Paul Manafort- Destroyer of Ukrainian Democracy

[BillyB]

1. The term 'money laundering' is normally reserved for funds that were acquired illegally.  He implied that the term is now being used as an inflammatory term toward Manaford when there is no evidence in the indictment that suggests that the money was illegally obtained.

Count ten against Manafort and Gates was they acted as agents of a foreign principal without registering with the Attorney General that is required by law.


They were working illegally so they were making money illegally.


People are going to speculate what all this means but the twelve indictments were approved not only by Mueller, but by a grand jury consisting of American citizens. If that jury approved it, the next jury will most likely hear the same thing and rule Manafort and Gates guilty of the charges.

[JayH]

Count ten against Manafort and Gates was they acted as agents of a foreign principal without registering with the Attorney General that is required by law.


They were working illegally so they were making money illegally.


People are going to speculate what all this means but the twelve indictments were approved not only by Mueller, but by a grand jury consisting of American citizens. If that jury approved it, the next jury will most likely hear the same thing and rule Manafort and Gates guilty of the charges.

Further -- they did attempt to disguise what  by definition was income as loans  ie washing it ! = money laundering

[Boethius]

http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/index.php?topic=21092.msg470502#msg470502

Look at how globally English is spoken.  That predates the US, and is mostly due to the UK colonizing the world.

I personally think Her Majesty works very hard.  I've seen her schedule! 

Trump  had zero to do with Brexit.

[Boethius]

This is how the money laundering is described -


http://theintercept.com/2017/10/30/paul-manafort-money-laundering-scheme-was-identified-months-ago/

[JayH]

Some will find it ironic that Manafort did all of this while coaching candidate Donald Trump to run an “anti-elite” election campaign, one directed at “draining the swamp” and cleaning up Washington. But in fact, this is exactly the kind of tactic that Manafort perfected on behalf of Russia, in Ukraine, where he worked for more than a decade.


Did Russia teach Paul Manafort all its dirty tricks?

All of this experience came in handy in 2016. The exploitation of ethnic tension; the dislike of NATO; the constant talk of opponents’ corruption, whether warranted or not; the shouting about falsified elections — these were Trump tactics, too. Several other things about Yanukovych — who was eventually chased out of his own country — stand as a warning. He was an “anti-elite” candidate who proved far more corrupt than the existing elite. He used his public office for private gain. And he sought to undermine Ukraine’s constitution, first subtly and then openly.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/global-opinions/russia-taught-paul-manafort-all-his-dirty-tricks/2017/10/30/95887e82-bdb7-11e7-959c-fe2b598d8c00_story.html?hpid=hp_no-name_opinion-card-a%3Ahomepage%2Fstory&utm_term=.a929a7789d0f

[BillyB]

After Manafort got indicted, Podesta resigned from his lobbying firm to prepare for his legal fight alone. He helped Manafort promote Yanukovych but that isn't a crime. This investigation has now spread to the liberals. Hopefully the Clinton Foundation gets looked at.


http://www.nytimes.com/2017/10/30/us/politics/tony-podesta-resignation-lobbying.html

[fathertime]

You need to listen to a different radio station.
Fundamentally -- that "college professor" is wrong . Seeking to use semantics to make ends meet an incorrect conclusion.
Even by  your own knowledge -- you do know these funds were not legally obtained. They are and have been to subject of legal action in Ukraine.
You spend time complaining about media bias -- clearly "your" radio station has trotted out a talking head to support some narrative they want to meet. The Trump media is in high gear to divert discussion and facts at this time .

Talk radio here in Southern California where Calmissile is listening is extremely conservative.  It is almost comedic how one sided the hosts are.  When I was younger and more impressionable I bought their bologna, now when I listen I see it has raw sewage laden with half truths designed to rile up their base.

Fathertime! 

[ML]

  There must surely be other American Presidents who have also done this in the past.

Only Herbert Hoover.

[JayH]

  A summary of Manafort in Ukraine


HERE’S WHY UKRAINE PAID MANAFORT INSANE AMOUNTS OF MONEY
“Here’s the guy whose team tried to steal the election, and they failed,” Herbst said. “So then Manafort appeared and presented himself to me, saying he was going to help Yanukovych win the old-fashioned way, by out-organizing the opposition.”


http://news.vice.com/story/heres-why-ukraine-paid-manafort-insane-amounts-of-money

[JayH]

In other threads I have commented on the current relevance  & links  of events in Ukraine and the US. The very specific issue is Russia -- and it's attempts to interfere and control events in Ukraine and the US. As this article discusses -- Manafort is a centrepiece. In particular --never overlook the fact that at the GOP conference that endorsed Trump as candidate -the Trump campaign's only input to Republican policy was to REMOVE the section of approval of arming Ukraine -- which was in only Russia's interest !
 
The investigation, conducted by US Justice Department special counsel Robert Mueller, has revealed that millions of dollars flowed from the former Ukrainian government to Manafort. The head of that government, Yanukovych, is wanted in Ukraine in connection with over 100 murders during the Euromaidan protests in 2014.

How Manafort Brought The Worst Practices From Ukraine To America

What new things have we found out? What is most significant about the whole story with the Manafort arrest and Mueller investigation?

Robert Mueller has been systematically trying to build a case against that gets to the center about whatever the scandal is about Russian influence, Russian collusion with the Trump campaign in this last election. And so, we see that he has gone for the central figure in the campaign, which was Paul Manafort, who was in charge of the campaign for five extremely important months. The indictment that he filed against Manafort isn't about the election, it's not about the campaign, it's about Manafort's involvement in Ukraine essentially, and about the money he received for his work for the Party of Regions and for other interests in Ukraine, and the way in which it was illegally laundered into the United States. And so, he's attacked Manafort. He's shown that Manafort himself is extremely vulnerable to prosecution, and the question is: where does this lead? How is he able to use this information, to use this devastating indictment of Manafort, in order to get more information that gets us closer to the center of the narrative of the election.

http://en.hromadske.ua/posts/why-the-manafort-case-is-more-about-ukraine-than-trump

[JayH]

This is only the known trips


Manafort took 18 trips to Moscow during work in Ukraine:

The longtime Republican operative has said that his work was about moving Ukraine closer to Europe, but flight records reported by McClatchy Thursday show that he visited the Russian capital regularly from 2005 to 2011. Read also Paul Manafort offers $12 mln in assets to avoid house arrest - CBS News His spokesman Jason Maloni told the news service that the trips, most of which were made in the first two years of that period, were for work with Russian oligarch Oleg Deripaska and denied any collusion with Russia to swing the 2016 election toward Trump.

l

Read more on UNIAN: http://www.unian.info/world/2260431-manafort-took-18-trips-to-moscow-during-work-in-ukraine-report.html

[Boethius]

The Atlantic has a piece on Manafort's downfall.  The journalist, Franklin Foer, was recently interviewed by NPR.  From NPR:

in Ukraine, he'd helped exacerbate a division between Russian speakers in the eastern part of the country and Ukrainian speakers in the western part of the country. And he'd played on this long-standing sense of victimization that the Russian speakers felt. And he just went where the polls showed him to go, which was to try to find ways to drive a wedge between those two different groups.

Links to the NPR interview and The Atlantic pieces -

http://www.npr.org/2018/01/29/581478324/paul-manafort-joined-the-trump-campaign-in-a-state-of-despair-and-desperation

http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2018/03/paul-manafort-american-hustler/550925/

[Brasscasing]

Franklin Foer (/ˈfɔːr/; born July 20, 1974) is a staff writer at The Atlantic and former editor of The New Republic, commentating on contemporary issues from a liberal perspective.[1][2]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Franklin_Foer

Brass

[Boethius]

Read his piece. 

Paul Manafort deliberately fomented discord in Ukraine, which ultimately lead to war.  He did so for his personal gain rather than any noble reason.  You must really despise Ukrainians to defend someone who was instrumental in attempting to dismantle Ukrainians' democratic rights.

[Brasscasing]

Read his piece. 

Paul Manafort deliberately fomented discord in Ukraine, which ultimately lead to war.  He did so for his personal gain rather than any noble reason.  You must really despise Ukrainians to defend someone who was instrumental in attempting to dismantle Ukrainians' democratic rights.

The article is rehashed malicious fiction written to titillate the uninformed.

Foer's intent is not to communicate fact or the truth but supply 'comfort food' for liberal consumption. Enjoy.

Brass 

[Boethius]

A lot of what is written about Ukraine has been confirmed via hacking by Ukrainians and in documents Yanukovych, in his haste to flee, left behind.  The documents were found by independent journalists, not politicians with an axe to grind, and are probably still online somewhere.  So no, it is not a "political hit job" as far as Ukraine is concerned.

Manafort devised a campaign that created grievances that did not exist, leading, ultimately, to the deaths of 10,000 Ukrainians. 

You are defending a man who advanced the interest of Mobutu and worse, Savimbi, whose army was known to take sex slaves and kill children, and one who used stolen Ukrainian blood money to fund his mistress' $40,000 a month lifestyle.

So go ahead and defend this prince of a human being.  After all, you're not interested in truth, so why bother commenting otherwise?

[Brasscasing]

A lot of what is written about Ukraine has been confirmed via hacking by Ukrainians and in documents Yanukovych, in his haste to flee, left behind.  The documents were found by independent journalists, not politicians with an axe to grind, and are probably still online somewhere.  So no, it is not a "political hit job" as far as Ukraine is concerned.

Manafort devised a campaign that created grievances that did not exist, leading to the deaths of 10,000 Ukrainians. 

You are defending a man who advanced the interest of Mobutu, whose army was known to take sex slaves, and one who used Ukrainian blood money to fund his mistress' $40,000 a month lifestyle.

But you're not interested in truth, so why bother commenting?

...Anyone who's read this topic might well be asking you the same question.

This is just your latest sadly misinformed attempt at smearing Manafort.  At the end of the day it's no more fact based, accurate or successful than your previous efforts over the last nine pages.

All that's happened here is you came across another rehashed liberal slanted attack article confirming your own bias and got excited about it. Do try and contain yourself.

Brass

[Boethius]

Did Manafort represent Savimbi?

Did Manafort devise a campaign that inflamed ethnic divisions that previously were almost zero in Ukraine?

Did Manafort take millions that had been stolen from the Ukrainian populace?

Did Manafort have a mistress with a Manhattan apartment, house in the Hamptons, and unlimited AmEx?

The answer to all of the above is yes. So is the fact you defend this lowlife. 

[Brasscasing]

I have no intention of further indulging your frenzied Manafort obsession. The link I posted is explanation enough.

Anyone who cares to can peruse these last nine page and judge the validity or fallaciousness of your aspersions for themselves.

Brass

[Boethius]

So in other words, you cannot defend his work for child murderers, rapists, his complicity in raiding the Ukrainian treasury, his work in fomenting ethnic divisions leading to war in Ukraine, or screwing around on his wife with a woman half his age, all independently verified, because you don’t like the reporter in but one report. Great values you exhibit.

[Brasscasing]

So in other words, you cannot defend his work for child murderers, rapists, his complicity in raiding the Ukrainian treasury, his work in fomenting ethnic divisions leading to war in Ukraine, or screwing around on his wife with a woman half his age, all independently verified, because you don’t like the reporter in but one report. Great values you exhibit.

...Already thoroughly debunked over the last nine pages. Anyone can read it for themselves.

Brass

[Boethius]

You have debunked zero.

[JayH]

Where  is my post -it was here earlier  ?

Brass -- you have on numerous occasions removed my posts -- complying posts that you decided --YOU DECIDED to kill.
As a moderator      and a participant in a thread --it is not appropriate  that you then delete a legitimate post because it was ridiculing your posts  -- I might add -- it highlighted the belligerence in your posts.

On a previous occasion ( more than one actually) your undisciplined behaviour as a mod led to your permanent removal from moderating and the target then was the same as today  --where once again--you acted because it unpicked you in the simplest way !

Once again --it it now time for you to relinquish and modding role whatsoever.

[Boethius]

In reading this page, Jay, I don’t think Manafort exploited ethnic tension, as you stated above.  I think he created it. Think back to 2006. There was virtually no ethnic tension in Ukraine.

[Anotherkiwi]

I have no intention of further indulging your frenzied Manafort obsession. The link I posted is explanation enough.

What link are you talking about?  If you mean the one to the Wikipedia page of Franklin Foer, it doesn't mean or explain anything.  If you want people to give credence to your views, you need to do a lot more than post a link to something without any explanation.

Anyone who cares to can peruse these last nine page and judge the validity or fallaciousness of your aspersions for themselves.

Which the rational members here have done.