The Propaganda War

[Doll]

Disgusting
 
 

What exactly is disgusting?

[Boethius]

Did you watch it, Doll?

[Doll]

Not the whole thing but it is just the rock concert- show.
 

[Doll]

Actually, it says it is a BIKE show.
I don't like things like this but somebody does.
Are rock shows in the USA any better?
Same crazy. So what?

[Boethius]

No, it was not just a bike show.  Halfway in, they have two tanks with Ukrainian flags, that they eventually attack.


Ultranationalist and obscure.  But yes, you can see the same things in other countries as well.  I've never seen anything like it in the modern West, though.

[lordtiberius]

A couple of swastikas if I am not mistaken as well, no?

[Boethius]

Yes, a human formation of swastikas, to represent Ukrainians.  Then, mock executions, hangings, a globe with Ukraine and the tryzub in blood, a union of the Ukrainian "fascists" and America, and rescue by terrorists freedom fighters.


To me, it is shocking. 

[lordtiberius]

idk, I like motorcycles but scum is scum and a lot of 'em traffic on 2 wheels whatever the nationality

[Photo Guy]

Ukrainians and especially western Ukrainians are being demonized as fascist radicals. IN that context, refugees from eastern Ukraine are being sent to shelters in western Ukraine where the alleged evil 'fascists' are now giving them aid and shelter. This is the best kind of message to send, a message of compassion:

http://www.kyivpost.com/content/ukraine/western-ukraines-banderstadt-shelters-eastern-ukraines-refugees-359873.html

excerpt:
'...
In Ivano-Frankivsk, non-government youth organisation Etalon is setting an innovative example of cross-sectoral cooperation. People like Tanya from Luhansk can get help right away from representatives of health, education, migration, employment and social services gathered in one room of the Osvita building. Psychologists and lawyers are there to provide counselling. Notices on the walls offer free tours of the town, or trips to the nearby Carpathian mountains. When Tanya arrives, she is at once offered a food package and up to two week’s free stay in the Banderstadt hotel.
The name Banderstadt comes from controversial Ukrainian nationalist leader Stepan Bandera, who lived from 1909-1959, when a KGB agent murdered him in Munich, Germany...'

[Photo Guy]

The problem with that performance, which took place in Crimea, is that it is being broadcast to the people of Russia, with only one goal: propaganda!!!!
How can Russians allow this to happen? If you look at the new government in Ukraine, you will not find fascists or Nazis!! Look at Poroshenko. Yes, I would call him an oligarch, but certainly NOT a fascist. Please refer me to the fascist writings or statements of Poroshenko. The new government in Kiev is quite tolerant, especially in contrast to Putin's government. Russia allows dual citizenship, EXCEPT in 'their' new Crimea. (?!?)
     Russia is WAY more fascist than Ukraine, and yet now we have an extravaganza in Crimea portraying the government in Kiev as 'Nazi'. Russians should be ashamed of this performance. It's sickening. Doll, you find this acceptable???? Yikes! You won't find this kind of propaganda in Kiev against Russia. Ukrainians simply want Russian citizens to stop meddling inside Ukraine and want Ukraine to remain unified. I think that's reasonable. There are basically two types of Russians. 1- those who can see Moscow's manipulations  2- those who are quick to hate and demonize those who are 'separate' from Moscow, in their thinking and actual territory.
     You're wrong, if you see Russians as some sort of superior culture or ethnicity. The Russian culture is no better than the French culture, the German, the Italian, the American, the Polish, etc.   

[Photo Guy]

Russian culture is NOT superior to Ukrainian culture. Russians are not superior to Ukrainians.

[Misha]

Disgusting

Yes, and what is worrisome is that rather than trying to scale back the rhetoric, they are intensifying it to a feverish pitch. This when the Ukrainian Army is gaining even more ground. It makes an all-out war between Russian and Ukraine that much more likely IMVHO as it will make it that harder for Putin to get out of the corner in which he painted himself into and is insisting on adding a second coat just to be sure...

[Photo Guy]

video from Russia: the swastika section:

[lordtiberius]

Yes, and what is worrisome is that rather than trying to scale back the rhetoric, they are intensifying it to a feverish pitch. This when the Ukrainian Army is gaining even more ground. It makes an all-out war between Russian and Ukraine that much more likely IMVHO as it will make it that harder for Putin to get out of the corner in which he painted himself into and is insisting on adding a second coat just to be sure...

If he goes to war, doesn't he loose his money train?  European gas consumers?

[I/O]

If he goes to war, doesn't he loose his money train?  European gas consumers?

I would be highly surprised.

[lordtiberius]

80% of the pipelines run through Ukraine and attacking the infrastructure is what you do in war.  It is number 1 or number 2.  So if there is an invasion, that goes bye bye.  Also MH17 did Putin no favors.  Whether you believe as the world does that he is responsible, or whether you cling to your tin foil hat, the fact is Putin got the blame.  Another invasion and  . . . I mean he just gets further isolated

[I/O]

80% of the pipelines run through Ukraine and attacking the infrastructure is what you do in war.  It is number 1 or number 2.  So if there is an invasion, that goes bye bye.

Quite the opposite. RU isn't about to kill the fatted calf....

[sleepycat]

I think LT means if the Russians are to openly invade, then the Ukrainian army should blow up all the gas pipes.

[Misha]

If he goes to war, doesn't he loose his money train?  European gas consumers?

Putin's main concern is holding onto power at all costs IMVHO. However, these things often take on a life of their own. "Pride goeth before destruction, and an haughty spirit before a fall." The danger is that Putin may begin to believe the propaganda...

[I/O]

then the Ukrainian army should blow up all the gas pipes.

Then UA loses out on taxes - either way, the pipes are safe enough.

[Photo Guy]

If he goes to war, doesn't he loose his money train?  European gas consumers?

Of course!
Putin is Ruining Russia, and one major reason I say that is based on how most of the world perceives him. Back when he 'secretly' poured more Russian troops into Crimea, under the guise of 'Protecting Russian-Speakers', I knew the world would see him as a loose cannon, a leader who cannot be trusted. That will affect the Russian economy, which is part of the world economy.

[Photo Guy]

From the former president of Georgia

excerpt:
'..I had 36 meetings with Putin. At almost each one he repeated that Ukraine is not a real state, but a territory. He was absolutely convinced that Ukraine has only 5 million people like Georgia. And the rest are simply an artificial organization of people. Ukrainians, to his mind, live in Ivano-Frankivsk, in Lviv, and in Volyn, and that’s it..'

full article:
http://euromaidanpress.com/2014/08/10/saakashvili-ukraine-will-be-the-end-of-putin/

[calmissile]

From the former president of Georgia

excerpt:
'..I had 36 meetings with Putin. At almost each one he repeated that Ukraine is not a real state, but a territory. He was absolutely convinced that Ukraine has only 5 million people like Georgia. And the rest are simply an artificial organization of people. Ukrainians, to his mind, live in Ivano-Frankivsk, in Lviv, and in Volyn, and that’s it..'

full article:
http://euromaidanpress.com/2014/08/10/saakashvili-ukraine-will-be-the-end-of-putin/

A must read for anyone interested in Ukraine's future....

[BillyB]

If he goes to war, doesn't he loose his money train?  European gas consumers?

Putin has already made backup plans with China if that happens. Obama and the EU wants to bring a trade war to a gun fight. I'm not convinced that is going to stop Putin from taking part or all of Ukraine. If he orders a full invasion, he'll still be a millionaire many times over and his people who are backing his actions more than ever will gladly accept the financial burden of sanctions believing it's someone other than Putin's fault. Regardless the events, a few years after it's over, everybody will get back to business as usual.

[lordtiberius]

No.  His China deal won't start until 2018.

http://studentreporter.org/2014/07/pivot-to-the-east-demystifying-the-russia-china-natural-gas-deal/