Idiots in Spain are trying for an even worse outcome.
The same sort of mindless lashing out by voters that has landed the US with an utter moron as its president.
I agree that Brexit is idiocy. The same sort of mindless lashing out by voters that has landed the US with an utter moron as its president.
Nevertheless I suspect that the £ wont fall further.
The same sort of mindless lashing out by voters that has landed the US with an utter moron as its president.
The pendulum swung hard to the left when Obama was president. I'm not surprised it swung hard to the right this time. That is happening in Europe in many places.
Spain, Italy and other major and minor nations are seeing nationalism rise and people want to breakaway from governments they feel aren't properly representing them.
I don't think those in the UK should feel bad about Brexit.
You can make your future better than the EU can.
The way I see it, would it be better for America to join a union like a EU or remain independent? Certainly America is better off determining it's own future than to have a bunch of bureaucrats from other nations tell us what to do. UK can do the same, after all, you once were on top.
LMAO! Trump had done more in a day than that useless hag you call your queen in a year. :devil:
If you mean tweeting bollox, you might have a point ! He certainly has made America Grate
The Queen is head of state - but in a purely ceremonial sense.
Now if - by 'useless hag' - you meant Theresa May, you'd have a point.... Called an election, to get a mandate and lost her overall majority .. :ROFL:
If you mean tweeting bollox, you might have a point ! He certainly has made America Grate
The Queen(sic) is head of state - but in a purely ceremonial sense.
Now if - by 'useless hag' - you meant Theresa May, you'd have a point.... Called an election, to get a mandate and lost her overall majority .. :ROFL:
Moby -- you are responding to a clown that still thinks the sun shines out of Trump's arse !
1/ UK - elected a right of centre govt, with the anti-EU nationalists losing all their representation and the Scots nationalist ( s.left of centre ) losing out to the sl.right govt - but the sl. right govt losing out to the Socialists ..
2/ France - elected a centrist President and thrashing the nationalist candidate in the head to head - and said nationalist party got whooped in the following parliamentary elections
3/ Germany - the centre right party won a forth term
Trade between nations is good - it creates inter-dependencies and partnerships
This is 101 stuff, why is it SO hard for some folks to grasp ?
@Billy that was back in the days when we ran the whole of India with six men and a bicycle, and had a nice sideline going on your side of the Atlantic too, until they decided to dump our tea in cold water (something the US forces me to re-enact myself whenever I order a cup of tea there).
Things are different nowadays, and economic isolationism offers us a poor future.
Reading the news you want to hear but ignoring the rest. The majority voted for Brexit.
The left in the UK shouldn't be crybabies, graciously accept the loss
give Brexit a chance. Instead of fighting Brexit every step of the way and blaming the right, how about doing your part to help UK come out of this situation the best way they can?
Problem lies in the political system/government set up. The US got it off quite well with each state being able to be different to others but still comfortable be part of one whole. Bother the EU & Spain got it wrong by try to centilise too much power & be overbearing. Back in the ninties & early part of this century most in the UK were in favour of the EU, I was - we were a member of a European organisation for our collective good. That changed though in recent years with the admission of eastern bloc countries and a move by the EU for greater integration. They moved away from a membership organisation and towards an overbearing, controlling government force aimed at centilising power. This along with the economic & asylum crises showed that they would rule poorly and convinced those remaining undecided's in the UK that it is best we left the EU. My only concern is that we continue to proceed under the misbelief that the EU is superior and we must go to then for the scraps they throw to us. Seeing ourselves as an inferior underling of the EU is doing us no good, we should get to the Brexit way before the two years is up and get this decided and on our way.
I live in an area where the percentage of tertiary educated folk is higher and those folks voted remain
That you might think Brexit was about left or right simply suggests you really DO need to read up..
BillyB, 'my' nation voted 51/ 49 to leave the EU - but the referendum didn't say how.
Whilst I blame the leaving for 'our' current instability - and don't think we should leave - YES, 'we' must - but now there is no agreement on how to leave...
Well, Billy, as China moves up at least you know how things go.
Everybody who votes a certain way thinks the smart people voted with them too.
Take a look at a map of Brexit votes. Those in Scotland really wanted to stay in the EU. I guess they are much smarter than you guys down south based on how you think who's the smartest.
Didn't you say immigration was a part of why Brexit happened? You're not going to convince me this was simply a vote of the smart people vs. the dumb people.
Leave means leave. Doesn't have to say how to leave. It's common sense that if you have to leave, you need to do it the best way possible but it seems the losers are fighting this every step of the way dragging on the misery and increasing the costs. It seems you guys are wanting the separation from the EU to fail so you can tell the other side "See, you're wrong!". Tell your politicians to deal with reality and make the transition go smooth for the benefit of the UK.
1/ We are worse off - it was a lie
2/ Immigration went up - following the result - as those wishing to get in send the numbers rocketing
Brexit isn't going to be fully implemented until 2019 at the earliest. And you call me dumb?
After the changes are in place, wait a few years before calling the promises a lie. Be patient. What you also need to realize, the majority voters for Brexit felt the previous policies were a lie and harming the country.
Your current and previous laws pertaining to immigration allowed that to happen. Not the revised laws that will be soon created due to Brexit.
America has similar issues the UK has on immigration.
Both are incredibly clueless results of flawed democratic process.
What's the stupidest thing a nation has ever done?
Perhaps you have not heard of the Electoral College which was implemented to avoid the big cities controlling the politics of the country and leaving out the rural population. We have been using this system since the beginning and are satisfied with it. Since you are not an American, I suspect you prefer the parliamentary system. No problem, you have your system, we have ours!
Having generations of feeble-minded population get fleeced off by a useless hag, and her entire bloodline, while she cuts the fat off the hog from the mindless population who chalk it up as *ceremonial*.
She pays for herself ...
Once again it's BillyB that speak the most sense.
The £ is currently undervalued at the moment as there is a lot off oversensitivity to the Brexit situation in the financial markets. We only need to look back to the eighties & early nineties to when this country stood without the EU & before to realise this is stupid, the country has functioned perfectly well before the EU came about and will do after.
The rise in inflation is a result of Mark Carney dropping the interest rates by a quarter percent not so long ago.
the economy was perfectly stable.
Carney though is pro-EU and to me seems to be a result of his politicing.
There's a lot of very rich vested interests in Britain that hold the view that their interests should prevail over the democratic vote. Their upset because the British public didn't do as they bidded as we have done so often in the past and vote as they dictated. I mean do you really think a very wealthy guy like Bloomsberg really has any idea or consideration what life is like in the EU for the general UK public?
Don't you Americans have enough threads going without introducing your Emperor in New Clothes into the UK Brexit thread ?;)
Mobe, I'm not even sure why you introduced the Brexit thread. The way I see it, it's all been decided,
Don't you Americans have enough threads going without introducing your Emperor in New Clothes into the UK Brexit thread ?;)
Something tells me we would get a better deal post Brexit than during it. I'm will to sit this out until the inevitable leaving occurs :popcorn:
Trump was not introduced into this thread by an American. You were the third poster in this thread to mention Trump and did it numerous times. Pay attention.
Mobe, it's been decided that we ate leaving the EU, we won the vote to do so, we now have a pro leave government & article 50 has been declared. Now it is only a matter off time before we leave the EU, you may still not accept that but it is how it is, it is inevitable that we leave the EU.
I personally can't see the EU lasting long with the way it racks up debt before it itself defaults just like Greece. Saddling us down with a portion of their debt will not help them or us. We voted out of EU as we disagreed with us having to pay for EU bureaucrats to feather their own nests through over generous pensions, etc. So we should not pay them anything but rather bid them good day and be on our way. Something tells me we would get a better deal post Brexit than during it. I'm will to sit this out until the inevitable leaving occurs :popcorn:
The STUPIDITY of those seeking 'independence' over access to markets - in a macro trading world know no bounds ...((
Jumper - as a mod - Can you move your US infestation of a Brit oriented thread elsewhere, please :welcome: ?
Anyway - back on topic ..
The likes of Trench - who thought this was a good idea ... now see we have
1/ Inflation - due to the GBP fall - so costs rose - so now interest rates have been put up - for the first time in 10 years ... which will have a dramatic effect on those borrowing as interest rates were so low..
2/ Job losses ... another - easily predictaouble - forecast by 'Protect Fear' - the Remain campaign - the 'Golden Goose' of UK PLC - Finance - the City of London - will see 75K well-paid jobs moving overseas - as Financial Giants aren't going to wait and see how many of their bright young things will need visas and the Euro-zone take measures to penalise London for having been THE place to trade in 'their' currency ..
The STUPIDITY of those seeking 'independence' over access to markets - in a macro trading world know no bounds ...((
The Brexit impact papers should bring some clarity.
I'm not a mod.
Havn't been for some time.
As minor if thread drift as ever occurs.
I would not care if it's all deleted,
but if it disrupted basically 3 people talking about Brexit,
Sporadically, while giving side shots at US politics,
It sure isn't the end of the world.
You guys have better things to fuss over here I'm sure.
Remarkably it seems the same type of lower income demographic that was dumb enough to elect Trump in the US and then find that Trump's tax cuts were in fact an increase in taxes for them
Can't really happen because the lower income folks in USA already pay zero Federal Income taxes. And in many cases they get a payout from the IRS when they file.
And it's pretty funny when the left wingers cry that most of the decrease in taxes will go to those in highest brackets.
How can those in lower income brackets get a decrease in taxes when they don't pay any to begin with?
This has been reported here numerous times . . . apparently to no avail.
In 2012, the top 50 percent of all taxpayers (69.2 million filers) paid 97.2 percent of all income taxes while the bottom 50 percent paid the remaining 2.8 percent.
http://taxfoundation.org/summary-latest-federal-income-tax-data-2015-update/
In 2012, the top 50 percent of all taxpayers (69.2 million filers) paid 97.2 percent of all income taxes while the bottom 50 percent paid the remaining 2.8 percent.
http://taxfoundation.org/summary-latest-federal-income-tax-data-2015-update/
And the bottom 50% earn what? under 30k per year with 12% at or below poverty level? That's the real issue.
But first the liberals here, in the press and on the talk shows have got to get over screaming that the low income people are not getting their taxes lowered. Can't lower something below zero.
Are import export taxes part of the interest in Brexit?
Naturally... if there is no deal - 'we' will be on the 'emergency' trade tariff rates ... e.g 10 percent for cars, spares, etc.
I can just see Honda, Nissan, BMW and Toyota further investing in the UK plants - if there are tariffs (
The golden goose of financial services is already looking at upping sticks and moving to Ireland, L'bourg, etc.
Remember. 'we' were sold on Brexit bringing 'savings' :deadhorse:
If the car manufacturers invest further in UK plants to avoid import tariffs then Brexit & the tariffs would have done the job they set out to do of bringing UK jobs for UK workers :D
I know there was the announcement a couple of weeks or so ago of the European Banking Organisation moving to Paris. To me this is welcome news the City crowd in London have menaced this country for too long. They take an all too dominant position on the policies of government, make no recogniseable positive impact to the lives of the general population in the UK and plunged this convey into economic chaos every decade or so, i.e credit crunch, ERM, stock market speculation & crashes, etc.
I think bidding ridden to the 'joys' of the free market will be a good thing for us.
What ARE you talking about ? - IF there was a 'hard brexit' and no deal - remembering the quickest trade tariff deals take nearly a decade and 'we' have less than two years - the Japs, Germans - etc - will be paying duty on components going in and 'we' are the assembled cars going out - what a waste of time and money...bearing in mind the goods move freely, now.
Are you so clueless about EVERYTHING you post ? ! ... London, was THE Euro trading centre and in jobs alone - the loss will be 4000 VERY well paid staff - who will be elsewhere - and their salaries and bonuses - will benefit other local business elsewhere, too
If you HAD a clue - you'd realise that many financial services industries have their top programmers in Ireland Germany, Luxembourg, et al paving the way for a move out of London .... :deadhorse:
No, that WILL not happen - esp. not in the near future -... ALL that will happen is we will lose voting rights, and pay compo to a club that will be losing jobs to - and having to obey the rules they make to trade there
Please tell me how this makes sense or is 'saving' money ?
Ah, you WILL be able to control all those 'terrible Poles' from coming and working better for less ... ((
What ARE you talking about ? - IF there was a 'hard Brest' and no deal - remembering the quickest trade tariff deals take nearly a decade and 'we' have less than two years -
NAFTA took 5 years
You assume the worst and that everyone involved are idiots.
Germany's economy would go in a tailspin if they didn't slap
together a trade deal. They could easily make a one year deal
and extend it as necessary while they cobble together their own
deal.
The stupid EU type trade deals which specify how big the holes
on Waffles should be or how the slaughter process of pigs used
in pepperoni and the color and chemical content of painted lines
on the highways take 10 years.
It's sheer stupidity for countries to make deals like those.
Those deals give idiots in another country power to get involved
in every minute detail of everyone's lives and they work daily to
get more involved.
...don't know WHERE you 'researched' that gem of nonsense.. but we certainly have more controls over the crap that goes in our food than you do !
Beel, you just do not get it ... these deals do not happen over-night - then there's the implementation...
I don't know WHERE you 'researched' that gem of nonsense.. but we certainly have more controls over the crap that goes in our food than you do !
Animal slaughter
In October 2017, the Commission concluded a study on the "Preparation of best practices on the protection of animals at the time of killing".
http://publications.europa.eu/en/publication-detail/-/publication/ea4ef3e9-cda5-11e7-a5d5-01aa75ed71a1/language-en (http://publications.europa.eu/en/publication-detail/-/publication/ea4ef3e9-cda5-11e7-a5d5-01aa75ed71a1/language-en)
In October 2017, the Commission concluded a study on the "Welfare of farmed fish: Common practices during transport and slaughter".
http://publications.europa.eu/en/publication-detail/-/publication/facddd32-cda6-11e7-a5d5-01aa75ed71a1/language-en/format-PDF/source-49981830 (http://publications.europa.eu/en/publication-detail/-/publication/facddd32-cda6-11e7-a5d5-01aa75ed71a1/language-en/format-PDF/source-49981830)
They don't have an option of taking ten years so they will do something
temporary. You are doing the chicken little thing again.
You are just like the Democrats regarding Trump. They lost, they don't get a do-over for 4 years. Setting your hair on fire isn't going to solve things. Udachi!Bill
Were pretty much most of the way there now anyway, just the Brexit bill to finish off passing and conclusion of EU negotiations. I think a lot of objection to Brexit throughout the EU is down to the fact that if/when the UK leaves it produces a blueprint as to how other nations can do it. If the UK is seen to do as good as or better than under the EU other nations & it's people may start to consider leaving too.
Not an expert here . . . but I expect a Brexit 'do over' vote with the public soon.
I don't think the issue is the loss. It is that no one was told what the real costs would be, and no one anticipated issues with Northern Ireland. Given the bloodshed this particular issue has caused the UK in the past, this is not an insignificant issue, and it may be what scuttles Brexit.
Don't take Breitbart so seriously.
Makes me laugh when some people say N.Ireland or Scotland voted remain in the referendum. Point being is that it was a national vote there was no regional vote on the matter. Votes may have been tallied up by region bit the vote was a national one. Cambridge for example voted remain but the vote overall is the only one that counts. Breaking it down by region is just ridiculous.
The single most issue people voted out was immigration from Eastern Europe.
The people of Britain minus Moby said no we are not going to go on suffering this cr*p that the EU seemed to feel it perfectly acceptable for us to endure. We said we want to take back control of our borders and shut this problem out.
Every year the population of the UK increases by a large town/small city because of this east European immigration. We can't build a large town/small city to accommodate them each year. The problem is most acute in the south of England and this is where a lot of the Leave vote came from. We really didn't give a toss for Dave Cameron 's deal, the rebate or any other issue about whether it would save us money, etc. It was EU east European migration that was the real concern and what really won it for the Leave side.
Trench, this region of the UK has the power to bring down HMG - so - unlike you - I AM aware of relevance of parts of the UK objecting to being second class citizens and having to be subject to customs / border checks when travelling within the UK
This always tickles me .. the very guys bemoaning such immigration looking to bring in a wife from further east ?.. Does your irony filter not twitch ever so slightly ? ..
51-49 meant a lot of Moby's and the people voted on leaving the EU - not HOW ..... YOU say the biggest concern was E.European migrants - I think you'll find that folks fell for the 'savings' and control bollox
Well, even of you were correct - which you aren't - as usual - The vote made foreigners as welcome as farts in a space-suit and are leaving of their own accord and will be leaving in bigger numbers when the financial golden goose in London - which also voted to remain - ( it is in the south, right ? ) - starts loosing jobs..
The midlands and north voted to leave.. even the Nissan workers in he NE - like Turkeys - voted for xmas
Really, there was no need to keep proving the one stat that isn't disputed ... smarter, better educated folks voted to remain
Mobe, if a guy wants to bring in a wife from wherever I would not have a problem with that nor I doubt many Britons its their right as a UK citizen.
It is not the race of people but how many from a certain region and the grounds they are coming to the UK. If its open borders policy then it is very irresponsible. Off course people from poor countries are going to flood to rich countries if they are open borders policy, I don't blame them who wouldn't, but it has a catastrophic affect on that rich country. Furthermore, it tend to be the general public that are on the butt end off this affect, not the rich.
Most of the huge multinationals with all their vast wealth plowed [how American ! - hmm, a trolls mistake ? ] vast sums into the Remain campaign believing that they would dictate through their massive donations how the public would voted. They were proved wrong, just :)
I'm pretty sure you'll see things improve rapidly in this country after we finally get around to leaving.
The NI question is almost sorted it is not a big deal, NI is not a big deal.
I don't think those studies are beyond the pale. The same exists in North America, and why shouldn't it? Shouldn't animals be slaughtered humanely?
Farm fishing practices are important, primarily in stopping the spread of disease, and in ensuring farmed fish do not escape netting, as they can wreak havoc on wild stock. For an example, see the escape of farmed salmon from British Columbia fish farms.
I don't think the issue is the loss. It is that no one was told what the real costs would be, and no one anticipated issues with Northern Ireland. Given the bloodshed this particular issue has caused the UK in the past, this is not an insignificant issue, and it may be what scuttles Brexit.
Don't take Breitbart so seriously.
I just don't
think that the sky will fall.
Main thing is once the door is shut then we are safely outside the EU and protected from East European migration like we used to be. Of course its not all done then and of course we will have to accept those already here, we knew that and accepted that already. Its likely that we will get a reasonable trade deal without being tied to freedom of movement as we are already aligned with the EU on the regulation side of trade. So maybe a trade deal with the EU like Ukraine has. What we will be able to do is do trade deals with other nations more readily. I think whatever way you cut it our economy will do better out of leaving the EU. I'll hand back over to Moby now for another remoan ;D
You'll hand over to Moby for another pulling apart - more like ;)
The deal now allows the very people you 'fear' to continue to come - note they had already stopped coming - given the weak Pound ..( Immigration was WAY down - even though current immigration rules still ensured freedom of movement) - thus proving the UK stopped being 'attractive'.
I'm not proud of being from a nation that relied on immigration to be 'Great' and has become insular, ignorant and racist. Discouraging bright, hard working people is plain STUPID.
You really need to stay away from E.European people, Trench - you don't 'get' them and they are all 'bad' for you ))
Well I don't class Russians & Ukrainians as East Europeans, I think its more a US term, I only class those from the former Eastern Bloc Countries as East Europeans. I would class Russians, Ukrainians wither as Russians or Slavs but not reall East Europeans as they are generally outside of Europe.
Interestingly, Poland is one of those countries that do not allow dual nationality so they are going to be forced to choose come March 2019. If they go for UK citizenship they will have to give up the citizenship of Poland their home country. How many will be willing to have their stay restricted in their country of birth in order to gain British citizenship should be interesting to see. My guess is that unless Poland changes to allow dual citizenship which they may but at the moment I doubt we could see a fair number return around Brexit time.
Well I don't class Russians & Ukrainians as East Europeans
If Ukraine is not part of Eastern Europe, what is it?
If Ukraine is not part of Eastern Europe, what is it?
Ukraine is part of the land mass west of the Asian continent.
referring to her map
Eh? Anything is more expensive than free trade or? UK trade with EU can't get much better than the current status quo.. or? As I see it, it's not about what the UK will gain from adding trade borders, but more about lessening what it will lose. In fact, you'll probably be even come out worse off with other world trade partners that will insist you buy all their crap in order to sell yours. UK will not be bargaining from a position of power and running into walls of dual and triple standard regulations... Want to sell widgets? making a US version AND an EU version sounds very expensive to me. Sell chickens and beef to EU freely? forget it after Brexit, you'll be forced to import everything banned in EU and controls will be very very tight.
http://www.theguardian.com/business/2017/nov/06/trump-ross-says-uk-us-trade-deal-eu-brexit-chlorinated-chicken
http://www.thepoultrysite.com/poultrynews/37253/how-will-uk-meat-exports-face-challenges-following-eu-exit-vote/
much much more to come.. that's for sure.
Or shall we sit back to see rich multinationals get richer and the general public become serfs under their foot.
It can, it can charge a tariff to EU firms wanting to import here. A 10 percent tariff would bring in a lot of money for the government. Currently the UK gov gets nothing in its coffers and all is supported by UK taxpayers. A 10 percent import tax is nothing to these rich multinationals who cry out for hard up UK taxpayers to support their freebie of free trade.
Or shall we sit back to see rich multinationals get richer and the general public become serfs under their foot.
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/9/97/Continental_models-Australia.gif/1280px-Continental_models-Australia.gif)
As you can see in the animation, definitions of continents/land masses vary from 4 to 7. How they are further subdivided is mostly dependent on history and cultural traditions ;).
Beel, Beel, my dear chap.
USA exports goods to the UK and we don't vote in anything there.
The sky isn't going to fall, the politicians can talk the talk but they
can't walk the walk. Angela Merkel will get tossed out of office if
her tough talk loses 2% of the UK market, which it will if she doesn't
pucker up and kiss @ss when the negotiations start.
You utter pillock.. They'll charge us, too - AND move the factories someone else
You already voted stupid and played STRAIGHT into the hands of those who simply sought to line their pockets with a cheaper GBP ....
They can only charge so much, most of these companies will either be up against domestic competitor in the UK or International competitors trading in the UK. They will most likely absorb the cost.
German products for example are overpriced, have been for a long time, sure they are often good quality though I'm beginning to doubt that they are as good a quality as they used to be. They charge a premium for this but I dare say there is a lot of profit taking that could be squeezed here/ Gov has to get more money in to get itself out of the financial hole it is currently in, this could be the place to do it.
German products for example are overpriced, have been for a long time, sure they are often good quality
Well, well, Trenchy
Those seeking a 'hard brexit' were busy telling folks that the EU talks re Brexit were just 'placating words' ...
Now they are telling us the bloody nose they got - a defeat in the Commons for Mrs May's daftness - from her own party members - is 'not serious'
Tory Brexit rebels inflict major defeat on Theresa May
Unless the Tories wake up and ditch her and the continued fantasy of a 'hard Brexit' - we're going to have Corbyn as PM - now that IS SCARY
Well no, Trenchy,
thanks for demonstrating YET ANOTHER subject on which you are simply CLUELESS
Mrs May called the last general election to get a mandate for a 'hard brexit' and now needs the DUP to survive - having LOST seats..
Having the DUP as king-makers means there will be NO hard Brexit... :deadhorse:
As ever, you simply cannot / will not read - from FSU ( women in general) and in SO many other subjects - you simply need to pay attention..
IF May goes now and Ruth Davidson became PM - that's about the only scenario that will stop the Tories losing seats at by-elections that WILL happen over five years - let alone the DUP - abandoning their support..
But German cars, though exported, are engineered for the German market, where people change cars frequently.
My cousin is a mechanic. He says German cars are very well engineered, as well as Japanese cars. The difference, he tells me, is they don't last as long.
As far as I'm aware, Japanese people change their cars more often than Europeans because of their punishing tax system. This is why there is such a huge industry involving exporting used Japanese cars, often only a year or two old, to other markets (such as New Zealand).
Cousin tells me Toyotas last longer than any other car on the market. There are VW's that last long, mostly Beetles, but the Toyota is the workhorse of the market.
Happy New Year, Beel !
As part of your New Years's enlightenment about 'Brexit' and why it cannot be complete.
The negotiators on the UK side ARE 'weak' .... they cannot dealwith part of the UK having a haerd border with the EU.. Eire ( rep of Ireland ) and N.Ireland
I would have thought post 105 made that clear.
The UK voters were sold something that simply couldn't happen as long as that border remained open
For that reason ANYONE suggesting a complete or 'hard Brexit' ( leaving with no deals re trade / immigration, etc., in place ) was always ignorant or a fibber.
Moby, unless your part of the UK negotiations team to the EU you won't know if the UK negotiators are weak because you won't know what is going on until after they have finished negotiating.
I see the new year has further clouded your brain (
IF you read, and absorbed what I wrote - you'd realise that what I pointed out before the vote AND after and especially after the DUP were needed to prop up the now minority govt - is that Northern Ireland's having a 'border' ( no immigration or customs ) with an EU state was always going to mean the UK had to have an open border... that's NO border controls - therefore how can one implement special duties / immigration rules on one EU state to keep the UK 'happy' ?
That clearly make the UK negotiating team 'weak' an the EU knew and knows it .. I'm already seeing STUPID posts from 'leave' voters demanding 'border and customs controls' from N.Ireland ))) Perhaps you 'think' like them, too ?
'Sorry' - but the rest of your post was bollox - based on the FACT - that if you don't 'get' the N.I problem - and SO many still don't - you cannot be helped ..
ALL we have done is vote to leave the EU - but must obey many rules re immigration / customs, etc., without being AT the table to help set the rules...
'real smart' ..
Mobe, I'm pretty sure the case will be that you will have to just show your passport when you board a ferry or plane to go to the UK mainland from Ireland/Northern Ireland.
:ROFL: :ROFL:
I stopped reading after that... You just keep on posting daft ..
The current minority UK govt is being held together by... the Democratic UNIONist Party ..
IF you think they'd accept showing passports and being subject to a customs check crossing to the mainland - you are either INSANE or DELUDED..
Its not just the UK government that will want it shown it will be the ferry companies and airlines as part of their company policy.
The DUP have to accept some reasonable working of this situation at the end of the day.
The UK gov cannot have a fully open back door immigration situation and they cannot have a hard border since this would not be acceptable to the DUP or Labour. If the DUP are really after scuppering the EU Brexit deal then I think it likely that the Tories will just toss it over to Labour, agree with the majority of any amendments they wish to make and then Labour will vote it through with the Tories. Labour already voted with the Tories in the early stages of the Brexit bill so I think as long as its not too far off base Labour will vote through the final bill. My guess is that the DUP will fall into line when they see that the deal put forward to them is the only conceivable deal available and not too abhorrent to their situation. The DUP may like to make big off their situation but end of the day if push really did come to shove it would be either an end of the two year and no deal automatic Brexit with hard borders that the DUP most don't want or a general election that could see the DUP out of power and Labour in, but even they will probably accept that a fully open back door policy will not work. If the Tories come back in then they will only likely do so with a working majority in that circumstance.
Pray tell, Trench - how often do you make journeys to N.I and / or Eire from Great Britain? AFAIK only Ryanair insist on a passport as ID - it is not a legal requirement
As ever, it's time you stopped posting daft and walking onto punches from folks that simply know better..
Suggest you read about the Common Travel Area http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Common_Travel_Area (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Common_Travel_Area)
You REALLY need to subscribe to Wiki - having checked the source materials used
No, they don't ..The are a pro-Brexit, pro-Union party that ensures the continuation of ( the current ) HM govt ..they are the King-makers... WAKE UP and smell the coffee..the moment Theresa May needed their support .. after calling a General Election - and losing seats - rather than gaining a 'mandate' for a 'hard Brexit' - as a negotiating stance - a hard border and 'hard Brexit' was finished....the result weakened the UK negotiators stance... This REALLY is 101 stuff...But it's'OK' - you are not alone... You have Mrs May and some of her Cabinet on your side...;)
My 'guess' is that you simply don't have a clue... We have already seen that the govt. can lose on key votes on Brexit - a clear warning.. If you imagine the DUP would accept a hard border OR having a lessor status in the Union - you need a long lie down in a dark room... You simply DO NOT understand ..They'd allow the govt to fall, first
Exactly or the airline or ferry will refuse you entry, it will be on the terms of your ticket. I think post Brexit they will all be like Ryanair. Amendments and even a delay of Brexit will be made to make the necessary changes and get a deal done even if it means going back to the electorate for another General Election.
The DUP are only useful to the Tories if thE Tories get through what they want it is not a case of the DUP being kingmaker their ability to get the Tories to a majority in parliament only gets them so far.
Moby there's nor point remoaning, Brexit is going to happen one way or another.
You just have to accept this. In a little over a year's time you will find I was right.
Well, Farage (may be, just may be) wants another referendum ...and why not...?
We can ask if :
Do you want to leave the EU?
Do you want to leave the single market ?
He's not sure as ( may be - just may be - he'll lose this time ?
http://www.facebook.com/C5News/videos/10160013176070422/ (http://www.facebook.com/C5News/videos/10160013176070422/)
Losing markets is an over-exaggeration,
Recent announcements by Junker and Tusk that they would welcome the UK back demonstrate that they are in a no win situation,
1/ 'We' are already losing the Euro clearing trade - 4,000 well paid jobs - doesn't include those that will lose out on that spending power going elsewhere
2/ That's just ONE example of UK PLC's lemming -like jumping off a cliff - to well-paid financial services sector... Estimates range from 3k ( Leave) to 150K jobs (remain) - heard it on BBC Radio 4 this lunchtime ...Rees-Mogg was in denial - as ususal
NO.. they are demonstrating that they know the younger, educated population of the UK never wanted to leave and will sooner, rather than later hold sway and we can hopefully put this lunacy - brought about by lying politicians and a gullible electorate - behind us ..
I was noted that he- like all 'leavers' - cannot explain how we can keep an open border with the EU ( N.Ireland) and do a 'hard' Brexit' ....)))
Not good to let ourselves be held to ransom Mobers
A lot of the educated younger generation voted to leave as well, a lot of them don't get a look into the jobs market because a lot of immigrants from inside & outside the EU who are ready baked in the jobs they are aiming for get them.
It looks like it's going to be a combination of soft & hard Brexit. Basically an end to freedom of movement and the single market for us but some alternative form of free trade in its place. The EU really have no choice but to aquiese in that or face a hard Brexit on a no deal situation. That would not be in the economic interests of many if it's member nations.
DUP would have no influence in this as if they got in the way it would be another General Election and they would be out of power anyway.
The young will remember all of the incompetent blunderings and impositions of the EU such as trying to force Asylum Seekers upon us against drawn up policy that they should take residence in first safe nation & the failures of the Euro with economies such as Greece, etc and their overbearing/belittling nature, I don't think they will be wanting back in somehow not if they want somewhere to live it's our only hope of controlling immigration numbers.
You are out of your depth ..
HOW can you have an 'end to freedom of movement' for EU citizens, when part of the UK ( Northern Ireland) is physically joined to an EU state and there'll be NO borders ?
This is a question the 'hard' brexiters duck and dodge ..as time gets closer - it will bring down May's govt.
The DUP will sacrifice being king-makers rather than allowing a 'hard' Brexit... You don't understand 101 stuff.
Really you make me laugh Mobers, yes, anyone in the EU will likely be able to come to the UK and vice versa BUT they will not have the right to work anymore, they will have to acquire documentation (visa) proving they have been given the right to work. So it will be a bit like Ukraine and the system brought in last year where they could visit as tourists just not go there for work purposes. So hence ending freedom of movement as we know it. There may well of course be work arounds for anyone bothered enough to go the long route to obtaining right to work in the UK but it will end the mass migration to work in the UK we have been seeing thank god.
Mobe, the Tories are not bothered about the DUP, they have given them a bung, if they end up hell bent on bringing the government down its no big deal, a General Election is called its not like its a Revolution or anything. For the Tories all this Brexit stuff is what they are focused on, they will take it as far as they can and if they are stopped by the DUP they will see no point in carrying on as they are as its their one key issue they are concerned with so why press on with other matters? The Tories will see a GE as the only way to resolve the matter even if it means a possibility of Labour winning they will at least then have the issue taken off their hands rather than being in limbo land.
Politicians are usually adept at finding solutions to problems these days Mobers I don't think they see it in as black and white terms as you do. I think you'll soon see that it is you that are out of your depth on this one ;) Remoaners lost you have to come to terms with the referendum result.
Aha, a Trench climb-down... There will be freedom of movement - no visas - but a ( possibly) a restriction on employment, you reckon ? ;) Tell that that to the BMW's of this world - sending workers to Cowley or bank staff to the City .. it's falling apart ... Why do you think Farage is 'back' ...he can see all his dreams turning to dust
Thanks for confirming you're clueless about the Political reality ... Without the DUP the legislation to leave the EU will not carry
Sighs, yes leave won - by a small margin - but there was no agreement on the mechanics of leaving - and the end result ... an EEA like status of Norway, complete break, etc.,
Mobe, the companies that wanted to dictate a 'Remain' vote in the referendum no longer hold sway. They tended to be the Tony Blairite wealthy globalised corporations
You have to consider who the government of today now have to consider Mobers. There is no way of them doing a Tony Blair and igoring the wishes of the people and not shutting down this right to work in the UK. They would be mauled in the next GE, the electorate would be entirely disatisfied, a lot of their own party would be objectionable as they would lose their seats and UKIP would be back I'm business. It's 'the' main issue why the population voted for Brexit. Such is May's slim majority in parliament that she will not get it through anyway. Work visa's for EU workers will be in the final deal.
The final leg of the legislation to leave the EU is going through parliament now but it has little to do with the deal being reached. The DUP has agreed to support this legislation as they support Brexit. In any case if Theresa really had to she could aquiese to Corbyn's demands on it and get Labour support. The legislation going through is about being organised in this country on leaving whether deal or no deal. It'S the deal being hashed out at the moment the DUP are concerned about not the EU exit bill. If necessary the government will call mother GE or just leave it to time out of the EU after 2 years which the DUP can do nothing about. In all likelihood none of that will happen as the Tories will look to satisfy the DUP on the issue just as they must satisfy other key groups/issues on how we leave the EU, global corporations for once are not one of those groups.
Blair was hardly socialist Moby, most traditional Labour supporters/voters/sympathiers hate Blair and we're glad to be rid of him when he finally went, me included. Blair is the reason many traditional Labour supporters voted UKIP, me included :)
The Gov lost a lot of seats at the election because they moved off issues on Brexit on which they were strongest and onto undermining their core voters - the elderly because they wanted to fund an elderly persons social care by selling off their home.
Moby the hard brexit of stopping/restricting EU workers working here will be mixed with the soft Brexit of non border checks/customs checks with Ireland and a form off free trade or as near as. It's pointless to argue over this as this is how it will be it's predetermined as it is the only way it can be sorted. The only other way with tariffs is just not on the table at the moment anyway. Essentially May has to please enough in her own party & parliament to get this through. It means sailing a steady course between all the competing demands on this or that. So far enough has been delivered to all competing factions to keep them content. I don't see that changing.
STUPID, uneducated, and gullible people voted UKIP - but thanks for proving my theory
Blair was a socialist, led a Socialist party and simply realised that Thatcher had moved the UK to the right - by making former Council House owners, property owners.
If you / your family were conned by Blair and then became UKIP - you are further confirming just how dumb some of our electorate are ...
Yet these are the dumb idiots who threw away a healthy majority and need the DUP to'run' the country .... May is still having the splinters surgically removed from her arse - having sat on the fence - and it should be clear to those with a clue that she cannot read people / their mood
Flannel - you are dodging my constant point .. you cannot 'restrict' EU freedom of movement when we don't know when folk arrived - if arriving via the R o Ireland..
HOW can you know who is 'legal' ? ))
Mobers, Blair was known in some quarters as a 'pink Tory' some see him more as a social democat, few would see him as socialist.
The Labour party is essentially divided into Blairites and anti-Blairites (Old Labour) amoung other divisions.
The only plus for her is that she has a 5 year mandate do can go to 2022 well after all the EU business if she can keep the DUP on side.
So employers would check right to work on a country as they presently do and many EU citizens would no longer qualify and vice versa. But seeing as far more come to work here than we do abroad we would benefit, less competition for jobs, higher wages, etc :)
You see the genius of leaving the EU Moby, we end up in a better position almost by default and it is this Junker & Tusk do not like as they can do little about it. That is why they both want the UK to rejoin the EU before these benefits become known as they know otherwise they are going to be permently stuck with the situation. Read between the lines Mobers ;)
Yeah, but there's always folk daft enough to believe such bollox
You were too young to remember ( or care) but John Major wanted us to save and start pensions, early ... Blair and Brown - robbed us by taxing our pensions...
Rally, I think you believe anything you read, rather than checking if the person has a clue...
The Tories have always had the further right ( anti-EU) and moderate right ( pro EU) ...and ?
Corbyn took control of an undetectable party and only the stupidity of May's ( you highlighted it ) plan to hit pensioners ( prompted by a farcical volte face) allowed him to do as well as he did.
Corbyn is 'anti-EU' - but sat on the fence and May has proven to be pretty aloof, unable to read ppl, the political climate and absolutely misses how to deal with crises - like the Grenfell Tower fatalities
Once again, proving you don't READ ..She needs 'em and can't deliver a 'hard Brexit' - as they'll just let her govt fall
Now tell me HOW the govt is going to know when an EU citizen arrived ? ....
'Genius' is 'threatening your biggest market for exports' that you will tax their imports )))) ? Like they are so 'scared' ....
Suggest YOU read the newspapers in other nations as they are ALL readiy to profit from our folly
It's no use remoaning Mobers Brexit is going to happen it is a fact, Remoaners lost the referendum so that's that :)
Private pensions are a waste of time[/qyote]
Nice dodge.. They aren't as attractive because of
1/ They income is taxable - thanks to your 'non-socialist' Socialist Blair/Brown teamwork -whose first Budget screwed those actually being PRUDENT..
2/ The 2007 Crash saw pensions performing badly - esp in comparison with property
Once again, you posted like you 'knew' stuff and ended up proving you don't ...
Not knowing when EU nationals have arrived in the country is not a problem. They will just not be able to work here ad their EU pasports they show UK employers will no longer alow that they will have to get a work visa if they qualify. This was the main reason people voted to leave as all the migrants coming here and taking our jobs was causing havoc. So it will be good to see this situation being brought under control or at least calmed down.
:ROFL:
Example: Boris from Bulgaria has never been working in the UK and arrives via Ireland in the post 'brexit'.. How is he any different to Sergei - who came before the cut-off point ? The UK simply don't know if he was here, already or not...Blair and his cronies such as Lord Adonis have tried to overide the will of the electorate by pulling stunts like resigning from their top level posts thinking it will stop Brexit, yeah like they are so important, lol. Fortunately this has only helped purge most of thEM out of government so it has actually helped in the long run :) Old establishment figures like Ken Clarke are now fighting the new establishment on the outside, hilarious.
Clued-up folk would point out to you that Blair's 'help' was and is never required - given his non-trusted status..
Resignig from a role in govt that you cannot hand on heart participate in - like Cameron and Adonis is not only wise, but praiseworthy - not a 'stunt'The Remoaners in the Labour party tried to rest control of the party from Jeremy Corbyn but the old boy proved too much for them ;)
ACTUALLY, the Daily Mail, etc., tried to belittle him and May managed to make him look like a man of the people. He would be a disaster for the UK - if he became PM of a Socialist Party - a leader who really IS anti-EU - at a time when UK PLC needsa sales-person to keep friendsAbroad, the French President is trying to push for us to pay for free trade access, it's a con as we will get thus anyway. [/quote
'Silly boy'.. I foretold Macron would be a major force in French Politics - when the Dail Mail was telling us he got a slap from his old boss for suggesting Le Touquet needed revising..
I suggest you read up on Le Touquet ... He's just extracted another chunk of tax payers money for France to allow the UK border to be on the French side... IF the UK doesn't wake up the anti-EU voters of Dover will find the border controls back on the UK side and the asylum seekers arriving in inflatable boats..... This is all so easy to predict and Macron holds all the cards...May is a lame duck - needing DUP support and Merkel has internal coalition issues - he's the main man of the EU..We would be paying for something they would struggle to avoid giving us the situation with Ireland etc means they have little option other than to give us this access. He also has said he wants the UK to rejoin the EU, why? Because all the top level EU leaders have gotten together behind then scenes and have been talking. Then all know that the UK will leave the EU but still get all the benefits and there is little they can do about this - they have discovered get are holding the losing hand oc cards. If they had the winning hand they would not be saying for the UK to rejoin the EU. It goes far beyond a few jobs going abroad Mobers, that is neither here nor there.
You miss the irony .. We WILL be paying to a club for access to markets we cannot afford to lose and not sitting at the table -making the rules- AND EU folk will STILL be coming and working
Mobe, the Gov will simply issue a right to work to anyone that is here already. Anyone who is not who is a member of the EU after Brexit who hasn't already been given one will be deemed as ineligible and it will be obvious that came here layer than current EU residents. Job sorted.
We will not be paying the EU no more money, another main principle of those of us that voted Leave. Wishful thinking on Macron's part. We have the upper hand not them.
p.s Private & Workplace pensions have always proven themselves to be no good, tax or no tax. Just look at all the companies with shortfalls in ther pension payments, Carrillion, Toys R Us, Tara Steel. Not good for them or us it seems. The current compulsory workplace pension system is already failing. Time we all came together behind the State pension & ban private & workplace pensions outright.
Trench, it is hard responding to someone who won't read - that idea is open to such abuse ..... EU folks could still come, but they're leaving because of
1/ the vote
2/ the GBP is weak - so not worth working here and sending money home
We ARE paying the EU money - now and even if we leave - other LIE - those who voted 'leave' believed
You are like BillyB..when stumped - you try to deflect a fail - by introducing a red herring and going off at a tangent
I remember how we got here : you suggestion that Blair and his policies were akin to Tory policy )))
Best you don't try to tell us about how crooks misuse Pensioner's money - they certainly ain't 'businessmen'
No I think it is you that are trying to put forward Red Herrings then claiming it is me because you are stumped and have lost all arguments.
:ROFL:
Try posting a fact that wasn't EASY to take apart..
I think you are a member here to pass your daily commute because you are bored..
Meanwhile, UKIP are proving they are and were run by idiots and attracted idiot voters
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-42767657 (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-42767657)
Other news, the pound is steadily rising against the dollar its nearly £1.40 ans the Euro nearly £1.14 not near pre-referendum level but shows we are not going into meltdown under the notion of Brexit as some predicted I think
I think
UKIP has always had a problem of cohesion brought about by the fact that most of its members come from either Tories or Labour - so the two clash and are often just united on the issue of Brexit. Now Brexit is almost a full gone conclusion there is more in-fighting than every. UKIP certainly have a posh crowd that has never appealed to me which is why despite my ardent support in recent years toward Brexit I never joined the party as their values were at odds with mine and were just too prominent.
I think Farage has so far proved himself to be the only one who can lead well out of all the leaders UKIP has had and be prominent enough to make an impact.
It is noted that your omitted to note that the GBP now has higher interest rates ..
He had his own agenda (self promotion) ... and has now distanced himself from the loonies and racists that make up the party
So, Trench.. which sector contributes the most to 'UK PLC' and how it it fairing since the referendum? More jobs or less?
'Some American' - who should know better - posted on a forum where factual responses aren't allowed - quoted from a UK equiv of the National Enquirer... the Daily EXpress - suggesting that France might vote to leave the EU. too
Except he didn't say that ... Listening to his whole answer would have spoiled the headline..
The Express also 'left out' ..."He told Marr it was not too late for the UK to change its mind about remaining - describing the 2016 referendum as a "mistake".
"I do respect this vote, I do regret this vote, and I would love to welcome you again," he said.
"It's a mistake when you just ask 'yes' or 'no' when you don't ask people how to improve the situation and explain how to improve it."
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-42757026 (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-42757026)
Meanwhile Mrs May spoke of both sides being committed to the Le Touquet agreement - which given Macron being 'bollocked' by Hollande - his old boss- for saying a UK EU exit could mean its end - seems 'interesting' [the UK 'border' is currently on the French side - to stop those seeking asylum getting to the UK, first..The French get all the hopeful migrants milling around Calais ]
Jeez, we can't have the Express printing facts and scaring their readers with FACTS ...
Mobe, the interest rate is back to the level it was a few months back
Farage is self-promoting himself to what exactly???? I'm a celebrity, get me out of the jungle,
We haven't left the EU yet
:ROFL:
The headline:
UK interest rates rise for first time in 10 years
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-41846330 (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-41846330)
Now go back to my point and try to formulate a VALID riposte..based on FACT ..
'adviser to 'Trampu', a new UK political party ?..
..and the jobs in THE financial sector - THE only one that grew in the hard times that saw other nations economies shrink faster and recover slower - is now losing jobs..to ... the other EU nations..
Stop making 'excuses' ... wake up and admit .. it's a HUGE mistake..
Oh, I forgot ... you can't make a case for leaving - you just quote 'facts' at me ..))
Mobe, your doing a Tony Bliar and skewing the facts.
The first interest rate rise on ten years is a non-event. They should have never been put down in the first place. In any case we are talking of a rise from a quarter to half a percent, hardly shocking. Interest rates had been on half a percent for ages and all was well at that level, it is merely returning it to a level at which all was well.
I don't see Farage going to be an advisor to Trump.
Just accept it Mobe, Brexit is happening and there is nothing you can say on here to stop it :)