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Author Topic: Prospects for Crimea return  (Read 42058 times)

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Offline Boethius

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Re: Prospects for Crimea return
« Reply #50 on: July 27, 2016, 07:45:38 PM »
Trump states he would look at recognizing Crimea as Russian territory and ending sanctions -


http://www.politico.eu/article/donald-trump-to-look-at-recognizing-crimea-as-russian-territory-lifting-sanctions-putin/
After the fall of communism, the biggest mistake Boris Yeltsin's regime made was not to disband the KGB altogether. Instead it changed its name to the FSB and, to many observers, morphed into a gangster organisation, eventually headed by master criminal Vladimir Putin. - Gerard Batten

Offline fathertime

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Re: Prospects for Crimea return
« Reply #51 on: July 27, 2016, 08:18:11 PM »
Trump states he would look at recognizing Crimea as Russian territory and ending sanctions -


http://www.politico.eu/article/donald-trump-to-look-at-recognizing-crimea-as-russian-territory-lifting-sanctions-putin/


The fact that Trump is likely going to take the position I held, won't stop the 'patriotic' Trump voters from voting for him!  They will contort however much is necessary to manufacture some justification!   :popcorn:


Ironically, I don't think Hillary would be so lax with Russia.


Fathertime! 
I just happened to be browsing about the internet....

Offline BillyB

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Re: Prospects for Crimea return
« Reply #52 on: July 27, 2016, 08:54:04 PM »

Just talked to my wife and MIL an hour ago on this issue after they freaked that Trump is going to recognize Crimea as Russian territory. I told them don't believe everything journalists write. I googled what Trump said and after asked by someone if he recognizes Crimea to be Russia's and if he'll lift the sanctions, Trump replied he'd be looking into that. That is not a yes or no answer. We all know Trump is not up to speed on foreign policy or immigration so when he doesn't know an answer, he'll say he'll look into that. That's better than shooting his mouth off and giving an answer to something he hasn't got a clue about. Now if you guys were running for president and someone asked you about if the Zimbo tribes rights to greater autonomy in Cameroon is valid, would you reply "yes" or "no"? Or would you give an honest answer of concern over the issue by saying "I'm going to look into that."?

I don't like Trump as a presidential candidate. I've beaten him up on this forum many times over things he's said, how he says things, and some of his ideas but it's unethical reporting when journalists start writing articles implying Trump supports something when it's not true.
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Offline Muzh

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Re: Prospects for Crimea return
« Reply #53 on: July 28, 2016, 12:55:08 PM »

The fact that Trump is likely going to take the position I held, won't stop the 'patriotic' Trump voters from voting for him!  They will contort however much is necessary to manufacture some justification!   :popcorn:


Ironically, I don't think Hillary would be so lax with Russia.


Fathertime!


 :ROFL:


I bet you are really enjoying this.  ;D
To argue with a man who has renounced the use and authority of reason, and whose philosophy consists in holding humanity in contempt, is like administering medicine to the dead. Thomas Paine - The American Crisis 1776-1783

Offline jone

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Re: Prospects for Crimea return
« Reply #54 on: July 28, 2016, 01:38:20 PM »
It is funny.
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Offline Anotherkiwi

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Re: Prospects for Crimea return
« Reply #55 on: July 28, 2016, 06:24:29 PM »
What I like best about that "article" is this comment afterwards from some guy called Robert:

Oh come on! Allow me to translate his answer to the Crimea question: “I have no idea who Crimea is or what you are talking about.”


That sums it up.

Offline BC

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Re: Prospects for Crimea return
« Reply #56 on: July 29, 2016, 09:23:06 AM »
It is interesting that Clinton will likely show a much harder stance on Crimea and Donbass than Trump.  I bet that was quite unexpected, especially for the GOP.  I am finding the GOP is being very quiet at the moment.. or am I missing something?  Maybe just 'quiet before the storm' if by chance he is elected and if not back to business as usual bashing Putin and calling for more sanctions?

Offline jone

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Re: Prospects for Crimea return
« Reply #57 on: July 29, 2016, 09:53:49 AM »
I fully subscribe that Clinton would retain the current position of the US, or strengthen it, concerning Ukraine.  But I don't think that anyone knows what Trump would do if he were POTUS.  That's the ongoing problem. 

We really don't have a clue.
Kissing girls is a goodness.  It beats the hell out of card games.  - Robert Heinlein

Offline ML

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Re: Prospects for Crimea return
« Reply #58 on: July 29, 2016, 10:07:31 AM »
We really don't have a clue.

I have a clue . . . but I'm not telling.
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Offline Gator

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Re: Prospects for Crimea return
« Reply #59 on: July 29, 2016, 10:42:18 AM »
Sadly, most of the world does not care about the Russian seizure of Crimea. 

The world is taking a slow, multi-year approach to stopping something as dangerous as ISIS, so why up the stakes in Crimea.   After 9-11, how long did it take to run OBL out of Afghanistan into an underground rathole.

If Trump is elected and relaxes the stance against Russia, don't you believe Russia would have to concede something very important.


Offline BC

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Re: Prospects for Crimea return
« Reply #60 on: July 29, 2016, 11:41:13 AM »
If Trump is elected and relaxes the stance against Russia, don't you believe Russia would have to concede something very important.

Absolutely not Crimea.. Putin has said discussion over, it's not a topic that will be put on the table.

Offline mendeleyev

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Re: Prospects for Crimea return
« Reply #61 on: September 07, 2016, 12:09:12 PM »
For several months (yes, MONTHS) leading up to the annexation of Crimea, the Russian Security Council had authorized and paid for polling to be done locally in Crimea on how voters would react to the idea of leaving Ukraine.

Even with a ballot that had no option of remaining within Ukraine, and even though many citizens who came to vote with Ukrainian passports were turned away at the polling stations, the vote was not quite what Moscow had hoped.

In a classic case of stupidity one could only imagine back in Soviet times, the local election officials at first reported that the vote to leave Ukraine and join Russia won by a 128% majority in Sevastopol. It didn't take long for Moscow to tell the idiots in Sevastopol that reporting a 128% majority was monumentally retarded.

More recently however, the President's (Russia) Council on Civil Society and Human Rights in Moscow made a similar mistake. They reported the actual voting figures. Oops. It went up online, and was taken down soon thereafter, but not before a couple of TV reporters made screenshots.

The world was told during the invasion of Crimea that the turnout was 83% of registered voters, with 97% of votes cast in favour of annexation.

The numbers revealed by the official President's Human Right Council are much different. Citing Russian Central Election Commission figures (don't you think it a bit odd that the Russian CEC conducted the voting in what was at the time another nation?) the turnout of registered voters was just over 40%. Of those voters, Sevastopol led the way with 55 percent voting for annexation. When you take Crimea as a whole, not just Sevastopol, the number of Crimean's who voted for annexation was 22.5 percent.
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Offline ML

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Re: Prospects for Crimea return
« Reply #62 on: September 07, 2016, 12:43:27 PM »
WOW Mendy, that is really interesting.

Not that it will make any difference for Russians.

The best we can hope for is that it will make a difference to people in other countries of the world, and for leaders like Trump who have said something like "well they had a vote and wanted to join Russia."
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Offline Gator

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Re: Prospects for Crimea return
« Reply #63 on: September 07, 2016, 12:55:20 PM »
When you take Crimea as a whole, not just Sevastopol, the number of Crimean's who voted for annexation was 22.5 percent.


!!!!!

Remind me again, wasn't there only two choices on the ballot.  What were exact choices? 

And only a 40% turnout. 

Since the election and annexation, have many people moved from Crimea? 

Offline mendeleyev

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Re: Prospects for Crimea return
« Reply #64 on: September 07, 2016, 01:05:10 PM »
The turnout may have been much higher, but most voters who came with Ukrainian passports were turned away.

Gator, the two options were:

- Should Crimea leave Ukraine and join the Russian Federation as a member of the federation?


- Should Crimea leave Ukraine and become a semi-independent protectorate territory of the Russian Federation?
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Offline JayH

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Re: Prospects for Crimea return
« Reply #65 on: September 07, 2016, 04:09:07 PM »
For several months (yes, MONTHS) leading up to the annexation of Crimea, the Russian Security Council had authorized and paid for polling to be done locally in Crimea on how voters would react to the idea of leaving Ukraine.

Even with a ballot that had no option of remaining within Ukraine, and even though many citizens who came to vote with Ukrainian passports were turned away at the polling stations, the vote was not quite what Moscow had hoped.

In a classic case of stupidity one could only imagine back in Soviet times, the local election officials at first reported that the vote to leave Ukraine and join Russia won by a 128% majority in Sevastopol. It didn't take long for Moscow to tell the idiots in Sevastopol that reporting a 128% majority was monumentally retarded.

More recently however, the President's (Russia) Council on Civil Society and Human Rights in Moscow made a similar mistake. They reported the actual voting figures. Oops. It went up online, and was taken down soon thereafter, but not before a couple of TV reporters made screenshots.

The world was told during the invasion of Crimea that the turnout was 83% of registered voters, with 97% of votes cast in favour of annexation.

The numbers revealed by the official President's Human Right Council are much different. Citing Russian Central Election Commission figures (don't you think it a bit odd that the Russian CEC conducted the voting in what was at the time another nation?) the turnout of registered voters was just over 40%. Of those voters, Sevastopol led the way with 55 percent voting for annexation. When you take Crimea as a whole, not just Sevastopol, the number of Crimean's who voted for annexation was 22.5 percent.

Not wishing to pump my own tyres to much--BUT-- I have said all along that the numbers people generally quoted (people here and in media generally)  were wildly overestimating support for Russia etc.-both on Crimea and eastern Ukraine.
My sources on many issues on attitudes,beliefs,preferences etc of Ukrainians have proved to be remarkably accurate  in retrospect.This was not guesswork--but based on real surveying and the interpretation of data being done concurrently.Crimea had been an area of specific interest in 2013..  Often -those conclusions were quite different to others.What I have  heard and seen personally and anecdotally has supported the information I SAW first hand.
   One of the major problems facing the truth is the mountain and sheer volume of propaganda perpetrated by the Kremlin and it's troll army-- throw so much stuff out there it equals confusion and scepticism about any in formations accuracy.

btw--one area did report 133% of voters attendance !!
SLAVA UKRAYINI  ! HEROYAM SLAVA!!!!
Слава Украине! Слава героям слава!Слава Україні! Слава героям!
 translated as: Glory to Ukraine! Glory to the heroes!!!  is a Ukrainian greeting slogan being used now all over Ukraine to signify support for a free independent Ukraine

Offline tfcrew

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Re: Prospects for Crimea return
« Reply #66 on: September 07, 2016, 05:03:07 PM »
Quote
Russia says starts planned large-scale war games involving Crimea
    •    The Russian Defence Ministry said on Monday a long-planned major military exercise involving annexed Crimea and Russia's Black Sea and Caspian fleets had got underway, and that 12,500 troops would take part.The exercise -- called Caucasus 2016 -- follows a period of heightened tension between Russia and Ukraine after Moscow accused Kiev of sending saboteurs into the peninsula to carry out a series of bombings. Kiev has flatly denied that. Russia conducted a series of nationwide spot combat readiness checks in the run-up to the exercise and practiced swiftly moving military hardware and troops to Crimea as part of a logistics exercise last month.
    http://www.reuters.com/article/us-ukraine-crisis-wargames-idUSKCN11B10D
    ~There is no one more blind than those who refuse to see and none more deaf as those who will not listen~
    ~Think about the intelligence of the average person and then realize that half of the people are even more stupid than that~

    Offline Gator

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    Re: Prospects for Crimea return
    « Reply #67 on: September 07, 2016, 05:15:48 PM »
    MOVED TO MENDY'S NEW THREAD
    « Last Edit: September 07, 2016, 05:53:32 PM by Gator »

    Offline JayH

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    The history of the Crimean vatushki, who was waiting for the Russian world
    « Reply #68 on: September 15, 2016, 12:55:01 AM »
    The reality of the Russian invasion of Ukraine and the comments of those on the Crimea who have to live with it.




    The history of the Crimean vatushki, who was waiting for the Russian world


    Meet - this Lidia Ivanovna, my neighbor in Simferopol apartment. In 2014, when Russia captured the Crimea, Lidia Ivanovna was very happy and waiting for the Russian pension, although have not been stricken, because they had a cottage near Gurzuf, which is rented to tourists and is not bad at this earned. In addition she received a pension Ukrainian and quite high (about 2000 hryvnia), which made it possible not only to live in grand style, but also help children at Ukrainian prices. My warnings that anything good will not bring us Russian Lidia Ivanovna did not want to listen, what is more, it turned out that I was now suddenly become a Nazi, which prevents her children to live a normal life

    She says, I hear that with tears, and I was like honey to the soul, because it is due to such a *, Lydia Ivanovna me and thousands of others had to leave their home. It is because of these shovels grandmothers broken heap of lives and I have absolutely * at how hard it is now, let him now devouring his Russian world and choke.
     http://www.amn.com.ua/blogy/chytajte-ne-pozhaleete-ystoryya-krymskoj-vatushky-kotoraya-zhdala-russkyj-myr/



    « Last Edit: September 15, 2016, 12:59:15 AM by JayH »
    SLAVA UKRAYINI  ! HEROYAM SLAVA!!!!
    Слава Украине! Слава героям слава!Слава Україні! Слава героям!
     translated as: Glory to Ukraine! Glory to the heroes!!!  is a Ukrainian greeting slogan being used now all over Ukraine to signify support for a free independent Ukraine

    Offline JayH

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    Prospects for Crimea return
    « Reply #69 on: February 06, 2017, 06:02:26 PM »

    Highly likely that the the return of Crimea to Ukraine that Putin will not survive as czar.

    Crimea Tatar leader Dzhemilev predicts Russia's withdrawal from Crimea

    The Ukrainian president's envoy to the Crimean Tatar people and Crimean Tatar leader, Ukrainian MP Mustafa Dzhemilev says that Russia is paying a high price for maintaining occupied Crimea, and it is likely that the Kremlin may withdraw from the peninsula after some time.

    Read more on UNIAN: http://www.unian.info/politics/1762077-crimea-tatar-leader-dzhemilev-predicts-russias-withdrawal-from-crimea.html

    "Of course, it costs a lot to Russia, but I think that [Russian President Vladimir] Putin, having embarked on this adventure, counted on the fact that he would be able to establish the regime in Kyiv, similar to that of [he had with former Ukrainian president Viktor] Yanukovych who would have given consent to the occupation, but this did not happen," the politician said.
    Dzhemilev stressed that Putin used Crimea's annexation to propagate and encourage pseudo-patriotism. "Putin's withdrawal from Crimea will be similar to his political hara-kiri," the Crimean Tatar politician said.

    At the same time, he noted that the sanctions had produced a powerful blow to the Russian economy: "If this continues, and we hope that they will be strengthened, but even if they remain at the current level, the collapse of Russia is not far away."

     http://www.unian.info/politics/1762077-crimea-tatar-leader-dzhemilev-predicts-russias-withdrawal-from-crimea.html
    SLAVA UKRAYINI  ! HEROYAM SLAVA!!!!
    Слава Украине! Слава героям слава!Слава Україні! Слава героям!
     translated as: Glory to Ukraine! Glory to the heroes!!!  is a Ukrainian greeting slogan being used now all over Ukraine to signify support for a free independent Ukraine

    Offline msmob

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    Re: Prospects for Crimea return
    « Reply #70 on: February 08, 2017, 09:54:53 AM »
    Highly likely that the the return of Crimea to Ukraine that Putin will not survive as czar.

    Seriously, JayH - much as I abhor how the Kremlin used it's own troops to bring about a 'coup' in Crimea - whilst suggesting Yanu' should still be President of Crimea - you are dreaming..

    WHO / WHAT will persuade VVP to 'hand Crimea back' ? A Chinese invasion ( or threat of ) from the east ?!

    Not highly likely that Crimea will return to Ukraine - even if Putin and his bridges don't last..


    Offline tfcrew

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    Re: Prospects for Crimea return
    « Reply #71 on: February 09, 2017, 03:35:58 PM »


    Not highly likely that Crimea will return to Ukraine 

    Agree....& I believe it's the Ukrainian governments own fault.
     12 responses ...
    http://www.quora.com/Do-you-think-Crimea-will-ever-be-returned-to-Ukraine
    Now...
    Quote
    Anything is possible, but it is similar to asking if Mexico will regain control of Texas.
    Disagree..... Many parts of Texas are already controlled by Mexicans.
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    Offline msmob

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    Re: Prospects for Crimea return
    « Reply #72 on: February 09, 2017, 03:45:58 PM »

    I believe it's the Ukrainian governments own fault.


    Beam me up Scottie...

    Offline Boethius

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    Re: Prospects for Crimea return
    « Reply #73 on: February 10, 2017, 10:58:25 AM »
    Agree....& I believe it's the Ukrainian governments own fault.


    How so?


    According to local news, crime has exploded in Crimea. 
    After the fall of communism, the biggest mistake Boris Yeltsin's regime made was not to disband the KGB altogether. Instead it changed its name to the FSB and, to many observers, morphed into a gangster organisation, eventually headed by master criminal Vladimir Putin. - Gerard Batten

    Offline JayH

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    Re: Prospects for Crimea return
    « Reply #74 on: March 09, 2017, 11:02:53 PM »
    It is very hard to plan for so many unknown quantities in the future--especially when Russia is and will be attempting to cloud every issue.
    Three years have passed since the annexation of the Crimea. It is  sufficient time period to reflect on what has happened and to develop a policy for the future. But, alas, the country has problems with both these issues

    How Russia fills the Crimea with the “anti-ukrainian constituents”



    http://uifuture.org/en/post/russias-policy-in-crimea-demography-migration-and-immigration-research-expert_149
    SLAVA UKRAYINI  ! HEROYAM SLAVA!!!!
    Слава Украине! Слава героям слава!Слава Україні! Слава героям!
     translated as: Glory to Ukraine! Glory to the heroes!!!  is a Ukrainian greeting slogan being used now all over Ukraine to signify support for a free independent Ukraine

     

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