Languages and Children

[Journeyman]

My fiancee and I have been speaking about a lot of things regarding the future -- the most recent issue being the matter of what language(s) we should speak with our future children.  

Currently, she feels that, when she is alone with our future child, she should speak Russian. On the other hand, she says she would speak English to everybody when I or others are present.  She always speaks English with me, except she will receive my help in Russian when she does not know how to say or hear something in English.  She wants to learn to speak English better, of course, and so it is possible that her feelings might change also.

I think it would be great if our child(ren) learn to speak Russian, and other languages as well.  I know that children, when young, are entirely capable of learning more than one language simultaneously (English, Russian, and even another).  Still, I am wondering how this issue has worked out in other Russian-American families.  

Any insights to offer?

Journeyman  

[525i]

Children can learn many languages simultaneously.

My friend is from Croatia and he was married with Finnish woman. Their children speak Finnish and Croatian of course, but also English. I believe that they can speak German too. And, maybe Swedish. Looks like I have to ask about this.

It is possible that child can learn three languages at the same time. When a child is with mother they speak Russian, when with father they speak Finnish (or other language) and when with mother and father they speak English.

I heard one child talking mixed Finnish and Russian.

Anyway, learning two/three languages slows down learning process a bit.

I think it is a good thing that they speak Russian too, because when they visit mother's family, they can communicate with them. They can also find Russian/Ukrainian friends. When my friend visits parents in Croatia, they usually spend about five weeks in there. The children has friends in there.

Your fiancee is right. Let her speak Russian to your future children.

[Elen]

I think it would be great if our child(ren) learn to speak Russian, and other languages as well. I know that children, when young, are entirely capable of learning more than one language simultaneously (English, Russian, and even another). Still, I am wondering how this issue has worked out in other Russian-American families.

 It is not such easy task like it seems. Children learn and speak (any) language only when they have a need in that:? Without such need it will demand rather much efforts from  your wife to keep your future children to speak Russian ( to learn them write on Russian sometmes becomes impracticable task:?)

[Bruno]

Elen have right... Anastacia at 9 yo speak very good French, Dutch, and Russian... but she is only able to read and write Dutch... she have no interest to read other languages... about slow down the learning process, no problem, she was always the first of his class

[BC]

Young kids and languages are like bread and butter.

I wouldn't worry at all about kids being able to pick up a new language quickly.  Our daughter after one year was speaking, reading and writing Italian better than I can and getting straight 'A's' in school.  She is now learning english and French. My son also immigrated here and did quite well.

We use English, Russian, Italian, German regularly in our house and have no real common language we all can speak fluently so is quite a mix.  

[Elen]

There is less problems with learning foreign language you have to use every day then to learn (or not to forget) a language which only your mother speaks with you at:? (especially in the case with small children.) A set of problems includes a lot of things - from increased percent of kids with  stammer problems to just "protests"  of teens to speak at "your" language)

I'm not about it is impossible task to learn "american" kid to speak Russian rather good but about it would demand twice effords from mom to do that (poems, songs, fair tales books, films, cartoons and so on - all should be in double mesure:D Let add here an every week lessons of Russian grammer (with child's screams - Ya ne budu - ya ne hachoooo) and you would figurate out what waits for you in future)

 

[BC]

Elen,

We've mad it a habit to order RU school books each year and order a LOT of RU books to read.  IMHO reading is one of the best ways to keep up and improve language/knowledge.

[Elen]

And what"" There is no problems to set your children to study Russian after they come from their "main" school? If there is no problems then you have an angels but not kids:D

( My "talks"are all from my friend's life experience.  She moved to Japane with her russian husband 13 years ago with 6 y.o (in those times) daughter. Their younger son was born in Japan (now he is 9 years old) Both children speak very good at Russian (as at home they hear only Russian speach) though there are a LOT of words wich just "sliped" from their lexicon. and they have a need to ask for sinonyms when they talk to us.  But when they have a need to WRITE something they do that only with a help of hieroglyphs:shock:

Their grandmom (a former teacher at school) is at an edge of heart atack each time she sees what they do with Russian grammer when they manage to write something at Russian:D

And it was always some "fights" when their mom tried to place them at Russian school books (the result is they have a very odd representation about georgaphy and history of Russia and would never pass an exam even in 5th class:?)

[ConnerVT]

While folk's ideas on the subject seem good, Elen's remarks are the most accurate as far as I have experienced.

For our son, who arrived in the US with a ten word English vocabulary --  His English has improved dramatically, with his English literacy nearly leading his class at school.  But besides his mother's attempts, his Russian language skills have barely moved forward in over 1 year's time.  They converse mostly in Russian, she attempts to have him practice reading in writing in Russian, but a 6 yo boy can be stubborn.

But not as stubborn as a two yo girl, as is our neighbor's daughter.  Her mother is from Poland, and speaks to her when at home mostly in Polish.  The daughter understands what her mother says, but insists on always answering in English.  Have you ever tried to reason logically with a two year old? 

I think to successfully have a bilingual child, you need to make it interesting for the child, and they need to be surrounded by the environment frequently.  Our son will be with us this summer in Russia, where we will be having a teacher work/play with him several morning each week.  Her primary goal is to improve his Russian language skills.  I'll let you know this fall how well it works out...

[TigerPaws]

 I will chime in quickly as we are about to sail to another anchorage in a few hours.

 Our daughter is about to turn 3 and speaks both Russian and English seamlessly, my wife speaks to her almost exclusively in Russian and we have Russian childrens books as well as other Russian language learning aids. I speak to our daughter in both English and Russian, she dose not see any difference between the two languages and dose not stutter (Elen is full of sh*t once again). We will continue to teach her both languages as seamlessly as possible with an added emphasis on Russian because once she enters school in a couple of years she will hear and learn only English and we want her to be well grounded in Russian before that.

 Of course we visit Russia at least twice a year, my wife and daughter usually stay about a month at a time which is a real help in our daughter learning Russian. There is nothing like total immersion in a language to assist in the learning process.

 

[Elen]

Elen is full of sh*t once again).

 The only one who is full of sh*t is you with your ignorance . Let go and ask any logopedist about such problem with be-language kids.

 And if you bother to read what I wrote then you would see I spoke not about ALL kids but about increased persents among those kids with such problem.[/size][/color][/font]

[ConnerVT]

I will again come to Elen's defence on this subject.  Tigerpaws bashed Elen while at the same time stating exactly what I said to support her in my previous post.

You are fortunate that, at 3, your child is speaking both languages "seamlessly".  Of course, I will also assume that your child's language skills are approximately those of a three year old's.  But then, my Russian is also just about that level.

My son will be seven in August.  His English, non-existent 14 months ago, is now that of a 7 yo.  His Russian has stayed stagnant, or has actually atrophied some.  Your daughter has had the benefit of "total immersion" for a significant percentage of her most formative years.  I hope that my son will benefit from his upcoming eight week stay in Russia.  But most people will not be able to benefit from this type of situation.

There are many documented cases which a child's development has been impeded by two languages being spoken in their home.  I'm not a phycologist, but it is not difficult to see that the individual involved and many factors of their environment can make the results vary greatly.

[Bruno]

And me, i am between Tiger and Elen... Anastasia have no problem about speak two language ( in her case, three languages... )... problem have come after, around eight year old, when she have need learn grammatic... she speak, read and write Dutch... she speak and read russian ( cannot write )... and she speak French ( cannot read and write )...

Speaking a language is enough easy with immersion but you don't learn read, write and grammatic with immersion... same the brain of child have some limit...

The case of tiger is a little more easy... he is retired and his wife don't work... they have a lot of time for help the child... but, usual people work and have only some limit in the time used for help the child...

[Elen]

How old was Anastacia when she start to learn three languges and does she speak Russian now?

[Bruno]

She was a little more that 3 year old... and she have no more of ten year... and speak russian... but after our divorce, my ex-wife have wish send back Anastasia in Russia during 1 year for follow russian school, and learn read and write russian... but the child have not show interest in this, she have begin hate school... after three month, she was back in Belgium...

What have really help Anastassia for learn more vocabulary in russian language was the sumer holliday : 2 month in Russia with the grand-father and grand-mother... speak was needed for game with other children... and for Anastassia, read and write was not needed...

She have wish learn French because she was very happy to speak ( with me without her mother understand something ) ... and Anastassia have learn me some russian words and phrases in Russian...

[Leslie]

Well Journeyman my wife and I face exactly the same decision as you.  I have read all the posts on this thread and no one offers ANY alternative to trying to develop both languages. 

Are there any married guys here who have insisted that their children only speak their language?  

Is there any guy who posts here who would make this demand on their future wife?? 

Are there any married women here who would agree with such a decision???

If you marry a woman from another culture you are in  a cross cultural marriage. 

NEGATING YOUR WIFE'S CULTURE IS NOT AN OPTION!

Of course children do not magically become bilingual.  BC's advice is spot on.  I reckon it is all you can reasonably do as parents.  Adult level written skills in a language start to develop in the teenage years.  Teenagers make their own decisions!  Some second generation immigrants reject their "foreign" culture.  Others don't. 

 

[Admin]

My fiancee and I have been speaking about a lot of things regarding the future -- the most recent issue being the matter of what language(s) we should speak with our future children.  

Currently, she feels that, when she is alone with our future child, she should speak Russian. On the other hand, she says she would speak English to everybody when I or others are present.  She always speaks English with me, except she will receive my help in Russian when she does not know how to say or hear something in English.  She wants to learn to speak English better, of course, and so it is possible that her feelings might change also.

I think it would be great if our child(ren) learn to speak Russian, and other languages as well.  I know that children, when young, are entirely capable of learning more than one language simultaneously (English, Russian, and even another).  Still, I am wondering how this issue has worked out in other Russian-American families.  

Any insights to offer?

Journeyman  

I've lived in quite a number of different countries and worked in many more. I've witnessed many cross-cultural couples with children, including one guy who married a Ukrainian girl and they stayed in Ukraine and now have two sons.

My perspective is that teaching children more than one language is ESSENTIAL in today's shrinking world - and it would be a crime to deprive a child of the natural ability to learn languages while young.

In our case, Olya speaks almost exclusively to Katya in Russian. I speak to her in an odd mix of bad Russian and English. Katya seems to understand both of us quite easily and in her attempts to speak, she selects the easier of the two possible words. Quite cute to see.

For us, it is important that Katya speak and understand Russian as that is the only language spoken by her grandparents and other Ukrainian family members. It is important for her to speak, understand, read and write English, as that is where her education will be earned, and more than likely, where she will spend the vast majority of her life.

I also have a young son who has a delayed speech problem. He is not the fruit of my marriage with Olya, hence, the bi-lingual issue never entered into things. What caused his speech delay is anyone's guess, but the likelihood is it came from having 4 older siblings in the home (no, not all my children) who would often finish sentences for him. As he approaches 5 years old, the problems is abating significantly.

Just my $.02 - FWIW.

- Dan

[jb]

On this topic, while I was living in South America I met a strange couple; he was from Sweden, she was Japanese, neither spoke the other's native language and they conversed in English.  They had young twin sons, both boys spoke to their mother in Japanese, to their father they spoke Swedish, and when they played in the yard they spoke Spanish to each other, and when I was in the home they spoke English to me.

I thought it was incredible.

[Elen]

I also have a young son who has a delayed speech problem. He is not the fruit of my marriage with Olya, hence, the bi-lingual issue never entered into things

Stummering has a LOT of reasones. But bi-language IS one of them - when kids begin to delay with choice of words at one of language and then it very fast became a "habit" in the cases with small kids (mostly 2-4 years old) That's all what I wanted to say - a possible but not obligatory problem.

[Journeyman]

Thank you everybody for your thoughtful responses to my  question about languages.

I am really pleased to have found this discussion board, and to exchange thoughts with its members.  Definitely, a cut above the other boards (IMHO).  

Journeyman

[BC]

Elen,

Having grown up multi-lingual, there are times where I guess I do stumble over words.. mostly mental blocks or spouting out a 'foreign' word that better 'fits' the thought. Not really stuttering but similar.

The real trick in learning a foreign language is being able to think (and even dream) in the particular language. The more you experience the culture and mentality of the people speaking a language the better you will come across.

It's sort of like machine translation.. without being able to think in a language your brain is constantly translating and reordering words, very much like a computer.. and a lot of nuances are lost.

Kids that grow up bi or multilingual seem to develop the ability to 'think' in other languages much easier, thus even later in life have an easier time picking up a new language.

The benefits of being able to speak a foreign language greatly outweighs minor temporary speech defects

[Elen]

It is all right but I just have an oppotunity to witness how language of mother is slow slipping away right in the case with children but not with adults:? if they vist Russia only one month in year (even if at home both parents speak only on Russian)

[ConnerVT]

I think some of us are missing the point, or at least, reading more in to Elen's comments than what she wrote.  No one is saying that raising a child to be bilingual is a bad thing.  I think we agree it is a benefit.

But it is not without its difficulties.  To learn more than one subject at a time means that less effort is dedicated to any one subject.  But more importantly, as adults we must understand that it is impossible to make any child do as we wish.  Children can possess a level of stubbornness that only a parent can fully appreciate. 

At best, all we can do is put the resources out there for the young ones, and do our best to encourage them and nurture them.  And perhaps, things may turn out as we hope (or better...).

[jb]

Fred, Conner.....

Do you remember the conversation we had years ago about the O.J. Simpson trial?

Well, I finally found the answer,,,

[2tallbill]

Bump

Angel Eyes talks to Mini Me in Russian and I talk to him in English.
He attends a Russian dance class and a Russian arts and crafts class
twice per week where only Russian is spoken by the teachers and students.

He is in Kindergarten and he knows the English and Cyrillic alphabets.

[2tallbill]

Still, I am wondering how this issue has worked out in other Russian-American families. 
Journeyman 

My sister in law Speaks Japanese to her kids and then takes them to Japan
every summer for 3 months for Japanese school. I am really happy my Mom
wasn't Japanese, I would have rebelled.

[Shadow]

My sister in law Speaks Japanese to her kids and then takes them to Japan
every summer for 3 months for Japanese school. I am really happy my Mom
wasn't Japanese, I would have rebelled.

The little Shadows are nearly fluent in 3 languages. This because I speak Dutch to them, MrsShadow Russian and between each other we often speak English.Initially we were worry about the lexicon, but a teacher married to a German husband advised us not to worry. By now both the ShadowJrs are one year ahead of the class in Dutch, and the teachers might be speaking English worse.As a result I also have picked up a lot of Russian.

[ML]

Most all of the Ukrainian folks here in our group are fluent in 3 languages; and are trying to keep this going with their children . . . except probably not Russian so much, now that Putin has been identified as a killer.

One gal can claim fluency in 4 languages, as she got her PhD in France and married a Frenchman.

[2tallbill]

I know plenty of people who know three languages fluently. I've met Catholic priests
who are cRaZy fluent in many languages because they've been missionaries around
the world. I know a priest who was born in India, and he knows some Indian language
(I don't remember which), Spanish, English and Tagalog. He didn't want to come to
America to be a priest.

One day Dec 2004 a GIANT Tsunami came and swept him many miles out to sea. He
began praying and promised that if he lived he would go to the USA and serve as a priest.

He came to my city of Newark California and stayed for 5 years. When he went back to
India he had collected enough money to build a church in the region he lived. I contributed
many kopecks to his endeavor. He is an even better story teller than I am.

The Shadows have three totally different languages. Russian, Dutch and English.
Those three languages are very, very different. It's not like Spanish, Italian and
Portuguese where the languages are all based on Latin. It's not like Ukrainian and
Russian which are both Slavic based nor like Dutch and German which have a lot
of similarities.

When I went to Georgia, there were a few of my friends who knew radically different
languages. One gal was native in Georgian, fluent in Russian like many Georgians,
fluent in English although she could never retell a joke properly so that anyone would
understand it and she knew German and worked at a company that did international
trade with Germany and the USA.

Kids have amazing brains they are little sponges that can learn entire languages
simultaneously without knowing any language to start with.

[Donna_Pedro]

My son speaks english, french and german (has not been used for a while), however what appears to be a problem now is his native Russian. When he comes to visit, we speak a combination of broken russian and english that nobody would understand, he does not have time to read in russian, but he listens to russian books while driving to and from work. His written russian ceased to exist at all. 

[mhr7]

The Shadows have three totally different languages. Russian, Dutch and English.
Those three languages are very, very different. It's not like Spanish, Italian and
Portuguese where the languages are all based on Latin. It's not like Ukrainian and
Russian which are both Slavic based nor like Dutch and German which have a lot
of similarities.

Dutch and English are quite similar, both are West Germanic languages.

[Trenchcoat]

Dutch and English are quite similar, both are West Germanic languages.

True, I've been to the Netherlands and heard Dutch, it is similar sounding to German as is Celtic - Welsh. English too is very similar to German with many similar sounding words (Ich = I, for example). I found German fairly easy to grapple with when I learnt it in High School, French a lot harder even though I spent twice the number of years trying to learn it, six years as opposed to three. Even still I never really gained proficiency in either language beyond the basic really. I think if I had kept learning German though I would have had a much better chance of obtaining proficiency than French.

[Trenchcoat]

My son speaks english, french and german (has not been used for a while), however what appears to be a problem now is his native Russian. When he comes to visit, we speak a combination of broken russian and english that nobody would understand, he does not have time to read in russian, but he listens to russian books while driving to and from work. His written russian ceased to exist at all. 

Donna, I think Russian language would benefit your son far better than French & German. I too have learnt French & German albeit to a basic level. I have hardly ever used either and haven't been to France & Germany a lot. I've been a few times to different parts, Austria a bit also, many speak English although some don't. Too be often though it isn't something I've found any big need for in life. I think I arranged snowboard bindings in German once where they didn't speak English and booked into a cheap Hotel in France to stay over the night, etc. A lot of stuff can be done easily online now through mobile phones and Google translate has come in a lot so it's less needed than before.

Russian has a lot more going for it in my opinion, most French & German women aren't all that interested in dating foreign guys, they have enough prospects in their own country. The more better your son knows Russian the easier it will be for him to date Russian women which is a great pool of women to chose from I think. I also think that more opportunities exist in the FSU. In the west most stuff has been developed and so unless you're lucky to be in a particular area there is little room easily move into a market. In FSU countries though it's all still developing in my opinion so that leaves a lot more room to get in and grow being careful of corruption etc if course.

[ML]

I found German fairly easy to grapple with when I learnt it in High School,

I didn't find it easy at all when I took 2 semesters at beginning of my college days.

I had planned to get degrees in Physics and had found early on that proficiency in either German, French or Russian was required to get Masters and PhD in Physics.

But then I became interested in Engineering . . . and later became interested in Accounting, so Physics fell by the wayside.

German language didn't come back into play for me until I started business trips to Europe.
But most all business people in Europe spoke some English, so didn't really need the German that much.

One interesting time . . . I was waiting at airport for a gal to arrive to spend time with me.  Her plane was delayed several hours, so I went outside where some nice benches were in shade.

Saw a nice looking late 30s gal sitting there, so went up to her and asked if I could sit with her.

She agreed and turned out she was from Austria and waiting for a man whose flight also delayed several hours.

She had some English and I had some German.

We talked for a couple of hours or more combining the two languages and hand signals, etc.

After first hour or so, I told her that if our expected mates didn't show up . . . then the two of us would spend our vacations together.

She said . . . yes, of course.

But then we saw on the board that her man's plane had landed.

My gal's plane also arrived a few minutes later.

But what might have happened otherwise . . . .

[Donna_Pedro]

The more better your son knows Russian the easier it will be for him to date Russian women which is a great pool of women to chose from I think. I also think that more opportunities exist in the FSU. In the west most stuff has been developed and so unless you're lucky to be in a particular area there is little room easily move into a market. In FSU countries though it's all still developing in my opinion so that leaves a lot more room to get in and grow being careful of corruption etc if course.

Thank you. Fortunately his Russian is still enough to chat with girls, but he grew up here, all his friends are americans, here is more of an american anymore than a Russian.  It takes him about a week to start speaking normal Russian language when he goes to Russia to see his dad and the last existing grandma. One dy we went to a consulate of RF to create a Power of Attorney and he had to sign his full name - it took him about 30 minutes, whispering  letters to himself and getting all sweaty from nerves. His own name!! In his mother tongue!

[BC]

Both our kids identify themselves as more Italian than anything else.  They both speak Russian but would no longer be considered truly fluent, especially when it comes to writing.  My wife despite a new passport is staunchly Russian.  Me? Having lived in so many countries, a mixed bag.

I disagree with 'you are what you eat' but do agree with you are the sum of where you lived.

[BBrides]

My wife has been speaking mainly Russian with our daughter since birth and me Dutch. My wife also makes it a point to speak Ukrainian with her as do her grandparents when they are here or when we go to them. And lastly since we do speak English at home still as well, we decided to give all cartoons in English from when she was little to give her another free language.

I was a bit worried when she was little, but everything is fine and she started talking at a normal age and she almost does not mix the languages (unless maybe when she doesn't know a word in the language she is talking in). She is now 5,5 years old and speaks Russian and Dutch fluently and speaks basic English and Ukrainian, but understands everything in English and Ukrainian.   

[2tallbill]

Angel Eyes speaks to Mini-me almost exclusively in Russian, he
also attends a ballroom dance class and an art class twice per
week exclusively spoken in Russian. Angel Eyes wants him to
learn Spanish too.

[ML]

I think most of the above  intentions are off track when deciding what language children should speak.

Best that you enroll your children and grandchildren in Chinese language classes.

China will rule the world in 20 years or less.

Those westerners who can communicate in Chinese will have a leg up in the economic realm.

That's what you want for your offspring . . . right ?

For the sake of your offspring . . . don't be in denial.

[ML]

Not a child . . . but my wife notices that she tends to use a lot of English words when she is talking in Ukrainian with her friends back in the home country.