My first experience through EM

[John Gaunt]

I don't understand how that is related to this Topic. Neither do you know much about me and you seem to already judge me based on my place of birth and the kind of social structures I should be following. I might have my personal reasons and I can't spend the time to justify how I don't fit the stereotypical definition of an Indian which you seem to have. And I don't live in India either.

If you have such questions, you could always sent a private message on the Forum.

It’s an open forum.
You seem overly sensitive about this subject. Whether you live in India or not is immaterial. There are plenty of Indians living outside India who still follow the diktats of the society they come from.
The question stands: why are you looking for a FSUW?
FSU society is not as progressive as other parts of the world.

[Bee Farmer]

So you discovered that the girl is an introvert and high in psychological trait Neuroticism, which is normally high for people who are low in social status or heavily stressed.  To be honest, you should expect some Neuroticism from anyone coming from the harsh former soviet countries.

On the 4th day, I told her how I felt about her and expressed interest. She seemed quite happy and said 1 week is not enough to get to know each other that well to decide, we should continue meeting more.

Do you not understand what she said?  She just met you.  She doesn't know you well enough to have serious feelings.  And if you have serious feelings for her after 4 days, it likely means that you are falling in love with a fantasy you have of her.

a topic related to smoking came up. I just expressed my views on passive smoking being unhealthy. She seem to get so triggered by it and started calling me selfish (at least like 10 times), judgemental and accused me of thinking that other people who smoke are second class citizens. She said I should stop driving a car also and let the environment become better because I have problem with people smoking. I couldn't seem to understand where was she getting at with this argument. Then she said, "You should go and live in a forest where there is fresh air". And I was shocked because I never said any of that. It was almost like her putting words in my mouth. And she made a big deal out of a small statement about passive smoking. Note: the girl herself doesn't smoke. So, I could not understand why she felt so offended. And neither did I say anything bad about people who smoke. And she went on and on for another 10 minutes, arguing in a stubborn way. Spoiled the entire moment.

 

So she has had bad experiences with someone over secondhand smoking, and she is projecting those experiences onto you.  You do know what projection is, don't you?

And at any time, did you tell her to stop?  Explain that although you dislike breathing secondhand smoke, it's no reason for her to throw a fit on you.  She may not realize that you thought she was throwing a fit.  (And sometimes when people are not accustomed to English, they word things slightly wrong and keep repeating things, hoping they are explaining things right.)

I politely explained her what put me off so much and she called me a sensitive person.

Well yes, you come across as being a Feeling type personality, which is not exactly considered to be a masculine quality.

And I thought to myself "This girl is way too stubborn to see how she behaved and admit that her behavior was rude."

Have you considered that because of cultural differences, she thought you were rude, and she is trying to smooth things over?

Then she pulled out her phone and started doing something on it while I was just sitting. I waited a little more and then decided to call it quits with her.

Oh, she has a life outside of you.  Heaven forbid.  Didn't she know it was her job to entertain you and coddle you every minute?  Didn't she know she was supposed to put her life on hold, just so she could cater to a stranger?

One of the things I noticed different in real life as compared to communication on Internet with her was the rudeness and cold attitude.

People from former soviet countries are known as coming across cold to people until they know you better.  What were you expecting?  Someone from Russia to have your culture?

And she said several times "I don't like when there are many people around". In a park one day when there were just 3 people, she refused to go in that direction to sit saying there are people. She was not social. I am not an extrovert myself and I don't have a very social life too.

Ok, so she was trying to build emotional intimacy.  There is nothing wrong with preferring to talk one on one, rather than hanging out in a group.  Ever consider she didn't want them to overhear her talking to you in English?

But I am a warm person and very communicative with people I like.

And you are expecting her to be just like you...

The other thing I learned was, during initial communication on Internet I asked her about her relationship with her family and who was she closest to. For almost everything, she had an "I don't care" look on her face. She almost always came across like an emotionally disconnected person.

You do realize that even if her father loves her dearly, there is a real possibility he has never told her he loves her.  Do you understand anything about FSU culture, or are you expecting to go find a FSU girl who will have the same culture and customs you do?

I think a lot think because they can get pregnant they can just be the way they are.

Trench, are you suggesting that women should pretend to be something they are not, just to get you to like them?  Seriously?

Imagnetic if you had kids with her, there would be a good chance of them inheriting her introverted and socially awkward ways, not nice for them.

Yeah, a 50% chance.  That's the odds of anyone having an introvert.  About 50% of people are extroverted, and 50% are introverted.  It has nothing to do with their parents though.  (Normally, one parent is introverted, and one is extroverted.)

Boys suffer worse since girls pass over them, in the UK they have many choices.

Trench, that is known as resentment, and you are blaming your mom for you being introverted.  Seriously?

My mother sounds a lot like the girl you met, she even made the 'all these people around' complaint once when dating my father once at a country park - yep there will be it's a public attraction, lol. My father perhaps more like yourself,  warm and social. My mother is a nice and decent person and I think the girl you met probably is. I think she is probably very genuine and doesn't realise that what you say and it's affect is important in social interactions. My father tried to educate my mother on this all his life - she never really got it. Introverted women tend to be very inflexible socially and what psychologists describe as 'low social monitors' - they don't pick up on visual or spoken social cues and reactions.

You've gone bonkers.  (and your father too.)  Introverted women can be very sociable creatures.  Large groups just drain their emotional energy quicker and they need alone time to recharge.  They just prefer to interact with smaller groups of people.  Whether or not someone is high or low in social monitoring has nothing to do with being introverted.

However, what confused me was this part.

So, my question is, why was this girl continuing the communication if she wasn't into me??

I just don't understand. If a girl is not interested and she has ample opportunities to stop the communication or say directly that she isn't interested, then why is she constantly meeting or asking to meet?

Surfer, the reason you are confused is because you fail to understand that while she was interested in getting to know you better, she was not getting attached to you at the same rate you were getting attached.

She sounds like she is interested in getting to know you better, but you are oblivious to cultural differences, and expect her to be exactly like you in all aspects.  To be honest, it reeks of immaturity.

More than this being a problem with introvert nature, I think it has to do with someone who is not able to easily form emotional attachment with others. She doesn't seem emotionally attached to her family either.

Just because someone is not as emotionally expressive as people in your culture does not mean they have difficulties forming emotional attachments with others.

However, when she suggested to meet in the evening today. I told her that let's find a place to just sit and talk since it will be my last evening here. And she replied, we can rather go to some interesting place since it's your last day. So, I told her that I'm more interested in communication with her rather than just walking around and seeing new places. Even yesterday, I went with her to some place and she didn't speak anything at all. So, I didn't want to meet again just to see some place and no communication.

And to this, her reply was quite rude. She said: "I don't understand what you are waiting from me? Anyway, thank you too for your time. I tried my best. If you wanted something else from me, then I cannot give you as I told you before".

$5 says she did not say, "I don't understand what you are waiting from me."  You just can't understand the pronunciation difference between waiting and wanting.

She prefers quiet places.  You like crowds and social interaction.  That is why she suggested going to an interesting place.  She was making a sacrifice to try to do something nice for you.  But you were too blind to see it.

That is why she said she didn't know what you wanted from her.  She tries to be extra nice to you, and nothing is good enough.  She understands that you are going to be unhappy no matter what she does, so it is pointless for her to continue with you, and you need to find someone else.

This girl was simply leading me on to nothing and I feel very upset.

No, she wasn't leading you on.  She was interested in getting to know you.  You were the problem.  You are selfish and immature.  You expect her to conform to your culture. When she tries to be nice, you don't appreciate it.

But I would at least have expected clarity from her instead of asking me to meet every day while not being serious about anything. And even when I told her how I feel, she had a golden opportunity to tell clearly if she was not interested. Instead at night after returning home, she told me how much she enjoyed and thanked me for the perfect walk and the evening. Then said she wants to see me again the next day.

You just met the girl, and she just met you.  Do you really think anyone believes that you had deep feelings for her?  Seriously?  You just met.  If I walked up to a woman I just met, and told her she was the most wonderful woman I had ever met, and I wanted to spend the rest of my life with her...do you think she will think I am serious?  Of course not.  So quit being a snowflake and expecting her to profess her undying love for you 4 days after meeting.  Be thankful she didn't laugh in your face, which is what a normal woman would do to a guy who shares his feelings after they just met.

The fact that she was still interested in spending more time together tells you she really liked you, and understands that you are trying to rush things.

Wouldn't a girl who is not interested say right away after a guy expresses his feelings that she doesn't feel the same way?

Not if they just met.

What kind of guy expresses feelings for a girl he just met a couple days ago?  Seriously.

Instead of expressing how happy she is and wants to meet again. And now, she is pretending as if there was nothing at all and I am unnecessarily expecting things from her.

You are unnecessarily expecting things from her.  You just met her.  You're making her feel like you're wanting to get married tomorrow, and she is wanting to go slower and get to know each other first.

Have you ever met a woman in the UK, and expressed your feelings for her on the 4th day after meeting, and expecting her to either tell you she loves you or tell you to bug off?

That was a red flag. When I questioned it she became defensive. Very weird indeed.

The red flag is you.  You're overeager to rush straight into marriage with someone you just met for the first time a couple days ago.

So, the sentence you highlighted, that clearly states she needs more time to talk and get to know each other. But in reality, when we meet, she doesn't want to talk but just see places.

Just doing things together and seeing places together is one way women build trust and emotional closeness with someone.  This is normal.  Are you not accustomed to spending time with girls?

All I know is, if she was interested, she would put in effort to communicate when we meet rather than act cold and distant, then come back home and again ask for a meeting.

Spending time together is a form of communication.  What you're really trying to say is, the girl has a problem because she is not doing things exactly how you want.

And yes, indeed, I am sure she would behave much better around someone whom she is really interested in.

She was behaving fine.  The problem is that you were not.

[Surfer]

So you discovered that the girl is an introvert and high in psychological trait Neuroticism, which is normally high for people who are low in social status or heavily stressed.  To be honest, you should expect some Neuroticism from anyone coming from the harsh former soviet countries.

Do you not understand what she said?  She just met you.  She doesn't know you well enough to have serious feelings.  And if you have serious feelings for her after 4 days, it likely means that you are falling in love with a fantasy you have of her.
 

So she has had bad experiences with someone over secondhand smoking, and she is projecting those experiences onto you.  You do know what projection is, don't you?

And at any time, did you tell her to stop?  Explain that although you dislike breathing secondhand smoke, it's no reason for her to throw a fit on you.  She may not realize that you thought she was throwing a fit.  (And sometimes when people are not accustomed to English, they word things slightly wrong and keep repeating things, hoping they are explaining things right.)

Well yes, you come across as being a Feeling type personality, which is not exactly considered to be a masculine quality.

Have you considered that because of cultural differences, she thought you were rude, and she is trying to smooth things over?

Oh, she has a life outside of you.  Heaven forbid.  Didn't she know it was her job to entertain you and coddle you every minute?  Didn't she know she was supposed to put her life on hold, just so she could cater to a stranger?

People from former soviet countries are known as coming across cold to people until they know you better.  What were you expecting?  Someone from Russia to have your culture?

Ok, so she was trying to build emotional intimacy.  There is nothing wrong with preferring to talk one on one, rather than hanging out in a group.  Ever consider she didn't want them to overhear her talking to you in English?

And you are expecting her to be just like you...

You do realize that even if her father loves her dearly, there is a real possibility he has never told her he loves her.  Do you understand anything about FSU culture, or are you expecting to go find a FSU girl who will have the same culture and customs you do?

Trench, are you suggesting that women should pretend to be something they are not, just to get you to like them?  Seriously?

Yeah, a 50% chance.  That's the odds of anyone having an introvert.  About 50% of people are extroverted, and 50% are introverted.  It has nothing to do with their parents though.  (Normally, one parent is introverted, and one is extroverted.)

Trench, that is known as resentment, and you are blaming your mom for you being introverted.  Seriously?

You've gone bonkers.  (and your father too.)  Introverted women can be very sociable creatures.  Large groups just drain their emotional energy quicker and they need alone time to recharge.  They just prefer to interact with smaller groups of people.  Whether or not someone is high or low in social monitoring has nothing to do with being introverted.

Surfer, the reason you are confused is because you fail to understand that while she was interested in getting to know you better, she was not getting attached to you at the same rate you were getting attached.

She sounds like she is interested in getting to know you better, but you are oblivious to cultural differences, and expect her to be exactly like you in all aspects.  To be honest, it reeks of immaturity.

Just because someone is not as emotionally expressive as people in your culture does not mean they have difficulties forming emotional attachments with others.

$5 says she did not say, "I don't understand what you are waiting from me."  You just can't understand the pronunciation difference between waiting and wanting.

She prefers quiet places.  You like crowds and social interaction.  That is why she suggested going to an interesting place.  She was making a sacrifice to try to do something nice for you.  But you were too blind to see it.

That is why she said she didn't know what you wanted from her.  She tries to be extra nice to you, and nothing is good enough.  She understands that you are going to be unhappy no matter what she does, so it is pointless for her to continue with you, and you need to find someone else.

No, she wasn't leading you on.  She was interested in getting to know you.  You were the problem.  You are selfish and immature.  You expect her to conform to your culture. When she tries to be nice, you don't appreciate it.

You just met the girl, and she just met you.  Do you really think anyone believes that you had deep feelings for her?  Seriously?  You just met.  If I walked up to a woman I just met, and told her she was the most wonderful woman I had ever met, and I wanted to spend the rest of my life with her...do you think she will think I am serious?  Of course not.  So quit being a snowflake and expecting her to profess her undying love for you 4 days after meeting.  Be thankful she didn't laugh in your face, which is what a normal woman would do to a guy who shares his feelings after they just met.

The fact that she was still interested in spending more time together tells you she really liked you, and understands that you are trying to rush things.

Not if they just met.

What kind of guy expresses feelings for a girl he just met a couple days ago?  Seriously.

You are unnecessarily expecting things from her.  You just met her.  You're making her feel like you're wanting to get married tomorrow, and she is wanting to go slower and get to know each other first.

Have you ever met a woman in the UK, and expressed your feelings for her on the 4th day after meeting, and expecting her to either tell you she loves you or tell you to bug off?

The red flag is you.  You're overeager to rush straight into marriage with someone you just met for the first time a couple days ago.

Just doing things together and seeing places together is one way women build trust and emotional closeness with someone.  This is normal.  Are you not accustomed to spending time with girls?

Spending time together is a form of communication.  What you're really trying to say is, the girl has a problem because she is not doing things exactly how you want.

She was behaving fine.  The problem is that you were not.

I would not bother responding to your post. It was a fun read though. Tells a lot about your way of thinking and the assumptions you make. How you twist others words and take things out of context. Anyway, feel free to prepare another vicious write up

Those who want to understand will understand.

Just so that you know, I probably know way more about Russia and Russian culture than you This includes, having a large group of Russian friends and speaking Russian almost at advanced level.

Now go ahead, Judge

[Surfer]

Thanks for posting your trip Surfer. This girl just wasn't the one. At least you came to this conclusion right away and you were only there for 1 week. Chalk it up as a learning experience and move forward. As Billy said, visit the girls who show their excitement at seeing you on Skype and are always earger to talk to you.
Good luck

Thanks, agreed. I will take it as a learning and valuable experience

[ML]

Surfer, thanks for posting.  Always helpful to others to see some of the procedures and outcomes of others.

I could be crass and point out that many such wasted trips are to be expected when following the WOVO approach . . . but I wouldn't do that.

[GenMish]

Hi Surfer,
I know Bee Farmer wasn't eloquent in the response, but I feel Bee Farmer was on target and  advice that will be useful if you continue pursuing FSUW. Respect has tremendous value, and you must show these ladies respect. When you are there you are in her territory, she has a plan in her mind how this visit should go. Don't worry, she will do the same x10 if you bring her home to be yours

I don't know your whole background, but I noticed someone brought up an Indian heritage? If so, your job is twice as hard because of the stereotype that Indian men don't respect women in the workplace

You now have been to Moscow, cant you see all the effort that these women put into themselves? not just their appearance, but education and arts, and they do this on a fraction of what US women earn. They are worthy of respect. I don't know if you are American, but women here earning 75k/yr too often dress and behave like they are earn 12k/yr.... Russian women earning 12k/yr dress act like like a million bucks

[2tallbill]

Thanks once again to everyone who was supportive on this Forum.

Surfer, I'm sorry things didn't work out. I wouldn't spend too much time
trying to identify why. There are 104 generally accepted theories that
have been developed by men about women. Unfortunately they are all
wrong.

I would also advise having a backup plan next time.

[SteveInBoston]

Surfer,

One thing that I see is there is a compatibility issue.  5 weeks is a bit too soon to discover each other's personalities?  Kudos for flying out there to meet her, but maybe it might have been better to communicate a bit more.

When I started my search, I chatted with several women.  I really liked one woman from Tomsk, Russia.  Our online conversations were great initially, but I noticed some issues after about a month or month-and-a-half.  She had mood swings - very pleasant in the morning (her time), but introspective and negative in the evening.  At first it was minor, but then it got to a point where she would get upset and angry that I didn't remove my online dating profile.  I made plans to visit her soon, and even applied for and received a 3yr visa.  But I cancelled the trip and broke things off with her.

The above case is extreme - someone who I found out was irrationally jealous (I never met in person).  But I discovered it by taking some time to get to know her first before visiting.

My soon-to-be-wife was one of about 6 women I met online and started chatting off the dating site.  Communicating with multiple women really helped me - I was able to notice personality differences and spot she was someone special.


Anyway, she could be as you described - a puzzling woman who doesn't really seem into you, or as Bee Farmer described - a totally rational and normal woman dealing with a too-sensitive guy, or someone in-between.   Whatever the case, it seems she is not a match.

I would advise not to focus on just one person next time.  Develop some rapport with a few women and find out if any are potential matches.  You may be lucky and have the problem that all of them are matches.  Heh.

Take care.

[jone]

The simple fact is that, for whatever reason, this woman is not compatible with you.  The big test every couple goes through is chemistry.  If there is not a certain chemistry, you can try to make it work.  But if chemistry is there you will feel it.  It is almost magic. 

If a Russian (FSU) woman is in to you, you will know to the ends of your toes.  They are strong in their attachments and even while arguing with you, will make you know that YOU are their man.  If this is not present, it is not something that can be created.

Good luck with your next effort.  I strongly doubt that this woman will be able to be happy.  Could be she is an alcoholic.

[ML]

If a Russian (FSU) woman is in to you, you will know to the ends of your toes.  They are strong in their attachments and even while arguing with you, will make you know that YOU are their man.

Jon, a milder version of  this is often written here.  The mild version may have some validity.

But I think that your version  is overstated.

After all, divorce rate is 50% in FSU.

[Trenchcoat]

I think what Steve has to say is important, I am finding in communicating with just a few women at present differences in behaviour - some have the 'its my way or the highway' attitude that seems common of many FSW including the one you net Surfer, others have slow communication - due to work, other guys, lack of interest, etc. So I think at least a WMWO is not a bad idea.

I fast tiring of the girl to conversation is the classic sign of an introvert. She is probably a the more extreme end. I think she probably wanted you to go to a place to use the 'place' as a crutch both for conversation and rest from conversation, distraction even. If you talked insecently Surfer you probably tired her out quick, lol To say to her that you wanted to focus on just conversation in your final evening probably freaked her out as she knew she would likely struggle. I think she is probably too damaged goods best avoided.

I also think she was not that into you but keeping you as a possibility of having a committed relationship with because essentially there was no one else. I think take this as an opportunity to be free to look for someone else

[jone]

Jon, a milder version of  this is often written here.  The mild version may have some validity.

But I think that your version  is overstated.

After all, divorce rate is 50% in FSU.

Yeah.  I know the divorce rate.  But when the bloom is still on the rose, there is intent on the part of the woman that you will know and feel and it is different than here in the West.

[Surfer]

Surfer, thanks for posting.  Always helpful to others to see some of the procedures and outcomes of others.

I could be crass and point out that many such wasted trips are to be expected when following the WOVO approach . . . but I wouldn't do that.

Thanks ML. I hope my experience and story would be helpful for someone else in future. I am all about sharing information and experiences and helping other members who need help.

[Surfer]

Surfer,

One thing that I see is there is a compatibility issue.  5 weeks is a bit too soon to discover each other's personalities?  Kudos for flying out there to meet her, but maybe it might have been better to communicate a bit more.

When I started my search, I chatted with several women.  I really liked one woman from Tomsk, Russia.  Our online conversations were great initially, but I noticed some issues after about a month or month-and-a-half.  She had mood swings - very pleasant in the morning (her time), but introspective and negative in the evening.  At first it was minor, but then it got to a point where she would get upset and angry that I didn't remove my online dating profile.  I made plans to visit her soon, and even applied for and received a 3yr visa.  But I cancelled the trip and broke things off with her.

The above case is extreme - someone who I found out was irrationally jealous (I never met in person).  But I discovered it by taking some time to get to know her first before visiting.

My soon-to-be-wife was one of about 6 women I met online and started chatting off the dating site.  Communicating with multiple women really helped me - I was able to notice personality differences and spot she was someone special.


Anyway, she could be as you described - a puzzling woman who doesn't really seem into you, or as Bee Farmer described - a totally rational and normal woman dealing with a too-sensitive guy, or someone in-between.   Whatever the case, it seems she is not a match.

I would advise not to focus on just one person next time.  Develop some rapport with a few women and find out if any are potential matches.  You may be lucky and have the problem that all of them are matches.  Heh.

Take care.

I agree with you that it is important to have more communication to understand the compatibility. I felt after about 5 weeks of communication that if I see a possibility, then I should meet her in real life since I was not actively dating any other girl. I did not arrive with any expectations that she will be the one. I knew that it could go either way.

About the views of "Bee Farmer", they were extremely judgemental, over-rationalizing the behavior of the girl and he also seemed to be on a mission to accuse me for everything. He even forgot in his post that he wrote several things which were contradicting the information I gave in original post.

I was very patient with this girl, I never rushed her or pushed her for anything. Always let her know how much I enjoyed spending the time with her. She wanted communication and I went at her pace. She even began to get more comfortable by the 3rd day and began to open up. I never rushed her into anything. And even the fact that I told her I like her. It wasn't like I told her that marry me the next day. Telling a girl that you like her and enjoy spending time with her and asking her to express undying love for you and marry you, these are two completely different things. So, "Bee Farmer" was clearly blowing my post out of proportion by misinterpreting and even twisting the words or adding his own words.

I do not claim to be any expert and that's why I am on this Forum to learn from the more experienced members. However, I expect that some members would read and genuinely help rather than be on a mission to prove others wrong or try to feed their ego or run other down for no reason.

And regarding this girl preferring quiet places. I mentioned that I am an introvert myself and not very social. In fact, this is something both I and this girl had in common. We even laughed about it in the initial days. After meeting, I realized that she was on the extreme end of being an introvert and she absolutely couldn't tolerate people around. I quickly adjusted to her and always asked her if she was feeling comfortable in the surroundings. Even in the cafes and restaurants, I always allowed her to pick the place to sit since for some reason she always picked the corners of the restaurant. At every point, I was careful to make her comfortable.

It's ridiculous how "Bee Farmer" labeled me as an inconsiderate person who was not trying to help understand her.

I myself had a great time with her till the point we were on a cruise and she seemed to blow a topic out of proportion which was so trivial. Even at that moment, I tried to calm her down and told her that this isn't something so serious to discuss so much or argue about. However, she just wouldn't let it go. I discussed that situation with a few friends of mine as well (from different countries including FSU), they all said that her behavior about the "passive smoking" topic was definitely not normal and even a red flag.

When the girl wanted to meet again after that, I decided to give it another shot and spend more time. Tried to have communication and she wouldn't talk at all. It was almost like she went into a reset mode of Day 1. Even worse, this time no talking at all. I tried to initiate conversation several times and all I got was short responses. As usual, "Bee Farmer" took it out of context just to run me down. I never said that if a girl pulls out her phone for a few minutes and uses it, then she is not giving me her attention. I mean, how ridiculous you have to be to derive that conclusion from my post? It was about 1 complete hour of no talking from her besides the 1 word or 2 words responses to my questions. It was clearly a sign of someone who is not interested (at least on that day). I even asked her if she wanted to do something else and she showed no interest. Then she goes back home and the next day she says, "do you want to meet me again?".

As I said again, the first 6 days with this girl were great. But she went into a kind of reset mode after the Cruise incident. And this was towards the end of my trip as well. So, there wasn't sufficient time.

About meeting her in a place to sit and talk rather than go see some interesting place. The reason for this was to make her comfortable. Because she would usually have a difficult time to talk when visiting a place or walking around. The best conversations I had with her were when we were both seated in a calm and quiet place. So, I told her that it's my last day and seeing interesting places as a tourist is not as important for me than sitting and talking with her. I may not have worded it perfectly and she took offense to that.

Since then, till the last minute, I tried contacting this girl and told her that we could meet in the evening after her work. She kept refusing and said I was not interested in her. I just asked her why she was completely quiet yesterday and she felt I blamed her. Well if someone communicates a little bit, that's one thing. But not speaking a single word on your own or initiating something for 1 hour definitely means something is wrong.

I gave her all the possible options to meet since I barely had time left to catch my return flight. She did not want to meet and said that she tried her best.

I tried to make her understand in all possible ways but she did not. I wanted to make sure that from my side I put full effort before returning and not have any regrets.

After she clarified her behavior on the cruise, within a moment, I let everything go and proceeded to meet her again. And she on the other hand, can't let go of anything even after I requested many times.

I tried everything I could. If a few sentences were here and there in my communication with her, I tried my best to explain her nicely. If the girl can't seem to get over it, be stuck up and stubborn, then it's not something I can do anything about.

Ironically, when a few days ago, she tried to clarify a misunderstanding and I didn't get it first, she got impatient and wanted me to become normal quickly. It's a pity that when it's her turn to understand the other person, she seemed so stubborn.

It's time to move on.

[Surfer]

Good luck with your next effort.  I strongly doubt that this woman will be able to be happy.  Could be she is an alcoholic.

That does seem quite true. More than her argumentative nature (which got highlighted when she had the cocktails), it was more about her inability to become normal after misunderstandings. She was way too stubborn and just wouldn't let go of something. The kind of person who would make you feel really guilty for your actions and make you request or clarify a 1000 times.

[John Gaunt]

I agree with you that it is important to have more communication to understand the compatibility. I felt after about 5 weeks of communication that if I see a possibility, then I should meet her in real life since I was not actively dating any other girl. I did not arrive with any expectations that she will be the one. I knew that it could go either way.

About the views of "Bee Farmer", they were extremely judgemental, over-rationalizing the behavior of the girl and he also seemed to be on a mission to accuse me for everything. He even forgot in his post that he wrote several things which were contradicting the information I gave in original post.

I was very patient with this girl, I never rushed her or pushed her for anything. Always let her know how much I enjoyed spending the time with her. She wanted communication and I went at her pace. She even began to get more comfortable by the 3rd day and began to open up. I never rushed her into anything. And even the fact that I told her I like her. It wasn't like I told her that marry me the next day. Telling a girl that you like her and enjoy spending time with her and asking her to express undying love for you and marry you, these are two completely different things. So, "Bee Farmer" was clearly blowing my post out of proportion by misinterpreting and even twisting the words or adding his own words.

I do not claim to be any expert and that's why I am on this Forum to learn from the more experienced members. However, I expect that some members would read and genuinely help rather than be on a mission to prove others wrong or try to feed their ego or run other down for no reason.

And regarding this girl preferring quiet places. I mentioned that I am an introvert myself and not very social. In fact, this is something both I and this girl had in common. We even laughed about it in the initial days. After meeting, I realized that she was on the extreme end of being an introvert and she absolutely couldn't tolerate people around. I quickly adjusted to her and always asked her if she was feeling comfortable in the surroundings. Even in the cafes and restaurants, I always allowed her to pick the place to sit since for some reason she always picked the corners of the restaurant. At every point, I was careful to make her comfortable.

It's ridiculous how "Bee Farmer" labeled me as an inconsiderate person who was not trying to help understand her.

I myself had a great time with her till the point we were on a cruise and she seemed to blow a topic out of proportion which was so trivial. Even at that moment, I tried to calm her down and told her that this isn't something so serious to discuss so much or argue about. However, she just wouldn't let it go. I discussed that situation with a few friends of mine as well (from different countries including FSU), they all said that her behavior about the "passive smoking" topic was definitely not normal and even a red flag.

When the girl wanted to meet again after that, I decided to give it another shot and spend more time. Tried to have communication and she wouldn't talk at all. It was almost like she went into a reset mode of Day 1. Even worse, this time no talking at all. I tried to initiate conversation several times and all I got was short responses. As usual, "Bee Farmer" took it out of context just to run me down. I never said that if a girl pulls out her phone for a few minutes and uses it, then she is not giving me her attention. I mean, how ridiculous you have to be to derive that conclusion from my post? It was about 1 complete hour of no talking from her besides the 1 word or 2 words responses to my questions. It was clearly a sign of someone who is not interested (at least on that day). I even asked her if she wanted to do something else and she showed no interest. Then she goes back home and the next day she says, "do you want to meet me again?".

As I said again, the first 6 days with this girl were great. But she went into a kind of reset mode after the Cruise incident. And this was towards the end of my trip as well. So, there wasn't sufficient time.

About meeting her in a place to sit and talk rather than go see some interesting place. The reason for this was to make her comfortable. Because she would usually have a difficult time to talk when visiting a place or walking around. The best conversations I had with her were when we were both seated in a calm and quiet place. So, I told her that it's my last day and seeing interesting places as a tourist is not as important for me than sitting and talking with her. I may not have worded it perfectly and she took offense to that.

Since then, till the last minute, I tried contacting this girl and told her that we could meet in the evening after her work. She kept refusing and said I was not interested in her. I just asked her why she was completely quiet yesterday and she felt I blamed her. Well if someone communicates a little bit, that's one thing. But not speaking a single word on your own or initiating something for 1 hour definitely means something is wrong.

I gave her all the possible options to meet since I barely had time left to catch my return flight. She did not want to meet and said that she tried her best.

I tried to make her understand in all possible ways but she did not. I wanted to make sure that from my side I put full effort before returning and not have any regrets.

After she clarified her behavior on the cruise, within a moment, I let everything go and proceeded to meet her again. And she on the other hand, can't let go of anything even after I requested many times.

I tried everything I could. If a few sentences were here and there in my communication with her, I tried my best to explain her nicely. If the girl can't seem to get over it, be stuck up and stubborn, then it's not something I can do anything about.

Ironically, when a few days ago, she tried to clarify a misunderstanding and I didn't get it first, she got impatient and wanted me to become normal quickly. It's a pity that when it's her turn to understand the other person, she seemed so stubborn.

It's time to move on.

Indeed. Get your parents to hook you up with a sweet Indian girl of a similar background/caste and values.
FSUW are not for you.

[BillyB]

I do not claim to be any expert and that's why I am on this Forum to learn from the more experienced members. However, I expect that some members would read and genuinely help rather than be on a mission to prove others wrong or try to feed their ego or run other down for no reason.

You're dealing with a mixed bag of people on the internet. Not all will tell you what you want to hear. Some will pat you on the back for giving a good effort. Some will give constructive advice. Others will shove it down your throat. Even the advice shoved down your throat may be valuable so you may not what to discard it. For your benefit, take what you need to help you get where you want to go.

You've actually done better than Bee Farmer did in his first visit to a woman. He used the worst agency around, AnastasiaDate. The girl he met showed up didn't dress nice as if she really didn't want to be there and then left him shortly after seeing him. He can use a little advice himself on how to get things done. He'll probably be mad at me but with some people, there needs to be more doing and less talking. People can talk all they want and tell you what to do although they've never accomplished what they're trying to get you to accomplish. Others don't need to talk. They just get it done.

[Surfer]

Indeed. Get your parents to hook you up with a sweet Indian girl of a similar background/caste and values.
FSUW are not for you.

This is clearly an example of judging a person based on their place of birth and the stereotypes associated with them. Hope that feeds your ego and makes you feel better. I don't follow that system of marriage you are pointing to.

Anyway, feel free to be rude and ridiculous.

[Surfer]

You're dealing with a mixed bag of people on the internet. Not all will tell you what you want to hear. Some will pat you on the back for giving a good effort. Some will give constructive advice. Others will shove it down your throat. Even the advice shoved down your throat may be valuable so you may not what to discard it. For your benefit, take what you need to help you get where you want to go.

You've actually done better than Bee Farmer did in his first visit to a woman. He used the worst agency around, AnastasiaDate. The girl he met showed up didn't dress nice as if she really didn't want to be there and then left him shortly after seeing him. He can use a little advice himself on how to get things done. He'll probably be mad at me but with some people, there needs to be more doing and less talking. People can talk all they want and tell you what to do although they've never accomplished what they're trying to get you to accomplish. Others don't need to talk. They just get it done.

Thanks Billy and I agree. Besides the valuable experience I gained from this date, I also learned the members on this Forum I should listen to. There are members who have given me constructive feedback and I really appreciate it. Even if the advice is given blunt.

However, some members are clearly on a mission to be rude and ridiculous. And especially those who judge others for their place of birth and run them down with the stereotypes associated with it.

I wonder if these people would treat the FSU women the same way by judging them with the stereotypes associated with FSU countries.

After all, it's Internet, and trolls must be avoided

[John Gaunt]

This is clearly an example of judging a person based on their place of birth and the stereotypes associated with them. Hope that feeds your ego and makes you feel better. I don't follow that system of marriage you are pointing to.

Anyway, feel free to be rude and ridiculous.

It's hardly a stereotype given that the vast majority of marriages in India occur within the same cast. Look at the matrimonials/ indian marriage web sites and it's pretty self evident.
Anyway, you seem rather thin skinned about this particular topic. Why would that be?

I'm still waiting on an answer to my question but I rather suspect it won't be forthcoming.

I wonder why?

[Surfer]

It's hardly a stereotype given that the vast majority of marriages in India occur within the same cast. Look at the matrimonials/ indian marriage web sites and it's pretty self evident.
Anyway, you seem rather thin skinned about this particular topic. Why would that be?

I'm still waiting on an answer to my question but I rather suspect it won't be forthcoming.

I wonder why?

It's quite simple. Just because most people in a country follow a certain tradition, it does not mean that all do. You come across as the type of person who generalizes everyone from a country to be the same type instead of understanding that not all are the same. It's rather you who seems quite triggered by the fact that another person was born in India.

Anyway, I looked up your post history on this Forum and this specific post explains everything:

http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/index.php?topic=23070.msg488586#msg488586

"John Gaunt" is a man who is married to an FSUW for 7 years, signs up on a Forum specifically to troll members (especially Trench) sounds like as immature and ridiculous as it can get. Seems like this is how you make yourself feel better by trolling people on Internet. Wonder what other trolling hobbies you have on Internet. Quite sad hobbies for a grown up man.

[Surfer]

Thanks to the members in this Topic with useful advises, excluding the trolls of course.

This trip was a valuable experience.

[LAman]

Surfer, read your posts here about TR. Of course all replies here are just guesses as to the why's things happened with your meetings. One thing I noticed is you sounded like a puppy dog, going whenever, wherever you were told.

I wonder if you had taken more control of the meetings with this girl if things would have been better. Sounds like you went everywhere she suggested.


Did you ever meet during daytime? You could have taken her to Tsartsino Park for a picnic. Beautiful landscape and not very busy, not much people there.


Too bad you didn't make us aware of you going to Moscow, I or others, could have made some suggestions for you.


As far as her continuing to ask to meet with you, sounds like she was interested in you but was hoping for something else to happen, maybe the magic from your internet sessions.

[BillyB]

judging a person based on their place of birth and the stereotypes associated with them.

Many of the women you contact will judge you. This is normal human behavior. Some will see that your skin is too dark. Some won't like the culture they believe you grew up in. Some will not date you because they don't want family and friends to talk bad things behind their back. Some women will simply think you're ugly.

I'm half Vietnamese. Some FSU women posters said my wife is the most beautiful of all women that they've seen marry foreigners. GQBlues is Filipino and he married a beautiful tall blond Russian who is now working a high level position in a company and making over $100,000 a year. My wife is currently in college to be a medical professional and she's on the path to someday make over $100,000 a year. Some people think it costs a lot of money to marry an FSU woman. It can be an investment.

We are exceptions, not the rule. Guys from Asia aren't as successful as Caucasians when pursing FSU women. Success can happen but the truth remains and you have an uphill battle to catch an FSU woman compared to a guy with Western European genes. You have to be better than other men. You need to sharpen your skills at finding and identifying quality women who have a genuine interest in you. If you continue to visit women who will only consider marrying you after realizing their dream guy will never show up, you'll be disappointed.

If you write 10 women, it's highly unlikely you will find a good match. Write a thousand women to increase your odds. One lady may be thrilled you wrote her and excited to hear your voice.

[Surfer]

Surfer, read your posts here about TR. Of course all replies here are just guesses as to the why's things happened with your meetings. One thing I noticed is you sounded like a puppy dog, going whenever, wherever you were told.

I wonder if you had taken more control of the meetings with this girl if things would have been better. Sounds like you went everywhere she suggested.


Did you ever meet during daytime? You could have taken her to Tsartsino Park for a picnic. Beautiful landscape and not very busy, not much people there.


Too bad you didn't make us aware of you going to Moscow, I or others, could have made some suggestions for you.


As far as her continuing to ask to meet with you, sounds like she was interested in you but was hoping for something else to happen, maybe the magic from your internet sessions.

Yeah, I made suggestions for the trip and I am quite well acquainted with Moscow because of my earlier trips. Tsaritsyno Park is exactly where I met her last and before that had been to other parks, cafes, cinemas, view points (Sparrow Hills). I would definitely consider your suggestions the next time. Picnic is a good idea and better than a walk in the park. I did not consider that, thanks for the suggestion.

I would say, 50% of the places we went to were suggested by me and the remaining by her. Some of the places I suggested, she did not want to go because they were crowded or many people. So, my goal was to ensure that she feels comfortable.

Yes, we met during daytime as well as night time on a few days.