Russian Women Discussion
RWD Discussion Groups => Experienced => Topic started by: KenC on April 02, 2005, 06:16:19 PM
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It is funny that I have married a woman 25 years younger, but I never really looked for a woman much younger than myself. The truth of the matter is that there were only much younger women listed when I was looking into meeting a RW. I was "hooked" by the beauty of my wife. I will admit that the first time I saw her photo, it took my breath away! Her age really didn't matter, but it was her look that got me. Later, after we got to know each other, her personality, classiness, education, moral character and sensuality all made a package made in heaven for me. I just wonder what characteristics of Russian women has attracted others into this process. After all it is much easier to pursue a woman in your own backyard.
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Is anybody going to explain his choice of answer?
like what does that mean "more beautiful woman" (are there no beauthiful women in America?)
What are those "old fashion values of RW" (mystery for me:?)
What for do you need "higher educated women" (if it's such useless thing in America like somebody tried to prove in onother post)
Wonder if anyone will choose "RW were the only ones that would have me"?:D
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Elen,
You probably shouldn't participate in this poll anyway. So don't worry about it.
KenC
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I'm not going to answer what I'm looking for in russian women:P
But this board is not "for males only" place. And I have a right to ask as well. And my question was not OFF topic
And if you don't want (or can't) to explain yourself then it's problem of yours. At least you are not the only one here and may be otheres would not be so "shy"
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I don't think one can narrow an answer down to selecting one of 7 choices. When one falls in love with someone, it is that person's unique characteristics that make them special to the other person. That person could be found next door, or that person could be found on the other side of the world. What is attractive to one man is not to another. What values and morals they have may be important to one but not another. There is no correct answer, and there is no way to quanitate love based on a poll.
Of course the poll is based on what initially attracts a man to a woman, but it does not necessarily translate to love or commitment. It is just the very first step.
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I don't find the choice neede for me...:(
* 8 : i have like the country and the people before think search a wife in these country...
And i have not choice the woman, she have choice me.... i have write to 1000 for present myself and ask to reply if they have interest... i have not read one profil or see one photo, just make a search for woman between 30 and 40 year old without child...
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Wxman,
Of course I ment "initially" attracted to RW. If it were "why did you marry a RW?" I would have had many many more reasons to choose from.
Bruno,
What about your first wife?
KenC
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KenC,
Give it up, Bruno and wxman live on ANOTHER plane of existance than most reasonable men.
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KenC,
Give it up, Bruno and wxman live on ANOTHER plane of existance than most reasonable men.
Typical with people who no longer can add merit to a debate, they must resort to insults. But I do not take it as an insult, as I do not wish to live on your plane of existance. Seems that's where only fools reside.
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Bruno,
What about your first wife?
KenC
Yep, interesting question... she was young and sexy, i have choice her, i have show my confortable life ( in these time, i earn a lot of money for EU, around 5000 euro month )... the alchimy was very good... and we have not think about the future life itself... it was my mistake... now, i have choose and try a other way...
About plane of existance , tiger have right... before, i have life in his plane of existance, a lot of money, luxe hotel, hire plane only for me, champagne, a lot of friend... but now, since i have choice for a "lower" plane, i understand that all this was only illusion... same the friend dissappear with the money, only the true one stay... and i have learn other value in the life who are more important that these artificial value from the "superieur" plane... what plane is better, more reasonable ? Ok, now, i am not so much rich, i cannot buy all i wish, but i have enough for live, same with woman and child... enough for year holliday... i have true friend who like me and not my wallet, i have remove the stress factor of my life, my health grow up, i have more time for friend and family... i think that so life is reasonable for a man...
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Is anybody going to explain his choice of answer?
like what does that mean "more beautiful woman" (are there no beauthiful women in America?)
What are those "old fashion values of RW" (mystery for me:?)
What for do you need "higher educated women" (if it's such useless thing in America like somebody tried to prove in onother post)
Wonder if anyone will choose "RW were the only ones that would have me"?:D
Elen. What was dating like in 1978? Women here who wanted to get married and have a 'cozy home' were in the minority or often would not admit to wanting that. Marriage and family were secondary to career and independence. 'We do not need these men'
was a common idea. Femininity was considered a weakness and
still is to a large degree. If a woman sees you visually admiring her, she will send you the message that she feels uncomfortable, uncomfortable with her attractiveness.
Women with old fashioned values are like women here in the 1950's who appreciated the attention of men. They generally valued their role of mother and home-maker. In the 1960's things changed and women wanted the independence that men had, sexually and otherwise. This resulted in the attainment of a competitive spirit,
and increased competition among couples. Women began wearing pants and valued the aggressiveness that helped them succeed in business and politics. So the phrase, 'old-fashioned values' refers to the 'nurturing' role that women once had. A woman's role now is sort of decided by each individual woman, rather than by the social norm.
I once worked with a woman who wanted to marry her co-worker.
Their plan was to have her continue to work, while he cared for the children. They never did marry. Later she married another man, and she stays at home as a house wife AND works, using her computer at home. People want it all - money from a career AND the values of family and a cozy home. Her husband goes to work everyday, like a traditional husband.
By 'old-fashioned', I guess it means a woman who is okay with her nurturing feminity, rather than an aggressive competitiveness.
Even today, you rarely see AW who openly say they are looking for marriage. It looks extreme or desperate. Here, women are not ever considered 'old maids'. (well maybe if they are 50 and never married) But I have heard that in Russia, if she is over 25 she is possibly considered an old maid. So, you see that also is a major difference. Doug
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Don't know why but I was sure there were more house-wives among AW than among RW.(actually I have not females' friends who dream to stay home as house-wives:?) Also AW have more kids per one women than RW have.
Is not it so?
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Later she married another man, and she stays at home as a house wife AND works, using her computer at home. People want it all - money from a career AND the values of family and a cozy home.
Why "AND" was written with titles? IS there is something unusial to have a career and a family?
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AND was stressed because here in the US, the two roles are not
in harmony with each other. Are they in harmony in Russia?
In Russia, did a married woman have a baby and then immediately go back to work? Could she choose when to return to work? Who would care for the child? Yes AW have more children than RW.
How do RW feel about juggling career and young children? Doug
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In Russia, did a married woman have a baby and then immediately go back to work? Could she choose when to return to work? Who would care for the child? Yes AW have more children than RW.
Doug
Now the law allows women to stay home with child for three years after a birth of child (I mean woman gets money for kid's support from Government (an "amazing" sum about 3$:?) and employer is obligated to keep her former job for her.(in case she would want to return) If you don't want to keep your former job you may stay at home as long as you want (your pension will be only your problem though:?)
Who would care for the child?
We have our grandmoms and kindergarten
How do RW feel about juggling career and young children?
We feel fine:D I can't explain you how but I myself managed to give a birth to my daughter at the last year in the University and get the diploma with fine marks. (And btw we had no nurse and all four grandparents of our child were too young to go to pension and sit home with our child:D)
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[user=134]Photo Guy[/user] wrote:
AND was stressed because here in the US, the two roles are not
in harmony with each other. Are they in harmony in Russia?
In Russia, did a married woman have a baby and then immediately go back to work? Could she choose when to return to work? Who would care for the child? Yes AW have more children than RW.
How do RW feel about juggling career and young children? Doug
From what I experienced in RU it is quite similar to south Italy.. babushka takes care of the kids and both work. Take babushka out of the picture and the balance is tilted.
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Actually the main solutiond with kids is kindergarten. To my mind we had (or still have ?? don't know how things are now) rather good system
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AND was stressed because here in the US, the two roles are not
in harmony with each other. Are they in harmony in Russia?
The reality in Russia was and still is that woman gets almost nothing after a divorce. And as a divorse is not rare thing in Russia woman just must find "harmony" or whatelse there will be for two roles for not feel herself "full depended" on husband's money and for not appear with no money and no worthy job for supporting herself and her kids after probable divorce .
That is those "traditional" and "old fasional for Russia" family values we put in heads of our russian daughters.:D
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Elen - to answer your question "more beautiful woman," what does it mean? When a guy has to pick one out of seven choices presented to him he will pick the thing that mean't the most to him as to what drew him to Russia to find a wife. Guys who pick the choice with more beautiful women are answering that they can attract a prettier girl in Russia than they can in the USA, and thats why they went to Russia.
Polls are very hard to make. You are limited in space. Of course a guy who marries a girl from Russia chooses all of the above and then some. The way I see this poll is that it is polling what initially got you to go over / got you to keep going back. For the women on this board it will give you an insight as to what is most important to Western men on this board (which is probably a decent cross section of the population as a whole).
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For the women on this board it will give you an insight as to what is most important to Western men on this board (which is probably a decent cross section of the population as a whole).
Yeah ! I already got what's important for males in Russia - the ability to find more younger and more beautiful "white" women than you can count on at home:?
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For the women on this board it will give you an insight as to what is most important to Western men on this board (which is probably a decent cross section of the population as a whole).
Yeah ! I already got what's important for males in Russia - the ability to find more younger and more beautiful "white" women than you can count on at home:?[/quote]
So what is the problem with that Elen, supply and demand, Russia has the supply and America the demand, I do not see a problem.
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Gotta love the honesty in the poll. Youth and Beauty winning over education and "percieved" values. :cool:
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Wonder if anyone will choose "RW were the only ones that would have me"?:D
Honestly, It just jumped out at me... My honest answer.
Sure I appreciate the youth and beauty, as any man would. But for my life, here, although I have met and tried to date women here, Most any women I can remember, it is simply a matter to me that they are spoiled.....
Most have grown up with everything they have ever wanted, and they continue to want more. When are they happy with who they are with, and what they have in life.
I find here, with women I have known, that they are simply difficult to please and always seem to want more than I can give them. Or simply want want they can get from me until some better man comes along. Many simply have lost touch with sincerity in the face of family and relationship. Especially if they are younger and attractive. They think they are too good, for a common man.
Don't get me wrong, I am not a bum. I have much to offer, but most women don't give the the chance to show it becuase they judge a man too quickly for what he has..... and what they can benift from being with him.
Although, I have sometimes been used, and abused, by women in Ukraine also, generally women in Russian and Ukraine,, perhaps other countries have a greater appreciation for what they have, because they have worked for it. I believe they can appreciate more what we can offer to them with a relationship. It is my dream, anyway.
I have seen such kindness and caring in the eyes of some women, from my travels, but sadly none have been able to truely open their heart to me. Always it is difficult for them to believe I am sincere man, and I fall second to their life and work in Ukraine. I wait and hope for a women that can understand the sacrifice I make to travel to meet and know her, and who can show me I am also most important in her life. Am I wrong? So, it is why I my search continues.
Noyrt
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I voted for 5 out of 7.
One of them is deceiving because AW are also well educated for the most part.
I could have had AW but chose to search elsewhere, so I did not select number 7.
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You guys do big mistake. As writes one of marriage agencies who sell latin women.
Read on their page (quote from our girl's forum):
2. Why are Colombian women better than Russian women? Russia has the highest divorce rate in the world! Colombia and other Latin countries have the lowest. Russian women were raised in a society where there is no religion and the people have very cold personalities. Latin women are raised with the family and values being the center of everything. The people in Latin America very warm and are much more friendly than even those in the United States. American women are very cold and not family oriented by Latin standards.
[align=left] [/align]
[align=left]3. Are these women as materialistic as American women? Absolutely not! The women in Latin America are typically not materialistic and most live in poverty. We know you will be pleasantly surprised with their honest appreciation of all small gifts, attention and affection they receive.[/align]
[align=left]4. Why can't the women in your agencies find good husbands in their own countries? [/b]They could find a local man but their options are not good and they prefer men from USA and Europe. They think we are more sincere, faithful and hard working. They also find us very different and attractive. Men have to serve in public service away from the women for 4 years. It's the ultimate example of supply and demand being in our favor. There are many more beautiful, single ladies in our locations than quality men to fill the demand. We need supply, that's you, the men.[/font][/align]
[align=left]5. What age women should I be dating? [/b]Age is looked upon differently in Latin America. The higher the age, the more stable and sincere the man. Typically the women are looking for a man 10-20 years older. Here is a quick chart.[/font][/align]
[align=left]Men 25-35 = Women 18-25[/align]
[align=left]Men 36-40 = Women 21-28[/align]
[align=left]Men 41-49 = Women 23-32[/align]
[align=left]Men 50-60 = Women 26-45[/align]
[align=left]6. Do the women just want a Green Card?[/b] Many of our customers retire with their wives in Latin America. Most would be just as happy if you moved there. Most of our women members would follow a man they love, anywhere. This question is usually asked by unhappy married men and American women, they both hate our websites. The American women feel very threatened by it and the married men realize they could have done much better in their choice of a wife. Information is everything and worth more than money! [/size][/align]
[align=left]10. Are the women educated?[/b] Colombians are the most educated people in Latin America. Most women in the agency are in college or have a degree.[/align]
[align=left]11. Do the women have children?[/b] About 30% do have children. If a woman has a child she will marry a much older man. 20-30 years older. This is why you see 50 year old men with young women age 20-23. If you have children it is not a problem, because the women love the family.[/align]
[align=left]14. Why do so many beautiful women want to be in our agency? [/b]They want to meet foreign men. Your looks and age are not important, your personality is. Latin men in Latin America are known for their bad behavior and have many girlfriends on the side. For this reason, even the families want their daughters to find a man from outside Latin America.[/align]
[align=left]17. Should I send money if a woman asks for it? Don't do it! A nice Latin woman would never ask for money, especially if you are not engaged or married. A nice Latin woman will never ask you how much you make either. [/align]
[align=left]22. How important are my looks? Most studies show that men seek beauty, and Latin women seek mature, older, healthy, and stable men with the ability to provide for the family. The women need someone they can depend on. Your personality will be the most important factor.[/align]
http://www.barranquillasbest.com/colombian_women.html (http://www.barranquillasbest.com/colombian_women.html)
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Come on Fiorella, "You guys do big mistake. As writes one of marriage agencies who sell latin women," you know better than to believe everything you read. Besides, guys going to Russia are looking for white women.
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Elen,
Some of us (men) are NOT attracted to latin ladies additionally there is the traditional latin temperment which many men do not care for, hence we look to the FSU.
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Elen,
Some of us (men) are NOT attracted to latin ladies additionally there is the traditional latin temperment which many men do not care for, hence we look to the FSU.
Hey, TigerPaws! I am not Elen! :dude:
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Hey, TigerPaws! I am not Elen! :dude:
Sorry you sound alike
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Hey, TigerPaws! I am not Elen! :dude:
Sorry you sound alike
[/quote]I am very soft, warm and friendly person. To people who are friendly to me.
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Me too.:D
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Latin woman are very interesting... specialy when young... but when they are 30 year old and more, they have more body hair that me... and i don't like woman with beard :D:D:D
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NOTE: Originally there was a poll that went with this thread but it died probably
with one of the many tech updates that the forum software must go through.
I thought that I should resurrect the thread and let others list their reasons
for seeking a Russian or FSUW.
Yeah ! I already got what's important for males in Russia - the ability to find more younger and more beautiful "white" women than you can count on at home:?
So what is the problem with that Elen, supply and demand, Russia has the supply and America the demand, I do not see a problem.
That's one of my primary reasons for looking for a Russian/FSU woman.
For my age when I became single many years ago, there were a number
of attractive American women who wanted to date me. HOWEVER, the
percentage of non spoiled and not cRaZy AW declined with each year.
When you start dating AW who are over 40 you start to realize how many of
them took hormone birth control for decades and many of them also took
mind altering chemicals for anxiety, depression and a multitude of other
ailments both real and imagined.
So when you start to look at the unmarried Western women you filter out the
fat, ugly and baggage then start sifting through those who remain to get rid
of the women who are not mentally or emotionally challenged and those
remaining who actually want a marriage and family become fewer
and fewer each year.
If you are over 40 and seeking a 35 year and over Russian women (or other
FSU country) then you find that they have a zillion attractive, thin, educated,
noncrazy women who really, really want a marriage and family.
For Men in their 40's and up there are very few places in the world where there
is such a disparity of women who want to get married and men who are willing
to marry them.
That doesn't mean that you can't go there and have your kidney's harvested if
you don't keep your wits about you. It also doesn't mean that there aren't Russian/
FSU women who aren't crazy, evil psychopaths because you can definitely find them
or they can find you.
Go to the FSU and a smorgasbord of opportunity awaits.
Above all look for a good girl.
Udachi!
Bill
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I had travelled extensively to Ukraine and Russia, as well as many other places on business trips for 20 years or more.
After my divorce from AW, I knew that I would go to FSU to find a new mate.
I knew I could go to economically disadvantaged places and achieve what I couldn't in USA.
That is . . . a good looking slender woman who was significantly younger than myself who would have many years of sexual desire left.
And this woman would also be highly intelligent and educated, enjoy cultural things, and be comfortable with both city and country living.
Yes, of course, there are such women in USA . . . but they would not accept me, and they wouldn't have to because there is no economic advantage for me in USA.
I ruled out other economically disadvantaged places because . . . Philippines (not tall enough) . . . South America (too volatile and become hefty over time) . . . China and other Asian countries (too much cultural and mind set differences).
I decided to focus on Ukraine rather than Russia because . . . I am both lazy and efficient. Ukraine provides visa free entry for citizens of USA . . . and I correctly (as it turned out) predicted that peace between USA and Russia would not last.
As it turned out, just by luck . . . I ended up with a gal who actually was not economically disadvantaged. And, she chose me, rather than the other way around.
She simply said 11 years or so ago: I am coming to USA to live in your house while I pursue a Masters in Business degree.
While taking a year of Intensive English, she sat in on some Math courses, and was offered full scholarship for Masters in Math.
She completed that degree, taught full time for 4 years at the same university (mostly Multivariable Calculus, and Differential Equations).
And then, at my urging, began pursuing PhD in Math. All coursework done now, and doing research to find dissertation topic.
Times have not always been smooth for us . . . but we have survived mostly because she is generally calm and collected, and recovers from anger against me within a few hours . . . with a couple of exceptions that lasted 3-4 days (complete silence is their weapon), where I was ready to call it quits and told her so. I might actually do it the next time a multiday event occurs.
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Anyone excluding RW because of their govt would be akin to me saying, " I won't holiday in America while Trump is President"...
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Anyone excluding RW because of their govt would be akin to me saying, " I won't holiday in America while Trump is President"...
Big difference in 'peace between countries' and just 'not personally liking a country's leader.'
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I had travelled extensively to Ukraine and Russia, as well as many other places on business trips for 20 years or more.
After my divorce from AW, I knew that I would go to FSU to find a new mate.
I knew I could go to economically disadvantaged places and achieve what I couldn't in USA.
That is . . . a good looking slender woman who was significantly younger than myself who would have many years of sexual desire left.
And this woman would also be highly intelligent and educated, enjoy cultural things, and be comfortable with both city and country living.
Yes, of course, there are such women in USA . . . but they would not accept me, and they wouldn't have to because there is no economic advantage for me in USA.
I ruled out other economically disadvantaged places because . . . Philippines (not tall enough) . . . South America (too volatile and become hefty over time) . . . China and other Asian countries (too much cultural and mind set differences).
I decided to focus on Ukraine rather than Russia because . . . I am both lazy and efficient. Ukraine provides visa free entry for citizens of USA . . . and I correctly (as it turned out) predicted that peace between USA and Russia would not last.
As it turned out, just by luck . . . I ended up with a gal who actually was not economically disadvantaged. And, she chose me, rather than the other way around.
She simply said 11 years or so ago: I am coming to USA to live in your house while I pursue a Masters in Business degree.
While taking a year of Intensive English, she sat in on some Math courses, and was offered full scholarship for Masters in Math.
She completed that degree, taught full time for 4 years at the same university (mostly Multivariable Calculus, and Differential Equations).
And then, at my urging, began pursuing PhD in Math. All coursework done now, and doing research to find dissertation topic.
Times have not always been smooth for us . . . but we have survived mostly because she is generally calm and collected, and recovers from anger against me within a few hours . . . with a couple of exceptions that lasted 3-4 days (complete silence is their weapon), where I was ready to call it quits and told her so. I might actually do it the next time a multiday event occurs.
I always admired how you don't sugar coat stuff.
My personal opinion between FSU women is that it is just easier to hook up, i have a lot of options which wouldn't be so in the West. I could find someone in the west, but i am not hunting for a wife. I am hunting for experiences, if a nice girl appears, and is of value, i would hold on. FSU in my experience is a place most men could be duped into buying into.
You have an economic advantage, but a language barrier, culture barrier, you compensate with your wallet. Not really rocket science. I was telling my brother yesterday, i prefer actually going with 7-8's in FSU, rather than 9's (I been with 9's). 7 and 8's are easy to maintain, take them out few times a week, a dress here and there, pay for their medical bills if arises, taxi's to come to meet you, and you would beat majority of men in the FSU, without breaking bank. You will have a beautiful woman, and can focus on your work, and earn more.
A lot of men go for 9's, yet forget looks fade with age (quickly). I am starting to understand what FSU men mean when they judge a woman based on the way she looks and say , look for a simple woman.
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Very well said Japs.
I much prefer the dating game in the FSU to the west. For me the dating game in the west has too much bs attached to it. In the FSU I get the impression that girls are more open to dates from many guys, why? Because their all trying to find that one gem of a guy who can provide well for them in a pile that can't, that and its the way they are brought up out there. I'm not saying that won't say no to a guy but it's in their favour to be more free and easy than western women. Women out there don't see a date as a big deal here they think it's should be done hurdle or something.
Women out in the FSU follow the traditional dating/marriage scene that we had in the 50s etc and before and probably tailed off around the 80s mostly. So the man goes out to work and provide and the woman stays at home. This isn't always as idillic as it may sound to those of us tired of the feminist times we live in today. It can leave a guy as a wage slave and spending too little time with the family. I spoken to a Russian guy who said he would spend all his time at work if he could. Western society on the other hand is too messed up for many relationships to work well. Traditionally here the man just works 5 days a week not all 7, I'm not sure that's the case in the FSU with the women maybe expecting nearer the 7 particularly for guys who aren't that wealthy lol.
So yeah just more easier dating. Admittedly I'm still not that great at turfing up the girls for a date in the FSU but I still do way better than in the UK.
I think Russia is probably actually easier for a newbie to score a girl suitable for marriage in a shorter period of time than in Ukraine so long as they avoid Moscow and St Petersburg and few newbies do that. Ukraine has a lot of fun attractive women but it takes most guys a fair while to become familiar with all the shenanigans going on.
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As a side note and picking up from what Japs was saying about 7-8s & 9-10s I have wondered more of late if girls that are in the 9-10 category (or even 8 as well) might struggle more in the dating world in the FSU than they do in the west. Basically that as there aren't many guys around with the money to satisfy them they end up single. That their amazing prettyness actually screws up their chances of getting with a guy since they expect too much (princess syndrome) and so the bad attitude the develop as such screws up every relationship they get into, that they actually want to get married to a guy but they just keep messing it up with the attitude they've developed. Any thoughts?
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I have wondered more of late if girls that are in the 9-10 category (or even 8 as well) might struggle more in the dating world in the FSU than they do in the west. Basically that as there aren't many guys around with the money to satisfy them they end up single.
Wife and her first husband became friends with a fairly wealthy British guy.
He had met and married a Ukrainian woman who came in 2nd in Miss Ukraine contest one year.
They split after 5-6 years, but then she married a member (distant perhaps) of Kuwait royalty.
Wife said one time she and the woman were walking down street in a Greek town on one of the islands.
The men clapped when they walked by . . . and she knew it wasn't for herself.
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To be honest there are 9 to 10's without the princess syndrome, you got some 6's that have it. I remember one woman, i didn't find her attractive, i just wanted to hook up, she was flipping out on me, telling me i need to buy her flowers, trying to boss me about (i turn up usually with flowers or some perfume, if i like the person). I forgot exactly what she said , but something along the lines of 'i am a beautiful , and intelligent woman', so i did the most mature thing, sent her a bunch of pictures of images of me with 9's and 10's, then told her, who are you? repeatedly, she couldn't respond, she started just using cheap remarks etc, but she couldn't respond with the 'i am beautiful and intelligent'
There were some 9's i been with that were great women, before i even met them, they would top up my phone, make sure my trip in ukraine was stress free, take care of small issues, so i could focus on my work. I am not sure if i was fair in judging 9 to 10 category, but it is very general. It is pitful when you see a woman go over 30, you can tell she was a clear 9 to 10's when she was in her early 20's, now she is eager for a relationship, and looking for anything, her looks she realises are fading, she hasn't got much time left.
People who focus on their income (men or women), are always going to win longterm, people who rely on their looks (mostly women), are going to lose longterm. When i approach anything serious, such as marriage, i always look in the longterm.
Is this person mentally stable?
Has she got the drive to keep herself pretty when she is 50?
Does she actually appreciate me?
Does she want to start a family with me? (Big way to tell if a woman loves you, or loves that you can get her out of the FSU)
Are we sexually compatible? (I never had an issue, i just remember one woman in my past who was a clean freak, and wouldn't do anything to extreme)
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Big difference in 'peace between countries' and just 'not personally liking a country's leader.'
Most of my life Moscow has been at odds with the UK and US policy... It should not be a influence re a partner, to me...
This is a very subjective criteria.
My wife's Dad would have been classified 'Muslim', by some..
Such, stigmas, to me, simply reduce one's choices.
Time was when US citizens could easily get 3 or 5 yr RU visas when the UK it was 6 mths or a year..
As a result, most lazy guys opt for Ukraine...There's nought wrong with Ukraine...One is just leaving more chances to find a lady from Russia for other chaps..
They don't all vote for VVP or bother TO vote...If that was your 'objection!, ML
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OK, so now we have two guys ...who have never been married to an FSU W speaking as if they are 'experts'?....
Trench,
Intelligent FSU lasses are more akin to their western counterparts...They work at a career, have kids later, as they marry, later..
Your notion of the man providing and the woman stating at home is largely gone, due to the need for both partners to work to survive.
Given your 'success' with FSU ladies, I fail to see how you arrive at your 'conclusions'..
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Moby,
Many roads lead to Rome. You describe the one you took but that does not mean other roads do not work just as well.
You often describe yours as superior, but alas it is the only one you know.
Let's keep it at that and move on to more constructive thoughts.
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I am 'sorry, BC...
It is not the only road I know or took.
Hence, I suggest VM sucks... having worn the t-shirt...If you are confident and have the time...VO, everytime.
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Well i had more experience with FSUW than you
I seriously doubt that, given I can actually communicate with them, and interact with them on a level whereby sexual conquest is not on the agenda.
also active experience with the current climate, things are very different
'Yes, yes'..I do not have a FSU step son and do not communicate with 30 something FSU folk on a daily basis.
I readily admit, I haven't set foot in Ukraine for over two years, but I hardly think any changes with the scene in Russia or other FSU nations are drastically different.
I was party to a online session where the theme was dating a westerner, just three weeks ago..( Sochi English Club)
I was invited with a few other westerners with RU partners and RU folk with western partners..
I been with more intelligent women than yourself (fact)
I dated a professor of language methodology, a woman the ran the news channel for a UA TV company..
These were/ are intelligent ladies..
I believe their age makes them smarter than your age group..
My 'mileage is greater and over a much longer period
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Thanks for your opinion and for sharing your experience Moby.
Despite being 'taken', I'm happy to hear about the experiences of others, on different paths than the one I took.
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I am 'sorry, BC...
It is not the only road I know or took.
Hence, I suggest VM sucks... having worn the t-shirt...If you are confident and have the time...VO, everytime.
Is that to say you think you would not be with your wife if you had just met her for a lunch date first time (on a VM) as opposed to a lot of communication beforehand and a date style first visit (as in VO)?
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I think one important point here is that many FSW will get with a guy, sleep with him, marry him, have kids with him even though they are not into him. They will make out they are just to be with a guy who can support them. Such is the system out there, a girl without a guy is likely facing hardship in old age and possibly hardship in life, poverty levels of unemployment benefit, poverty levels of state pension, no children meaning no chance of extra support in old age unless from siblings or relatives, etc.
So like Japs says money is the main thing out there. I've seen the mentality where its, 'more money, more money, more money' with them all the time and I don't just mean in relationships.
There will of course be some exceptions, some girls will manage to get a job high up in finance etc where they won't need to rely on a guy but for most I think many except and are brought up into excepting a partner as a practical rather than necessarily a romantic connotation.
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Hence, I suggest VM sucks
But, it's totally off topic. This is a why FSUW thread.
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So like Japs says money is the main thing out there.
No, it absolutely is not. It may be for Ukrainian women seeking foreign men, but it definitely is not true for Ukrainian women in general. It is far easier to live in Ukraine on a relatively small income than it is in the West. An overwhelming majority of UW marry UM. UW seeking foreign men do so for their own reasons, and often, a primary reason is economic. So, listening to their stories about why they are seeking a WM is going to be self serving.
japtats' view is formed by his life experiences, as well as his experiences with FSUW. It doesn't mean it is a universal truth. He is living in Ukraine as a foreigner. The culture is foreign to him. Their ideas are foreign to him. The way they think is foreign to him. That's not a criticism, it holds true for any foreigner in Ukraine, unless they come from another FSU country. So, it is living in two solitudes. We absorb the customs and ideas of where we grew up, and, even if we reject them, they are still part of us, often in ways we don't acknowledge or even recognize.
This post was composed without the aid of google.
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There is a class system in the FSU, more than so in the west
I never claimed there wasn't. There was one in Soviet times, too. It is pretty much unchanged since then, even the players are the same.
If you read my posts, some of which are words from men that are ukrainian. Only man i found that said FSUW souls are deep etc, was a 20 year old ukrainian guy who just returned from ukraine from living in spain, and honestly talking to him, i felt he wasn't really clued up on women. The rest reiterate what i say.
Yes, but two things:
1. Ukrainians will tell you what they think you want to hear, or what will benefit them. This is even the case with FSU individuals who move here. I cannot tell you how many times the better half has met FSU individuals, starts speaking with them in Russian or Ukrainian, and they ask if he is from here or there. He used to say "there", but now says "here". He finds it more entertaining, because they tell him lies they would never spout if they knew he was from there.
Between my family and the better half's, we have male cousins (some, children of cousins), ages 18 to 50, from the border of Western Ukraine to Kharkiv, from Chernihiv to Odesa. What you have posted would be foreign ideas to them.
Very true, the mentality is toxic, hence why FSU people tell me i don't understand the dark side of the FSU. But i do get the feel for it. Not a pretty place to be in.
It's not toxic. It's just foreign to you.
I think it is important i state my truth, before i get misquoted, like i told you, and many others, i believe most FSUW are happy when basics in life are covered, rent, bills, medical bills, trips here and there, nothing really extravagant (depending on the type of person). They are more interested in way you look, quality of sex (You may disagree, but it is very big in the FSU).
I think sex is important to most people, world over. Physical attraction is very subjective. There will be UW who will find you attractive, and others that don't. Every pot eventually finds a lid.
This post was composed without the aid of google.
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There is no benefit in men lying to me that women left them because of money, cheated on them. There is a reason why there is a 'gift' mentality for men when dating FSUW. I discussed this with western women, who noticed it also when dating FSUM in the West, guys were very respectful and such, but randomly buy them gifts, take care of bills when not even asked. For them it was normal.
Nephew is late thirties, married. Never bought his wife anything other than flowers. Cousin is 23, recently married. Also never bought his wife anything more than flowers. Other cousin just turned 21. Buys opera and theater tickets for dates, but that's it. Not even flowers. He is not serious about anyone.
Very much toxic to categorise people based on their level of education and finances. And not look at them as actual people, mentality here is weird as hell.
And this is different from the West, exactly how?
This post was composed without the aid of google.
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Nephew if late thirties, married. Never bought his wife anything other than flowers. Cousin is 23, recently married. Also never bought his wife anything more than flowers. Other cousin just turned 21. Buys opera and theater tickets for dates, but that's it. Not even flowers. He is not serious about anyone.
I been to FSU for around 9 years on and off, not buying stuff worked prior, heck probably would do, but it is still common. In the West rarely do we buy flowers, hence why you see florists often in FSU in every street corner, but hardly in the West. Gift mentality is there.
And this is different from the West, exactly how?
By a big stretch, but then again, i don't associate with FSU people in the West.
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I been to FSU for around 9 years on and off, not buying stuff worked prior, heck probably would do, but it is still common. In the West rarely do we buy flowers, hence why you see florists often in FSU in every street corner, but hardly in the West. Gift mentality is there.
My BIL buys flowers for my sister routinely. He is Canadian. He's always done this, from when they were in high school until now, and they have grown children (teens). In Ukraine, flowers are routinely taken by people visiting others as a gift. That's not something routinely done in the West.
There are small flower shops in every mall in my city, in addition to stand alone buildings. I doubt there are significantly more flower shops in Ukraine, it's just that they aren't as concentrated.
By a big stretch, but then again, i don't associate with FSU people in the West.
I was referring to Westerners in the West, and Western attitudes, not the attitudes of FSU individuals living in the West. However, that does tell me the type of Ukrainians with whom you are interacting. Not surprising, as I assume they all speak English to a greater or lesser degree.
This post was composed without the aid of google.
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Very true, the mentality is toxic, hence why FSU people tell me i don't understand the dark side of the FSU. But i do get the feel for it. Not a pretty place to be in.
It's not toxic. It's just foreign to you.
So what is your goal in Ukraine, if the inhabitants are 'toxic' to you?
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So what is your goal in Ukraine, if the inhabitants are 'toxic' to you?
To become intoxicated, obviously.
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To become intoxicated, obviously.
Perhaps our hero has a low tolerance to Vodka?
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Anyway, back onto the subject at hand I would also like to add less fat chicks to the list. I personally don't see why I should be bothered with a girl who can't even be bothered to keep herself in reasonable condition for me. All my life I have never been fat so I know it is not a big task to not become fat. It's not even a case of having to do the gym it's just a case of normal eating too stay normal size and I've always found a normal intake off food satisfying enough. I just see a girl who doesn't want to keep in shape through eating normally as being disrespectful to a guy she wishes to date as if he is not worth just eating normally for like everyone should usually do. To my mind it's minimal effort to change a diet to eating less fatty foods, etc so if a girl can't be bothered even with that for a guy then I can't be bothered with her.
A lot of fat western women are like, 'you've got to accept this' (big flabby a*se) and I'm like 'no actually I don't'. They can't believe I don't show any interest back but the truth is I would rather live a single life than give in to women who think I have no other option than to accept their not bothering to eat a reasonable diet. I couldn't do that too myself let alone risk passing on bad genetics too any offspring. Some women are if course fat through a bad habit that had developed rather than genetics but either way I expect her to not have a trashed bod.
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You really miss the point. The point is not that you have to date a fat woman, if you're not attracted nor interested, Trench. It is that you have to accept her as she is if you wish to date her.
This post was composed without the aid of google.
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.
However, that does tell me the type of Ukrainians with whom you are interacting. Not surprising, as I assume they all speak English to a greater or lesser degree.
This post was composed without the aid of google.
Men and women, yes , and also I might add , can't trust the doctors here , reading reviews , many doctors misdiagnose on purpose , do not treat the issue, so they can get money long-term. I went on a date with someone whose mother was a doctor , and said the same thing , reading reviews , same thing .
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So what is your goal in Ukraine, if the inhabitants are 'toxic' to you?
Get my tattoos done, work on my skills in my field to help more people, and return to the gym once my tattoos are done. I am not wife hunting, I am dating someone , won't cheat on her (i had the chance last night) , see what life throws at me.
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Thanks for your opinion and for sharing your experience Moby.
Despite being 'taken', I'm happy to hear about the experiences of others, on different paths than the one I took.
Good morning, BC!
Do you think I'm not? ;)
I readily admit I tease Beel about VO v VM.. but I am quite serious when someone with relatively less 'experience' of life in former FSU posts conclusions seriously at variance to mine over nearly 20 years living amongst them, either in Cyprus, Ukraine, Russia or Georgia.
There are those that feel the need to post of 'sexual encounters and others who are 'taken' and it is a given ( apart from me, of course!) that they enjoy games for two.
Why a 'Russian' woman? Because..if you look after them..
That's all that needs to be said.
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Anyway, back onto the subject at hand I would also like to add less fat chicks to the list. I personally don't see why I should be bothered with a girl who can't even be bothered to keep herself in reasonable condition for me. All my life I have never been fat so I know it is not a big task to not become fat. It's not even a case of having to do the gym it's just a case of normal eating too stay normal size and I've always found a normal intake off food satisfying enough. I just see a girl who doesn't want to keep in shape through eating normally as being disrespectful to a guy she wishes to date as if he is not worth just eating normally for like everyone should usually do. To my mind it's minimal effort to change a diet to eating less fatty foods, etc so if a girl can't be bothered even with that for a guy then I can't be bothered with her.
A lot of fat western women are like, 'you've got to accept this' (big flabby a*se) and I'm like 'no actually I don't'. They can't believe I don't show any interest back but the truth is I would rather live a single life than give in to women who think I have no other option than to accept their not bothering to eat a reasonable diet. I couldn't do that too myself let alone risk passing on bad genetics too any offspring. Some women are if course fat through a bad habit that had developed rather than genetics but either way I expect her to not have a trashed bod.
Trench, there is no law, rule or convention stating you have to date any
woman of any type. Let's say you ONLY like red heads. There is nobody who
is going to make you date blondes or brunettes. So I don't see why you are
making a long winded argument that you do.
Make yourself a personal list of what you are looking for in the Future
Mrs. Trench then spend all your time trying to find a good girl with those
traits that likes you back.
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Trench, there is no law, rule or convention stating you have to date any
woman of any type.
It is transphobic to not date a transgender woman, if someone truly accepts someone's gender, they would have no issues with dating someone transgender. Same with Race, same with the fat acceptance movement. The far left movement is always pushing the boundaries, on what is and not acceptable.
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'OK'...so the current Roman Catholic Pope is a (far) 'lefty' as was David Cameron, the UK's PM for six years...The Right of centre Tory govt. made same sex marriages legal.
It is astounding, to me, how people are discussing gender issues as if they are left or right issues.
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Ukrainians will tell you what they think you want to hear, or what will benefit them. This is even the case with FSU individuals who move here. I cannot tell you how many times the better half has met FSU individuals, starts speaking with them in Russian or Ukrainian, and they ask if he is from here or there. He used to say "there", but now says "here". He finds it more entertaining, because they tell him lies they would never spout if they knew he was from there.
I can confirm Boe's words. I also have observed a tendency for FSU folk to say what you (foreigner) want to hear. Not to get benefits, but rather to demonstrate courtesy, avoid unnecessary disputes etc. There is a tendency to support established mythology about FSU life, just to facilitate talk and keep it in right direction especially if English proficiency is not perfect.
And of course, Boethius knows about FSUW a lot, she is herself part of FSUW in some ways, so this discussion looks ridiculous for me. A man made tatoos, have many chats with random girls, may be slepts with many. Still he knows about them nothing, in my view, just shaped superficial glance as a tourist. Though travel notes are entertaing too, no question.
Besides, a person tends to attract not quite random speakers in conversations. The company depends on man's life style, interests, personal mindset.
I would listen to men who happily married for long time, they know something about FSUW, for sure ;).
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'OK'...so the current Roman Catholic Pope is a (far) 'lefty' as was David Cameron, the UK's PM for six years...The Right of centre Tory govt. made same sex marriages legal.
It is astounding, to me, how people are discussing gender issues as if they are left or right issues.
Only place I found against same sex marriages , is people in the FSU . I remember recent girl I was seeing , was shouting on the phone, because her friends decided to go to a gay march , and start a fight with the protestors , as they hate same sex relations
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You really miss the point. The point is not that you have to date a fat woman, if you're not attracted nor interested, Trench. It is that you have to accept her as she is if you wish to date her.
This post was composed without the aid of google.
That is a difficult one to answer, it's akin to saying would I continue in a relationship with a woman if she got significantly fat. I wouldn't know until in that position but I don't think it would be good for the relationship. Similarly if a guy got significantly fat it would likely be bad for the relationship as the woman would not like it. Other variants of this are if either side starts significantly drinking, gambling, maybe stops working and instead decides to play videogames all day, etc, etc. I don't think any of the above issues are particular to either sex and either sex has been known to walk on any of these.
There is then the case of whether a guy (or girl) would accept a person who already was this way. Again it would not be great and I would tend to rather look elsewhere as I don't think I could accept a woman that way to date her. As has been said before we are all superficial but I believe that the outer self can be a reflection of the inner character. So often a significantly fat person can mean a person with bad habits and hence character flaws. They may be able to fix those bad habits and character flaws long term or they may not. I think whether they have those character flaws by genetics or environment is crucial in that. People are not perfect but those with significantly bad character flaws are not great people to be with in my opinion.
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I can confirm Boe's words. I also have observed a tendency for FSU folk to say what you (foreigner) want to hear. Not to get benefits, but rather to demonstrate courtesy, avoid unnecessary disputes etc.
I very much doubt men would fabricate stories of being cheated on, expressing views of disliking their own women, tell me stories of how they spent all their money pleasing a woman, and she walking out, because she disliked his city. I remember my ex fiance, she told me of the stories of her ex's, how they would cheated on, it was cold, some of those stories blew my mind, it would be okay if it was 1/10, but it was very prevelant. She would laugh and say, 'well that is moscow'.
And of course, Boethius knows about FSUW a lot, she is herself part of FSUW in some ways
Things has changed in last couple of decades
Besides, a person tends to attract not quite random speakers in conversations. The company depends on man's life style, interests, personal mindset.
I would listen to men who happily married for long time, they know something about FSUW, for sure ;).
Well my lifestyle, women i go for (looks wise), are very different from most people. I do relate with one guy, a 25 year old (no tattoos), resides in West, but has oligarch roots in FSU. He often buys presents for first dates, will court many women, he bought my ex fiance (after we split), a Gucci perfume for their first date (It is how FSU men roll, who are not scared to spend a bit, so they don't waste time). Good looking chap (for FSU standards on typical white male, suit, etc, but scrawny which was one of her complaints on FSUM).
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I can confirm Boe's words.
It is funny, but i known Beo for maybe a decade now, when i first got into FSU scene, she warned me of the dangers of the FSU culture, it isn't as bad as she made it out to be, but for sure it is different, not somewhere i would like to spend my life in, she also warned me raising children here would adopt the FSU mentality , way she described in in somewhat toxic (Maybe not using the word toxic). But one thing i have notice is she holds men who exploit the FSU scene, due to income differences between western and FSU countries in low regard. I don't blame her, it is very different to her story of finding love, we all walk different paths in life.
My path, and a lot of western men paths, would be different to the path she took, same as my path would be different to many western men, way i look, type of women i go for etc We will all have different paths.
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Only place I found against same sex marriages , is people in the FSU . I remember recent girl I was seeing , was shouting on the phone, because her friends decided to go to a gay march , and start a fight with the protestors , as they hate same sex relations
Naturally, they are 30 years behind the curve ... When I was in my 20's *I* thought Maggie Thatcher's Section 28 was a 'good' idea ..
What an IDIOT I was ...
http://www.bbc.co.uk/bbcthree/article/cacc0b40-c3a4-473b-86cc-11863c0b3f30
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Well my lifestyle, women i go for (looks wise), are very different from most people. I do relate with one guy, a 25 year old (no tattoos), resides in West, but has oligarch roots in FSU. He often buys presents for first dates, will court many women, he bought my ex fiance (after we split), a Gucci perfume for their first date (It is how FSU men roll, who are not scared to spend a bit, so they don't waste time). Good looking chap (for FSU standards on typical white male, suit, etc, but scrawny which was one of her complaints on FSUM).
On the face of it a very clever move, the girl would see it as the guy being able to provide well seeing that he is willing to give that on a first date when she is still much of a stranger. The girl would also probably feel even more obliged to put out at the end of the dinner date so if she is hot then a good night can be had. Probably even cheaper than paying for a pro lol, not that I use them I wouldn't feel good about myself as I have my standards.
Thing is with that approach is that the guy will likely be in the boat of likely not ever really knowing if she feels anything for him at all or just with him for the money/because she gets stuff. That's ok if the guy is happy with that deal but it bats it off on that front from the offset without being able to find out if the girl is genuinely into him. So on that front it's the guy buggering it up rather than the girl. If a guy just pays for the dinner date and she sleeps with him then it could mean anything from a kind courtesy towards the guy to being into him but theirs a fair chance she won't get with the guy if she feels he is too much of a turn off.
If he is scrawny then maybe he has decided that top level women will only get with him if he bases it on money. I believe like you do Japs that it's a big theme out in the FSU. Maybe less so for 4-5 looks women or less as even if they are they know they know they will only likely get a guy who can pay the bills of everyday living so they'll probably look to see if he is a decent guy also who won't slap them around, etc.
I suspect being scrawny out in the FSU is not a great sign for FSW (as is being fat on the other end). It is probably associated with weakness, poor genetics, lack of being able to afford food, not very masculine looking, etc. I know not all Russians are like this, some can be very well built, the body builder types, but they eat a lot, for lunch they will eat like three or four ham baps while I just eat a couple of thin sandwiches lol.
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On the face of it a very clever move, the girl would see it as the guy being able to provide well seeing that he is willing to give that on a first date when she is still much of a stranger. The girl would also probably feel even more obliged to put out at the end of the dinner date so if she is hot then a good night can be had. Probably even cheaper than paying for a pro lol, not that I use them I wouldn't feel good about myself as I have my standards.
TIme is money, hence why better to use a cheap investment, to speed up the process (small gift, i use flowers/erfume, prefer perfume ($15), as if the woman reschedules, it is fine, flowers die however.
That's ok if the guy is happy with that deal but it bats it off on that front from the offset without being able to find out if the girl is genuinely into him.
He, as well as i, know we can get laid without small gestures. he is a decent looking chap, young, well off, he isn't overthinking stuff. He just knows, if your game is to find someone genuine, stick to the west, there is no wealth difference, you will know a woman is genuinely into you. WHy go to the FSU, and play charades in guessing if she is or not into you.
My brother cringed at me going to the FSU, till it hit him, and he told his friend 'going to these countries and getting women, is like you earning 10k a month, as a footballer'. No different, you don't see footballers (most don't), dress is rags, trying to find a girl happy to go on a date with him at MC Donalds.
I suspect being scrawny out in the FSU is not a great sign for FSW (as is being fat on the other end). It is probably associated with weakness, poor genetics, lack of being able to afford food, not very masculine looking, etc. I know not all Russians are like this, some can be very well built, the body builder types, but they eat a lot, for lunch they will eat like three or four ham baps while I just eat a couple of thin sandwiches lol.
More to do with laziness, women often joked with me, it is hard to find a man who can last more than 5mins in bed. FSUM are generally not built, guys you see in the gym , are very well built, they are probably running some high dosages of steroids. FSU mentality is to do stuff to the extremes, they don't mess around. Most of the guys don't go to the gym , but if they do , they go full out
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On the face of it a very clever move, the girl would see it as the guy being able to provide well seeing that he is willing to give that on a first date when she is still much of a stranger. The girl would also probably feel even more obliged to put out at the end of the dinner date so if she is hot then a good night can be had. Probably even cheaper than paying for a pro lol, not that I use them I wouldn't feel good about myself as I have my standards.
Thing is with that approach is that the guy will likely be in the boat of likely not ever really knowing if she feels anything for him at all or just with him for the money/because she gets stuff. That's ok if the guy is happy with that deal but it bats it off on that front from the offset without being able to find out if the girl is genuinely into him. So on that front it's the guy buggering it up rather than the girl. If a guy just pays for the dinner date and she sleeps with him then it could mean anything from a kind courtesy towards the guy to being into him but theirs a fair chance she won't get with the guy if she feels he is too much of a turn off.
If he is scrawny then maybe he has decided that top level women will only get with him if he bases it on money. I believe like you do Japs that it's a big theme out in the FSU. Maybe less so for 4-5 looks women or less as even if they are they know they know they will only likely get a guy who can pay the bills of everyday living so they'll probably look to see if he is a decent guy also who won't slap them around, etc.
I suspect being scrawny out in the FSU is not a great sign for FSW (as is being fat on the other end). It is probably associated with weakness, poor genetics, lack of being able to afford food, not very masculine looking, etc. I know not all Russians are like this, some can be very well built, the body builder types, but they eat a lot, for lunch they will eat like three or four ham baps while I just eat a couple of thin sandwiches lol.
Trench,
You are being totally off topic. You have plenty of Trench coat theory and discussion threads.
Where you explain your various oddball theories. Copy your post and carry on your discussion(s)
there.
This thread is about why pursue a Russian woman (FSUW).
Udachi!
Bill
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TIme is money, hence why better to use a cheap investment, to speed up the process
(small gift, i use flowers/erfume, prefer perfume ($15), as if the woman reschedules,
it is fine, flowers die however.
JT,
This thread is for explaining why you are searching for a woman in the FSU, not
tactics. Why don't you start a thread like JT's strategies and tactics for _______
(list something in the blank).
Udachi!
Bill
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JT,
This thread is for explaining why you are searching for a woman in the FSU, not
tactics. Why don't you start a thread like JT's strategies and tactics for _______
(list something in the blank).
Udachi!
Bill
That's a good idea for Japs to do Bill. I think most here have heard my theories etc so it would make a nice change to hear from Japs and how he finds stuff out there. After all I'm not sure why a thread that was only two pages at the time from way back in 2005 has been ressurected anyway. Is Ken C even still going??? ::)
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Yes Big Bill, I have noticed that virtually no one, other than myself, has told their reasoning, despite fact that all had a reason.
Most do not want to admit true reasoning . . . or sugar coat it ??
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Yes Big Bill, I have noticed that virtually no one, other than myself, has told their reasoning, despite fact that all had a reason.
Most do not want to admit true reasoning . . . or sugar coat it ??
That is why your posts are always appreciated by myself, you just get right into it. It is useful to prevent a western man going to FSU, taking a woman out, and asking her to split the bill.
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That's a good idea for Japs to do Bill. I think most here have heard my theories etc so it would make a nice change to hear from Japs and how he finds stuff out there. After all I'm not sure why a thread that was only two pages at the time from way back in 2005 has been ressurected anyway. Is Ken C even still going??? ::)
I resurrected the thread (and a few others recently). We have a lot of new people since
the thread was originally posted, so I thought I would kick start a few older threads to
see if it would generate some new interest.
I encourage both of you to continue posting on topic comments. If you think up an
unrelated topic, start a new thread and see if it grows legs.
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JT,
This thread is for explaining why you are searching for a woman in the FSU, not
tactics. Why don't you start a thread like JT's strategies and tactics for _______
(list something in the blank).
Udachi!
Bill
If i did, i would need to issue a disclaimer, i wouldn't want to be liable for any damages done by doing a bondage session incorrectly.
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It is funny, but i known Beo for maybe a decade now, when i first got into FSU scene, she warned me of the dangers of the FSU culture, it isn't as bad as she made it out to be, but for sure it is different, not somewhere i would like to spend my life in, she also warned me raising children here would adopt the FSU mentality , way she described in in somewhat toxic (Maybe not using the word toxic). But one thing i have notice is she holds men who exploit the FSU scene, due to income differences between western and FSU countries in low regard. I don't blame her, it is very different to her story of finding love, we all walk different paths in life.
My path, and a lot of western men paths, would be different to the path she took, same as my path would be different to many western men, way i look, type of women i go for etc We will all have different paths.
First, Belvis is a RM, married to a RW, who grew up in Russia, and lives there now. I am sorry he doesn't come here more often, but he likely is not interested in US political talk. Point is, he understands the culture better than anyone here, because he is from that culture and lives it daily.
Second, you first appeared here into 2016, so not quite 10 years, not even five.
Third, all I really told you was to keep your business interests hidden. In Ukraine, displays of wealth by foreigners make them subject to shakedowns. Your relative youth, your tattoos, the fact when you first moved there, your business was not successful, all protected you. I still wouldn't advertise my success. As far as locals should know, you are living pay cheque to pay cheque, just like them. In Ukraine, you will have locals, even police, shake you down if they know they can. That doesn't happen in Russia now (at least, not with police - I can't speak about others, but I do know, unlike in Ukraine, such activities, if discovered, are punished).
This post was composed without the aid of google.
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Point is, he understands the culture better than anyone here, because he is from that culture and lives it daily.
And i lived in the West, and now in the FSU, have people here , who share their stories, but it seems like you and him put it together that men share stories of being cheated on (multiple times), to be polite. I can make comparisons.
Point is, he understands the culture better than anyone
Second, you first appeared here into 2016, so not quite 10 years, not even five.
I stand corrected, i guess i stepped in FSU nearly a decade ago , time flies by doesn't it? Who would of thought i would actually be step in here.
Third, all I really told you was to keep your business interests hidden. In Ukraine, displays of wealth by foreigners make them subject to shakedowns. Your relative youth, your tattoos, the fact when you first moved there, your business was not successful, all protected you. I still wouldn't advertise my success. As far as locals should know, you are living pay cheque to pay cheque, just like them. In Ukraine, you will have locals, even police, shake you down if they know they can. That doesn't happen in Russia now (at least, not with police - I can't speak about others, but I do know, unlike in Ukraine, such activities, if discovered, are punished).
Wow, that was a bit of a jump? So you are telling me the FSU, which you and Belv spoke so fondly of, that is no different to the west, is prone to shakedowns by locals??????? Even the police????? I didn't forget our past conversations, but i have noticed that you don't take a nice view of foreign men who exploit the income differences between the FSU and West, to court women. Not something to be proud of , i agree .
And i agree with the Russia remark, if you remember when i returned to RWD, i did tell people that i found Russia less rundown (Less scam attempts), which Moby misunderstood me about.
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Neither of us (neither me nor Belvis) were referring to one story. I can find one story of a WM with a similar experience. I can think of dozens of WW I know with similar stories about WM. It was you who stated this was a common story. One story does not a "common story" make.
I have never spoken "fondly" of the FSU. I don't happen to be someone who believes that people differ much world over. But, cultures do, and attitudes are partly based on the culture you grew up in. I am Canadian in my world outlooks and views, not Ukrainian. I can relate to the traditions, the superstitions, and the cultural references are not foreign to me. But, I did not grow up in that culture. My mentality is shaped by my culture. There are many things in Ukrainian (and Russian) culture (they are very similar in many respects) that I admire - the focus on family, the deep friendships, the love of nature. There are other things that I don't. I have been accused on this forum of being very "negative" toward Ukraine, in particular. It's not a negativity, it is understanding the patterns of history, and how they repeat. I could move to, say, China, but the cultural norms, the way people think, the way they behave, would be foreign to me, and would remain so, to some extent, for decades. Even if I move there, I will never be from that, or part of, their culture. So it is for foreign men who move to Russia or Ukraine.
Belvis may have spoken fondly of Russia. I have not, nor of Ukraine. I am a realist. I have always maintained that Ukraine is corrupt. Russia is too, but far, far less than is Ukraine. There would be no oligarchs if they were not corrupt.
Of course I don't take a positive view of men who lead with their wallets. They go to a poor country to exploit the fact that people are poor. I feel the same way about companies paying workers in Bangladesh $1 or less a day so we can buy $10 t-shirts. I find it disgusting to exploit people, no matter the form such exploitation takes.
This post was composed without the aid of google.
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Neither of us (neither me nor Belvis) were referring to one story. I can find one story of a WM with a similar experience. I can think of dozens of WW I know with similar stories about WM. It was you who stated this was a common story. One story does not a "common story" make.
Not one story, it is many, i know of my ex's in FSU, and the stories they told me. You know very well of my background , it is mathematical, i look at things in a mathethimatical way, i look at the odds to figure this is pretty common. But also i will share something else later, regarding what you said about family values.
the focus on family, the deep friendships, the love of nature. There are other things that I don't.
You are aware that very commonly when a FSUM leaves his family, he cuts contact, and support to his kids in a prior marriage? I have many stories of men disappearing, heck one woman i know got contact by her dad years later, after one conversation he blocked her from Skype (can't make his new family upset). I couldn't stomach some of these stories.
It is the FSU mentality to show love, but once people are apart, biological blood means very little.
the focus on family, the deep friendships, the love of nature. There are other things that I don't. I have been accused on this forum of being very "negative" toward Ukraine, in particular. It's not a negativity, it is understanding the patterns of history, and how they repeat.
yes, from our prior conversations over the years, it is very evident, but not something you were wrong about, i believe now what you said all this time was in matter of fact correct.
Of course I don't take a positive view of men who lead with their wallets. They go to a poor country to exploit the fact that people are poor. I feel the same way about companies paying workers in Bangladesh $1 or less a day so we can buy $10 t-shirts. I find it disgusting to exploit people, no matter the form such exploitation takes.
Something i do agree with. But again, this is something same in the West. Ukrainians aren't exactly starving, they can afford to do many things, just like in Western countries (Struggle for OAP in the Ukraine however)
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When I lived there, I knew a lot of divorced FSUM who still saw their children. In most of those cases, the wife was either a drinker, an adulterer, or both. Soviet (and current laws in Russia and Ukraine) favour mothers, so even unfit mothers retain(ed) custody of children, even if the father wanted custody. In most of the cases I saw, the father and his parents would take their children for a week or so. But the mother always took them back, because if she didn't, she would lose child support (1/3 of his salary). That was more important than the child's happiness or well being.
In Ukrainian cases where men are not involved in their children's lives, it is usually the result of addiction, or a mother not wanting her children to see their father (very common, both there and in the West). But, you describe this as something unique to the FSU. It isn't. WM often disappear from their children's' lives as well. WW also alienate children from fathers. That is so common, it's even a factor in custody disputes now. It's not unique to that region of the world. I think the percentages of indifferent parents is about the same.
The only difference between FSUM and WM in this regard is that in the former case, it is not hidden as it is in the West, as in the West, we judge men who disappear from their children's lives.
This post was composed without the aid of google.
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When I lived there, I knew a lot of divorced FSUM who still saw their children. In most of those cases, the wife was either a drinker, an adulterer, or both. Soviet (and current laws in Russia and Ukraine) favour mothers, so even unfit mothers retain(ed) custody of children, even if the father wanted custody. In most of the cases I saw, the father and his parents would take their children for a week or so. But the mother always took them back, because if she didn't, she would lose child support (1/3 of his salary). That was more important than the child's happiness or well being.
In Ukrainian cases where men are not involved in their children's lives, it is usually the result of addiction, or a mother not wanting her children to see their father (very common, both there and in the West). But, you describe this as something unique to the FSU. It isn't. WM often disappear from their children's' lives as well. WW also alienate children from fathers. That is so common, it's even a factor in custody disputes now. It's not unique to that region of the world. I think the percentages of indifferent parents is about the same.
The only difference between FSUM and WM in this regard is that in the former case, it is not hidden as it is in the West, as in the West, we judge men who disappear from their children's lives.
This post was composed without the aid of google.
Percentages are way off , you might be right , that is has something to do with courts . Out of maybe 10 women I knew whose father's were not in the scene, only one wanted to be in the scene, and in the end he was looking for an excuse not to send money. Rest disappeared into smoke, there is a reason why FSU women don't depend on men , they are left with everything to deal with , something I also noticed in South America.
You are right , that it is to do with child support laws , forcing men to pay , so they feel to see their child also .but we also have a culture in the west , to not abandon our kids after marriage.
Creating a family is big in FSU , but taking care of a family, isn't so much, definitely not after a divorce. I am now in a time different from Soviet
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Yes Big Bill, I have noticed that virtually no one, other than myself, has told their reasoning, despite fact that all had a reason.
Most do not want to admit true reasoning . . . or sugar coat it ??
You can get a bigger better deal(1,2) in the FSU than you can locally.
1. Bigger better deal, means thinner, prettier, sexier, more feminine and
you can find someone who is more educated, who never took brain altering
chemicals like Prozac, Paxil, Zoloft or Lexapro and probably didn't take
hormonal birth control pills for decades of her life.
2. She will probably more direct, blunt and stubborn than any woman you've
ever known.
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1. Bigger better deal, means thinner, prettier, sexier, more feminine and you can find someone who is more educated, who never took brain altering chemicals like Prozac, Paxil, Zoloft or Lexapro and probably didn't take hormonal birth control pills for decades of her life.
Typically, their education is not that good.
No birth control, but she's likely had one or very often, more abortions. So pick your poison.
Incidentally, birth control pills are very low hormone now, and have been for decades.
Russians carry a genetic mutation that makes depression more common. One of every three Russians is predisposed to depression. I think it's better to be treated for depression than to lead an unhappy life.
This post was composed without the aid of google.
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In Ukraine, you will have locals, even police, shake you down if they know they can. That doesn't happen in Russia now (at least, not with police - I can't speak about others, but I do know, unlike in Ukraine, such activities, if discovered, are punished).
I have to say that I've not had an attempted 'shakedown' since 2005, when a Russian policeman on guard at the entrance to Volgograd airport tried to suggest my visa was invalid and not registered ..
In those days it was possible to have overlapping visas on my Uk and IRL passports so while he went off with my passport ..thinking I would cave in .. I just went through check-in and boarded using my UK one..
I got my IRL one back and he got a rollocking ... the lady I was seeing has relatives in the force of a higher rank
It is RUSSIANS who still get fleeced by their own Police .. ((
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Typically, their education is not that good.
What happens in the FSU, is that women from all walks of life and all education
levels are available for marriage. You can also find a plethora of women with lesser
educations as well. You can find plenty of fatties, plenty of women who are
unattractive and plenty of women who are NOT feminine too. The FSU has the
full gamut including crazies, drug addicts, prostitutes and scam artists.
No birth control, but she's likely had one or very often, more abortions.
So pick your poison.
I agree that many FSUW had abortions or used them in lieu of birth control.
The U.S. is ranked third for unipolar depressive disorders, just after China
and India.
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I had postpartum depression, probably after my first, but not diagnosed until after my last. SSRI's were life changing for me. I specifically remember how a veil lifted, about 3 wees in Don't underestimate the effect of medication for depression. I was on them for a short time, probably about six months. It's so long ago, I don't even remember. I believe a lot of women suffer from postpartum depression.
A lot of depression, I believe, is the result of what you expect your life to be like, and the reality of life, not matching up. In those cases, medication is probably not an answer.
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It's so long ago, I don't even remember.
Bo, you are in Canada. In the USA they pass out brain chemical drugs
to women like they are vitamins. With kids they give them Ritalin or
Adderal as if they were cough drops, then they turn 16 or so they
take them off and say so sorry little drug addict. They don't have
the magic pill syndrome in Canada or Russia like they do in the
USA.