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Author Topic: What would a U.S.-Russia war look like?  (Read 450991 times)

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Offline fathertime

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The typical inaccuracy of not only your conclusions but a direct repeated assertion-- yahoo-- can you show me where have ever used it?  It highlights how you have not bothered to ever read the material posted-- and a point I made to mods here-- whole articles do need to be posted so cretins like you can read them--even if not capable of understanding them.
While I am at it-- another insensitive git who thinks his sources are better than anyone else's-- previously said where he was getting his info-- so it was hardly a surprise that he is so deluded.The problem for him--and you-- is that your narrow view is not wide enough for you to get an understanding.
Your reply highlights your callous disregard and respect for human life.The point was made to you by several people( and to others who come here to argue theoretical semantics while the world burns-in this case Ukraine) that this is a real life tragedy unfolding in Ukraine-- and many people have wives,family and extended family and friends whose lives are at risk as I write. This is real--not some theory.
Mothers have had hair turn grey overnight as their 19 yo sons go off to war. Fathers of young families are being maimed and killed  -- and you-- you smugly never know when to shut up.
Today--I am in a smaller Ukrainian city-- where the funerals of 6 men killed in the east were held yesterday and today- these men and  all those fighting for Ukraine's future are real life heroes and the respect for those serving is incredible to see.


Angry name calling again, clearly a sign you (or yahoo) haven’t anything important to say!   You have become so mired in your own viewpoint that you have failed to ever see there has always been another side to the story.  Whether you agree with that side or not, it remains present and there is at least some validity to it. You can argue with mods all you want, and can continue to demonize everything Russian, but not everybody is going to agree with all aspects of your filth so you should probably get used to it.    While you continue to shed your ever-flowing crocodile tears, it is YOU that rummages around the cities attempting to ingratiate yourself with the remaining local ladies through your maudlin crying spells.  This is a forum and there will be differing viewpoints, and if you can’t handle that, it is just too bad…the opinions are not going away, nor should they.


Fathertime!   
I just happened to be browsing about the internet....

lordtiberius

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 Whether you agree with that side or not, it remains present and there is at least some validity to it. . . .  This is a forum and there will be differing viewpoints, and if you can’t handle that, it is just too bad…the opinions are not going away, nor should they.


Fathertime!

Not all opinions have validity even you concede that.


Also this forum doesn't exist so you can make fun of others you disagree with.

Offline Muzh

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Not all opinions have validity even you concede that.


Also this forum doesn't exist so you can make fun of others you disagree with.


Psst. Look up passive-aggressiveness.
To argue with a man who has renounced the use and authority of reason, and whose philosophy consists in holding humanity in contempt, is like administering medicine to the dead. Thomas Paine - The American Crisis 1776-1783

Offline Muzh

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Re: What would a U.S.-Russia war look like?
« Reply #1878 on: August 21, 2014, 08:36:14 AM »
Talking about heroes, atop Stalin's tower in Moscow. Boy, the world is full of surprises.


To argue with a man who has renounced the use and authority of reason, and whose philosophy consists in holding humanity in contempt, is like administering medicine to the dead. Thomas Paine - The American Crisis 1776-1783

Offline fathertime

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Not all opinions have validity even you concede that.


Also this forum doesn't exist so you can make fun of others you disagree with.


I don't disagree with either statement, and never have.



Psst. Look up passive-aggressiveness.


You are an expert in the area of passive-aggressiveness, as evidenced by the preponderance of your posts....


Fathertime!   
I just happened to be browsing about the internet....

Offline Drew

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For the Russian Terrorist Apologists here
« Reply #1880 on: August 21, 2014, 08:44:45 AM »
On Aug. 10, Mykola's platoon was ambushed in Donetsk. He was hit by a terrorist sniper while trying to save a comrade. The donations had been insufficient to buy medical packs designed to stop bleeding. They were and still are in short supply. He had just texted her: "Leading a platoon. Will talk later. Love you."

By the time she responded that she missed him, she was writing to a dead husband.

Her grief is that of tens of thousands of young wives and women whose men are fighting Putin's proxies for the ideals the West says it holds dear, even though the West remains ineffective in stopping him.

Her grief is that of all freedom-loving Ukrainians whose Western friends chatter but choose not to engage. It's the pain of everyone watching Russia's nasty hand -- creating problems, then capitalizing in many of the world's hot spots with little or no consequence.

Why is Russia's criminality tolerated? Why is the West bent on appeasing a global terrorist?

Put Russia on the list of terror-exporting states along with Syria and Iran. (Is it still unclear that Russia is fanning hatred, war and grief there?)

Follow examples of countries that already exclude Russia from international events. Don't mince words: he is evil.

Mykola and Tanya spoke often of the West's chronic lack of knowledge and understanding of Russia manifested by the fact that despite centuries of heinous crimes against humanity -- under the czars, Bolsheviks, communism and now this, it pays cowering homage instead of a rightful scorn and punishment.

http://www.winnipegfreepress.com/opinion/analysis/ukrainian-love-story-comes-to-an-end-271958411.html

Offline GQBlues

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Re: What would a U.S.-Russia war look like?
« Reply #1881 on: August 21, 2014, 08:56:39 AM »
Then perhaps we're both in denial....

No. Not really. Just you. I don't subscribe to mainstream narrative as you seem to be doing. Had I have then I would've likely, like everyone else seem to have done, demonize the likes of officer Wilson before any judicial process kicked in, or more appropriate to the event being discussed - presentation of evidences used to demonize an opponent.

Quote
...Crimea got bum rushed by the Russian military to hold an election in two weeks to join guess which country? That's right, Russia. They turned from Port duty to occupational forces. Funny how being an autonomous region they didn't vote to secede from Ukraine and become an independent nation. They voted to join Mother Russia who already happen to have 20K troops there on the street and just so happen to have another 20K en route from Moscow to insure a fair election, huh? Let it not be said that Ole Vlad isn't a humanitarian in the truest of sense....LOL

Hhhmm, let me take a shot at it then FP...Had there been a huge population of ethnic-Polish living in Crimea, and Crimea being strategically important to Poland, and Poland having lease right agreement for Crimea, and other than Ukraine - the closest nation will be Poland...do you think maybe these reasons my have something to do to sway towards Poland? What do you honestly think, FP?

I wish the very best for Ukraine whatever and wherever this mess takes the country to. Over 2,000 deaths, nearly half-a-million displaced citizens, the loss of an autonomous region, heavy damages in its infrastructure, etc...things that are completely unnecessary and largely could have been prevented - should've been prevented. All of that was the trade Ukriane made for a few more months until next election.

*WE* should have never meddled in Ukraine and played a major role in inciting this conflict. Look at the mess we got into in Syria re: ISIS. I bet you now Washington wishes we can partner with the Syrian government to fight the very same terrorist WE armed...pathetic if you ask me, but I know you won't.

But choices were made by all parties involved, so yes...it is what it is.


Quote
...It is what it is. That is where I suppose we'll agree. Apparently as for the rest we never will..

Sounds good to me.
« Last Edit: August 21, 2014, 08:59:38 AM by GQBlues »
Quote from: msmob
1. Because of 'man', global warming is causing desert and arid areas to suffer long, dry spell.
2. The 2018 Camp Fire and Woolsey California wildfires are forests burning because of global warming.
3. N95 mask will choke you dead after 30 min. of use.

Online Faux Pas

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Re: What would a U.S.-Russia war look like?
« Reply #1882 on: August 21, 2014, 09:42:40 AM »
No. Not really. Just you. I don't subscribe to mainstream narrative as you seem to be doing. Had I have then I would've likely, like everyone else seem to have done, demonize the likes of officer Wilson before any judicial process kicked in, or more appropriate to the event being discussed - presentation of evidences used to demonize an opponent.

Red herring and irrelevant. You would hope I subscribed to the mainstream narrative because I don't subscribe to yours? Often the simplest explanation is overlooked but, some folks feel they are too intelligent for that. It must be complicated. It must be a conspiracy with a man behind the curtain. After all it is a complicated world. Nah, I don't need Yahoo, Fox News or CNN to tell me what to think. I do a better job of that than they do.
Quote
Hhhmm, let me take a shot at it then FP...Had there been a huge population of ethnic-Polish living in Crimea, and Crimea being strategically important to Poland, and Poland having lease right agreement for Crimea, and other than Ukraine - the closest nation will be Poland...do you think maybe these reasons my have something to do to sway towards Poland? What do you honestly think, FP?

Put as much lipstick and rouge on that pig as you wish, it ain't helping. Crimea was the sovereign lands of Ukraine. Not Poland, not Russia and neither has rights under international law to annex it. It doesn't matter that the president was removed, legally or illegally. Ukraine did not break the lease rights with Russia. There was no reason for Russia to annex other than, Ukraine pissed Putin off by crawling out from under his boot.

Quote
I wish the very best for Ukraine whatever and wherever this mess takes the country to. Over 2,000 deaths, nearly half-a-million displaced citizens, the loss of an autonomous region, heavy damages in its infrastructure, etc...things that are completely unnecessary and largely could have been prevented - should've been prevented. All of that was the trade Ukraine made for a few more months until next election.

You mean another Crimea like election? I'm sure that appease Ukrainians every where. Afterall, Maiden was completely a manufactured conflict by Washington, eh?

Quote
*WE* should have never meddled in Ukraine and played a major role in inciting this conflict. Look at the mess we got into in Syria re: ISIS. I bet you now Washington wishes we can partner with the Syrian government to fight the very same terrorist WE armed...pathetic if you ask me, but I know you won't.

But choices were made by all parties involved, so yes...it is what it is.

More red herring GQ. The discussion is Crimea/Ukraine/Russia but, no. And I am pretty sure you know, I do not think we should be meddling anywhere in the world for other nations governance. Yes, there humanitarian exceptions but, I hold strong Libertarian political views. I never believed we should have armed any of the Arab groups with the exception of the Kurds while Saddam was still in power.


Offline GQBlues

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Re: What would a U.S.-Russia war look like?
« Reply #1883 on: August 21, 2014, 09:54:13 AM »
Red herring and irrelevant. You would hope I subscribed to the mainstream narrative because I don't subscribe to yours?......I never believed we should have armed any of the Arab groups with the exception of the Kurds while Saddam was still in power.

LMAO! What else can you see in the mirror behind you, FP?  ;)
Quote from: msmob
1. Because of 'man', global warming is causing desert and arid areas to suffer long, dry spell.
2. The 2018 Camp Fire and Woolsey California wildfires are forests burning because of global warming.
3. N95 mask will choke you dead after 30 min. of use.

Online Faux Pas

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Re: What would a U.S.-Russia war look like?
« Reply #1884 on: August 21, 2014, 10:01:21 AM »
LMAO! What else can you see in the mirror behind you, FP?  ;)

Monday morning quarterbacking has always been one of my strongest suits. I've noticed it is one of yours, too.  ;D

Offline GQBlues

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Re: What would a U.S.-Russia war look like?
« Reply #1885 on: August 21, 2014, 10:08:58 AM »
Monday morning quarterbacking has always been one of my strongest suits. I've noticed it is one of yours, too.  ;D

Yeah...however my team always win. Hah-ha!  :P
Quote from: msmob
1. Because of 'man', global warming is causing desert and arid areas to suffer long, dry spell.
2. The 2018 Camp Fire and Woolsey California wildfires are forests burning because of global warming.
3. N95 mask will choke you dead after 30 min. of use.

lordtiberius

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Re: For the Russian Terrorist Apologists here
« Reply #1886 on: August 21, 2014, 04:14:18 PM »


men are fighting Putin's proxies for the ideals the West says it holds dear, even though the West remains ineffective in stopping him.

1.  Not everyone in the West holds these ideals dear.
2.  The West is ineffective at stopping Putin.
3.  Contrast the ineffectiveness of the west to the accusations of the pro-Putin Westerners who accuse the west of intervention, regime change and waging proxy wars.

Her grief is that of all freedom-loving Ukrainians whose Western friends chatter but choose not to engage. It's the pain of everyone watching Russia's nasty hand -- creating problems, then capitalizing in many of the world's hot spots with little or no consequence.

Why is Russia's criminality tolerated? Why is the West bent on appeasing a global terrorist?

I think we all know the answer to this.


Put Russia on the list of terror-exporting states along with Syria and Iran. (Is it still unclear that Russia is fanning hatred, war and grief there?)

Is it unclear?

Follow examples of countries that already exclude Russia from international events. Don't mince words: he is evil.

Is there anyone even among his defenders who refute this?

Offline missAmeno

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Re: What would a U.S.-Russia war look like?
« Reply #1887 on: August 22, 2014, 03:51:45 AM »
I wish the very best for Ukraine whatever and wherever this mess takes the country to. Over 2,000 deaths, nearly half-a-million displaced citizens, the loss of an autonomous region, heavy damages in its infrastructure, etc...things that are completely unnecessary and largely could have been prevented - should've been prevented. All of that was the trade Ukriane made for a few more months until next election.

Really? Just 'few more months until next election' and everything would have been .... Oh, wait. What do you believe would have happened if everyone waited 'few more months until next election'?

Offline Anotherkiwi

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Re: What would a U.S.-Russia war look like?
« Reply #1888 on: August 22, 2014, 04:57:46 AM »
 :welcome:  Good to see you back again, missAmeno!  How is your brother, and has his unit been involved in the latest fighting?

Offline missAmeno

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Re: What would a U.S.-Russia war look like?
« Reply #1889 on: August 22, 2014, 07:35:49 AM »
Thank you, Anotherkiwi

He is back now, will be in hospital for another week before returning home, in one piece and no major injuries (at least that is what my mum telling to me, I had no chance to speak with him yet, all I know he is already in 3rd hospital and mum has a habit of telling me as little as she could get away with to 'don't worry' me).

All I know so far, vehicle in which he and several other soldiers broke out from the encirclement in ATO zone have been hit. He was one from the part of 72nd brigade who broke out from the encirclement, others in another part are the ones who had to retreat to Russia. Russian media used it for BS claims that part of 72nd brigade fled into territory of Russia to seek asylum. While in reality 72nd brigade for 4 months have been holding front-line, for over a week have been held in encirclement and shelled by Russian "Grad", artillery, tanks and mortars.

http://www.newsru.ua/ukraine/04aug2014/ottesnili.html
http://zik.ua/ua/news/2014/07/22/pid_marynivkoyu_biytsi_79oi_ta_72oi_brygad_v_otochenni_tankiv_boyovykiv_507977
http://ukrain.bazaza.net/208868/
http://kriminal.ictv.ua/ua/index/view-media/id/65583

Family saying tho he is still in hospital but already planning how to return to front-line.
« Last Edit: August 22, 2014, 07:38:13 AM by missAmeno »

Offline Muzh

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Re: What would a U.S.-Russia war look like?
« Reply #1890 on: August 22, 2014, 07:37:21 AM »
Really? Just 'few more months until next election' and everything would have been .... Oh, wait. What do you believe would have happened if everyone waited 'few more months until next election'?


In all truth, that would have been good ol' American "wishful thinking." Unfortunately, it was in Ukraine.


I think people here in the west are so sheltered that it is impossible to relate to a dog taking a daily beating. One day, the dog will bite back.


Just leave it to the win-win wishful thinkers to refute this. Except they would NEVER walk in their shoes.
To argue with a man who has renounced the use and authority of reason, and whose philosophy consists in holding humanity in contempt, is like administering medicine to the dead. Thomas Paine - The American Crisis 1776-1783

Offline Muzh

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Re: What would a U.S.-Russia war look like?
« Reply #1891 on: August 22, 2014, 07:39:57 AM »
Thank you, Anotherkiwi

He is back now, will be in hospital for another week before returning home, in one piece and no major injuries (at least that is what my mum telling to me, I had no chance to speak with him yet, all I know he is already in 3rd hospital and mum has a habit of telling me as little as she could get away with to 'don't worry' me).

All I know so far, vehicle in which he and several other soldiers broke out from the encirclement in ATO zone have been hit. He was one from the part of 72nd brigade who broke out from the encirclement, others in another part are the ones who had to retreat to Russia. Russian media used it for BS claims that part of 72nd brigade fled into territory of Russia to seek asylum. While in reality 72nd brigade for 4 months have been holding front-line, for over a week have been held in encirclement and shelled by Russian "Grad", artillery, tanks and mortars.

http://www.newsru.ua/ukraine/04aug2014/ottesnili.html
http://zik.ua/ua/news/2014/07/22/pid_marynivkoyu_biytsi_79oi_ta_72oi_brygad_v_otochenni_tankiv_boyovykiv_507977
http://ukrain.bazaza.net/208868/
http://kriminal.ictv.ua/ua/index/view-media/id/65583

Family saying tho he is still in hospital but already planning how to return to front-line.


Nonsense. That's all propaganda.  ;D


Good to see you back MissA and thank god your brother is safe.  :blowkiss:
To argue with a man who has renounced the use and authority of reason, and whose philosophy consists in holding humanity in contempt, is like administering medicine to the dead. Thomas Paine - The American Crisis 1776-1783

Offline missAmeno

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Re: What would a U.S.-Russia war look like?
« Reply #1892 on: August 22, 2014, 09:01:32 AM »
Thank you, Muzh.




So, over 100 russian lorries accompanied by 76th Division of russian airborne troops intruded into Ukraine. What the bets for this weekend: straightforward invasion or they will bother to stage show 'Ukrainians attacked our humanitarian convoy' so we are sending peacekeepers to shoot them all down?

Offline GQBlues

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Re: What would a U.S.-Russia war look like?
« Reply #1893 on: August 22, 2014, 09:36:55 AM »
Really? Just 'few more months until next election' and everything would have been .... Oh, wait. What do you believe would have happened if everyone waited 'few more months until next election'?

Saved all lives that's been lost. Preserved all infrastructures that's been damaged. Hundreds of thousands of Ukrainians would not have been displaced.

MissA, I am saddened these things are happening in Ukraine but you certainly cannot tell me Ukraine's fate all these times are caused by external forces other than its own. Sorry, ain't buying it.

All Ukraine is doing now is handing over the puppet strings from one puppet master to another. Same old, same old...

Ukraine's military consist of the country's force AND *armed groups and irregular army*. While the military is faced having to 'draft' soldiers, many of which doesn't really want to go, the armed groups and irregular army have no problem finding *volunteers*. Notice anything wrong with this? Volunteers is the kosher word for *mercenaries*, and by whom?

Why is Ukraine allowing *renegade militants*, many of which ARE *paid* foreign militants, kill its citizens if they really want to change face? Read OSCE's daily reports. This is the Ukraine YOU like?
« Last Edit: August 22, 2014, 10:11:55 AM by GQBlues »
Quote from: msmob
1. Because of 'man', global warming is causing desert and arid areas to suffer long, dry spell.
2. The 2018 Camp Fire and Woolsey California wildfires are forests burning because of global warming.
3. N95 mask will choke you dead after 30 min. of use.

Offline jone

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Re: What would a U.S.-Russia war look like?
« Reply #1894 on: August 22, 2014, 09:58:59 AM »
I echo Muzh's thoughts.  Miss A we are glad to see you back and wish your brother a speedy recovery.


**********

For those watching the news:  We are now seeing Russia's end game strategy.  Permanent peace keeping force augmented by a show of strength.   The Little Green Men are back.  Paratroopers and heavy war machinery in Ukraine today - undisguised.

Western powers and NATO have not formulated a response yet.  I guess they just didn't see it coming!
Kissing girls is a goodness.  It beats the hell out of card games.  - Robert Heinlein

Offline missAmeno

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Re: What would a U.S.-Russia war look like?
« Reply #1895 on: August 22, 2014, 10:11:19 AM »
Saved all lives that's been lost. Preserved all infrastructures that's been damaged. Hundreds of thousands of Ukrainians would not have been displaced.

GQB, you do not know how many lives would have been lost, what would have happened to infrastructure and how many people would have been displaced if Yanukovych stayed in power and pawned even more of Ukraine to Russia. It was not about Yanukovych himself, it was about what he was doing to the country and people were not prepare to allow him to do that.
Ukrainians have long enough history with Russia to know what they do not want in their lives once again.

Offline GQBlues

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Re: What would a U.S.-Russia war look like?
« Reply #1896 on: August 22, 2014, 10:19:03 AM »
All I'm saying is, no blood need not be shed if Ukraine wanted change. Honest change. All that has been happening in Ukraine since this entire silliness began is Ukrainians are the ones dying and suffering (with respect to the passengers of MH17).

I understand Yanu is as corrupt as they come and he needed to be held accountable for his actions but the maidan was a force of reason until someone decided to change course and started shooting protestors and police alike, and no, it wasn't Yanukovich either. If Ukraine doesn't believe it is important enough to really *investigate* that crime, what has Ukraine really *change* when all of these is said and done?

Quote from: msmob
1. Because of 'man', global warming is causing desert and arid areas to suffer long, dry spell.
2. The 2018 Camp Fire and Woolsey California wildfires are forests burning because of global warming.
3. N95 mask will choke you dead after 30 min. of use.

Offline Gator

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Re: What would a U.S.-Russia war look like?
« Reply #1897 on: August 22, 2014, 10:34:03 AM »
I echo Muzh's thoughts.  Miss A we are glad to see you back and wish your brother a speedy recovery.

Hear, hear!




Quote
For those watching the news:  We are now seeing Russia's end game strategy.  Permanent peace keeping force augmented by a show of strength.   The Little Green Men are back.  Paratroopers and heavy war machinery in Ukraine today - undisguised.

Western powers and NATO have not formulated a response yet. I guess they just didn't see it coming!

The West surely saw it as a high probability outcome because everyone knows Putin will not accept defeat.   However, what is the West to do?  Deployment of NATO forces to Ukraine is unacceptable to the West.   It suggests there will be more sanctions against Russia, further isolating Russia. 

In 5-10 years time, Ukraine will be like Georgia, perhaps even advertising on American TV "Travel to Ukraine."  What we don't know is whether Donetsk and Lugansk will be part of Ukraine.  If they become independent, they will have the same underachieving fate as Northern Cyprus experienced in comparison with Cyprus.   They will be another odd child of an isolated Russia.   

Offline fathertime

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Re: What would a U.S.-Russia war look like?
« Reply #1898 on: August 22, 2014, 11:04:28 AM »


In 5-10 years time, Ukraine will be like Georgia, perhaps even advertising on American TV "Travel to Ukraine."


Careful...what you are saying here sounds a little like a WIN...that might make some people's undershorts get knotted up!


Fathertime!   
I just happened to be browsing about the internet....

Offline Muzh

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Re: What would a U.S.-Russia war look like?
« Reply #1899 on: August 22, 2014, 11:07:30 AM »
All I'm saying is, no blood need not be shed if Ukraine wanted change. Honest change. All that has been happening in Ukraine since this entire silliness began is Ukrainians are the ones dying and suffering (with respect to the passengers of MH17).




I totally disagree. Honest change was not going to happen because the country was not in charge of itself. It had to detach itself from the cancer that was preventing honest change and that takes blood. You should know that by know. How ironic that Putin provided the venue for Ukraine to detach itself.


I told my wife about 14 years ago something like this was bound to happen. She kept saying that they were peaceful people and that I didn't understand.


History books are full of pages of bloodshed because situations like this. What's that Shadow calls it? Ah yes, civil war. So guess, who didn't understand? It's funny because now she is the one who has no "peaceful" sentiments right now. It is very difficult to explain to her why, for example, the US is NOT going to send troops nor the EU. All I know is that she hates the Nigr right now for being such a pansy.


Oh, one more thing. Don't expect utopia once they finalize becoming a "nation" as it was meant to be. There is the process of weeding out the vermin from their holes and that will take time. Think about it, almost 50 years after "the shot heard around the world" was fired and the US was still battling their "brothers."
To argue with a man who has renounced the use and authority of reason, and whose philosophy consists in holding humanity in contempt, is like administering medicine to the dead. Thomas Paine - The American Crisis 1776-1783

 

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