Water Quality in Ukraine

[krimster2]

anything Dnieper will have detectable radiation, however small exposure won't kill you, you'll just develop fish scales, and the worse is the sediment on the bottom and not the water
can't speak for today but 10 yr ago in this area you had to KNOW what areas were discharging raw sewage and stay away from it
in shallow water sewage heats up in the summer sun and you get a "bacterial bloom" people DO get sick from this

[Boethius]

anything Dnieper will have detectable radiation, however small exposure won't kill you, you'll just develop fish scales, and the worse is the sediment on the bottom and not the water
can't speak for today but 10 yr ago in this area you had to KNOW what areas were discharging raw sewage and stay away from it in shallow water sewage heats up in the summer sun and you get a "bacterial bloom" people DO get sick from this

There’s very little radiation in the Dnipro. There are a few hotspots created where radiated goods were loaded to be disposed of who knows where.

[krimster2]

I WISH that were true BO, since Chernobyl cesium-137 has decayed by about about 50%, but it keeps getting washed into the Dnipro from tributaries like the Desna to the north and others within the "Zona"

my own word for the Zone is "Chep" Chernobil Exclusionary Zone

natural soil erosion regularly provides new material into the river which is continually pushed down stream
I have a theory and have done a very simple test to show that there is what I call "nano-sediment" or very fine suspension of solids in the water that is radioactive
cesium-137 is not water soluble
so I filtered 20 liters of canal water through some homemade filter paper, this took almost all day!
got a reading, but don't remember at the moment what it was
I have hundreds of readings from the canal, and am working with someone at Rice University to publish this, it's not my field so could use some help
I haven't written a paper in a long time, exciting...

even though now there's no Dnipro water flowing through the NCC, previously deposited sediment still exists
so canal water is still carrying radiation

I did an online survey of this many years ago, unless it was taken down (haven't checked) info to confirm what I'm saying is out there
I have never tested beyond Crimea, so don't know about "up north" does it get better or worse the further south you go from Kyiv, I dunno

kyiv of course has its own problems, I'm sure you've noticed the distinctive color of kyiv tap water!!!
every school around the Dnipro should have water filters, it should be mandatory

[Boethius]

Downstream from Kyiv --decent size  fish are being caught ( & eaten!!) & there are certainly a lot of people fishing.

That has always been the case.  But in the 1990's, one could fish from anywhere within the city, as well.

There has been an effort to create beach facilities in cities on the Dnieper  -- with quite good facilities and nice sand beaches . Certainly many people are swimming in it.

There were beach facilities on the Dnipro under the Soviets, as well. 

I would like to see actual water test results in any given area of the Dnieper before swimming in it . It is an absolutely magnificent river.

Which is why Ukrainian poetry is replete with odds to the Dnipro.

[Boethius]

kyiv of course has its own problems, I'm sure you've noticed the distinctive color of kyiv tap water!!!
every school around the Dnipro should have water filters, it should be mandatory

Kyiv tap water is fine.  I've never noticed any issues with colour.  I drink it, as well.


A lot of people think it's unsafe because it uses chlorine as a bacterial agent, and chlorine is a carcinogen.  However, they are slowly changing that.

[krimster2]

i've only seen light yellowish tap water in kyiv
maybe different regions of kyiv have different water
I've only stayed in khreschatyk area
not as bad as Shanghai however

there's a photo here which matches what I saw in kyiv but it's in Russia

http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;pic=49

[Boethius]

It's probably pipes, rather than the water in Kyiv.


St. Petersburg always had water that colour, and no one ever drank it.  It is because the city is built on marshes.

[BdHvA]

i've only seen light yellowish tap water in kyiv
maybe different regions of kyiv have different water
I've only stayed in khreschatyk area
not as bad as Shanghai however

there's a photo here which matches what I saw in kyiv but it's in Russia

An image from Russia? proves nothing.

We live in Perchesk and zero problems with the water. Please stop with the lies.

[BillyB]

Pipes can rust on the inside and change the color of water. Galvanized pipes aren't rust proof forever.

[krimster2]

gozpedy!!

i used the picture ONLY as a reference AND stated the source
nothing at ALL of what I wrote was a lie
just a description of MY experience and nothing more

However, I can tell you've been in Russia too long, and that's NO LIE!!!

for your reading pleasure

http://wikitravel.org/en/Kyiv
"You should not drink the tap water (for reasons both chemical and microbial)"

http://www.local-life.com/kiev/guide/tips

http://kyiv.cool/ukraine-survival-guide/
Drinking the water in Ukraine won’t kill you, but it might give you unwanted stomach problems and if you drink too much you might spend more time on the toilet than anywhere else.


found from just 10 seconds on google
you can get 100s of these on google on this subject, is EVERYONE lying????


you know that charm school your mother sent you to when you were little?
she should get a refund

[Jumper]

Kyiv tap water is fine.  I've never noticed any issues with colour.  I drink it, as well.


A lot of people think it's unsafe because it uses chlorine as a bacterial agent, and chlorine is a carcinogen.  However, they are slowly changing that.

Just fyi stuff.
(I was a class A public water supply operator /superintendent at one  point)
Typically chlorine is used across the USA in public water supplies as a disinfectant.
Its regulated to under about 1.4mg/l as a that  is when it can best react with ammonia naturally present in some water sources at a level  to create chlorimines, which is the possible carcinogen,but also an effective secondary disinfectant.
Chlorine is  a primary and secondary disinfectant is needed in transit down the lines.choltine dissipates quickly to atmosphere,  oxygen etc.
A chlorine level under 1.4,
Has so  so small a level,   that it's been approved for decades as safe in the public water supply. By both state and federal EPA standards.
  Safe basically meaning an individuals odds of developing cancer,specifically  from drinking it a lifetime,  pale in comparison to just bring irradiated existing on the planet bombarded by our sun.
Also  the safety to the public if water isnt properly disinfected,and what that mortality rate would be is factored in.


A lot more is allowed by the FDA  in bottled water, same holds true for total coliforms.morecare allowed  in bottled water than in tap water.
So despite peoples common beliefs held mostly from good advertising campaigns, bottled water is not held to nearly the same safety standards as tap water.
 Granted most of it was tap water to begin with do hopefully the folks bottling it dont add any pathogens .



Filtering for a taste, doesnt make it more safe,is the basic deal.in fact it adds chance for true pathogen,even if remote.

I am curious what ukraine uses to disinfect  the public water supply.Europe often uses ozone, or UV light,as well as chlorine,or chlorine dioxade.
All of them are effective and have their positives and negatives.We used to work with FEMA,and  have to do exercises on the what ifs of loss of disinfection, tampering, or various outbreaks (as some are practically impossible to reasonably disinfect for)
and the procedures that would be put in place in various *hundreds of thousands dead*scenarios.
 
  I never visited a water (or waste water ) plant in the FSU ,but since I was in charge of several.large US ones for many years I was always very curious.
Actually was more curious on the wastewater side as that's infinitely more interesting biologically and more difficult to get the results you want.
Vaste majority of the work* to clean up cough* used* water,is done by organisms already present in the waste, and then nurtured by providing an environment they will flourish in.Seems counter productive unless you've studied it or been involved.
It was an interesting career for awhile,. (I wasnt . always just a jumper lol)
i also worked  with many other folks on/with inexpensive small systems for ,and in ,Africa were only availible media like gravel /sand were realistic,but could clean the water well enough to lower infant mortalities by huge percentages.
(Problem was/is ,if this occurs and lowers infant mortality for example over 5 year period. but food production doesnt increase accordingly , you only moved the average age of children's death up some) 

Lifes a journey, and some places I've been really taught me to appreciate the basics.

[BillyB]

(I was a class A public water supply operator /superintendent at one  point)
Typically chlorine is used across the USA in public water supplies as a disinfectant.
Its regulated to under about 1.4mg/l as a that  is when it can best react with ammonia naturally present in some water sources at a level  to create chlorimines, which is the possible carcinogen,but also an effective secondary disinfectant.
Chlorine is  a primary and secondary disinfectant is needed in transit down the lines.choltine dissipates quickly to atmosphere,  oxygen etc.
A chlorine level under 1.4,
Has so  so small a level,   that it's been approved for decades as safe in the public water supply. By both state and federal EPA standards.
  Safe basically meaning an individuals odds of developing cancer,specifically  from drinking it a lifetime,  pale in comparison to just bring irradiated existing on the planet bombarded by our sun.
Also  the safety to the public if water isnt properly disinfected,and what that mortality rate would be is factored in.

Jumper, you have fallen for the sales pitch the government gives us hook line and sinker. Working for them makes you guilty by association. They want us to drink the chlorine to alter our minds and make us more submissive. It'll also kill us faster in later years so we don't collect as much Social Security and they pocket it.

Sorry, I wanted to be a conspiracy theorist for a few seconds to see what it's like. You're right about the chlorine. It quickly dissipates. I use tap water in my fish tank but before I do, I let the water sit for 24 hrs to get rid of the chlorine before adding it to the fish tank. Disinfecting the water is very important and increases the mortality rate as you say. Lots of water come from rivers or lakes. It's not unusual to find dead decomposing animals on the screens of the intake pipes that deliver water to people.

[krimster2]

“It was an interesting career for awhile,. (I wasnt . always just a jumper lol)”

He: I work in wastewater treatment
She: No Shit
He: that’s right!!!

sorry...

well, because it’s Ukraine after all here’s the deal on  good ole chlorine
only one production source in Ukraine - but it is or was (who really knows anymore) owned by professional ass-hole Ihor Kolomoisky who decided to shut it down a couple of weeks ago either because he’s a professional ass-hole or it’s not making enough money (who really knows anymore about that either) right about now, most places are running out of liquid chlorine, no money to buy from us, of course

not sure what will happen next week, I’ve been more focused on the deployment of Ukrainian BM-27 rocket launchers east of Berdyansk in a location that makes no real sense and trying to get a scoop from sources,

they’re way, way out of range from the front, yet they are digging in
is it a picket line for a fallback position to protect southern Zaporizhia Oblast

Ukraine’s army has been leaking personnel, money issues
my prediction - full Russian onslaught would be in Odessa in 4 days from Donetsk
I think timing will involve spring Ukrainian election

[Bee Farmer]

They want us to drink the chlorine to alter our minds and make us more submissive.

You're confusing chlorine and fluoride.

Sodium Chloride improves the taste of many foods.  It's also known as table salt.

[krimster2]

to some people all halogens look alike

[Jumper]

You're confusing chlorine and fluoride.

Sodium Chloride improves the taste of many foods.  It's also known as table salt.

 Confusing chloride, chlorine, flouride or fluorine or just good old  h2o ?

Im sure you know Sodium chloride NaCl, isnt used as a disinfectant in public water supplies .
It can be used at times in the softening process though but it is only imparted to the drinking water in relation to the trade off in negative ion process of whatever minerals are removed.

chlorine gas Cl (or liquid form hydrogen chloride) is used as disinfectant in the USA.
Salt water wouldnt carry pathogens,or microorganisms  if soluble sodium choride worked as a disinfectant in that way, we would be in big trouble over all.

 


Krimster- wasterwater.. !
Like i said infinately more interesting ,at least in the lab lol but I worked in both.
I started on the pipeline gang, then into the lab then into plant operations ,then management/admin. Then left.
I did stir some trouble with a sign on my truck during the foreman on the pipe line phase *AJs new,and used, water* over the company logos.
It was on there about a year before some suits from France saw it and decided I needed to remove it, but hey you have got to have a slight sense of adventure in life.?I still managed to get regular promotions regardless.Not that I cared much either way.


Sorry ML.

[Jumper]

to some people all halogens look alike

I've forgotten far more than I remember, but
My racing number (off road bikes) is still 17
For many reasons.

[Boethius]

The better half tells me Kyiv's drinking water comes from more than one source.  In Pechersk and downtown, the source is the Desna, as it is for most regions of Kyiv.  Where he lived, it was from an underground source.


Waste is processed outside the city, at a plant on the Lybid River.

[krimster2]

WOW!! thanks for that info BO, cuz my babka came the Borzna/Nizhyn area the Desna is special to me
I can imagine women on the banks doing laundry
i'd be hiding in the bushes peeking
so many rivers there that all connect
so beautiful there
so sad
sigh...

[Boethius]

Oh, and no drinking water in Kyiv comes from the Dnipro. Too much industry on the river.

[krimster2]

I thought I heard from my last contact in Kyiv, who just recently left for Germany that Kyiv has either a new water treatment or new sewage treatment plant...
I wonder if that's making things better, also haven't searched on any news regarding the chlorine situation, afraid to learn... how many Ukrainians will this kill...

never thought I'd hear, "massive number of Ukrainians killed due to Chlorine"
mean the "absence" of Chlorine...

[Bee Farmer]

Confusing chloride, chlorine, flouride or fluorine or just good old  h2o ?

No confusion whatsoever.  Do you have difficulties with reading comprehension?  Did you not understand the statement my comment was in response to?

They want us to drink the chlorine to alter our minds and make us more submissive.

Do you see the problem with Billy's statement?  Chlorine does not alter your mind and make you submissive.  Fluoride will, which is why I asked Billy if he was confusing chlorine with fluoride.  Fluoride got shipped to American POW camps for Asians in WWII by the trainload.  After it was discovered that fluoride in water causes minor dental benefits for children under age 12, fluoride was added to virtually all municipal water sources in the US.  The official guise is for dental benefits, but it may be simply coincidence that fluoride turns people into sheeple.

I also pointed out that chlorine, in the form of sodium chloride is a regular staple in our diet, and implying that it was not causing our minds to be altered even with our regular ingestion.

Salt water wouldnt carry pathogens,or microorganisms  if soluble sodium choride worked as a disinfectant in that way, we would be in big trouble over all.

Brine can be used as a disinfectant, and salt curing/preserving meats is an old way of preventing bacterial growth.

[BillyB]

Do you see the problem with Billy's statement?  Chlorine does not alter your mind and make you submissive.  Fluoride will, which is why I asked Billy if he was confusing chlorine with fluoride. 

Bee Farmer, I said I wanted to be a conspiracy theorist for a few seconds, not for life. I use chlorine on every job when I hook up new pipes to the local district's water main. I fill the pipes up with water, let the chlorine burn which in turn kills everything in the pipes. Then I flush it before customers are able to access the water. I do not know what other countries do but I suspect they are hooking up pipes and not flushing or disinfecting them after installation. Pipes can be manufactured in dirty conditions and sit for awhile before use. While it sits, rats or other animals can get in them and do their business.

Fluoride is added into drinking water. Americans tend to have healthier teeth compared to those from other nations. Regular use of toothpaste helps too.

[mhr7]

Chlorine does not alter your mind and make you submissive.  Fluoride will, which is why I asked Billy if he was confusing chlorine with fluoride.  Fluoride got shipped to American POW camps for Asians in WWII by the trainload.  After it was discovered that fluoride in water causes minor dental benefits for children under age 12, fluoride was added to virtually all municipal water sources in the US.  The official guise is for dental benefits, but it may be simply coincidence that fluoride turns people into sheeple.

A little too much Alex Jones?

[krimster2]

I love the expression on his face
pretty much sums up who he is
can you imagine being someone who gets their would view from him?

Hillary's Pizza Parlor Sex Ring comes to mind
can you imagine being the cashier there when a wingnut comes in with an automatic weapon and shoots into the ceiling
"allright, I heard Hillary's got herself a teenage sex ring in the basement, I want the keys now"
my response would be, "sorry sir, that promotion's over with, but this week, we have a buy one and get the second for half off special"