City, the capital of Mexico.



Quote
    However, after the dust settled, we learned to live like good neighbors...     

You sped through the dust settling phase in which expansionist America compelled Mexico at gunpoint to recognize Texas and to sell us California, etc. for half of the price that Mexico had years earlier refused to accept. 

But those days were eons ago as Muzh states.  When was the last time one European country took sovereign land from another European country?
« Last Edit: December 05, 2014, 04:43:01 PM by Gator »

lordtiberius

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Re: Crimea: teens murdered, money so tight even strippers can't make a living
« Reply #19 on: December 05, 2014, 04:52:44 PM »
That would be the murderous Berkut thugs of Yanukovych fleeing Kiev to escape justice for shooting protesters at Maidan-they supplied a core of organisation and arms to the  pro -Rus  idiot fringe 3% on the Crimea who hankered for Russia--throw in it fitting in with Putin's FSB work to destabilise Ukraine in general who took advantage of  Ukraine  government in turmoil and trying to get organised-- and there you have it.
Only a complete and utter idiot could ever applaud it.

Any talk of the legality and form of the referendum is moot.  Though the Armed Forces, the Tatars and the loyal Ukrainians wanted to fight to hold Crimea in the absence of a legal referendum.  The Turchinov government did nothing.  So this is the fruit of that labor:



When she was running for President, Timoshenko talked of arming the Tatars.  There is none of that talk today . . .

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Re: Crimea: teens murdered, money so tight even strippers can't make a living
« Reply #20 on: December 05, 2014, 05:00:02 PM »
If I recall my history, a band of Americans from Tennessee and Kentucky fought for Texas at the Alamo. Davey Crockett anyone?  ;)


The Alamo was nearly 200 years ago and more than eons ago in how most of humanity and the World has changed.  It's only Russia and a few other rogue arrogant nations who keep trying to divert attention away from their illegal actions today by mentioning 19th Century deeds and actions.


WWII will have been fought in vain and all the International Laws as well since then in vain if the USA and NATO do not stop Herr Putler where he is in his tracks and thru ongoing punishment of economic sanctions undo the damage he has done to Ukraine.  Making Russia pay war reparations to Ukraine would be a very good idea.

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Re: Crimea: teens murdered, money so tight even strippers can't make a living
« Reply #21 on: December 05, 2014, 08:45:50 PM »
Any talk of the legality and form of the referendum is moot.  Though the Armed Forces, the Tatars and the loyal Ukrainians wanted to fight to hold Crimea in the absence of a legal referendum.  The Turchinov government did nothing.  So this is the fruit of that labor:



When she was running for President, Timoshenko talked of arming the Tatars.  There is none of that talk today . . .
LT -you need to put what happened in the context of the time. Ukraine government in upheaval and in no position to force any issue.A government uncertain of the support of it's public servants,police,military etc would have been foolish at that time to get into a battle in such a disorganised way. As an example--it took months to weed out of the military the non loyal and replace them with patriots ( and you can see how much better the military has performed as a result).
In retrospect it was the smart thing to do--having Ukrainians killed in those circumstances would have been irresponsible--also remember that it was still thought possible to negotiate a solution at that time.
The new government had  FSB inspired spot fires to deal with in numerous cities-- and only in Lugansk and Donetsk did they get traction( mainly as a result of paid Russian thugs and military on the ground).
The Crimean story is a long way from over--regardless of what Russia moves in there.
« Last Edit: December 05, 2014, 08:47:56 PM by JayH »
SLAVA UKRAYINI  ! HEROYAM SLAVA!!!!
Слава Украине! Слава героям слава!Слава Україні! Слава героям!
 translated as: Glory to Ukraine! Glory to the heroes!!!  is a Ukrainian greeting slogan being used now all over Ukraine to signify support for a free independent Ukraine

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Re: Crimea: teens murdered, money so tight even strippers can't make a living
« Reply #22 on: December 05, 2014, 09:43:35 PM »
LT -you need to put what happened in the context of the time. Ukraine government in upheaval and in no position to force any issue.A government uncertain of the support of it's public servants,police,military etc would have been foolish at that time to get into a battle in such a disorganised way. As an example--it took months to weed out of the military the non loyal and replace them with patriots ( and you can see how much better the military has performed as a result).
In retrospect it was the smart thing to do--having Ukrainians killed in those circumstances would have been irresponsible--also remember that it was still thought possible to negotiate a solution at that time.
The new government had  FSB inspired spot fires to deal with in numerous cities-- and only in Lugansk and Donetsk did they get traction( mainly as a result of paid Russian thugs and military on the ground).
The Crimean story is a long way from over--regardless of what Russia moves in there.


I only partially agree with you.  Ukraine lost some very valuable aircraft because nobody in a leadership position in Kiev ordered the pilots in Crimea to get those aircraft back to safety.  As far as fighting history has shown that the longer a country or countries wait to stand-up to a criminal dictator the more lives and territory is lost.

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Re: Crimea: teens murdered, money so tight even strippers can't make a living
« Reply #23 on: December 05, 2014, 10:04:47 PM »
Any talk of the legality and form of the referendum is moot.  Though the Armed Forces, the Tatars and the loyal Ukrainians wanted to fight to hold Crimea in the absence of a legal referendum.  The Turchinov government did nothing.  So this is the fruit of that labor:


I agree completely.  While it would have been a bloodbath it would have also woken up the World much faster to the true nature of Putin and Russia today.  Furthermore I doubt if Putin would have been able to take the territory that he did in E. Ukraine because Ukraine would have already mobilized every fighting man and piece of equipment to the border.

Live free or die is not just a motto it's a way of life for some and those who are lulled into a false sense of security sometimes pay the price for inattention and inaction. 

It did not help that Putin's little puppet Yanuconvict had already robbed the country blind leaving the Ukrainian military ill prepared.

lordtiberius

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Re: Crimea: teens murdered, money so tight even strippers can't make a living
« Reply #24 on: December 06, 2014, 08:38:19 AM »
LT -you need to put what happened in the context of the time. Ukraine government in upheaval and in no position to force any issue.A government uncertain of the support of it's public servants,police,military etc would have been foolish at that time to get into a battle in such a disorganised way. As an example--it took months to weed out of the military the non loyal and replace them with patriots ( and you can see how much better the military has performed as a result).
In retrospect it was the smart thing to do--having Ukrainians killed in those circumstances would have been irresponsible--also remember that it was still thought possible to negotiate a solution at that time.
The new government had  FSB inspired spot fires to deal with in numerous cities-- and only in Lugansk and Donetsk did they get traction( mainly as a result of paid Russian thugs and military on the ground).
The Crimean story is a long way from over--regardless of what Russia moves in there.

You may excuse the Turchinov government for its weak response but I will not.  The ships wanted to leave port, the Army wanted to take back outposts, the Tatars wanted to take to the street.  Everyone is waiting for Kiev.  Kiev is silent.  Maybe her US handlers are telling her to shut up?  In any event, its impotent response only encouraged the fifth column.  Only Odessa and Poroshenko reversed these advances. 

 

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