Russian Women Discussion

RWD Discussion Groups => Married => Topic started by: calmissile on December 08, 2011, 11:46:14 AM

Title: Retirement in Ukraine
Post by: calmissile on December 08, 2011, 11:46:14 AM
I am starting this thread to hear from Americans and others that have migrated to Ukraine for retirement.  Would like to get opinions from those actually living in Ukraine as to the monthly costs, relative enjoyment of life while living there and the downsides, if any.

Would also hope to hear from some folks that might be living outside the big cities.  Also, those with large gardens to supplement their food sources.
Title: Re: Retirement in Ukraine
Post by: Ade on December 08, 2011, 12:07:55 PM
I am starting this thread to hear from Americans and others that have migrated to Ukraine for retirement.  Would like to get opinions from those actually living in Ukraine as to the monthly costs, relative enjoyment of life while living there and the downsides, if any.

Would also hope to hear from some folks that might be living outside the big cities.  Also, those with large gardens to supplement their food sources.

I've neither lived in Ukraine nor have I any intention of retiring there but I have to ask, what is it you think you'll gain by moving there compared to where you live now?
Title: Re: Retirement in Ukraine
Post by: calmissile on December 08, 2011, 12:19:40 PM
Ade,

1.  A quieter, more simple life.  Out of the hustle and bustle of the big city.
2.  Much more friendly people, and closer ties to neighbors.
3.  A new adventure in a different country/culture.
4.  Closer ties to my wifes family.
5.  Enjoyment of raising ones own food on the farm.
6.  No economic worries.

It also does not necessarily mean permanent retirement either.  We have homes in both the US and Ukraine, so it isn't a situation that has to be permanent.  We could, and in fact might just live in Ukraine to enjoy the summers on the Sea of Azov.

What I really want to find out is how people like living in Ukraine that have (had) other options and chose Ukraine to live in.  I did not find it anything like some of the negative comments I have heard.  I guess it all depends on what you want.
Title: Re: Retirement in Ukraine
Post by: Eduard on December 08, 2011, 12:31:57 PM
interesting topic, Doug!
Title: Re: Retirement in Ukraine
Post by: ghost of moon goddess on December 08, 2011, 12:35:41 PM
Expat Exchange Living in Ukraine forum:

http://www.expatexchange.com/ukraine/liveinukraine.html
Title: Re: Retirement in Ukraine
Post by: Ade on December 08, 2011, 12:51:50 PM
Expat Exchange Living in Ukraine forum:

http://www.expatexchange.com/ukraine/liveinukraine.html (http://www.expatexchange.com/ukraine/liveinukraine.html)

There's a nice comment here; http://www.expatexchange.com/expat/index.cfm?frmid=316&tpcid=3353716

Quote
If you don't speak some Russian or Ukrainian and are not rich, you are screwed!  I ended up taking Russian for six months. Otherwise I would have remained an outsider and completely alienated!!  Virtually no one speaks English. It makes Poland look like an advanced society a hundred years ahead of Ukraine!!

 ;D
Title: Re: Retirement in Ukraine
Post by: ghost of moon goddess on December 08, 2011, 01:14:46 PM
Also try this one:
http://www.expatua.com/forum/index.php

Ade, Ukraine is co-hosting the EURO 2012, hopefully Ukrainians will have improved their spoken English by that time
Title: Re: Retirement in Ukraine
Post by: acctBill on December 08, 2011, 01:31:39 PM
Doug how well do you speak Ukrainian or Russian?  If you're thinking of moving there, learn at least one of the languages now.   I've lived in countries in Europe where I don't speak the language and it is difficult to get around and do everyday tasks without a common language.  Few people in Ukraine will speak English now or 10-15 years from now. 

Other than getting to know your inlaws better I don't find any of your reasons good enough to move to a more backward and corrupt country.  Leading a simpler and cheaper lifestyle in the US is far easy than getting up and moving your family to Ukraine.
Title: Re: Retirement in Ukraine
Post by: Muzh on December 08, 2011, 01:33:20 PM
Also try this one:
http://www.expatua.com/forum/index.php (http://www.expatua.com/forum/index.php)

Ade, Ukraine is co-hosting the EURO 2012, hopefully Ukrainians will have improved their spoken English by that time

True. And then you wake up.  ;)
Title: Re: Retirement in Ukraine
Post by: calmissile on December 08, 2011, 01:35:23 PM
The comments about no one speaking english is a little misleading.  While most Ukrainians do not speak English, you can generally find some one that does if you need to.  My 13 year old step-daughter (to be) has been taking english classes in Ukraine public schools for some time.  I think it is a generational thing.

My experience in several cities has shown that you can find someone that speaks english by looking for younger people for assistance.  While it is true that it would be much better to learn the language, it's not quite as dismal as some would suggest.

I think it would be accurate to say that walking into most stores you will not find clerks that speak english however I did run into a few.
Title: Re: Retirement in Ukraine
Post by: calmissile on December 08, 2011, 01:50:22 PM
I suspect that my Ukrainian wife and daughter will be teaching me Russian while we live in the US.  Since they both speak English I doubt it would be a big problem if we decide to move to our current home in Ukraine.

The last month I was there I was surprised at how well you can communicate with merchants without knowing the language.   Having been there, done that I am not worried about the language issue.

As far a backward country, etc., you would need to live there to make an assessment of whether you would be happy or not.  I have already concluded that I would not like to live in Kiev or any of the major cities.   Living on our farm however, is a totally different world.  Also have the nice warm Sea of Azov and nice beaches to enjoy the summers.  It doesn't seem to be any more corrupt than the US.  It's just not hidden as it is here.

The last month I was there we did not witness a single incident of corruption or pay any bribes.  I suspect that this is more prevelant in the large cities and probably those in the business sector.
Title: Re: Retirement in Ukraine
Post by: Muzh on December 08, 2011, 01:55:26 PM
The comments about no one speaking english is a little misleading.  While most Ukrainians do not speak English, you can generally find some one that does if you need to.  My 13 year old step-daughter (to be) has been taking english classes in Ukraine public schools for some time.  I think it is a generational thing.

My experience in several cities has shown that you can find someone that speaks english by looking for younger people for assistance.  While it is true that it would be much better to learn the language, it's not quite as dismal as some would suggest.

I think it would be accurate to say that walking into most stores you will not find clerks that speak english however I did run into a few.

Oh boy.
 
Doug, at the stores you will seldom find a person who knows English or is willing to talk to you in English. I'm referring to the young ones. They'll probably think you are a dirty old man going after them. The old babushkas, on the other hand, will smile at you and will try to "communicate" with them for you to buy something. For you to start having a conversation in English with a young person you need to have something in common. Guys will most probably make fun of you.
 
Case in point. I was at a cafe using their wifi and playing with my laptop while I had lunch. At a table in front of me sat a deyv (pretty too) with her laptop and to my right were 3 or 4 goons with a rented laptop laughing up a storm. I had an unocked 3G adapter for my laptop which I bought here but hadn't had a chance to investigate the purchase/usage of such. The young chick look like she was doing some research on her laptop and was totally inmersed. Me being shameless asked her, Девушка, вы понимаете по-английски? I got the expected look (of derision) but I insisted by showing her the 3G for my laptop. She did come over because she was curious so we started talking. Bottom line is that she was not sure if the regular SIM card would do the work. I also found out from her that the goons next to us were your typical Fat Yuris laughing at the next victim. (I had my suspicions) I mean, she didn't say it that way, she did mention marraige agency and was visibly upset.
 
Point is, I had something in common with this girl and she helped me out. ONLY after she was convinced that I was not coming on to her.
 
Learn Russian.
Title: Re: Retirement in Ukraine
Post by: calmissile on December 08, 2011, 01:58:49 PM
Another comment, I have numerous American friends that have retired in Baja, Mexico and their accounts of a backward country seems consitent with what I have witnessed in Ukraine.  The corruption and bribes, etc. exists in a lot of countries.  You can either accept it, or you don't need to live there!

Title: Re: Retirement in Ukraine
Post by: calmissile on December 08, 2011, 02:16:44 PM
Muzh,

How long has it been since you spent any significant time in Ukraine?  I am wondering if times have changed or if I just had different experiences.  Your comments about some chicks thinking you are coming on to them was true in some cases but not often.  In most cases they were happy to assist.  The guys there are truly a different animal and I agree, not friendly at all.

Hopefully the current younger generation will be in the positions to assist foreigners as most of them seem to be taking English classes in public schools.
Title: Re: Retirement in Ukraine
Post by: artisan5308 on December 08, 2011, 02:22:17 PM
Doug,

Although I haven't lived in the Ukraine, I traveled extensively while there and lived in a 30,000 population village about an hour outside of Donetsk for about a month at a time on four different occasions. This place has the demographic you seem to be looking for. It's an agricultural community, yet at the same time some modern features. You can get any electronic devices, appliances, furniture etc.....Here's the rub: Unless you plan on being dependent on your own resources for food, don't expect to pay a lot less for basics such as meat and dairy. Although vegetables are plentiful, don't expect a lot of variety or quality for that matter. You'll spend a lot of money for not a lot of car, but public trans is really decent. Electronics are prohibitively expensive, usually a third or more higher in cost. That being said, Ukrainians got hard scrabble living down to a science and can stretch a hryvna pretty far.
Property in this village can be had for under twenty grand all day and it's a pretty nice village overall. As for the people, they are pretty decent and nice. Not a lot of smiling though. Men can seem aggressive,, even towards woman, which can be startling to observe. I found that if you don't speak russian or ukrainian (mostly in the west), relying on your wife is convenient. Ukranians will tell you however "Vodka makes all communication possible"...lol
Title: Re: Retirement in Ukraine
Post by: acctBill on December 08, 2011, 02:58:52 PM
Doug why do you think so many FSU citizens left the FSU and live in Europe and the US?  Life is hard in the FSU and gets far harder as you get older.  Life is far easier in the west.  Tell a group of American based FSU citizens, about the same age as yourself, that you're thinking of moving to Ukraine for a decade or so.  Ask them if they think it is a good idea.  I'd really be surprised if any of them can give you a good reason to do it, other than being closer to the inlaws.   
Title: Re: Retirement in Ukraine
Post by: artisan5308 on December 08, 2011, 03:39:30 PM
I noticed and commented to my fiance that there seemed to be a lack of "visible" elderly people. You can go to any town in the US or Canada and see half a dozen older folks hanging out in the local coffee shop. Not so in the Ukraine. Not sure if they just stay home for lack of personal transportation, infirmity, or if they die at earlier ages. My fiances parents are in their seventies and both work full days on the family farm and are very healthy folks. Even when I traveled in the cities, Kiev, Yalta, any part of Crimea, all younger people pretty much.
Title: Re: Retirement in Ukraine
Post by: XMan on December 08, 2011, 04:03:15 PM
I've had similar thoughts regarding retiring there, or living there for periods of time. 
My language ability is still frustratingly limited.  During my visits I ONLY selected women working in stores to communicate with when I had questions about purchasing something.  They were far, far less surly, and far more willing to try to help.  None of them thought I was hitting on them.  Of course, since I spoke some Russian they then assumed I was fluent, even after telling them my ability was limited.   :)

I don't think one can get by more than a few weeks without knowing more of the language.  However, some of the apps and electronic translators can be quite helpful.

It was, by the way, made more complex by the fact that I was in far western Ukraine, where Ukrainian is primarily spoken rather than Russian. 

I would never own a car there.  Way to expensive and they get beaten to death on the horrible roads.  I did largely like the people I met.  But I found the smaller cities and towns more pleasant than places like Kiev and Kharkov, which are too expensive anyway.

Title: Re: Retirement in Ukraine
Post by: tfcrew on December 08, 2011, 05:08:53 PM


1.  A quieter, more simple life.  Out of the hustle and bustle of the big city.
2.  Much more friendly people, and closer ties to neighbors.
 
6.  No economic worries.

 

Puzzled #1 there because Redlands Ca [where you live?] is relatively small ...[68,747]
"No economic worries"?
How is that certain?

Title: Re: Retirement in Ukraine
Post by: calmissile on December 08, 2011, 07:47:15 PM
tfcrew,

I am not sure I undestand your question.

What I meant was out of the big city like L.A. which is close by to Redlands.  For all practical purposes the concrete jungle of L.A. has extended out to the 'Inland Empire' where I live.
Also, where we have a home is in Primorsk, Ukraine.  Probably less than 5,000.

The no economic worries relates to what is happening in the US.  Higher taxes, mounting debt, future uncertain, etc.  If you own your own home in Ukraine you can live on very modest income (US Social Security, etc.)  Retirement income on top of that is gravy.
Title: Re: Retirement in Ukraine
Post by: calmissile on December 08, 2011, 08:53:20 PM
Leading a simpler and cheaper lifestyle in the US is far easy than getting up and moving your family to Ukraine.

Doug why do you think so many FSU citizens left the FSU and live in Europe and the US?  Life is hard in the FSU and gets far harder as you get older.  Life is far easier in the west.  Tell a group of American based FSU citizens, about the same age as yourself, that you're thinking of moving to Ukraine for a decade or so.  Ask them if they think it is a good idea.  I'd really be surprised if any of them can give you a good reason to do it, other than being closer to the inlaws.
   

Bill,

Somehow we ended up on different wavelengths here.   It is NOT cheaper to live in the US than Ukraine.  As I indicated earlier, we already have a home there and will be keeping it when we live in the US.  If you live in rural Ukraine you will probably only spend$100/month at the grocery store because you eat off the farm.  Also, the neighbors share with each other so your diet is pretty well balanced.  For the most part we buy bread, mayo, spices, fish, and a few other items from the grocery store.  This is normal rural living in Ukraine.  The homes are already paid for, so there is no mortgage.  You also need to pay for electricity which is very cheap compared to the US.   I don't recall the natural gas bill, but it can't be too great if a Ukriane pensioner can afford to pay it.  As you probably already know, public transportation is very inexpensive so it really isn't necessary to have a car although we probably would.  Taxi's are also very inexpensive (compared to Kiev) so that's an option for trips under an hour.  We did very well in town with the motor scooter I bought on my last trip and we used it to go all over the place.

As far as asking a local Ukrianian here if they would move back.... I would suspect that if they could take their American $$$ and move back many might choose to do so.    Something you apparently do not understand about American retirees, is that we have been moving to all parts of the world for many years in order to live a better life on a limited income.  Many, many Americans have retired in Baja, Mexico for that very reason.  Many people ask them the same question "How could you possibly want to live in such a backward, corrupt, country.  Apparently they don't mind, because they have been doing it for many years and continue to do so.

The rising costs in America are continuing to drive retirees to other counties.  It's a matter of what lifestyle, weather and social life you want.
Title: Re: Retirement in Ukraine
Post by: calmissile on December 08, 2011, 09:37:49 PM
artisan5308,

I noticed and commented to my fiance that there seemed to be a lack of "visible" elderly people. You can go to any town in the US or Canada and see half a dozen older folks hanging out in the local coffee shop. Not so in the Ukraine. Not sure if they just stay home for lack of personal transportation, infirmity, or if they die at earlier ages. My fiances parents are in their seventies and both work full days on the family farm and are very healthy folks. Even when I traveled in the cities, Kiev, Yalta, any part of Crimea, all younger people pretty much.

Yes, that is true there are relatively few in town.  For the most part they are where you suggest, they are working their land and tending their crops.  One of our next door neighbors in probably in her 80's and has commercial bee hives, two goats, geese, chickens and about 3-4 acres planted with crops.  I have never seen her in town.  I think she sends one of her kids or grandkids to town when necessary.  Every single day and well into the evening you can see her out tending her garden or the bees.  She also has a nice personality and doesn't complain about working hard.

The neigbors on the other side are maybe in their 70's and the lady is tending their garden much of the day and I think her husband has some type of regular job in town.

While you don't see them sitting in coffe shops chatting, they do seem to have their special places to congregate.  In the photo attached, the older guy on the motorscooter is at exactly the same spot every day, all day long chatting with his cronies.  To some extent, I think people are generally too busy with life to sit around talking very much.  Many of the younger folks are coming or going to school and some are just shopping.  A couple of photos of the market my fiance has a stall in.

The blond in the pink is my fiance with my step-son (to be).
Title: Re: Retirement in Ukraine
Post by: ML on December 08, 2011, 09:42:21 PM

1.  A quieter, more simple life.  Out of the hustle and bustle of the big city.
2.  Much more friendly people, and closer ties to neighbors.
3.  A new adventure in a different country/culture.
4.  Closer ties to my wife's family.
5.  Enjoyment of raising ones own food on the farm.
6.  No economic worries.

1. You can do this in any country.
2. Questionable.
3. Quite true.
4. Sure.  But what about your family here in states?
5. You can do this in any country.
6. You can't be serious!!!!

And about corruption mentioned by you and another person here . . . do a google and you will find that Ukraine will be near the top  of the list of corrupt countries.  USA will be near the bottom.  I do business in both countries; any comparison is like night and day.

It is great when we find a soul mate; but best try to remain objective and not look at this through rose colored glasses.   :)

And, officially you cannot receive SS check while living in Ukraine.  I know this sounds not believable, but check it out.  You can try to get around it by having your SS check deposited to bank in USA, but some have been caught up in a messy way with this.  Another option is you can go to US Embassy in Kyiv to sign for your SS check each month.  This can get a little tedious.
Title: Re: Retirement in Ukraine
Post by: calmissile on December 08, 2011, 10:02:15 PM
but best try to remain objective and not look at this through rose colored glasses.

ML,

How long have you lived in Ukraine, or even visited?   

Title: Re: Retirement in Ukraine
Post by: Misha on December 08, 2011, 10:11:54 PM
If you live in rural Ukraine you will probably only spend$100/month at the grocery store because you eat off the farm.


Wouldn't it be less risky to buy/rent a small farm with a few acres somewhere in the United States? You could grow and can your food, you could keep a few goats, you could pretty much do all that you intend on doing in Ukraine with better guarantees when it comes to health care...
Title: Re: Retirement in Ukraine
Post by: artisan5308 on December 08, 2011, 10:28:43 PM
Yeah, I'd be nervous about the healthcare.

I can speak for my fiance and say that if it were her choice whether I lived with her in Ukraine or she with me in the States, she'd have me there in a heartbeat.

Doug, sounds like your almost there already bud. Go with your heart and be mindful of the SS issues. Any friends in Kiev you can visit once a month?
Title: Re: Retirement in Ukraine
Post by: calmissile on December 08, 2011, 10:54:18 PM
artisan5308,


I can speak for my fiance and say that if it were her choice whether I lived with her in Ukraine or she with me in the States, she'd have me there in a heartbeat.

Yes, some folks just don't get it.  I have met a lot of (US) guys that would move to Ukraine (or Russia) if they could take their US paycheck with them.  That's why we are staying in the states until I quit working in my consulting business.  Spending summers in Ukraine will have to do for a while.  It will also give my wife and daughter a chance to experience America.  We anticipate keeping both our homes so can go back and forth if we wish.

Contrary to the post upthread, you can receive your Social Security in Ukraine but there are some conditions that you must adhere to.  I spent an hour or so in the SS office yesterday getting a clarificaton on the issue.  And yes, I do have a friend that owns a flat in Kiev, but don't plan on going that route.  Actually there are a number of options to solve the problem.

The medical care is an issue that I will find a solution to, even for just the summer vacations.
Title: Re: Retirement in Ukraine
Post by: Ade on December 08, 2011, 11:38:29 PM
artisan5308,


I can speak for my fiance and say that if it were her choice whether I lived with her in Ukraine or she with me in the States, she'd have me there in a heartbeat.

Yes, some folks just don't get it.  I have met a lot of (US) guys that would move to Ukraine (or Russia) if they could take their US paycheck with them.  That's why we are staying in the states until I quit working in my consulting business.  Spending summers in Ukraine will have to do for a while.  It will also give my wife and daughter a chance to experience America.  We anticipate keeping both our homes so can go back and forth if we wish.

Contrary to the post upthread, you can receive your Social Security in Ukraine but there are some conditions that you must adhere to.  I spent an hour or so in the SS office yesterday getting a clarificaton on the issue.  And yes, I do have a friend that owns a flat in Kiev, but don't plan on going that route.  Actually there are a number of options to solve the problem.

The medical care is an issue that I will find a solution to, even for just the summer vacations.

So, basically, you'll not be uprooting and moving there, you'll just be having an extended vacation there every summer? Then, quite frankly, it's not much of a big deal. I'd just be realistic on the health care aspects as you are getting on a bit; yes, yes, you're fit and healthy and all of that now but, at almost 70, that can turn around in a heartbeat.

Personally, I think you'd be a little nuts considering moving there full time. Do a pro/con list of staying in the US full time compared to Ukraine; I just don't see the attraction. There is nothing on your list that can't be had in the US or close by except your inlaws and those can be visited whenever you want.


Title: Re: Retirement in Ukraine
Post by: Manny on December 09, 2011, 02:38:11 AM
The medical care is an issue that I will find a solution to, even for just the summer vacations.

A flight to Germany would be my preferred healthcare option.

Not so much now, but ten years ago, expats in Estonia remained permanently poised to hop in the helicopter taxi to Finland in a medical emergency.
Title: Re: Retirement in Ukraine
Post by: LiveFromUkraine on December 09, 2011, 05:50:45 AM
but best try to remain objective and not look at this through rose colored glasses.

ML,

How long have you lived in Ukraine, or even visited?

I lived in Ukraine for a year and a half. Yeah, you are looking at this with rose colored glasses.  I have read your responses on both boards.  I just don't post on the other one and sometimes post here.  You got some great advice from Andrew and shrugged it off as him not knowing anything. 

Well, I have to say you are the one that doesn't understand much and when the stuff hits the fan you will learn the hard way.

I would never live in Ukraine at your age.
Title: Re: Retirement in Ukraine
Post by: Muzh on December 09, 2011, 06:53:43 AM
Muzh,

How long has it been since you spent any significant time in Ukraine?  I am wondering if times have changed or if I just had different experiences.  Your comments about some chicks thinking you are coming on to them was true in some cases but not often.  In most cases they were happy to assist.  The guys there are truly a different animal and I agree, not friendly at all.

Hopefully the current younger generation will be in the positions to assist foreigners as most of them seem to be taking English classes in public schools.

Doug, I was there this past summer. And prior to that the previous summer for 4 weeks.
 
Title: Re: Retirement in Ukraine
Post by: Muzh on December 09, 2011, 07:04:24 AM
A flight to Germany would be my preferred healthcare option.

Not so much now, but ten years ago, expats in Estonia remained permanently poised to hop in the helicopter taxi to Finland in a medical emergency.

 
True that. My health insurance, United Healthcare (until I die) does this; covers the flight and hospital care to Germany (if I'm in UA) in case of emergency. I believe other insurances will cover that.
 
Title: Re: Retirement in Ukraine
Post by: Eduard on December 09, 2011, 07:34:12 AM
Ade,

1.  A quieter, more simple life.  Out of the hustle and bustle of the big city.
2.  Much more friendly people, and closer ties to neighbors.
3.  A new adventure in a different country/culture.
4.  Closer ties to my wifes family.
5.  Enjoyment of raising ones own food on the farm.
6.  No economic worries.

It also does not necessarily mean permanent retirement either.  We have homes in both the US and Ukraine, so it isn't a situation that has to be permanent.  We could, and in fact might just live in Ukraine to enjoy the summers on the Sea of Azov.

What I really want to find out is how people like living in Ukraine that have (had) other options and chose Ukraine to live in.  I did not find it anything like some of the negative comments I have heard.  I guess it all depends on what you want.
Doug, I'd like to chip in, hoping you will find this helpful:


1.  A quieter, more simple life.  Out of the hustle and bustle of the big city.

you can have this in so many places in the US and have a much better quality of life.


2.  Much more friendly people, and closer ties to neighbors.

Doug, I think this assumption comes from you not knowing the culture or understanding the language. Frankly, I don't think you'll find people friendlier than the USAians anywhere in the world. Off course it's a generalisation and there are all kinds of people, good and bad in both countries. Neighbours can be good or bad in either country. Being an American you are a bit of a novelty for local people therefor you are getting a special treatment and they seem friendlier than Americans to you. Fact is it's much more of a "user culture" in Ukraine and generally people are more likely to use and take advantage of other people when they are given the opportunity. I guess it's that third world mentality in a way.
On the other hand if you are lucky enough to be surrounded by kind, genuine people with good connections your life could be nice there. But same goes for the US...  ;)  I guess it's a universal thing, no matter where you live - if you have good friends and good connections your quality of life will be much better that if you don't. Since you don't speak Russian, seems to me it would be easier for you to surround yourself with the right people in your own country.


3.  A new adventure in a different country/culture.

Can't argue with this one.


4.  Closer ties to my wifes family.

Sure.


5.  Enjoyment of raising ones own food on the farm.

You can do this in the US, I'm doing it when time permits and enjoying it very much. I have no idea why you would have to move to Ukraine for this one.



6.  No economic worries.

This really depends on many different things. Although life is cheaper there, you might spend a lot more trying to get decent medical help by having to go outside of Ukraine for that. The worst thing you can do is to trust Ukrainian health care. You might go into a hospital with a minor illness but come out with a major disability. At your age decent healthcare system should me a major consideration IMO.
Title: Re: Retirement in Ukraine
Post by: Jack on December 09, 2011, 08:12:09 AM
2.  Much more friendly people, and closer ties to neighbors.


2.  Much more friendly people, and closer ties to neighbors.

Doug, I think this assumption comes from you not knowing the culture or understanding the language.


Doug, in my opinion you are 100% correct.  As someone who has spent a lot of time in America and in Ukraine I could not agree more with you that, again in my opinion, the overall population of Ukraine is much more friendlier than what I have experienced in America. Yes, there are some rude people in Ukraine but no where near the numbers I see in America.  And I believe most Ukrainians are closer to there neighbors than American's are.  I know both culture's Doug and although I do not speak Ukrainian one does not have to understand the language to see and feel the most obvious.


ML, you say that it is questionable as to if Ukrainian's are more friendly than American's.  May I ask what is your experience in dealing with Ukrainians to make this assumption and how much time you have spent in Ukraine to base this assumption?
Title: Re: Retirement in Ukraine
Post by: tfcrew on December 09, 2011, 08:53:04 AM
tfcrew,

I am not sure I undestand your question.

  If you own your own home in Ukraine you can live on very modest income (US Social Security, etc.)  Retirement income on top of that is gravy.

As it was..I didn't really understand your post.
'Retirement in Ukraine'. Wasn't sure if it meant retirement to Ukraine [what you are considering?] or retirement from Ukraine as there are people there who have benefits from working there.


Do you collect Social Security?
I'll tell you what..the US Gov't does not direct deposit these funds in some Ukrainian bank...they just don't have that.
Unless it has changed recently...Social Security will not send the check to Ukraine.
Quote
Social Security restrictions  Social Security  restrictions prohibit sending payments to individuals in Cambodia, Vietnam  or areas that were in the former Soviet Union (other than Armenia, Estonia,  Latvia, Lithuania and Russia). Generally, you cannot  receive payments while you are in one of these countries, and we cannot send  your payments to anyone for you. However, exceptions can be made for certain  eligible beneficiaries in countries with Social Security restrictions in place.

http://ssa.gov/pubs/10137.html#countries


 

Title: Re: Retirement in Ukraine
Post by: Turboguy on December 09, 2011, 08:56:24 AM
Would it not be possible to have the SS deposited to a bank in the USA and then draw the funds in Ukraine.   My SS is directly deposted to a Money Market fund which I can transfer online to my checking account and access that through a debit card.  I don't see any reason the same could not be done with someone living in Ukraine.
Title: Re: Retirement in Ukraine
Post by: JohnDearGreen on December 09, 2011, 08:57:18 AM
I am starting this thread to hear from Americans and others that have migrated to Ukraine for retirement.  Would like to get opinions from those actually living in Ukraine as to the monthly costs, relative enjoyment of life while living there and the downsides, if any.
I would agree Ukraine is not a good choice.  Have you considered other cities in eastern Europe where conditions are a little more stable?  Like Sofia, Poland, Bratislava, etc?
You can read about life in other cities here: http://www.internations.org/ (http://www.internations.org/)


You might want to read articles like this before you own property in Ukraine:
http://www.kyivpost.com/news/nation/detail/50336/print/ (http://www.kyivpost.com/news/nation/detail/50336/print/)
Title: Re: Retirement in Ukraine
Post by: Eduard on December 09, 2011, 09:58:12 AM
the overall population of Ukraine is much more friendlier than what I have experienced in America. Yes, there are some rude people in Ukraine but no where near the numbers I see in America.
I speak Russian and English and am fluent in both languages so my assessment of the two cultures might be a bit more realistic. I'm a social person and talk to many people in my travels. We chat about politics in Ukraine, world politics, life in Ukraine, life in the USA, life in general, etc. so I have a pretty good understanding of what the common folk in Ukraine thinks and lives, not to mention that I have friends and family there.

The fact that people in America are not as friendly to you and more rude to you than in Ukraine is very interesting. Afterall, Americans can understand you perfectly. What do you think the reason for that is?
In my experience any one who came to live in the USA from another country, not just the FSU but even Western European countries will tell you that Americans are generally much friendlier and polite people than anywhere else. Ask any Ukrainians who live in the USA what they think.
Title: Re: Retirement in Ukraine
Post by: Jack on December 09, 2011, 10:14:22 AM
I am also a very social person and talk to many people in America, Russia and Ukraine.  We chat politics in Ukraine, we talk about world politics in Ukraine, we talk about life in America and Ukraine and I have done so in Ukraine going back to 1998. I have a pretty good understanding of what the common people and the not so common people in Ukraine think and live. I have both family and many friends who live in Ukraine. The difference between the two cultures as as different as day is to night.

I do have business interest in Ukraine and have been extremely successful with that business in Ukraine. I can and do contribute some of that success to my understanding of the Ukraine people, it culture and proud history. 

The fact that Ukraine people are more rude that American's to you to me say's a lot.  I know many American men who also think and feel that Ukrainians are more friendly than American's.   I know many Ukraine ladies in America today who also see many good aspects of Ukraine culture and it's people when compared to many, not all, but many American's.
Title: Re: Retirement in Ukraine
Post by: Eduard on December 09, 2011, 10:37:20 AM
I am also a very social person and talk to many people in America, Russia and Ukraine.  We chat politics in Ukraine, we talk about world politics in Ukraine, we talk about life in America and Ukraine and I have done so in Ukraine going back to 1998. I have a pretty good understanding of what the common people and the not so common people in Ukraine think and live. I have both family and many friends who live in Ukraine. The difference between the two cultures as as different as day is to night.

I do have business interest in Ukraine and have been extremely successful with that business in Ukraine. I can and do contribute some of that success to my understanding of the Ukraine people, it culture and proud history. 

The fact that Ukraine people are more rude that American's to you to me say's a lot.  I know many American men who also think and feel that Ukrainians are more friendly than American's.   I know many Ukraine ladies in America today who also see many good aspects of Ukraine culture and it's people when compared to many, not all, but many American's.
I never said that people in Ukraine are more rude to me, you are putting words in my mouth again, jack.
I could say exactly the same about you - you speak English and was born and raised in the USA, yet you find that Americans are unfriendly and rude to you. What's wrong with this picture? This may say more about you as a person than the Americans in general. Normally people are pretty nice to me and treat me well in both countries.


I was simply comparing the two cultures. Unlike you, I speak both languages and can have a conversation with people. Also I observe how people treat each other in different situations in the USA versus Ukraine. You can't understand what they are saying in Ukraine, but I can and that's the difference. I'm sorry that you can't see that knowing the local language gives you an advantage in understanding the local culture.


You want to prove that you know better? Fine, you da man! I have no interest in participating in another silly pissing contest with you. I was just trying to help Doug.
Title: Re: Retirement in Ukraine
Post by: GQBlues on December 09, 2011, 11:09:22 AM
CaMissille-
 
I'm very familiar with Redlands as I built more than a few tracts in and around the area. Matter of fact, I just finished renovating a huge central distribution warehouse for a nationally reknowned retailer chain in Mira Loma not too long ago.

But reading some of the reasons you stated as the cause of your contemplation, you didn't really specify as money being an issue, and considering you have homes on both fronts, I'm wondering why can't Idyllwild, Temecula, or heck, even Lake Arrowhead be considered as viable places to suit your list? You'll easily meet all your criteria in those serene beautiful locales. While those places may in fact demand costlier properties, but the way the RE market is today, it may be worth a peek for you.
 
Without offending anyone from Ukraine, as I agree it is a beautiful country - but as most places in the FSU, Ukraine isn't exactly society friendly to seniors and handicapped peoples. That alone, I believe, should play a huge consideration on your part.

At the very least, wait a good while until this silly global economic shakedown simmer a bit. Ripple effects always cause greater disturbances in places farthest from center.
 
http://money.msn.com/investment-advice/the-3-big-crises-of-2012-jubak.aspx?page=2 (http://money.msn.com/investment-advice/the-3-big-crises-of-2012-jubak.aspx?page=2)
 
You're going to do what you ultimately want to do, but the fact you laid this out for public consumption, I assume you're not averse in hearing some counter points, no?
 
Title: Re: Retirement in Ukraine
Post by: Jack on December 09, 2011, 12:03:48 PM
Here are your exact words eduard,..


Americans are generally much friendlier and polite people than anywhere else. Ask any Ukrainians who live in the USA what they think.


You ARE saying that American's are more friendlier than Ukrainians eduard, and you emphasis that by saying ask any Ukrainian living in the USA what they think.

Well eduard, I have talked to many Ukraine women in America, many Ukraine women who are happily married, many of these Ukraine women live within 50 miles of me and I am able to see and speak with quite often but there are many Ukraine women who live across America who have expressed the same feelings, that so many more American people are just plain rude. And I see this as well.

I was also comparing the two cultures eduard. You see eduard, their are so many Ukraine people who speak good English that it is easy to have conversations with them to get a good understanding as to what is going on in Ukraine and what Ukrainian's are thinking. And by and large eduard, most of these individuals are educated people.

You want to tell Doug that because he does not speak the language he really can't get a good feel for the culture or people but you are wrong eduard in that one does not have to speak the Ukraine language when one can speak with so many Ukrainian's who have a good grasp of English.   Now, for those who have a hidden agenda in that they really need to speak the Ukraine language, or hire someone who does, I can see why you are saying this to Doug.

Title: Re: Retirement in Ukraine
Post by: tfcrew on December 09, 2011, 12:11:54 PM
Would it not be possible to have the SS deposited to a bank in the USA and then draw the funds in Ukraine.   My SS is directly deposited to a Money Market fund which I can transfer online to my checking account and access that through a debit card.  I don't see any reason the same could not be done with someone living in Ukraine.
I don't know about money market or checking accounts in Ukraine.
Credit cards are used...but concerning  the cost of cash withdrawl I am not sure.
Title: Re: Retirement in Ukraine
Post by: ML on December 09, 2011, 12:29:10 PM
Would it not be possible to have the SS deposited to a bank in the USA and then draw the funds in Ukraine.   My SS is directly deposted to a Money Market fund which I can transfer online to my checking account and access that through a debit card.  I don't see any reason the same could not be done with someone living in Ukraine.

Turbo, here are the critical parts of the SS post:

"restrictions prohibit sending payments to individuals in . . . areas that were in the former Soviet Union . . . Generally, you cannot  receive payments while you are in one of these countries . . . "

So, yes, you can continue to get your SS deposited into your USA bank while living in Ukraine . . . and yes, you will be in violation of the prohibition against doing so.  Will you get caught and will there be consequences?  It will be somewhat like the situation of cheating on your income taxes; maybe yes, maybe no.

I know a man who did get caught.  SS sent him some standard form to his home address in USA.  Letter was returned to SS by postal service with note . . . address no longer valid.  Shortly thereafter, SS stopped the auto deposit to his bank account.  He missed about 11 SS checks until he was back in USA and filled out a thousand documents.  He is still appealing trying to get back the 11 missed monthly payments.

So what is  the reason for this rule?  As I understand it, it is due to the corruption in Ukraine and other countries on the 'bad list.'  That is to say, our SS people do not feel comfortable that the money will always get to our citizens in those countries and that there will be a lack of reporting deaths so that payments continue after death, etc., etc., etc.
Title: Re: Retirement in Ukraine
Post by: Muzh on December 09, 2011, 12:41:04 PM
Doug:
 
There is this story told to many American tourists travelling to the Caribbean.
 
 
Once there were four friends that were always together; partying, drinking, playing cards, etc. One day during a storm, lightning struck the corner where our friends hang out and were killed instantly.
 
One of them opened his eyes and finds himself in front of St. Peter and the Pearly gates.
"Welcome, son" said St. P The guy looked around and asked St. P where are his friends. St. P looks sadly to the guy and just shakes his head.
 
"You mean, they went....?"
 
"Yes, they went down there." said St. P
 
Resigned our hero took his wings and walked into heaven. After an eternity or two, our hero feels bored; something's missing. He says "I wonder if..." and he goes to see St. P
 
"Hi Mr. P, do you think I can visit my friends, you know, down there?"
 
"This is a very unusual request. I'll have to set an appointment with the boss." said St. P.
 
After another eternity St. P finds our friend and brings him over to see the boss.
 
"Hey God, is it possible I can see my buddies, er..., down there? I really miss them and would like to see how they are doing."
 
God looks at our hero and says "I'll give you two weeks to visit your friends and then you have to come back. If you go back again, you'll have to stay there."
 
"Sweet" and off, he tooks his wings and blasted down to hell. As the gates of hell open, his jaw drops to the floor. Huge party. Lots of booze, girls, gambling, decadence and debauchery. As he makes the turn, standing at their usual corner are his buddies. It was a reunion full of tears as they embraced and exchaneged stories. For the next two weeks they party as there is no tomorrow. Once the two weks are over, our hero says goodbye to his buddies and zooms back to heaven.
 
Eventually, after an eternity or two, he cannot tolerate all this peace and quiet and makes an appointment with the boss.
 
"God, I thought it over and my friends are there. Also, I had such a great time that I believe I can have a better life there than I can have here."
 
God tells him "Very well, you made your choice. Remember, you cannot return here." And with that said, our hero takes off his wings and zooms back to hell.
 
When the gates of hell open, his jaw dropped to the floor. Scenes of people burning at the stake, others with their heads encrusted in the pavement while being tickled mercilessly on their feet.
 
Pain.
 
Suffering.
 
Everywhere he looked.
 
Desperately he goes looking for his friends and finds them, heads encrusted in the sidewalk of the same corner they used to hang out.
 
"Friends. Buddies. What is going on? Where are the girls? Where is the booze? Where's the fun? It was not like this the last time I was here!" he asked.
 
One of his buddies gets his head off the concrete and says "Ah yes. Last time you were a tourist."
Title: Re: Retirement in Ukraine
Post by: Eduard on December 09, 2011, 12:46:36 PM
Here are your exact words eduard,..


Americans are generally much friendlier and polite people than anywhere else. Ask any Ukrainians who live in the USA what they think.


You ARE saying that American's are more friendlier than Ukrainians eduard, and you emphasis that by saying ask any Ukrainian living in the USA what they think.

Well eduard, I have talked to many Ukraine women in America, many Ukraine women who are happily married, many of these Ukraine women live within 50 miles of me and I am able to see and speak with quite often but there are many Ukraine women who live across America who have expressed the same feelings, that so many more American people are just plain rude. And I see this as well.

I was also comparing the two cultures eduard. You see eduard, their are so many Ukraine people who speak good English that it is easy to have conversations with them to get a good understanding as to what is going on in Ukraine and what Ukrainian's are thinking. And by and large eduard, most of these individuals are educated people.

You want to tell Doug that because he does not speak the language he really can't get a good feel for the culture or people but you are wrong eduard in that one does not have to speak the Ukraine language when one can speak with so many Ukrainian's who have a good grasp of English.   Now, for those who have a hidden agenda in that they really need to speak the Ukraine language, or hire someone who does, I can see why you are saying this to Doug.
I don't need to sell anything to Doug, he was already my client. Grow up, jack. I thought that service providers weren't supposed to talk to each other any more? Why do you need to continue starting these pissing matches even after you were told by the admin not to do that? You think that people are so stupid that you must tell them that you, jack know better? Give them some credit, they will figure things out.
Title: Re: Retirement in Ukraine
Post by: Ade on December 09, 2011, 01:00:58 PM
I don't need to sell anything to Doug, he was already my client. Grow up, jack. I thought that service providers weren't supposed to talk to each other any more? Why do you need to continue starting these pissing matches even after you were told by the admin not to do that? You think that people are so stupid that you must tell them that you, jack know better? Give them some credit, they will figure things out.

Just ignore him.

Personally, I couldn't care less which of you is right, which of you provides the better service or which of you speaks the language. I do care that your back and forth bickering between each other has polluted several forums.

Come on, grow up and just ignore him. I know that's too much to ask Jack, but at least if you do, you'll look the better man.
Title: Re: Retirement in Ukraine
Post by: chivo on December 09, 2011, 01:41:57 PM
To the OP.
 
I remember when I was thinking about moving to these parts. All my friends in America thought I was crazy. All my Russian friends, and I had a few before I moved here, thought I was crazy too.
 
Only one person out of all that knew thought I was doing the right thing or said anything positive about it. Some knew what was here, others didn't have a clue. I knew though that I had to follow my heart and do what I thought was in my best interest. It's my life and if everybody else thought I was crazy so be it.
 
I have no doubt now that I made the right choice. I would do it again in a heartbeat. It may not be what others would do or want, but I know that it's right for me. And that's the bottom line.
 
There will always be naysayers. They will spout their experiences as "your" facts even when then don't walk in your shoes. They will put fear into your head, lord knows for whatever reason and comment as if they see your life as you do.
 
I came many times to Russia before I finally moved here. I've lived in 2 other cities besides Moscow and each place was more than livable even if others would never live there. I knew what I was getting myself into and I was all right with it. Yes, health issues and what to do about them was a concern, no question.
 
For me it has been maybe the best decision I have ever made and followed through on.
 
I am not here to tell you to do one thing or the other. You have been to Ukraine enough to know what is going on there. You have seen your life there and you seem OK with it. Actually more than OK with it. You know whether or not it can be done on your end and you are an age where you can weigh the facts and make an honest assessment of the situation.
 
If it's strictly to make your wife happy, then you do what you have to. If it's a matter of following your heart, it's your life and it's the only one you get. I say follow your heart.
 
 
Title: Re: Retirement in Ukraine
Post by: Jack on December 09, 2011, 02:05:57 PM

I thought that service providers weren't supposed to talk to each other any more?



eduard, I thought Service Providers were not suppose to include anything about there business in the signature line or avatar, did you not read what Dan wrote you? 

Look at our two profiles and avatars eduard.  Which one of us is capable of following the rules and guidelines we were instructed to follow?

I guess you are above all other service providers and can include a link to your site and promotion of your business although you were advised it was against the TOS of this discussion forum.  What do you have to say about that eduard?


As far as growing up eduard it is you who is always writing if you cannot speak the language you will not be successful. Well, if guy's only met ladies who did not speak English you might be correct but as it is eduard MANY Russian and Ukraine ladies speak English and as such the man and woman DO share a common language and do not need a third person to be part of there courtship.

Title: Re: Retirement in Ukraine
Post by: Ade on December 09, 2011, 02:10:53 PM
Can't the mods ban one of these guys and be done with it?
Title: Re: Retirement in Ukraine
Post by: ghost of moon goddess on December 09, 2011, 02:57:24 PM

Fact is it's much more of a "user culture" in Ukraine and generally people are more likely to use and take advantage of other people when they are given the opportunity. I guess it's that third world mentality in a way.


Eduard, I assume when you speak of American, Ukrainian or any other country's culture you  are referring to the shared language, traditions and beliefs that set each of these peoples apart from others!?

It is obvious that culture -  the values, traditions, upbringing, ets - is what creates the person, UW particularly.

How would you explain that  AM (retaining original traditions of their "superior first world culture") are looking for serious relationships and even falling in love with UW  that bear the imprint of personalities with "the third world mentality"?

When AM are lucky enough to have the best, why take anything less ???       
Title: Re: Retirement in Ukraine
Post by: Eduard on December 09, 2011, 04:03:23 PM
Eduard, I assume when you speak of American, Ukrainian or any other country's culture you  are referring to the shared language, traditions and beliefs that set each of these peoples apart from others!?

It is obvious that culture -  the values, traditions, upbringing, ets - is what creates the person, UW particularly.

How would you explain that  AM (retaining original traditions of their "superior first world culture") are looking for serious relationships and even falling in love with UW  that bear the imprint of personalities with "the third world mentality"?

When AM are lucky enough to have the best, why take anything less ???       
Goddess, I was mostly talking about two traits - friendliness and rudeness. In my experience people are friendlier and nicer to each other in the USA than in Ukraine. I'm not talking about how people act with some one who they have a close personal relationship with, rather how they treat total strangers. personally I get treated equally well whether I'm in Ukraine, Russia or the USA but my statement is based on the observations through out many years and much time spent in all 3 countries. I agree with you that every person is different and it all depends on how they were brought up.


How would you explain that  AM (retaining original traditions of their "superior first world culture") are looking for serious relationships and even falling in love with UW  that bear the imprint of personalities with "the third world mentality"?
Although there are wonderful women in Ukraine, I'm sure you would agree with me that there are plenty of women who are not so nice. Why do WM look for women in Ukraine? Several reasons:
1. UW on average are a lot prettier and slimmer than available WW.
2. The mail order bride industry has been selling the hype about RW and UW which isn't always true, and WM have been buying it.
3. The demographics make it a lot easier for a WM to find a desirable mate in Russia or Ukraine compared to places like Canada or the USA


Just FYI, I love my Ukrainian family, they will do anything for me and I for them. My father was born and raised in Ukraine and both of my grandmothers are from Ukraine. So I'm not biased or prejudice, just making objective observations. There are lots of great people in Ukraine and it pains me to see how they must survive in their country run by gangsters where they have to do whatever it takes to survive. Lots of times people have to be involved in illegal or criminal activities there simply because there is no other way to survive. I've observed several former criminals totally change once they came to the USA. They got decent jobs where they could make good money and support themselves and their families and they simply didn't need to be involved in doing something shady any more, because we live in a country of laws. Nothing is perfect off course, there is corruption and lawlessness here as well, but nothing like in Ukraine. But America is changing rapidly and we might have a serious financial and maybe even a political crisis here pretty soon IMO. Our politicians have done a great job looting the country and if things don't change quickly the US could be at the point of no return. I hope and pray that we can still turn this country around. It still is the greatest country in the world IMO.
Title: Re: Retirement in Ukraine
Post by: calmissile on December 09, 2011, 04:51:30 PM
I am starting this thread to hear from Americans and others that have migrated to Ukraine for retirement.  Would like to get opinions from those actually living in Ukraine as to the monthly costs, relative enjoyment of life while living there and the downsides, if any.

Would also hope to hear from some folks that might be living outside the big cities.  Also, those with large gardens to supplement their food sources.


It's amazing how you can ask a specific question and have a whole thread full of unrelated answers.
I am not going to respond to all the comments but will address a few.  As far as I can tell there were maybe two reponses from people that either live in or have lived in Ukraine.
1.  We have the option of retiring in Ukraine, USA, or moving back and forth.
2.  I don't need to worry about buying property in Ukraine, we already own a farm and home there.
3.  The health care responses was appreciated and thank you for the info.  It is a valid concern.
4.  I have already been twice to Ukraine and we spent a continuous month together in the city we have a home.  My opinion about the culture, the language, etc. is all that is necessary on this topic.  If I did not like it we would not keep our home there.
5.  The Social Security comments are only partially true.  I spent the better part of yesterday at the SS office with them using their internal site to research the questions.  The only reason the FSU countries are on the 'special requirements' list is because the US does not have an agreement with them to receive death notices and vital statistics.  The US does have it with Russian and some other FSU countries, but not Ukraine.  It has nothing to do with corruption.  SS wants to minimize sending out SS checks to deceased persons and have someone else cashing them.  It is NOT illegal to have your check deposited to a US bank and using your ATM card to retrieve the money.  There can be all kinds of potential problems that can occur doing this but not because of the SSA.  You CAN have your check delivered to the embassy in Kiev and you have to pick it up personally.  There are many other options such as letting the SS direct deposits accumulate in one account and using another account to draw money from.  This is not a big issue and not sure why some thought it was.  That is why I went to the SS office to find out what the options were.
6.  I don't need to move from my current location to grow a garden.  I buy groceries at a store like everyone else :)  When in Ukraine it is part of the culture plus, we like eating out of the garden.
7.  As far as the atmosphere, corruption, and the rest of the negative comments about Ukraine I will trust the wisdom and advice of my wife that was born in Ukraine and been there 46 years.  My personal experience while being there paints a much different picture than some of the comments suggest.  In any case those type of tradeoff's are for us to decide.
8.  I don't belive I indicated that I had planned to make a permanent move and detachment from our home in the US.  If I did so, I was mistaken.  We plan on keeping both homes and can freely live wherever we wish.

I hope that my simple request to hear from those living in Ukraine might still be answered.

Doug
Title: Re: Retirement in Ukraine
Post by: siberia on December 09, 2011, 05:06:50 PM

  We plan on keeping both homes and can freely live wherever we wish.

Doug



I can only comment on this statement.  Technically, it will be a few years till you can do that. Your wife will come here and while waiting for green card, any time spent out of the USA is counted against her. The government  does not want to give green cards to people who do not want to LIVE in the USA.  Once she is a US citizen, that changes of course. She can do what she wants as for travel.
I cannot quote the letter of law on this, as my experience doing all the immigration processes are too long ago, starting in 1998.  I do know that this fact is true though and has not changed.
Title: Re: Retirement in Ukraine
Post by: Misha on December 09, 2011, 05:13:44 PM
2.  I don't need to worry about buying property in Ukraine, we already own a farm and home there.


Technically, it is not the "we" that owns the property, but the "she." I expect that it is your fiance who owns a farm and a home in Ukraine.


Quote
I hope that my simple request to hear from those living in Ukraine might still be answered.


You might want to search and read the posts by krimster a long-time resident, very jaded, and from what he posted very happy to be back living in the USA.
Title: Re: Retirement in Ukraine
Post by: calmissile on December 09, 2011, 05:17:08 PM
Thanks Misha,
Your correct, she owns it but refers to it as ours.   Hopefully in a couple of months it will be technically 'we'.

I will look for the posts your mentioned, thanks.
Title: Re: Retirement in Ukraine
Post by: Faux Pas on December 10, 2011, 09:42:43 AM
Calmissle


Honestly, IMHO it seems like you are still romanticizing about Ukraine. Understandable. I understand you are looking for info from those that may have blazed that trail before you. There are some. There aren't many here who have been long term successful but some who went the distance. I would encourage you to do a search on RWD for "ScottinCrimea" and "Krimster" Both lived in Ukraine. Both posted about it and even though sometimes agreed, most times did not. However, both eventually, left for different reasons. It might enlighten you somewhat
Title: Re: Retirement in Ukraine
Post by: Daveman on December 10, 2011, 11:45:13 AM
Calmissle


Honestly, IMHO it seems like you are still romanticizing about Ukraine. Understandable. I understand you are looking for info from those that may have blazed that trail before you. There are some. There aren't many here who have been long term successful but some who went the distance. I would encourage you to do a search on RWD for "ScottinCrimea" and "Krimster" Both lived in Ukraine. Both posted about it and even though sometimes agreed, most times did not. However, both eventually, left for different reasons. It might enlighten you somewhat


Yep, and also LiveFromUkraine as well as the late dbneeley







Title: Re: Retirement in Ukraine
Post by: tfcrew on December 10, 2011, 12:17:26 PM
I am starting this thread to hear from Americans and others that have migrated to Ukraine for retirement.  Would like to get opinions from those actually living in Ukraine 

Would also hope to hear from some folks that might be living outside the big cities.  Also, those with large gardens to supplement their food sources.


It's amazing how you can ask a specific question and have a whole thread full of unrelated answers.
 
Tone there Doug.
After all, this is primarily, a Western guys who want to bring their foreign brides to their home forum....open to all who wish to post.

There was actually only one such response that I saw [LiveFromUkraine]
And you didn't seem to like like his remarks.
I just only curious are you actually retirement age?

 I did see this on moon goddess' link...

Quote
Ukrainian banks are permitted to open accounts for foreign nationals, including banks accoutns for business purposes.

For more information please refer to be publication by Carlton Legal "Banking in Ukraine: Golden Opportunities" (overview of banking in Ukraine, including banking regulations, reliability of Ukrainian banks, international banks active in Ukraine, opening bank accounts in Ukraine, money transfers, deposits in Ukrainian banks and many other issues). The publication is available by e-mail at carltoninfo@ukr.net
Good luck 
Karl
Title: Re: Retirement in Ukraine
Post by: calmissile on December 10, 2011, 01:19:27 PM
Thanks guys for the responses.
I am searching for the links you suggested.  I have read some of Krimster's posts and will search for the others.

Tfcrew,
Yes I retired several years ago, however I have been doing consulting work on several DOD programs the past 5 years and also am doing Avionics work for a local company in my lab in my home.

Doug
Title: Re: Retirement in Ukraine
Post by: Manny on December 10, 2011, 06:05:21 PM
Your correct, she owns it but refers to it as ours.   Hopefully in a couple of months it will be technically 'we'.

Not really. Hers will be the name on the registration; not yours.

Dont put the cart before the horse. You are not even married yet - there is no "we". Stated intent is all you have right now.

It is hers, and will remain hers. Don't fool yourself you would ever convince a foreign court - in a language you don't speak - otherwise. On the other hand, she would easily convince an American court that as your wife she has a claim to your worldly goods.

My wife owns several properties in Russia, and a *nice* dacha by the Volga, and a few garages and some other stuff. After half a decade, I am not foolish enough to refer to them as "ours". My name isn't on them, they are not mine, I cant sell them or use them as collateral. They are hers. I call them her safety net. Income is minimal, but if I dropped off the twig tomorrow, she would have stuff to sell to iron out the creases in life for a while.

As you have been told on two forums now - a dose of realism is in order. You have had advice from people who *actually* own property in the FSU. Because what you read was not convenient, you now seek to limit the responses to just Ukraine. That wont work either. However many times you re-frame the question or try to limit the replies, the answers will be the same whichever forum you choose to hover on.

Its like "Ask the Audience" on "Who Wants to be a Millionaire?" - The collective is usually right. The people who have and/or do live in these places know more than the guy who visited twice and thinks he knows it all.
Title: Re: Retirement in Ukraine
Post by: Misha on December 11, 2011, 04:39:19 AM
It is hers, and will remain hers.


Yes, and past experience of other members does highlight this. I do not recall the details, but I believe it was ScottinCrimea who had invested in property in Ukraine and it was either in his wife's or his MIL's name. [Others can correct me if I am wrong.] He was confident that his MIL would treat him honestly. We never knew the end of the story, but I expect that the property that was hers remained hers and I sadly doubt that Scott ever received a penny or a hryvnia in return...
Title: Re: Retirement in Ukraine
Post by: Muzh on December 12, 2011, 07:32:57 AM
How would you explain that  AM (retaining original traditions of their "superior first world culture") are looking for serious relationships and even falling in love with UW  that bear the imprint of personalities with "the third world mentality"?

When AM are lucky enough to have the best, why take anything less ???       

 
LMAO
 
Love it!
Title: Re: Retirement in Ukraine
Post by: Muzh on December 12, 2011, 07:35:26 AM
Calmissle


Honestly, IMHO it seems like you are still romanticizing about Ukraine. Understandable. I understand you are looking for info from those that may have blazed that trail before you. There are some. There aren't many here who have been long term successful but some who went the distance. I would encourage you to do a search on RWD for "ScottinCrimea" and "Krimster" Both lived in Ukraine. Both posted about it and even though sometimes agreed, most times did not. However, both eventually, left for different reasons. It might enlighten you somewhat

Not so fast.
 
I know a one Jimmy Key who retired to Crimea quite a few years ago to be with his young wife (I think he is in his 60s and she in her 40s or mid-30s) and he raves about it.
Title: Re: Retirement in Ukraine
Post by: Faux Pas on December 12, 2011, 07:46:23 AM

Not so fast.
 
I know a one Jimmy Key who retired to Crimea quite a few years ago to be with his young wife (I think he is in his 60s and she in her 40s or mid-30s) and he raves about it.


I don't know how you mined an opinion out of that post Muzh because quite frankly, I don't have one.


IIRC, ScottinCrimea raved about it as well and also IIRC Krimster was a bit disenchanted with the whole scene. I remember Scott not wanting to return to the US and Krim wanted out like his ass was on fire. I only mentioned these two posters so calmissle could get a more realistic idea of the different views from the real "boots on the ground" so to speak.


Did Jimmy Key post here in the past?


You know it is my opinion that one could make a half dozen vacation visits to Iran or Bangladesh and if the visits were pleasant each time like finding a beautiful woman to share the vacation with, the formed opinion of the visitor is likely a bit more than skewed. Would you agree?
Title: Re: Retirement in Ukraine
Post by: Muzh on December 12, 2011, 07:53:06 AM

I don't know how you mined an opinion out of that post Muzh because quite frankly, I don't have one.
 

Relax Bud. I guess I "read it wrong". The good and bad, that is.



Did Jimmy Key post here in the past?


Don't know. I know him fro the RWL and the RBL.



You know it is my opinion that one could make a half dozen vacation visits to Iran or Bangladesh and if the visits were pleasant each time like finding a beautiful woman to share the vacation with, the formed opinion of the visitor is likely a bit more than skewed. Would you agree?

You ask because you didn't read the story I posted upthread. Then you'd know that I agree.
 
I just wanted Doug to know that it can be done, however, this is not for the faint of heart.
Title: Re: Retirement in Ukraine
Post by: Vinnvinny on December 12, 2011, 07:55:51 AM
I know a one Jimmy Key who retired to Crimea quite a few years ago to be with his young wife (I think he is in his 60s and she in her 40s or mid-30s) and he raves about it.


I know of another guy who has retired to Crimea and has lived there a few years with his Ukrainian wife. I have invited him to contribute here .....
Title: Re: Retirement in Ukraine
Post by: Faux Pas on December 12, 2011, 08:02:35 AM
I've never been to Ukraine so I have no honest opinion of it. I do personally know a number of Ukrainians but, that hardly makes me qualified to give an opinion. However, FWIW, I do know Russia.


I can state emphatically, even if I were independently wealthy (which isn't expected in this lifetime) I would never move to live permanently or to retire in Russia. I absolutely love the country, the culture and the people and I know a lot about it. Which is why you'll never find me a permanent resident. The disadvantages of being a foreigner in Russia is the main reason. I imagine it is much the same in Ukraine. It's much to unstable for long term planning. Not that the US is much better at this point in time but, I wouldn't hitch my long term security wagon to the FSU. The only safe bet for a foreigner in these places is that your investments are gone the day you make them.
Title: Re: Retirement in Ukraine
Post by: Faux Pas on December 12, 2011, 08:09:28 AM

Relax Bud. I guess I "read it wrong". The good and bad, that is.

 


I didn't take that as a lob my friend or an intended jab back at you. Just pointing it out.
Quote
Don't know. I know him fro the RWL and the RBL.

 
You ask because you didn't read the story I posted upthread. Then you'd know that I agree.
 
I just wanted Doug to know that it can be done, however, this is not for the faint of heart.


Seems to me from my vantage point, this little factoid is being overlooked by the OP. Such a move could very easily "be done", this I have no doubt. How one comes out the other end of it would be the question.
Title: Re: Retirement in Ukraine
Post by: Donna_Pedro on December 12, 2011, 08:33:00 AM
Ade,

1.  A quieter, more simple life.  Out of the hustle and bustle of the big city.
2.  Much more friendly people, and closer ties to neighbors.
3.  A new adventure in a different country/culture.
4.  Closer ties to my wifes family.
5.  Enjoyment of raising ones own food on the farm.
6.  No economic worries.


With this being such a big pile of crap its hard to figure out where to start  picking it all apart, so I wont even try.  My husband does not want to retire in the US, as he is (in his own words) "sick and tired of bs in this country" but we want our retirement to be 100% problem free, which Ukraine (and Russia, for that matter) is not. We dont mind living in a village but it needs to be a 100% civilized village, with access to western quality medical health at the very least!
Title: Re: Retirement in Ukraine
Post by: SMS60 on December 12, 2011, 09:57:42 AM
Another American male who is selling his soul on the whims of a woman.

This is not what Doug wants. None of the excuses make sense. This is what his fiance wants. He is afraid to tell her no for the fear of her rejecting him.

Working for the DOD and wants to move to Ukraine. Don't make sense. The power of female persuasion.
Title: Re: Retirement in Ukraine
Post by: Misha on December 12, 2011, 10:00:32 AM
The power of female persuasion.


Is this truly what she wants? Call me cynical, but I have my doubts. Her children are still young, I expect that she would prefer that they finish their schooling in the United States and get an American passport and have the option of working and living in the USA in the future  :-X
Title: Re: Retirement in Ukraine
Post by: Misha on December 12, 2011, 10:01:26 AM
We dont mind living in a village but it needs to be a 100% civilized village, with access to western quality medical health at the very least!


In that case I would recommend Kansas any day over Ukraine  ;)
Title: Re: Retirement in Ukraine
Post by: SMS60 on December 12, 2011, 10:30:26 AM
Misha your so cute. I'm just giving my opinion like everyone else

Why don't you ask Doug the question not me. I don't know
Title: Re: Retirement in Ukraine
Post by: Misha on December 12, 2011, 10:38:49 AM
Misha your so cute. I'm just giving my opinion like everyone else

Why don't you ask Doug the question not me. I don't know


I did bring it up, but Doug never responded  :-X
Title: Re: Retirement in Ukraine
Post by: Donna_Pedro on December 12, 2011, 10:52:59 AM

Quote
Is this truly what she wants? Call me cynical, but I have my doubts. Her children are still young, I expect that she would prefer that they finish their schooling in the United States

American passport is a different story of course, but schooling, actually, is better there. I mean, if we are talking about secondary education. And even universities are not that bad. And american income (even a modest retirement income) can buy an even better quality of the education. And in general, living in Ukraine on american income -isnt it what every ukrainian woman dreams of? Think about the girlfriends.. they will literally die of envy.
Title: Re: Retirement in Ukraine
Post by: Misha on December 12, 2011, 11:05:52 AM

American passport is a different story of course, but schooling, actually, is better there. I mean, if we are talking about secondary education. And even universities are not that bad. And american income (even a modest retirement income) can buy an even better quality of the education. And in general, living in Ukraine on american income -isnt it what every ukrainian woman dreams of? Think about the girlfriends.. they will literally die of envy.


I am not really all that convinced that the schooling is better there. True, it is different, with more emphasis on rote memorization. However, different does not equal better. However, it is easier to be better than the United States given how badly the country generally ranks in global rankings of quality of education and how well students test in math, science, reading and writing. As for universities, the ones in the FSU rarely rank in the top 200 or even 500 in global rankings.


As for the question of the passport, don't you have to live a set amount of time in the USA to get citizenship? Would not the children have to be sponsored before a certain age to give them access to American citizenship? I don't know the answer to these questions, but I expect that they would have to live a certain amount of time in the USA and relatively quickly to do this.
Title: Re: Retirement in Ukraine
Post by: Donna_Pedro on December 12, 2011, 11:21:46 AM

I am not really all that convinced that the schooling is better there.

 I am. I  brought my child here when he was 13. He is turning 24 next month and fixing to go to a law school next year (this is one part of american education that I am still not familiar with - grad schools). Anyway, in 10 years he has studied in middle- and (public)high schools in 4 states, in 1 community college, and in a university. Also he has experienced european education on several occasions as we were able to send him to study there for a while. So as you may see, I have a pretty good understanding of strengths and weaknesses of american system compared to russian. And if I could repeat my experience I would try to keep my child in a Russian school a while longer, because, to my opinion, my son has never had a proper challenge here, in the states.
Title: Re: Retirement in Ukraine
Post by: Misha on December 12, 2011, 11:49:14 AM

 I am. I  brought my child here when he was 13. He is turning 24 next month and fixing to go to a law school next year (this is one part of american education that I am still not familiar with - grad schools). Anyway, in 10 years he has studied in middle- and (public)high schools in 4 states, in 1 community college, and in a university. Also he has experienced european education on several occasions as we were able to send him to study there for a while. So as you may see, I have a pretty good understanding of strengths and weaknesses of american system compared to russian. And if I could repeat my experience I would try to keep my child in a Russian school a while longer, because, to my opinion, my son has never had a proper challenge here, in the states.


Yet, according to the OECD PISA rankings Russia comes in 43rd: http://www.oecd.org/dataoecd/54/12/46643496.pdf (http://www.oecd.org/dataoecd/54/12/46643496.pdf)
Title: Re: Retirement in Ukraine
Post by: Muzh on December 12, 2011, 12:43:45 PM
<tweet> (Blowing the whistle)
 
Time out.
 
The FSU teaches better study habits than the US. US has better colleges than the FSU.
 
Perfect marriage.
Title: Re: Retirement in Ukraine
Post by: Donna_Pedro on December 12, 2011, 12:48:11 PM
Ok, lets start throwing links at each other.  ;D  Here, National center for education statistics (see page 4, for example - math performance in the 8th grade, or page 5 - science performance)
http://nces.ed.gov/pubs99/1999081.pdf (http://nces.ed.gov/pubs99/1999081.pdf)
 
Statistical data on these matters could be quite different depending on the method of approach. Anyway, my personal opinion, based on  my extensive personal experience, that secondary education in my country is far better than here.
 
Title: Re: Retirement in Ukraine
Post by: Misha on December 12, 2011, 12:55:44 PM
Statistical data on these matters could be quite different depending on the method of approach. Anyway, my personal opinion, based on  my extensive personal experience, that secondary education in my country is far better than here.


We will have to agree to disagree then. I would say that each system has their advantages and disadvantages (comparing Canada and Russia).
Title: Re: Retirement in Ukraine
Post by: ML on December 12, 2011, 01:35:44 PM
Anyway, my personal opinion, based on  my extensive personal experience, that secondary education in my country is far better than here.

But does Misha have a valid point?  That many countries outside USA focus on standard questions with rote memorization.  This helps explain why oriental countries and some others score much higher on standardized exams.  The school systems there teach to the exams rather than a broader education which allows for creativity.

Not saying which is best for the long run and for economic development of a country . . . but there are pros and cons to be considered.

Another taboo aspect is that USA standardized scores are aggregates of very diverse groups living in USA, some cultures of which discourage excellence by the students.  This is not an issue in many other countries with homogenized populations that encourage excellence in the classroom.
Title: Re: Retirement in Ukraine
Post by: Donna_Pedro on December 12, 2011, 02:32:08 PM
But does Misha have a valid point? 

I am sure he does. Our approach is more academic. American is more "hands-on".  But in general things like "no child left behind" and a lot of political correctness at school greatly effect the quality of education, reducing demands. In their efforts to please  minorities,  they are making it less challenging for the rest of the children.  I remember when my son was in the 10th grade the school counselor refused to let him take math, english and two science classes in one semester, suggesting that he would take a pottery class instead, and only after my visit to school, she agreed to let him take all these "hard" classes, with my clear understanding that "if my son had bad grades I would not blame school for it". In Russia the school challenged my child with no help from me. Here I had to apply considerable efforts (and pay money) to have him properly challenged.
Title: Re: Retirement in Ukraine
Post by: Faux Pas on December 12, 2011, 02:56:55 PM

I am sure he does. Our approach is more academic. American is more "hands-on".  But in general things like "no child left behind" and a lot of political correctness at school greatly effect the quality of education, reducing demands. In their efforts to please  minorities,  they are making it less challenging for the rest of the children.  I remember when my son was in the 10th grade the school counselor refused to let him take math, english and two science classes in one semester, suggesting that he would take a pottery class instead, and only after my visit to school, she agreed to let him take all these "hard" classes, with my clear understanding that "if my son had bad grades I would not blame school for it". In Russia the school challenged my child with no help from me. Here I had to apply considerable efforts (and pay money) to have him properly challenged.


IMHO, all quite true. There has for the last 20 years been a systematic "dumbing down" of the public school system in the US. No Child Left Behind only compounded the problem. It is a different approach that has been failing miserably IMHO. Children should be allowed to fail and succeed without government involvement disguised as protecting the psyche.


There are alternatives and those being private schools. Most are expensive and worth it. The "free education" sounds great in theory but, you do get what you pay for.
Title: Re: Retirement in Ukraine
Post by: GQBlues on December 12, 2011, 03:14:36 PM
You bet demographics have a huge impact in public schools...worst when you have the government meddling with the educational system. If you can't enroll your kids in private schools, then make sure they choose a public schools that have a large population of Asian kids, LOL. It isn't a coincidence the top schools in the country have just that.
 
http://education.usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/best-high-schools (http://education.usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/best-high-schools)
Title: Re: Retirement in Ukraine
Post by: Misha on December 12, 2011, 03:21:43 PM
Our approach is more academic. American is more "hands-on".


Again, the two systems are different. As you certainly know, after the 9th grade, students in Russia are given the option of continuing their education in vocational training schools where they can complete their grades 10 and 11. Thus, you filter out the less academically inclined students to the "hands-on" training.
Title: Re: Retirement in Ukraine
Post by: Donna_Pedro on December 12, 2011, 04:15:57 PM
Quote
Again, the two systems are different.

 I am not argueing this point. Threy are different.
 
Quote
continuing their education in vocational training schools

 
I remember our school teacher used to scare us with that "option". "If you dont do good on your tests - she used to say - you will go to PTU(vocational traning school), with all those debils and morons, or worse - to the military".  :D
Here the approach is different. They dont push students to excel. They dont motivate them to get higher education. Of course if everybody is an engineer or a doctor, who will serve you food in restaurants? But from a college-minded mother's prospective, I want my child to be properly challenged at school. And Russian school, IMO, gives more in this regard.
Title: Re: Retirement in Ukraine
Post by: Misha on December 12, 2011, 04:24:21 PM
Bright students do well everywhere as do motivated students with educated parents. The hard part is teaching the mediocre and getting them to excel or capturing the less-than-motivated students. I am not convinced Russia does any better than Canada in this regard.
Title: Re: Retirement in Ukraine
Post by: Donna_Pedro on December 12, 2011, 05:10:29 PM
Quote
I am not convinced Russia does any better than Canada in this regard

 
I dont know about Canada, but I can say for US vs Russia. In Russia the program in each subject is the same for everybody. They dont care if you like math or not, you are taking it on the same level with everybody else. And if memory serves my 10th grade math was equivalent to american Calculus 2 (integration/differentiation etc). I was never super bright in math. I struggled big time. And I dont use math in my everyday life (at least not at that level), but I am glad I had it at school, as math develops your brain, increases abilities for logical thinking and in general widen your mental horizons.  Here my son had a choice - to keep taking math to a Cal2 level or stop at Algebra 1.  If it was not for his mother, brainwashing him daily on the importance of education, i dont know what  he would choose. I dont think that every teenager is mature enough on his own (without parental input)to pick Calculus 2 if he could pick Algebra1 and relax. American school leaves motivation to parents. Instead it provides politically correct brainwashing. I would prefer for them to motivate my child and leave brainwashing to me.
Title: Re: Retirement in Ukraine
Post by: Misha on December 12, 2011, 05:40:34 PM
I dont know about Canada, but I can say for US vs Russia. In Russia the program in each subject is the same for everybody.


The difference is as follows: in Canada, students will study in the same high school but some students will take courses that will lead to university while others will take courses so they can get a high school diploma and then go off to do some vocational training or perhaps college. In Russia, the students who want to go to university will go to grade 10, the others won't. It is the same thing, just different means of streaming students. In my case, my parents did not have to motivate me as I wanted to go to university. There was no way that I would stay on the farm to shovel more manure  ;) Comparing the students who make it to university in Russia and those who make it to Canada, I can't really say that the former are automatically better than the latter...
Title: Re: Retirement in Ukraine
Post by: Eduard on December 12, 2011, 06:42:12 PM
American school leaves motivation to parents. Instead it provides politically correct brainwashing. I would prefer for them to motivate my child and leave brainwashing to me.
  :clapping: