The Struggle For Ukraine

[ML]

Ukrainians certainly are not recruiting or using children as soldiers.

In fact, there are far more adult aged men in Ukraine who have volunteered to join, but have been told to wait because there is not enough rifles, etc.  to go around at this point.

No shortage of adult fighters in Ukraine.

[Boethius]

Here rwd. Here’s what your people suggest.

http://mobile.twitter.com/lttimmcmillan/status/1515054046847156236?s=21&t=at0kUBDokns5yllMsPPzJQ

Meanwhile, Putin and his propagandists claim there’s no such thing as a Ukrainian.

[Boethius]

I am fairly skeptical of intercepted calls posted online by Ukrainian officials. On more than one occasion, the accents sound Ukrainian, though they could be from Donetsk. However, the parties in this snippet have been positively identified and named.

Now tell me Russia isn’t committing war crimes.

http://m.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=21&v=-y-H5N3iF_s&feature=emb_logo

[rwd123]

Now tell me Russia isn’t committing war crimes.

ALL militaries commit war crimes and if you think otherwise you have one eye closed.

Did you miss this? Zelensky fan boys are nauseating.

War is hell. BOTH sides are responsible. I want hostilities to end ASAP for the good of the people. This is a war that is likely to either end with a Russian "victory" or nukes. The USA can walk away from Ukraine, Russia won't. Same goes for Taiwan/China. Uncle Sam is happy for others to kill each other while Raytheon, Boeing and others receive a nice pay day.

This is turning into World War 3. Nobody should be cheerleading for greater conflict. I just read Russia has used its long range bombers for the first time (on 14th April). Is the US prepared to step up the firepower to the same degree? It's nuts. A regional disaster is unfolding into a global disaster.

NATO personnel were already working in Ukraine pre-conflict.

[John Gaunt]

Did you miss this? Zelensky fan boys are nauseating.

War is hell. BOTH sides are responsible. I want hostilities to end ASAP for the good of the people. This is a war that is likely to either end with a Russian "victory" or nukes. The USA can walk away from Ukraine, Russia won't. Same goes for Taiwan/China. Uncle Sam is happy for others to kill each other while Raytheon, Boeing and others receive a nice pay day.

This is turning into World War 3. Nobody should be cheerleading for greater conflict. I just read Russia has used its long range bombers for the first time (on 14th April). Is the US prepared to step up the firepower to the same degree? It's nuts. A regional disaster is unfolding into a global disaster.

NATO personnel were already working in Ukraine pre-conflict.

Nope. Only one side is responsible and their colours aren’t yellow and blue.
For someone who wants the conflict to stop you sure are a cheerleader for the wrong side.
 

[Nightwish]

Nope. Only one side is responsible and their colours aren’t yellow and blue.
For someone who wants the conflict to stop you sure are a cheerleader for the wrong side.
 

rwd is trying to hide his support for the orcs, but I have to say it is badly done, so just stop pretending putinlover.

THIS is the Orcs, if anyone still believes this is Putins war, no this is Russia in its essence.



I have been listening for two almost three hours to two journalists from Ukraine who works with helping collecting and documenting evidence of war crimes in north Kyiv and the famous suburbs, intervju residents and taking pictures.
I feel sick to my stomach now and I don't know if I will be able to get these mental images out of my head for a long time, what we have seen on TV and social media, it's the tip of the iceberg.

[Boethius]

Did you miss this? Zelensky fan boys are nauseating.

War is hell. BOTH sides are responsible. I want hostilities to end ASAP for the good of the people. This is a war that is likely to either end with a Russian "victory" or nukes. The USA can walk away from Ukraine, Russia won't. Same goes for Taiwan/China. Uncle Sam is happy for others to kill each other while Raytheon, Boeing and others receive a nice pay day.

This is turning into World War 3. Nobody should be cheerleading for greater conflict. I just read Russia has used its long range bombers for the first time (on 14th April). Is the US prepared to step up the firepower to the same degree? It's nuts. A regional disaster is unfolding into a global disaster.

NATO personnel were already working in Ukraine pre-conflict.

Both sides are not responsible.  Ukraine did not invade Russia.  Russia invaded Ukraine.  Boeing, Raytheon, etc., would not have received any "pay day" if V. Putin had not decided to invade a sovereign nation.  Is this really so difficult to comprehend?

[Trenchcoat]

It would be REALLY stoopid of master strategist Vlad Pootin, to just repeat the strategy of the first failed assault and expect a different outcome this time…

one of the missing elements of this war has been Russian air power
if it were the USA doing this, before a single ground unit moved, there would’ve been a MASSIVE air assault, THEN the ground assault….

there’s no surprise element involved here now, Ukrainians know what’s coming and where
so it’s not like he doesn’t want to “telegraph” his plans

Pootin has hundreds of the OLD TU-95s, that fly above the range of western supplied shoulder-launched missiles and these can carpet bomb Ukrainian positions in front of him

he has the MOAB, Mother Of ALL Bombs, a giant thermobaric bomb that has a 400 meter kill radius

after studying the response of the USA in regards to poison gas in Syria, I’m sure he realizes that if he uses gas in areas where samples can’t be sent to the west, there won’t really be much of a response

personally, I don’t think there are ANY red lines in Ukraine drawn by NATO
they are happy just to sit back and let Ukrainians do the dirty work without risk to themselves
this pretty much gives Pooty Poot carte blanche
he has too much to lose to use restraint
so this time, the gloves come off and it’s gonna be a dirty fight

Indeed Krim, I was really astonished that Pootin didn't hammer Ukrainian forces with Airpower as a first act before the first tank even rolled over the border. I expected him to hit all Ukrainian Airfields, Oil refineries & depots, supply points, and non nuclear power plants and especially any Ukrainian ground troops he could get at least through planes and missiles. Even if it meant losing many planes I expected him to do that just to knock out any Ukrainian air power, even if it meant flying planes into western Ukraine and ditching them due to not having enough fuel to get back if that were the case.

I also expected Pootin to attack all of Ukraine in one go, to attack down towards Lviv to cut off land border supply routes, etc. To attack out off the eastern edge of Moldova even if it meant just stationing poor quality troops there to garrison that region. He missed trying to encircle Odessa and cutting off land routes along the Moldova border, etc.

The whole operation had the hallmarks of being a complete balls up. It looks like master strategist Pootin took control and did a Hitler, didn't listen to sound military advice and decided he knew better, did it his way and fluffed the whole thing up. Had he done it how we thought it would go down I think Ukrainians would have been feeling the pinch a lot more then they have been so they have been lucky that master strategist Pootin decided to take control of strategy in order to satisfy his ego I think.

[SteveInBoston]

Did you miss this? Zelensky fan boys are nauseating.

rwd, are you Ukrainian?

[2tallbill]

Note: If I post something here, do not assume that I agree with things in the report.
I posted links so that you can read it in it's entirety and make up your own mind. I
advise reading from several different sources.


Russian state TV declares World War Three has started after sinking of Moskva
"Olga Skabeyeva, one of Vladimir Putin’s leading propagandists, told viewers Western
support for Ukraine amounted to direct conflict with Russia, saying:
‘What it’s escalated into can safely be called World War Three.
That’s entirely for sure."
http://metro.co.uk/2022/04/15/ukraine-russian-state-tv-warns-world-war-three-has-already-begun-16472787/


Maybe they should have thought of this during the Korean and
Vietnam wars?
Russia warns U.S. against further arming Ukraine
http://www.cbsnews.com/news/russia-warns-us-arming-ukraine/


Words mean things unless you are on the far left.
Zelenskiy reportedly asks Biden to name Russia a state sponsor of terrorism
http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/live/2022/apr/15/joe-biden-russia-ukraine-putin-us-politics-live-latest


Putin’s Ukraine Gamble Pivots to a Very Different Battlefield
http://dnyuz.com/2022/04/16/putins-ukraine-gamble-pivots-to-a-very-different-battlefield/

[rwd123]

Both sides are not responsible.  Ukraine did not invade Russia.  Russia invaded Ukraine.  Boeing, Raytheon, etc., would not have received any "pay day" if V. Putin had not decided to invade a sovereign nation.  Is this really so difficult to comprehend?

Is is really so difficult to comprehend that the Ukrainian government:

• Had official policy to retake Crimea by force;
• Wanted to officially join NATO (and was already de facto NATO given the level of support);
• Stated that it was considering acquiring nuclear weapons and delivery systems; and
  
• According to the Russian government was planning a major offensive in Donbass.

Let's change the situation while somewhat keeping the context. Iran decides to create official government policy to retake Palestinian territories by force, wants to join a Arab military alliance, develop nuclear weapons with related delivery systems, and had plans to launch an offensive. Do you think Israel would stand by and do nothing?

I am not advocating Russia's actions but can view their perspective. Similarly, I can view the Azov perspective but not be an advocate of their actions. I advocate for de-escalation and negotiated peace, but the Zelensky regime will not negotiate only surrender... at the cost of how many lives?

It amazes me the lack of pragmatism of those in power. I can understand they are out of touch with the plight of the common man but the sheer ignorance of their actions is incredible. If not for Biden the Europeans would take gold, silver and bronze for incompetence.

In other news -

• Another dead American mercenary, a bunch of Georgians as well.
• Another British national taken as a prisoner of war.
• Medvedchuk's wife calling for a prisoner swap of British with her husband.
• CNN reporting American officials are worried about ammo running low in the Ukrainian army (currently no working refineries in Ukraine).
• Mariupol cleared with the exception of the Azovstal plant.

A friendly community announcement, if you resort to school yard name calling I make a note of your username and ignore all of your posts. If you can't have an adult conversation then go outside and play.

Sadly I think we may be past the point of de-escalation. It's either a global Cold War 2 or World War 3 at this point.

[Boethius]

Is is really so difficult to comprehend that the Ukrainian government:
Had official policy to retake Crimea by force;

Did they implement that policy?  Were there skirmishes on any part of the border with Crimea?   Was it a threat to Russia?  ::crickets::

I have relatives who, up until early February, crossed that border frequently.  The first time you cross, on either side, is an arduous process, with searches of all bags.  After that, it's easy and quick, every time.

Wanted to officially join NATO (and was already de facto NATO given the level of support);

So what?  Is Ukraine, as a sovereign nation, not entitled to join whatever military organization it wishes?

NATO, incidentally, is a defensive organization. 

Stated that it was considering acquiring nuclear weapons and delivery systems

As well it should, given its neighbourhood.  There would be no invasion today if Ukraine hadn't given up its nukes in the past, with guarantees of security, breached by everyone.

According to the Russian government was planning a major offensive in Donbass.

You mean the same Russian government that claims:

1.  The Moskva was destroyed in a storm?
2.  It hasn't invaded Ukraine?
3.  That Ukraine trained migratory birds to carry bioweapons?
4.  That they hadn't bombed hospitals, apartment buildings, and other civilian targets?

I could go on.

Let's change the situation while somewhat keeping the context. Iran decides to create official government policy to retake Palestinian territories by force, wants to join a Arab military alliance, develop nuclear weapons with related delivery systems, and had plans to launch an offensive. Do you think Israel would stand by and do nothing?

Iran would never help the Palestinians, who are Sunni Muslims.  The additional flaw in your analogy is that Ukraine is an INDEPENDENT SOVEREIGN NATION.  It, and it alone, gets to decide what happens on Ukrainian territory.  Let's turn this around.  What if Ukraine, with thousands of US missiles and unlimited military hardware, decided to launch an offensive on Russian soil - bomb Moscow to oblivion, send tanks and troops to the heart of Russia, rape women and children, shoot civilians indiscriminately.  Would that be justified?

I am not advocating Russia's actions but can view their perspective. Similarly, I can view the Azov perspective but not be an advocate of their actions. I advocate for de-escalation and negotiated peace, but the Zelensky regime will not negotiate only surrender... at the cost of how many lives?

No, the Ukrainians have said all along they are willing to negotiate a peace. (What their terms are, I don't know, beyond what they disclose publicly.)  Russia has openly stated it won't negotiate until "its objectives are met".

The reality is that the so called People's Republic of Donbas is run by thugs who abuse the local population.  I personally can live with that, if that population wants to be run by abusive thugs.  I can live with Crimea deciding it wishes to join with Russia.  It's rewarding an illegal act, but so be it.  What I cannot accept is an invasion by a foreign entity which has declared that my ethnicity does not exist, and needs to be wiped from the face of the earth.  My grandmother was a Ukrainian long before Putin was born and I will be a member of the Ukrainian diaspora after that dog is dead.  He can't change that fact. 

It amazes me the lack of pragmatism of those in power. I can understand they are out of touch with the plight of the common man but the sheer ignorance of their actions is incredible. If not for Biden the Europeans would take gold, silver and bronze for incompetence.

The Brits have been outstanding for Ukraine.  I agree, with respect to the Germans, French, and Hungarians.  The Poles also have been stellar.

In other news -

Another dead American mercenary, a bunch of Georgians as well
Another British national taken as a prisoner of war
Medvedchuk's wife calling for a prisoner swap of British with her husband.
CNN reporting American officials are worried about ammo running low in the Ukrainian army (currently no working refineries in Ukraine).Mariupol cleared with the exception of the Azovstal plant.

An American who volunteers to fight is not a mercenary.  Mercenaries are paid to fight.

Medvedchuk's cunt of a wife can shove her "recommendations".

Sadly I think we may be past the point of de-escalation. It's either a global Cold War 2 or World War 3 at this point

Deescalation can only occur with increased Russian losses.  They need to feel a lot of pain to come back to the negotiating table.  That, or Putin needs to die.

[rwd123]

NATO, incidentally, is a defensive organization.

Gaddafi disagrees.

Iran would never help the Palestinians, who are Sunni Muslims.

The point is Israel won't and doesn't accept serious security risks.

What if Ukraine, with thousands of US missiles, decided to launch an offensive on Russian soil

I don't pick fights with men who are much stronger than me.

No, the Ukrainians have said all along they are willing to negotiate a peace.

Denis Kireyev disagrees. Any potential progress made in Turkey was reverted once the Americans poked their nose in. Blinken has stated the conflict will go on for the rest of the year. The US want a protracted conflict and the Zelensky regime will comply.

The reality is that the so called People's Republic of Donbas is run by thugs who abuse the local population.

I agree.

What I cannot accept is an invasion by a foreign entity who has declared that my ethnicity does not exist.

I don't agree with that either. I find it baffling.

The Brits have been outstanding for Ukraine.

They're hopeless though. The Foreign Secretary made statements leading to the Russian putting their nukes on high alert, the Defence Minister leaked state secrets to prank callers, the Prime Minister is a buffoon, they can't keep supplying arms as they're running out. Rule, Britannia!

[Boethius]

Gaddafi disagrees.

That was a UN resolution they were enforcing.

The point is Israel won't and doesn't accept serious security risks.

Russia was not facing security risks.

I don't pick fights with men who are much stronger than me.

Which is why I noted with unlimited US equipment.  You have seemingly justified an invasion, and the rape and murder of civilians, for no fathomable reason.  As I posted previously (with a link), you know how many civilians died in Donbas in 2021 (according to their sources)?  Seven.  You know how many died in Crimea?  Zero.

Denis Kireyev disagrees. Any potential progress made in Turkey was reverted once the Americans poked their nose in. Blinken has stated the conflict will go on for the rest of the year. The US want a protracted conflict and the Zelensky regime will comply.

Yet again, not a neutral source, and he's dead now, shot by someone as it is alleged he was a Russian spy.  So he can't agree to anything now.  You have a strong streak of anti Americanism. 

I don't believe the US wants a protracted conflict.  I think they would have been happy had there been no invasion, which is why they (quite brilliantly), publicly announced their intelligence information in January and February.

I don't agree with that either. I find it baffling.

Because you don't know Ukrainian history.  This is a constant in our narrative.  To a Ukrainian who knows his/her history, it's nothing new.  That's partly why, I suspect, there is some intransigence in the negotiations. 

They're hopeless though. The Foreign Secretary made statements leading to the Russian putting their nukes on high alert, the Defence Minister leaked state secrets to prank callers, the Prime Minister is a buffoon, they can't keep supplying arms as they're running out. Rule, Britannia!

I disagree.

[Patagonie]

Ukrainians certainly are not recruiting or using children as soldiers.

In fact, there are far more adult aged men in Ukraine who have volunteered to join, but have been told to wait because there is not enough rifles, etc.  to go around at this point.

No shortage of adult fighters in Ukraine.

+1
The boss of the DNR (Strelkov) has publically criticized the President of the Russian Federation for NOT asking for a general mobilization.The problem with the DNR and LNR is that they don't have enough fighters.
Since 2014 people recruited as fighters in the DNR/LNR were called the 25000. They liked to come to get their paycheck but their willingness to fight is very low. 
Without the regular or elite Russian forces, they cannot retrieve an inch and I don't talk about all the weapons provided by Moscow.
Additionally, when the Russian Federation is accounting for the losses LNR/DNR is not on the sheet. Moscou doesn't give a shit about their losses and even less about what happens in the DNR/LNR. That's quite curious because they consider these people as "Russian blood". And they are the very primary reason for the wars (2) since 2014, isn't it?

[Patagonie]

The ol' goat clearly hasn't lost his marbles like Biden.

Once the Russians take out the Ukrainian forces in the east (~50,000) they will march toward Transnistria and lay siege to Odessa. They'll keep it largely in tact like the Germans did with Leningrad - it is a prize. Complete control the southern front and supply lines.

Then all it will take is forces from Belarus to cut off supply lines in the west and it's goodnight nurse. I've heard Zhytomyr but they may go as far as Lviv. No need to assault Kyiv. If it's true that the Russian troop movements in the Kyiv region were to split/reduce troops in the east then that was a masterly move.

The Russian economy will contract but that will happen globally. Most of Asia, which includes the Middle East will continue to trade with Russia (as will large parts of Africa and Latin America). The world will become divided again. The difference however is that the east have the ongoing economic (and military) power over the west, which was the opposite of the Cold War. Europe's financial state is far more precarious than what most people realize.

Oh and in other news - a British soldier captured, an American one killed by Chechen forces, and allegedly an American General has been captured too (I saw video of FSB agents but the man's face was blurred). Pat - how many Frenchmen are holding out in Mariupol...?

It's impossible to know but surely very view because Mariupol was the most difficult place to go from the very beginning.
 
NB: Russian Federation moving from Belarus : NO. 
1/ They tried they were repelled
2/ Their forces when their attack on Kiev happened came from the very Eastern part of Belarus
3/ Belarus is NOT safe so if you attack from the North of Lviv you are very deep in Belarus and can be cut from your depots very easily.  Their supply lines from Russia through Gomel were already a nightmare, so now add 450 km...

[John Gaunt]

Did they implement that policy?  Were there skirmishes on any part of the border with Crimea?   Was it a threat to Russia?  ::crickets::

I have relatives who, up until early February, crossed that border frequently.  The first time you cross, on either side, is an arduous process, with searches of all bags.  After that, it's easy and quick, every time.

So what?  Is Ukraine, as a sovereign nation, not entitled to join whatever military organization it wishes?

NATO, incidentally, is a defensive organization. 

As well it should, given its neighbourhood.  There would be no invasion today if Ukraine hadn't given up its nukes in the past, with guarantees of security, breached by everyone.
You mean the same Russian government that claims:

1.  The Moskva was destroyed in a storm?
2.  It hasn't invaded Ukraine?
3.  That Ukraine trained migratory birds to carry bioweapons?
4.  That they hadn't bombed hospitals, apartment buildings, and other civilian targets?

I could go on.
Iran would never help the Palestinians, who are Sunni Muslims.  The additional flaw in your analogy is that Ukraine is an INDEPENDENT SOVEREIGN NATION.  It, and it alone, gets to decide what happens on Ukrainian territory.  Let's turn this around.  What if Ukraine, with thousands of US missiles and unlimited military hardware, decided to launch an offensive on Russian soil - bomb Moscow to oblivion, send tanks and troops to the heart of Russia, rape women and children, shoot civilians indiscriminately.  Would that be justified?

No, the Ukrainians have said all along they are willing to negotiate a peace. (What their terms are, I don't know, beyond what they disclose publicly.)  Russia has openly stated it won't negotiate until "its objectives are met".

The reality is that the so called People's Republic of Donbas is run by thugs who abuse the local population.  I personally can live with that, if that population wants to be run by abusive thugs.  I can live with Crimea deciding it wishes to join with Russia.  It's rewarding an illegal act, but so be it.  What I cannot accept is an invasion by a foreign entity which has declared that my ethnicity does not exist, and needs to be wiped from the face of the earth.  My grandmother was a Ukrainian long before Putin was born and I will be a member of the Ukrainian diaspora after that dog is dead.  He can't change that fact. 

The Brits have been outstanding for Ukraine.  I agree, with respect to the Germans, French, and Hungarians.  The Poles also have been stellar.
An American who volunteers to fight is not a mercenary.  Mercenaries are paid to fight.

Medvedchuk's cunt of a wife can shove her "recommendations".

Deescalation can only occur with increased Russian losses.  They need to feel a lot of pain to come back to the negotiating table.  That, or Putin needs to die.

You nailed it to a T, Bo.
Yet the same excuses and responses get trotted out time after time, as if repetition will somehow make them true.

[Chelseaboy]

Serving British Special Forces now have boots on the ground in Ukraine...they've been training two Battalions of Ukrainian troops in the Kyiv region these last two weeks.


Ukrainian troops will be coming to Britain this week to learn how to use the Armoured Vehicles we're supplying them with.


This is from the Sunday Times.


In other news the Orcs have managed to get another of their Generals killed in Ukraine.


Major General Vladimir Frolov Deputy Commander of the 8th Army was killed in Mariupol and that makes eight Orc Generals killed in Ukraine....and counting.

[krimster2]

" Moscou doesn't give a shit about their losses and even less about what happens in the DNR/LNR."

does anyone ACTUALLY BELIEVE that KaPootin is killing Russians in order to save Russians?
and not just in DNR/LNR, the majority of the inhabitants of Eastern Ukraine that he's bombing are Russian speakers
and just like in Grozny most of the civilians killed were ethnic Russians
so CLEARLY this is NOT ABOUT SAVING RUSSIAN SPEAKERS
it's about REAL ESTATE

[Boethius]

The Russians have been bombing food distribution centres, supermarkets, and food silos. History repeating itself, with Moscow deciding Ukrainians, living in the breadbasket of Europe, should starve.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10726901/Families-starving-Russian-troops-stopped-Ukrainian-aid-reaching-village.html

rwd, where’s the mirrored Ukrainian action? 

[ML]

USA is sending 18 155MM Howitzers to Ukraine along with 40,000 artillery rounds.

I read that these have a top range of around 14 miles.

But I also read Russia has artillery with range of 30-40 miles.

So won't the 14 milers be outgunned ??

[ML]

Wife read that USA is sending surface water type drones to Ukraine for use in Black Sea.  They attack ships and other watercraft.

Speculation was USA wants them tested out in Ukraine as it is felt they will be needed when China attacks Taiwan.

Anyone hear of this ?

[krimster2]

"Anyone hear of this ?"

yes, it's true...

the 155mm howitzers won't be used for artillery duels, more like massed infantry and light armor

Germany is supplying Panzer 2000s which are pure AWESOME!

[Bee Farmer]

USA is sending 18 155MM Howitzers to Ukraine along with 40,000 artillery rounds.

I read that these have a top range of around 14 miles.

But I also read Russia has artillery with range of 30-40 miles.

So won't the 14 milers be outgunned ??

Apples to oranges.

40 miles is a stretch.  The 2S7 is Russia's big artillery gun.  It has a range of 23 miles.  If they use rocket assisted shells, it can hit 30 miles.

The 2S7 is a siege gun, not an infantry gun.  It's a good gun if you are shooting at something that never moves (like a fortified city) and you have all the time in the world. 

It is mounted on a T-80 tank carriage, the heaviest tank Russia has.  It is really heavy, and easily gets stuck in mud.  It's also slow.  It also has a bulldozer blade mounted on the back of it, so it can dig out a firing position before firing.  The recoil is so bad, it has to be dug in before it can fire.

It shoots a 225 pound shell.  It can fire 2 rounds per minute.  The only problem is, the shells are so large, the 2S7 can only hold 4 rounds.  It has to have support trucks hauling the ammo for it.  (And we know how good Russian logistics and support vehicles have been doing.)  After it fires, you have to unload shells by hand from the trucks, and load them into the 2S7.

It's also really, really f'ing loud.  The crew ends up deaf really quick.  The crews using it don't want to have to fire it if they don't have to.

The 155 can fire bursts of 4 rounds per minute, but can sustain 40 rounds per hour.
It can be towed behind a truck.  You can stop, spread the legs, fire a few rounds, hook it back up to the truck and move a mile down the road, and do it over again.

So yes, if you have a 155 with a 10 mile range, and the other guy has a 203 with a 23 mile range, and if the 203 knows where you are precisely, and if you hold still, the 203 can hit you before you can get in range.  But if the 203 doesn't know where you are, or if you are a moving target, or if the 203 doesn't hit you on their first shot or two, then the 203's 23 mile range doesn't do it much good.

Ukraine also has some 2S7 203mm artillery pieces.

[krimster2]

fuhgettabout all them big canons
whatcha want is a laser gun dawg!!
this here is muh water cooled 200 watt diode array laser
I can start fires miles away or damage tank or drone optics
and blind snipers instantly
then put it in my backpack and walk away until next time I use it
laser head - battery pack and voltage converter, water pump and 4 liter resovoir
sweet!