Divorce

[Boethius]

AJ, my husband is from Ukraine, and the only thing we ever argued about was child rearing, where we had differences in a number of areas.  So, I think I know where you are coming from. 

We never discussed our approaches before marriage, and had two kids by the time the issues arose.  Now, as the kids are older, the differences are less of an issue, and we really have great kids.  I think in a lot of cases, this is not an insurmountable problem.

If you want to discuss this with someone who has been there and lived to tell the tale, PM me.

[KenC]

WOW AJ,
I am as shocked as anyone here.  But I DO understand.  My heart goes out to both of you.  If you need a shoulder to lean on, call me my friend.
KenC

[Doll]

I am sorry, guys- I didn't understand a single thing. Can somebody in a very plain English explain me why they are getting divorced? Like the wife says she wants the divorce because.... What are her reasons or at least one of them?
Ah, you're the best husband, ah, I love you so much, ah, I really don't want to move out! Yet she is divorcing her husband.
What does she say?
AJ said a lot and nothing.
(J and I are very different from each other, look differently at many things, yet we are together and are not thinking of divorce. We don't have the reason, the true reason)

[KenC]

Doll,
Even though AJ and his wife loved each other deeply and in many different ways, their conflicts were not able to be resolved.
KenC

(Correct me of I am wrong AJ)

[Mars]

Doll,
Even though AJ and his wife loved each other deeply and in many different ways, their conflicts were not able to be resolved.
KenC

(Correct me of I am wrong AJ)

Probably what Doll and others are thinking is:  If two people truly love each other, any problem can be resolved.  

Not saying I think that, as I am in a similar situation right now (we are not married).  Very strong feelings of love, yet some unresolvable issues.

But, it is hard for people to understand.  Hard for me to comprehend also (my case along with AJ's.)

In my case, I have to continue looking for another woman, while loving the first one.

[Jumper]

Doll-
technically , i'm divorcing her,but yes its a mutual decision.
if our stated reasons are not grand enough for you,
they are for us?
obviously we wouldnt be going thru the pain of divorce otherwise.
 
To me,by your post , you seem determined in trying to over turn some big rock to find a snake that isnt there?
this isnt surprising to me..in the past you've often posted  along the lines of:"no RW would do this or that" without some *insert some horrible motivation , or notion *  from her husband.or something equally dreadful from the wife.

sometimes, in life and marriage, things don't work out and there is no big rock or snake under it.
I suppose we should be sorry to dissappoint?
I just got off the phone with my wife..
if you want you can call her and get her words,and hear her cry if that would satisfy the curiousity.
I have posted "our thoughts" as best i can..
and it seems they dont amount to *enough* for you.
She would not dispute anything i've posted,,and would not be able
to add anything of substance, if whats already posted isnt enough?

perhaps i dint state a big full list of all the reasons..
to be honest , i dont feel any obligation to do so,
as i mentioned in my first post , they wont help anyone here anyway,
We can work thru them as we have, or we can no longer.

No one reason would be larger than the child rearing aspect??
or the reservations of starting a family over it,
that's pretty big!!! ????!!!!!
Of course its nt just that one thing,  there are other issues,, and of course from both sides..Neither of us are perfect.

I can understand your , and others members confusion,
we as a couple are confused as well.

A  list of *This divorce happened because*-
 "the husband wants this ,but the wife wants that instead"
seems pointless?
as each item would then likely be  disputed to death here,
or  regulated to that its trivial and not worthy of a break up
of itself (which in that light ,would be accurate)

If members cant believe that *we* as a couple
  did not come to this decision lightly,or that we did not go over in detail these issues long term and far better than will be done here
in some forum  thread..
Then I've no words to help them understand it any better.

[Gator]

AJ, I feel for you. 

This is not the place to explain the specific reason behind your decision. 

Suffice it to say that the deal breaker could be any of a 1000 different reasons described in the archives of divorce between husbands and wives. 

What difference does it make to know the reason?  None.  Suffice it to say that whatever the reason the two of you did your best to reconcile.

AJ, this must be a very difficult time for you.  First, you have to explain to your heart why she is gone, and then you have to explain to your boy.  This will take time. 

I recall how your boy lost his mother.  It takes a special woman to fill that void, which your Tanya did, and apparently with abundant love.   

I have been busy for a few days and did not read RWD.  I return to read this.  I am in shock.  I feel for you. 

[Jumper]

Thanks Gator-
We both sat down and talked a lot with my boy, one on one  ,and together,
explaining things as best we could.Let him ask as many questions as he could muster..
As i mentioned earlier, she has been great about staying in touch with him, which
has helped a lot and he's so far adjusting well.



 

[Zhena]

Ok,may I say this...
Of course,knowing the reason doesnt change anything,but....As for the Doll,it seems to me that there is NO rea; reason to divorce. Sorry,but we,RW,are straight and often saying what we thinking even if it sounds like not our business...
So.AJ,if you REALLY wanted the kids...if you re sincere about that...I dont see any problem at all. What child rearing aspect differences you re talking about?! Your Tanya is only a theoretic because she never had her own kids! She absolutely cant know how she will raise her future child. I am telling this to you absolutely exactly. I have a stepson also and I dont like many things about how americans raise the children....but we never ever discussed what will we do,when we ll have our own child. Simply because all children are different,thats first. A second,you can imagine how yu ll do this and that,and a reality will be absolutely different,and you will feel different also. We dont have any problem raising our child now. Sometimes we have a little disagreement,but its nothing. The parents rare agree on 100%.
I can tell you more,if you want to listen. I think THIS reason cant be the reason. From what you described,it sounds just masohistic action for you both,sorry....

[Ade]

AJ,

you have my sympathies especially since I experienced a "sometimes love is not enough" scenario myself in my last marriage. I also understand your reservations about posting personal details.

However, I have to say that your wife, at some point at least, has to address her unreasonable view of child rearing. It's unlikely that she will find a man worth having that will give up his role as a proper father to his kids just to appease her demands. So she is doing herself and you a disservice by holding onto this weird view of parenting and causing the marriage to fail as a result. Does this perhaps stem from some bad experiences in her own childhood? Maybe she needs to see a psychologist rather than a marriage counsellor?

I really hope it works out for the best for both of you.

[docetae]

I agree with Zhena, single father too, the point you raise is something major, but you are both having a stubborn, selfish and masochistic behavior now.
You can discuss what you want the time your wife has no baby of her own from day -9 months, it will be only theory.

With elements posted on this forum (and i respect that you don't want to give personal details) my understanding is that two adults have a too big ego and proudness to accept compromises.

What kind of divorce it is when you want to date you soon to be ex wife ? You are just lying to both of you !

[Misha]

Your Tanya is only a theoretic because she never had her own kids! She absolutely cant know how she will raise her future child.

And, what if she will apply her theory once she has a child? Then it will be too late. Also, AJ seems to be hinting that she is already living by her principles with his child. If that is correct, then it is not solely theoretic and he sees quite clearly how she will truly behave in the future.

[IAmZon]

Let me offer a thought about protocol and decorum ...

Here, and on other boards, esoteric issues are discussed and sometimes avatars make statements that people would not.  It would be bad form.  It would be rude; presumptuous; and a host of other things.

AJ, and this thread appears very different to me.  This is a very personal matter, and is being originated by a very senior member who has already contributed much in good faith.  Nothing has ever suggested this member is rash or selfish or quick tempered - far to the contrary.

I take the posts that offer contrast as being founded in romanticism and optimism.  So they may be well meaning. But they also fly in the face of the person we have come to know.  Post that fill in the blanks of issues that are none of our business, I suggest are misplaced.  There is a thin line between a healthy public discussion and voyeurism - let's watch the line.  (If meaningful issues arise, I think they should create separate posts that can not be taken personally.)

All of this goes to suggest that future posts to be as respectful as possible. I would hate to see some a s s * % ^ * surface, and take an excellent resource, and turn it into a mistake.

[SMS60]

All of this goes to suggest that future posts to be as respectful as possible. I would hate to see some a s s * % ^ * surface, and take an excellent resource, and turn it into a mistake.

Awwww, I also would hate to see some a s s * % * surface and try to stifle opinions he might not agree with on a public forum.

I agree it needs to be respectful. But some people see respect in different ways than others. Criticism or hard questions is seen as disrespectful to some people and not others.

Im sure the OP is going thru a tuff period in his life. If he did not want all opinions he should have kept it to phone calls or private pm's.

I think most people will be respectful with this subject. Why the need for a warning???

[IAmZon]

"think most people will be respectful with this subject. Why the need for a warning???"

It was not a warning, rather a suggestion.  But to answer your question, I am less certain than you appear to be ...

[kievstar]

I can understand what AJ is going through.  I divorced my ex wife after 10 years.  Was a shock to everybody even the judge who did not allow us to get divorced at first and had to go through counseling.  In order to get the divorce we had to lie and makeup issues during counseling.  Some things you just can not write on a forum for people to understand.  I have stayed very close friends with my ex and helped her meet her now partner whom she has children with.  I have only recently not been close to them as I am now married and you need to cut the cord as not fair to new wife.

In my case I divorced her and she did not want divorce but marriage takes two people wanting it to work. My issues were very minor but to me they were important.

On this forum we do tend to have many very book smart analytical types that like to analyze every word in a sentence or take one sentence out of a paragraph and discuss it.  Which loses the meaning of what is said.  Also English words have many different meanings.

AJ did the right thing and needs to stick to his gut feeling.  He did not post his thoughts for help. If you never had a peaceful divorce, you really have no idea what AJ is going through.  So for the people who never had a peaceful divorce best to sit this thread out.

[Gator]

AJ has ALWAYS been open and insightful.   He understands the RW mentality.  He says his divorce is not about the fact she is from the FSU.

Nothing about our divorce has much to do with where we met, or what our nationalities are.

That should be the end of the discussion about the reasons for his divorce.   AJ doesn't want a never ending analysis of his divorce.   Respect his decision.  I respect him for coming forward and informing us of what happened even though it hurts.

[Gator]

Based on just my personal experiences the issues surrounding a divorce are likely complex and multi-layered.  AJ’s words say that.

The devil is in the details…....nothing sinister or secretive....…not be a good match or truly compatible long term.....…believed that  big love can over come anything…....we are just very different on our views on family, life and our mutuakl goals on where we see us  in 5 or 10 years,our goals are so different…....I cant think of a thing i'd do differently, or do over….i've seen it in other couples,and never understood before.it seemed simple? if you love each other that much,work it out!!  While i can't say that i fully understand even now, i certainly can relate

And for those who think the reasons need to be discussed because they are transferable as a learning experience, pay attention to AJ's words.

I dont know what anyone can learn from our example,i'm still struggling to learn from it myself…....i dont think a list of the details of where ,we, as a couple, are not compatible in that sense, would help  anyone else? they would be different for many people…....details only beg for further evaluation, and without living in our home, no written words would give anyone here a good image of the family dynamic…....sometimes, in life and marriage, things don't work out and there is no big rock or snake under it

For those who still feel a need for more, take solace in AJ’s words:

it was a positive experience for both of us,, and we still love each other.likely always will…..we still see each other daily almost, and always call.  but we both know its unfair to each other long term.... and it is not a realistic view long term.

[docetae]

My point of view is the following: If you post elements for public viewing, you should accept to be judged and analyzed. If all elements are not public, you must accept to be judged on elements that are available.
And with only factual elements described by AJ on RWD, we switch from 180 degrees in not even 3 months.

[Doll]

As for the Doll,it seems to me that there is NO rea; reason to divorce. Sorry,but we,RW,are straight and often saying what we thinking even if it sounds like not our business...

I can't see any "reasons stated". There is nothing really stated.
There  has to be the reason the OP didn't mention.
Or most likely AJ's wife didn't state to him.
Come on, guys, to live 6 years in a marriage and only now realize she can't live because of something different! Something different occurs after 1 or 2 years. 3 at the most.She was waiting for something. What happened right before she filed for divorce? Her mother came over, she graduated from some fancy college, she got a very good job.
What?

[Vaughn]

I can't see any "reasons stated". There is nothing really stated.
It has to be the reason the OP didn't mention.
Or most likely AJ's wife didn't state to him.Come on, guys, to live 6 years in a marriage and only now realize she can't live because of something different! Something different occurs after 1 or 2 years. 3 at the most.She was waiting for something. What happened right before she filed for divorce? Her mother came over, she graduated from some fancy college, she got a very good job.
What?

Doll, I'm going to respectully ask you to drop the line of questioning. It really makes one appear like a
drooling neighbor behind a half-open door. I believe AJ has opened up as magnificently as he can at
this early stage of a pending divorce, and as he's already asserted,

If members cant believe that *we* as a couple
  did not come to this decision lightly,or that we did not go over in detail these issues long term and far better than will be done here
in some forum  thread..
Then I've no words to help them understand it any better.

[Doll]

ok

[KenC]

Doll,
Back off please.  AJ has shared as much as he is comfortable right now.  If he needs advice, he will ask for it.
KenC
(I was typing this while Vaughn and Doll were posting)

[Gator]

My point of view is the following: If you post elements for public viewing, you should accept to be judged and analyzed. If all elements are not public, you must accept to be judged on elements that are available. 

Judgment?!  With minimal information?!  Something must be lost in translation.

And with only factual elements described by AJ on RWD, we switch from 180 degrees in not even 3 months.

Maybe 3 months ago AJ was still trying his best to save his marriage!?  I recall trying my best to save my 25-yr marriage. 

[Gtex]

AJ;

Thanks for the notification.  Others may not realize, but I'm imagining for you it was only appropriate to share.  And so now, we all hurt for you (and her).

Do not be surprised by others failure to grasp it.  It is really only recognizable to someone who has traveled this road.  

People are as they are and not inclined to change.  They may want to change and you may help, but you can not direct it.  Sideline cheerleading only goes so far.  You wrote enough (and eloquently) for anyone who has been there to recognize it; for the others:  Irreconcilable Differences.  Enough said!

This thread could be closed now and wait for your new and next posting as things develop.  Enough about the past, enough about the reasons.  The only lesson here is universal; even big love may not conquer all (YMMV)!

By the way, your usual civility is no surprise, yet still quite reassuring.  We'll stay tuned...