Are you man enough for a RW?

[KenC]

Are there certain types of men or certain personalities of men that should not get involved with this process?

It has long been said here that RW are not for everyone.  I have always maintained that men with little or no dating skills should avoid this process as the possibility for them to be eaten by sharks is just too great.  Your thoughts?
KenC

[catzenmouse]

A quote I really like is "RW are not for entry level dating." (think this was from jb) which, to me anyway, sums it all up in a nutshell.

The following are all intertwined but here are a few things that will paint a big red target on your forehead:
 - Weak personality type
 - Lack of self confidence
 - Submissiveness
 - Indecisiveness
 - Prone to depression or mood problems
 - Lack of patience

Plenty of other things could be added here. It all boils down to: if a man is not comfortable in his own skin and has a lack of social skills he's better off sticking with the local scene.

FWIW

[KenC]

"RW are not for entry level dating."
Catz,
That was the phrase that escaped me when I posted!  Thanks.

What I find ironic is that over the years th American feminist movement has put forth a mantra for men to become more sensitive and submissive to women, which is in direct contrast to what most RW want.  And I think what most AW want too.  Sometimes what they say is not what they really want.  It is too bad for the guys that have bought into the concept.
KenC

[BC]

Yeah, jb's words that you will need the patience of a Saint still rings strong here.

Some others:

RW don't make good 'rebound' material.

If you aren't dating at home, don't look overseas.

Think thrice about sending off your very first passport application.. Your destination is close to emotional hell..

You will usually overspend at the grocery store if you are hungry walking in.. Same applies to this venture if you are horny..

RW do not resolve depression or obsessive/compulsive disorders.. seek professional help instead.

If your first thoughts looking at a woman's profile is "I could have her.." you are with likely very wrong.

[Jet]

I agree wholeheartedly, and I know them when I see them but it would be difficult for me to explain exactly why, off the top of my head without giving it some more thought...

I can give you an example from the "meat" world, though:
One of the project managers in the company I work for has been on me for almost three years running about wanting to come along on my next trip to Russia so he can meet some RW, with the thoughts that he might eventually find a wife. It will NEVER happen.

I have come to regard this guy as a friend. He is a nice, honest, hardworking man with a good job, a beautiful 20th floor condo on Aventura Beach, and a strong devotion to his family (brother, sister, parents). He is about 5'6" 200lbs, Iranian decent, Jewish faith, no Brad Pitt, but wasn't beaten with the ugly stick either.  His father has spent time in Saint Petersburg and has urged the son to go and experience it for himself. Everything mentioned so far could be spun to work in his favor.

On the other end of the spectrum, parents live next door, 44 and never married, he has little domestic dating experience, he is a habitual offender when it comes to speaking when he should be listening & standing silent when he should be speaking up, wearing his heart on his sleeve, bending over backwards to help others (to his own detriment) so he's easily taken advantage of, and needing things spelled out in infinitesimal detail - sometimes repeatedly. He lives in a condo instead of a house because he likes being taken care of. He likes the fact that there is a security staff watching all the entrances and exits, all the time. He likes the fact that he can pick up the phone at any time of day or night and someone will be sent upstairs to attend to whatever problem happens to arise. He is without question, the type of guy that will need his hand held and his nose wiped from start to finish and beyond. In my mind, he is the perfect target for scammers, pro daters, and all manner of unscrupulous women in the FSU. All of these, along with a general "gut sense" that he more likely to be eaten alive than to be able to find/court/wed/live happily ever after contribute to my assessment that he's better off looking closer to home.

[Pike]

I think Jet has made a very good post to answer Ken's question about an example of who shouldn't try the FSUW route.  However, an argument could be made that this man won't be successful with AW  or any W either.

To change the focus just a little, I will go against the conventional wisdom here and state that I have found little difference between dating FSUW and AW.  I  don't consider myself any sort of expert, whether the Don Juan type, or any other specific type of guy who is successful with women.  But, I simply haven't had many major problems with FSUW (re the eaten by sharks concept) that I haven't also encountered with AW.  And, on a percentage basis, the problems have been minor in both cases.  However, I must repeat again that my experience is mostly with highly educated professional ladies in the 35-50 age bracket.

So I conclude from my own experience, that any guy who would be eaten by FSUW sharks will also be eaten by W sharks from their home country.  So just depends on where you want to get eaten!!  :-))

[2tallbill]

KenC Great thread

Wow several posts in a row without any gobble-de-goop, new age
mumble jumble poster.

Catz made a post which could be put in the FAQs
BC followed with some good points
Jet came through with story to describe a guy not suited for this venture.

This is a great thread start!!!!!

Bill

[KenC]

Well, Pike made a point that maybe men with the characteristics that Catz pointed out would be hard pressed to be successful with any kind of woman.  Or would he?  :noidea: I have met quite a few very mild mannered AW that would love a "low key" type of man.  I have not met that kind of RW yet.

In most cases I think couples seek out their equals in the area of strength.  The stronger the woman , the stronger the man she would require and vs versa too.  In all the RW I have met (and we have a lot of RW friends) and all the RW in my own family, I have yet to meet a meek and submissive RW.
KenC

[Misha]

I have yet to meet a meek and submissive RW.
KenC

I have to agree with you there Ken. I also have yet to meet such a RW.

Misha

[roykirk]

This is all so very true.  I almost sunk myself from the beginning with my GF by being indecisive and making almost fatal errors like asking if I could come visit her instead of telling her I was going to.  Fortunately my GF is very communicative and she warned me very early on that I needed to change my way of thinking if I expected her to stay around.  Blame it on being married for 10 years to a woman who very much ran the show.  One of the first things my GF said to me was, "You don't date much, do you?"  I'm glad she was patient with me and we've since worked out a lot of those early jitters on my end.

[I/O]

I'm the head of my house and I know this is so because my Russian wife told me.

I/O

[Maxx2]

Time for a story break. This fits because it is about tough Russian women and men who marry them. I wrote this last year

My dinner at a Manhattan restaurant with a beautiful RW, a feminist AM and his dumpy homely fat AW girlfriend. Also with us was another RW and her grown son the friend of the feminist-AM.




Throughout the evening this AM is sneaking looks at the RW sitting beside him. He seems to be admiring her profile and other parts during those brief looks. Sitting across from him is his dumpy fat AW girlfriend. You know the kind that no amount of dieting, exercise and plastic surgery would elevate her looks to a "5". She's a "2" at best with a guaranteed ticket of going down hill to less than zero. In other words aging will hit her harder than most. Needless to say she was not warm and friendly to the RW. I don't recall her even speaking to her. I was told by the other RW that she was giving the sleek RW the evil eye.

Anyway during the dinner conversation the subject gets over to Russian MOB's and why men marry them. The feminist man says the reason AM go to Russia is to get "subservient women". His fat dumpy AW girlfriend with coarse facial features and thick stubby limbs snorts her approval. The beautiful sleek RW does not react as she's the quiet type (unless she knows you!) but the other RW does. She tells him that few AM look for "subservient women" in RW and those that do soon find out they were mistaken. She then tells him he has been propagandized by feminist propaganda and he doesn't know *snip*. This guy BTW is of 100% Russian heritage and speaks Russian from his childhood. I suggested at that point I do an filmed interview of him for Russian media distribution of what happens to RM(boys) who are raised in America. The RW and I starting laughing thinking how his feminist psycho-babble would play to a Russian audience. He declines the interview. The conversation goes on with the fat dumpy AW scoffing at some of the things the RW said. Finally she says "RW are weak pushovers in compared with American women". I told her she didn't know RW and I would put my money on a RW in a contest of wills anyday. It got a bit heated and uncomfortable but eventually the conversation cooled off.

Afterwards outside the Manhattan restaurant the 2 RW deep in conversation started walking together down the street "towards" the subway station. True to the feminine weakness of not knowing directions they were heading in the wrong direction. The rest of us looked at them as they were walking a half a block away 90 degrees in the wrong direction. The son of the RW said "Were are they going?" To which the fat dumpy AW snorted "They couldn't win the argument so they ran way".

The pathetic part about all of this is the feminist man IS interested in the RW and she IS interested in him (from behind the scenes stuff I was told). He by the way is the same age as the sleek RW and is good looking. However he is settling for the politically correct choice. It is said the feminism was created by unattractive women to give them access to good looking men. I wasn't so sure about that theory until now.

Maxx

[Jumper]

on the extreeme side of things -
regardless of personality traits, nationality , or what have you-

any man, that would propose marriage and file a K1 for a woman that has shown almost zero interest ,and shown no affection of any kind, should not bother with international dating.


the waters there are just too dangerous for a non- swimmer!!!!!!!!!!!

now as pike mentioned ,likey for such a man, there are  very hazardous conditions in in his local pond as well ,
 and he may drown.

but the FSU would be like him attempting white water rafting.. with no life vest,,
and his chance of drowing is very much increased.

[Maxx2]

AJ, I had a conversation with Cameraguy a few months ago. He told me a story about you. He said you were walking down the street in Ukraine with you're future wife. She was chewing your as$ out on something. You slowed your pace until she was slightly ahead of you and you ducked into a store, bar or something, leaving her flapping her gums and bitching at you that wasn't there. We both admired what you had done. You are the man!

Maxx     

[Ronnie]

If people aren't telling you you're opinionated on a regular basis and strong-willed to a fault..

You might not be up for the challenge.


If you were dumped by your ex instead of the other way around....

You might not want to start a relationship with a FSUW until you dated and done some dumping yourself.


If you know you should but can't end a relationship in the early stages because she's soooo beautiful and you think she's the best you can catch,

You definitely shouldn't travel to the FSU.

Some might take issue with these comments and maybe I've stated them inartfully, but my point is that in my opinion, a guy needs a whale of a lot of self-confidence if he's to avoid disaster on this journey.  I say this because there are any physically attractive, sexy women who will show interest in him then when she starts acting badly, he won't be able to tell her to get lost.  A confident man can do that because he can keep his emotions under control when he knows this will be a very important decision so he shouldn't settle for beauty alone.. Her beauty will turn like leaves in the fall while her insolence will only grow.

[Jumper]

LOL maxx,
no not the man

while i did do that.....(umm,,embarrisingly two different times  )

it was a pretty immature act, actually.

The circumstances in that case were a bit different than that,
   she wasn't  bitching *at* me.

actually we were just walking along enjoying the city, and that was our plan for the day-
and suddenly she just started going somewhere in a pointed and particular  direction,like
she had a purpose or intent.

thats ok, but  when i asked , innocently enough ,
where are we going ?

 i got a very unusual for her:
"why do you need to know?" with dripping sarcasm..

me: "hmmm,, obviously i don't"

(to be fair , she normally would always be polite and considerate,
 and ask me if i wanted to see or do this or that, or could we go *here* as she was interested in doing something....
so even though she is very headstrong, it was unusual behaviour from her ,and really  caught me off guard )

anyway -
she kept walking at a more irritated pace,,i kept lagging further since she wouldnt talk about whatever was "actually" bothering her on such a nice day.
and she dint really notice that i was getting so far behind her ..
which pissed me off more,  than her 'tude already had ..lol!
(as i thought we'd stop and talk it out)
 
so "whatever"!!!!!!!!!! i diffinantly dont need this!!!!!!!!!!!
i just left her walking down the street thinking i'm a few paces back,,
and went into the crowd and off to a cafe, ,then a store or two,,then a walk along the river  to practice russian with a few "interesting locals.." ,
 then the 'net cafe..then to my flat..

we had dated  awhile by that time,,
(over a year?)
 and  I really honestly never expected to see her romantically again,
(who knows how far she went before she noticed i was gone)

now it was sad after all we had been thru,
,but you know,
 i was *ok * with that outcome  to.....
if she thought i would suffer foolishness gladly.
I had always treated her with utmost respect, and expected the same. period.
thats NOT an area of compromise.

Much later in the day i returned to my flat,
actually surprised  to find a full freeked out manhunt had been underway ,,
(What the heck? i knew my way around the city afterall,and did not expect that she would
look for me )

really just a bunch of silliness  - over her just having  a really bad day,
and a lot of seriuos personal troubles on her mind that she wasn't prepared, or willing,
 to discuss.
and me just being me.
which means i'm liable to do something like that at anytime, regardless of situation.lol

it wasnt a total loss..
we both learned a bit ..about each other..
she learned to actually EXPRESS if there are things bothering her,
and what they are.
and that ,yes , a certain level of respect is a minimum standard ,
or i will disappear ,without a word.
(she knows that its a real possibilty i might have just left for home  ,without even contacting her )

 I learned that i can still be pretty immature if my buttons are pushed..
as i should have tried to find out what was underneath the unusual behaviour..
and recognized she is simply far more private than i am,,
and i should have called to at least say,,
 *hey i'm ok,,but we need to talk about our words ,actions and mutual respect of each other*
or
* i'm ok , its been real..but see you around*
anything would be a bit more adult like.lol

i dont really regret my silly actions..at times.
as at those  points in time, in those contexts ,,it made perfect sense to me and still does...lol!!

but its far from making me "the man"

it really just a case of people setting thier personal boundries,,

and unforunantly i'm a bit more extreeme and not shy about it at all.
(in the past i've announced  to everyone in a restuarant , or in an airplane lol ,
if my *gf at the moment *conveniently* wanted to start some delicate
topic or fight in public,,unforunantly i will finish it there at volume just loud enough to ensure a staring crowd.. .. and maybe even ask for opinions from  volunteers from the audience..lol it's no embarrasment to me..)

that tends to make me more of a jerk, than *the man*..  
and is positively mortifying to most "terminally privite" RW,
my wifes a saint to deal with me really.
and its probably why i'm always drawn to strong willed ,head strong women,with high self esteem.

sorry for the novalla..
bucky and you had both asked about that incident though..

[roykirk]

If people aren't telling you you're opinionated on a regular basis and strong-willed to a fault..

You might not be up for the challenge.


If you were dumped by your ex instead of the other way around....

You might not want to start a relationship with a FSUW until you dated and done some dumping yourself.


If you know you should but can't end a relationship in the early stages because she's soooo beautiful and you think she's the best you can catch,

You definitely shouldn't travel to the FSU.

Ah, that's probably why I survived despite my shaky beginnings.  I was the one who asked for the divorce, and right before I met my girlfriend, I had just dumped a beautiful AW who seemed so perfect on the surface.  College professor, 28, loved drinking beer, great sense of humor, never married, no kids.  Problem was the crazy broad wouldn't fly.  Absolutely refused to even consider it.  Uh, yeah, that's not gonna work.  I had to send her down the road.  I guess I did have just a tiny bit of confidence.  Otherwise my Russian girlfriend would have eaten me alive.   

[I/O]

I guess I did have just a tiny bit of confidence.  Otherwise my Russian girlfriend would have eaten me alive.   

Don't count your chickens before they've hatched, there is time enough yet..............

I/O

[BC]

Face to face time is either your greatest asset or liability - long term results will depend on how much you are willing and able to invest. 

[catzenmouse]

I'm the head of my house and I know this is so because my Russian wife told me.

LOL! Mat you are truly on the path to OMB status! 

[KenC]

AJ,
I do something similar with Lena all the time!  It is usually when we are shopping; something I hate to do anyway.  Lena has a bad habit of getting too wrapped up in her goal to find something or get some where and forgets that I am with her.  When she gets too far ahead, I stop and wait for her to notice I am not with her.  Usually it only takes a little bit of time and then she walks back and apologizes.  But there have been cases when I will just go my own way from there too.  Going into stores I want to see or even going back to the car.  With cell phones, how lost can you really be?

I will disagree with you though, AJ, because to me it is all about being the man.  Or at least demanding that you are accounted for.   It all centers around your own self worth IMO.  I know you well enough to know you spoil the heck out of your wife as do I.  But we do not do so at the expense of selling ourselves short either.  Too many men in Maxx's stories have no sense of self worth.  If you don't think you deserve the respect yourself, who else is going to give it to you?
KenC

[I/O]

LOL! Mat you are truly on the path to OMB status! 

Nah...took the bypass, sad news is, there's nothing on the other side.

I/O

[Jumper]

KenC-
 LMAO!! ,,
yes i have been a few  times on those  "quest for the holy grail" type shopping trips,,
and similarly  -just stopped or gone into shops.-
As you mentioned with a cell , how out of contact can you be?
like lena , tanya will  laugh and apologize about it anymore..
(familiarity with how i am,,and being in an established marriage is different than the dating stage lol)

at the time, it difinantly wasnt funny that first incident though, it was more to do with her words and attitude ,than anything else..
(and no i was difinantly not answering my cell , was not going to ,and had every a intention of just leaving the country... likely wuth a few new phone numbers in hand.. )

we went thru a couple of those earlier serious type situations,
I tend to be hard to upset,,but if you do push my buttons ,youll get a huge overreaction...lol
She finally determined to herself i wasnt  normal ,and possibly completely crazy...but still married me anyway..lol

as far as spoiling my wife,there is no doubt that i'm guilty as charged.
(to the best of my abilty)
as far as having pretty dang clear boundries on respect in our relationship  ,just as guilty.


i agree with you in that  i do think it is about both people setting personal boundries of what they condsider good fundamental mutual respect.
if you dont have that..then there is very little foundation to build a relationship on in
the first place?

If you dont repect yourself,you will find very few RW who will.
most RW "know their value " well. and have a heaping helping of self esteem and self respect.
To me thats a good thing,
but i do think western men tend to not be as up front about their own.
and in that culture they need to.

it is  somewhat a cultural thing?
A RW by her social and cultural enviroment will tend to have a pretty stong sense of "self" ,pretty hard to deal with a normal RM without it?
 
just a thought?



roykirk-
her having a fear or phobia of  flying was deal breaker with an AW?
and the only issue?
i guess i'm a pushover, that wouldnt have bothered me much,if it was the only issue.
weird yes,
dealbreaker if she was a great person.no.

[KenC]

KenC-
 LMAO!! ,,
yes i have been a few  times on those  "quest for the holy grail" type shopping trips,,
and similarly  -just stopped or gone into shops.-
As you mentioned with a cell , how out of contact can you be?
like lena , tanya will  laugh and apologize about it anymore..
(familiarity with how i am,,and being in an established marriage is different than the dating stage lol)

at the time, it difinantly wasnt funny that first incident though, it was more to do with her words and attitude ,than anything else..
(and no i was difinantly not answering my cell , was not going to ,and had every a intention of just leaving the country... likely wuth a few new phone numbers in hand.. )

we went thru a couple of those earlier serious type situations,
I tend to be hard to upset,,but if you do push my buttons ,youll get a huge overreaction...lol
She finally determined to herself i wasnt  normal ,and possibly completely crazy...but still married me anyway..lol

as far as spoiling my wife,there is no doubt that i'm guilty as charged.
(to the best of my abilty)
as far as having pretty dang clear boundries on respect in our relationship  ,just as guilty.


i agree with you in that  i do think it is about both people setting personal boundries of what they condsider good fundamental mutual respect.
if you dont have that..then there is very little foundation to build a relationship on in
the first place?

If you dont repect yourself,you will find very few RW who will.
most RW "know their value " well. and have a heaping helping of self esteem and self respect.
To me thats a good thing,
but i do think western men tend to not be as up front about their own.
and in that culture they need to.

it is  somewhat a cultural thing?
A RW by her social and cultural enviroment will tend to have a pretty stong sense of "self" ,pretty hard to deal with a normal RM without it?
 
just a thought?

AJ,
Lena had always used the phrase that she "knew her own price" meaning that she knew her value.  And what is good for the goose is also good for the gander.  Too many guys in this process do not understand their own value.  Or at least grossly under estimate it.

During the development of the relationship and even after marriage, the couple is jockey-ing for positions, "setting the boundaries" as you say.  I think this is where Maxx's guys fail miserably.  They give in to everything with no regard to their own well being.  They trade their own self worth for the supposed happiness of their spouse.  If they had the balls to just say "No" in the beginning when their partner crossed the line, they would have never found themselves in the terrible positions they ended up with.  RW are strong and they will test you every step of the way.  Some of us pass the tests and some us do not.  What they (Maxx's guys) seem to confuse is being a "nice guy" should have nothing to do with abandoning your self worth.  If you have to trade your manhood in order to make your woman happy, she isn't worth being with.
KenC

[catzenmouse]

What they (Maxx's guys) seem to confuse is being a "nice guy" should have nothing to do with abandoning your self worth.  If you have to trade your manhood in order to make your woman happy, she isn't worth being with.

BINGO!

 Probably why (being the first class pr!ck that I am, according to my ex's) I booted the second to last one out of my house and walked away from the last AW's that I was in relationships with. After they felt comfortable enough in the relationship they decided that I needed fixing or changing. Sorry girls, I like being broken just like I am and if I was good enough to get with in the first place then I'm good enough as I am. Don't like that... well then, See Ya Later!