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Author Topic: Ukraine going too far ?  (Read 1449 times)

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Online msmob

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Ukraine going too far ?
« on: May 19, 2017, 12:25:55 AM »
Following on from the St Georges Ribbon ban , Ukraine has ( apparently ) geo-blocked  many RU based Social media and mail based sites.  ( OK, VK, mail.ru - I do not know the extent of the list )

I say apparently, as I haven't heard the news myself ... just heard it discussed

Whilst I fully get WHY Ukraine is fed up with Kremlin interference - this a HUGE mistake

1/ The Kremlin trolls were celebrating the non-presence of many of the Ukrainians who could put their case on RU based social networks

2/ Losing access to one's email - possibly contacts and photos - with no notice - hardly fair or wise

3/ We know PLENTY of Ukrainian citizens living in RU with relatives in UA who use OK, VK, etc., to keep in touch  ...Why penalise them ?

4/ Geo-blocking is not hard to circumvent with VPNs





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Offline Boethius

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Re: Ukraine going too far ?
« Reply #1 on: May 19, 2017, 12:46:03 AM »
From what I've read, the blocks were to stop Russian hacking of Ukrainian government and business sites.
"Without religion there is no morality, and without morality there is no law." - Lord Denning

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Re: Ukraine going too far ?
« Reply #2 on: May 19, 2017, 12:54:41 AM »
From what I've read, the blocks were to stop Russian hacking of Ukrainian government and business sites.

A bit more info ...
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/may/16/ukraine-blocks-popular-russian-websites-kremlin-role-war

"Ukraine blocks popular social networks as part of sanctions on Russia
Presidents decree prevents access to some of countrys most visited websites, sparking outcry from users"


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Offline JayH

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Re: Ukraine going too far ?
« Reply #3 on: May 19, 2017, 01:10:33 AM »
From what I've read, the blocks were to stop Russian hacking of Ukrainian government and business sites.

It is a serious issue . I am conflicted over the freedom of information  and the individuals rights  over this.

It epitomises the double edged sword .

To be noted--  VK  ( and other sites) have been restricted from the Russian end( content etc) substantially since 2014.Many Ukrainian aspects of interest have been blocked and/or deleted .That process has gained momentum.
VK is a shadow of what it was at Maidan and  2014 -- where it played an important role in rallying people in cities and towns across Ukraine to come and defend their country.
Needless to say--the Russians are way over sensitive to the role social media can play ( eg the Arab spring) in supporting and promoting democratic process.
The part the social media networks have been used by Ukraine to identify many of the Russian military and their units( & movements) has been to Ukraine's advantage.
As a  side issue  --  I watched via a link from VK  of the very first landing of Russian troops at the very start of the invasion of Ukraine at Belbeck on the Crimea  -- needless to say -- the guys on the ground witnessing the troops coming off the helicopters in full battle dress could see they were not "tourists " ~ and it was clear something much bigger was happening.It was a quite chilling revelation.In the period immediately following -- VK was well ahead of traditional news sources .Somehow -the Right Sector guys had some very good info and sent guys to watch the airport.
That is a few examples.
 
« Last Edit: May 19, 2017, 01:21:44 AM by JayH »
SLAVA UKRAYINI  ! HEROYAM SLAVA!!!!
Слава Украине! Слава героям слава!Слава Україні! Слава героям!
 translated as: Glory to Ukraine! Glory to the heroes!!!  is a Ukrainian greeting slogan being used now all over Ukraine to signify support for a free independent Ukraine

Online msmob

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Re: Ukraine going too far ?
« Reply #4 on: May 19, 2017, 01:24:13 AM »
It is a serious issue . I am conflicted over the freedom of information  and the individuals rights  over this.

It epitomises the double edged sword .

To be noted--  VK  ( and other sites) have been restricted from the Russian end( content etc) substantially since 2014.Many Ukrainian aspects of interest have been blocked and/or deleted .That process has gained momentum.
VK is a shadow of what it was at Maidan and  2014 -- where it played an important role in rallying people in cities and towns across Ukraine to come and defend their country.
Needless to say--the Russians are way over sensitive to the role social media can play ( eg the Arab spring) in supporting and promoting democratic process.
The part the social media networks have been used by Ukraine to identify many of the Russian military and their units( & movements) has been to Ukraine's advantage.
That is a few examples.


Quite... a double-edged sword....   

VK is a 'shadow of its former self'  as it's founder left / was forced out - depending on who one believes
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/VK_(social_networking)

IF his reason for leaving is true.... Ukraine is behaving in a way he would not approve of.. :( 




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Offline JayH

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Re: Ukraine going too far ?
« Reply #5 on: May 19, 2017, 01:48:19 AM »
This link has a lot of factual information on the situation . Hard to be much use here unless I am able to quote facts ! :)
The links deal with the pro's and con's !


"Russian social media sites "VKontakte" and "Odnoklassniki", the email service Mail.ru and the search engine company Yandex. All four are in the top-10 most popular websites in Ukraine. According to the research company Gemius, 10.8 million people over the age of 14 use Yandex online services in Ukraine, excluding mobile. According to Kantar TNS CMeter, 78% of all internet users in Ukraine use VKontakte (based on data from April 2017). That constitutes at least 20 million users."

The Russian sites for the antivirus companies "Kaspersky Lab" and "DrWeb" will also be blocked.


5 Facts To Know About The Russian Websites Ban in Ukraine

Ukrainian ban on Russian social media networks kicks in. It is a part of new set of sanctions targeting Russian companies in relation to the Russian invasion of Ukraine. The Ukrainian President signed a National Security and Defence Council of Ukraine decree authorizing the ban on April 28th 2017.

Here are five key facts you must know about the Russian websites ban:

#1

Ukraine Intends On Blocking Access To Russian Websites For Three Years

#2

Russian Social Networks Will Be Banned As Part of An Expansion of Sanctions

#3

The Ban Raises Concerns About Freedom of Speech in Ukraine - Whilst Others Support It

#4

Blocking Russian Websites Is Technically Impossible, Experts Say

#5

This Is Not The First Case of Banning Websites In Ukraine

http://en.hromadske.ua/posts/5-facts-to-know-about-the-russian-websites-ban-in-ukraine 



Why Ukraine Said 'Nyet' to Russian Social Networks

But even in Ukraine itself, Poroshenko's move caused dismay. For starters, the governments of European Union countries do not block internet resources, and Ukraine's ambition is some day to joining the EU. The semblance to Russian methods is also unsettling; many asked what makes Ukraine different from Russia if it resorts to the same methods. "A nice club," Sevgil Musaeva, editor of Ukraine's most popular news site Ukrainskaya Pravda, commented drily as she listed other countries that limit access to social networks: Russia, Myanmar, Vietnam, Tunisia, Syria, Iran, Saudi Arabia, China, North Korea.


http://www.bloomberg.com/view/articles/2017-05-17/why-ukraine-said-nyet-to-russian-social-networks
« Last Edit: May 19, 2017, 02:14:36 AM by JayH »
SLAVA UKRAYINI  ! HEROYAM SLAVA!!!!
Слава Украине! Слава героям слава!Слава Україні! Слава героям!
 translated as: Glory to Ukraine! Glory to the heroes!!!  is a Ukrainian greeting slogan being used now all over Ukraine to signify support for a free independent Ukraine

Offline JayH

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Re: Ukraine going too far ?
« Reply #6 on: May 19, 2017, 02:20:28 AM »
More discussion. It is also being debated heavily on Ukrainian television !

SLAVA UKRAYINI  ! HEROYAM SLAVA!!!!
Слава Украине! Слава героям слава!Слава Україні! Слава героям!
 translated as: Glory to Ukraine! Glory to the heroes!!!  is a Ukrainian greeting slogan being used now all over Ukraine to signify support for a free independent Ukraine

Online msmob

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Re: Ukraine going too far ?
« Reply #7 on: May 19, 2017, 02:47:22 AM »
Reading the video - it was clear that overall, the interviewee regarded the ban as a mistake.

The key was her regarding her as thinking it must be 'fake news' ...   

This is a HUGE mistake and whilst I agree that the Kremlin have used social media  to direct public opinion - banning is playing RIGHT into their hands

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Offline JayH

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Re: Ukraine going too far ?
« Reply #8 on: May 19, 2017, 02:59:52 AM »
Reading the video - it was clear that overall, the interviewee regarded the ban as a mistake.

The key was her regarding her as thinking it must be 'fake news' ...   

This is a HUGE mistake and whilst I agree that the Kremlin have used social media  to direct public opinion - banning is playing RIGHT into their hands

Amongst many issues involved --it does play exactly that way.
The very large majority of intellectuals,media and thinking people  etc see it that way.
Mimicking Russian behaviour is a mistake--believing in freedom of speech and democracy is not all upside.

If you watch the RT take on it all --it eventually gets around to the nazi's in Kyiv again !!
SLAVA UKRAYINI  ! HEROYAM SLAVA!!!!
Слава Украине! Слава героям слава!Слава Україні! Слава героям!
 translated as: Glory to Ukraine! Glory to the heroes!!!  is a Ukrainian greeting slogan being used now all over Ukraine to signify support for a free independent Ukraine

Offline Brasscasing

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Re: Ukraine going too far ?
« Reply #9 on: May 19, 2017, 03:46:35 PM »
No one will be 'punished' for continuing to use any of the 'Russan' social media sites.http://en.interfax.com.ua/news/general/422755.html

Thought I'd enlarge your quote so people can read it, Mike. ;)

Brass
...Combatting liberal media bias wherever it rears it's ugly head.

"Because without America there is no free world" ~ Canada Free Press

Online AkMike

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Re: Ukraine going too far ?
« Reply #10 on: May 19, 2017, 05:49:47 PM »
Thank You Brass!   :clapping: :clapping: :clapping: :clapping:


This site has gremlins working behind the scenes to screw up my posts many times. It's the only place that it happens at.

Online msmob

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Re: Ukraine going too far ?
« Reply #11 on: May 19, 2017, 08:50:57 PM »
Thank You Brass!   :clapping: :clapping: :clapping: :clapping:


This site has gremlins working behind the scenes to screw up my posts many times. It's the only place that it happens at.

If your text appears small or text size appears in your post go to your profile, look and layout, and make sure "Show WYSIWYG editor on post page by default." is unticked !
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Online AkMike

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Re: Ukraine going too far ?
« Reply #12 on: May 19, 2017, 09:40:49 PM »
It was checked! Hopefully that takes care of it!  Dyakuyu!   :clapping:

Online msmob

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Re: Ukraine going too far ?
« Reply #13 on: May 20, 2017, 01:16:13 AM »
It was checked! Hopefully that takes care of it!  Dyakuyu!   :clapping:

I had the same issue before , Sandro helped me out...
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Offline JayH

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Re: Ukraine going too far ?
« Reply #14 on: May 20, 2017, 04:58:23 PM »
At least it is still possible to discuss and debate the issue in Ukraine -- and it is a hot topic everywhere now in Ukraine.


Self-defense or a blow to democracy? Pro et contra arguments to Ukraines ban of Russian Internet companies

Immediately after promulgation, the decree caused a lively debate in Ukraine. The first impromptu survey conducted by UNIAN shows that 23% out of 15k voters support the authorities decision while at least 65% oppose it. However, another survey by Voice of America showed the opposite picture 86% were in favor and 14% against.

The reaction of the international community has so far been more unanimous: concerns about the decree were expressed by Human Right Watch, Reporters Without Borders, The Council of Europe, etc.

Euromaidan Press gathered the main arguments pro and contra the controversial decree from the Ukrainian perspective.

http://euromaidanpress.com/2017/05/19/self-defense-or-a-blow-to-democracy-pro-et-contra-arguments-to-ukraines-ban-of-russian-internet-companies/ 

Putting Kyivs decision on Russian social media in context

But those condemning Ukraine for this have failed to put its actions into context.

On the one hand, Russian propaganda has played a larger role in Ukraine than in any other former non-Russian Soviet republic because there are so many Russian speakers living in that country. Kyiv has a right to be worried about any channels that Moscow can and does use to destabilize things.

And on the other, Russia has invaded Ukraine, and social networks are a communications network that updates the use of letters and telephone calls. In the past, no one would have expected a government whose territory was invaded by another to allow its citizens unrestricted telephone and epistolary communications with citizens of the enemy country.

http://euromaidanpress.com/2017/05/19/self-defense-or-a-blow-to-democracy-pro-et-contra-arguments-to-ukraines-ban-of-russian-internet-companies/

More harm than good


When a country bans parts of the internet, its bad for free speech. This is something China, Iran, Russia and Saudi Arabia do, not democracies.

So alarm bells went off when President Petro Poroshenko on May 16 restricted Ukrainians access to Russian search engine Yandex, mail agent Mail.ru and Russian social media websites VKontakte and Odnoklassniki for three years. All four are among the 10 most-visited websites in Ukraine.

http://www.kyivpost.com/article/opinion/editorial/more-harm-than-good.html?utm_content=buffer4e547&utm_medium=social&utm_source=facebook.com&utm_campaign=buffer

« Last Edit: May 20, 2017, 05:07:19 PM by JayH »
SLAVA UKRAYINI  ! HEROYAM SLAVA!!!!
Слава Украине! Слава героям слава!Слава Україні! Слава героям!
 translated as: Glory to Ukraine! Glory to the heroes!!!  is a Ukrainian greeting slogan being used now all over Ukraine to signify support for a free independent Ukraine

 

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