Hi! LadyfromBelarus in Minsk? opinions?

[Kali25]

Thanks for all your comments.

I was married for 12 years to a Russian girl, so obviously I wasn't looking or meeting girls during this time.  Prior to this marriage I had visited both Ukraine and Russia.  I am just re-starting this year. Years ago I traveled to Ukraine and I definitely noticed a lot more problems with scammers there, not only the girls but many of the agencies.  Nowadays many of the old-style "marriage" agencies are defunct. 

Maybe because Belarus is a small country, perhaps economically somewhat better than Ukraine, and perhaps with less animosity towards the USA than Russia, I felt more comfortable with the girls there.  Perhaps due to proximity, there seemed to be a little bit more western influence here, especially in Grodno, which used to be part of Poland.  Definitely not as many foreign guys visit Belarus, so that was a plus for me.  I found 2 old fashioned marriage agencies where you get to meet the owner in person, go through their catalogs, get introduced to many girls, etc., and found these 2 particular agencies to be helpful and honest.  I found that although people in these 3 countries are all slavic, I felt a difference in culture here compared to Russia and Ukraine.  Perhaps it was not an fair comparison because I have not been to Russia and Ukraine in years.  Again, it is just my perception. 

Obviously this time, because of my age, I was focusing on girls in their late 30's, most of them were previously married with a child, and obviously not as stunning looking as the really young ones.  I think the older ones, perhaps not as attractive, are less likely to be scamming.  I made the mistake of focusing on 2 girls who did not know English, and this resulted in communication difficulties, frustration, on their part mostly.   At least for me, I still find that it is beneficial for the girl to speak at least some English.

We'll see what happens. 

Again, thank you for your comments. 

[Hammer2722]

Belarus is definitely not better economically than Ukraine....

[Kali25]

Hammer2722, I see your girlfriend is from Belarus.  Where in Belarus did you visit? I visited Minsk and Grodno.  I really liked the country and its people.   They certainly complained about their economy, but I've heard the same from Ukranians.

[Trenchcoat]

Obviously this time, because of my age, I was focusing on girls in their late 30's, most of them were previously married with a child, and obviously not as stunning looking as the really young ones.  I think the older ones, perhaps not as attractive, are less likely to be scamming.  I made the mistake of focusing on 2 girls who did not know English, and this resulted in communication difficulties, frustration, on their part mostly.   At least for me, I still find that it is beneficial for the girl to speak at least some English.

We'll see what happens. 

Again, thank you for your comments.

I think you are probably right. The problem I am finding I am having is that I look on dating sites and see a real hottie in her mid to late twenties and I keep thinking about her and can't get her out of my mind. Aesthetically they can fit the criteria I like very well but I just keep thinking it could be more time wasted on the wrong girl. that as she is not in her thirties she will not be in a last chance situation so will be random as to whether she is serious or not. At the moment I have noticed a 25 year old hottie in Kiev, Ukraine, well it was a few week ago actually. I was looking to see if my last girlfriend had been online, she had (disloyal b*tch, lol) anyway in doing so there was a load of profile to other women that came up along with hers. That is when I noticed this new hottie she just struck out to me above all others, her face, her eyes, her hot bod wearing a nice short dress Its a pain as I really know theoretically I am better of with girls in their thirties as I want children plus I've done Ukraine/Kiev a fair bit now so a change would be nice. So what to do...  

[Sting23]

At the moment I have noticed a 25 year old hottie in Kiev, Ukraine, well it was a few week ago actually. I was looking to see if my last girlfriend had been online, she had (disloyal b*tch, lol) anyway in doing so there was a load of profile to other women that came up along with hers. That is when I noticed this new hottie she just struck out to me above all others, her face, her eyes, her hot bod wearing a nice short dress Its a pain as I really know theoretically I am better of with girls in their thirties as I want children plus I've done Ukraine/Kiev a fair bit now so a change would be nice. So what to do...

Dude you sound like a teenage virgin who just hit puberty... no she's not your "girlfriend" you never had one. (disloyal b***) grow up man you sound delusional.
none of the girls you met in Ukraine liked you romantically.  You can't even get a date in your own city.  I mean forget about age, you are striking out with women no matter how old they are.

I am beginning to think this guy is the biggest troll or so full of smoke up his arse that he's living in a fantasy world.

[JayH]

Dude you sound like a teenage virgin who just hit puberty... no she's not your "girlfriend" you never had one. (disloyal b***) grow up man you sound delusional.
none of the girls you met in Ukraine liked you romantically.  You can't even get a date in your own city.  I mean forget about age, you are striking out with women no matter how old they are.

I am beginning to think this guy is the biggest troll or so full of smoke up his arse that he's living in a fantasy world.

http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/index.php?topic=22204.new#new

[Trenchcoat]

Dude you sound like a teenage virgin who just hit puberty... no she's not your "girlfriend" you never had one. (disloyal b***) grow up man you sound delusional.
none of the girls you met in Ukraine liked you romantically.  You can't even get a date in your own city.  I mean forget about age, you are striking out with women no matter how old they are.

I am beginning to think this guy is the biggest troll or so full of smoke up his arse that he's living in a fantasy world.

Sting you haven't even got on a plane to visit any girls in the FSU. Until you do you really have no idea about the situation with FSU dating. You have no experience upon which to make a judgement about my situation or others on here. Why don't you yell us more about yourself & your situation so you my learn more of what you need do when/if you get to date a FSW.

[Sting23]

Sting you haven't even got on a plane to visit any girls in the FSU. Until you do you really have no idea about the situation with FSU dating. You have no experience upon which to make a judgement about my situation or others on here. Why don't you yell us more about yourself & your situation so you my learn more of what you need do when/if you get to date a FSW.

Trench I have lived and worked in Moscow twice for extended periods. Have dated Russian girls in my home city and abroad and probably have more Russian lady friends than you have total friends.  I speak basic Russian. 

You have made what, 2 or 3 week long trips to Ukraine and struck out with every woman you met there.  I though you came here looking for advice but apparently you just like to spout off nonsense. 

[Trenchcoat]

Trench I have lived and worked in Moscow twice for extended periods. Have dated Russian girls in my home city and abroad and probably have more Russian lady friends than you have total friends.  I speak basic Russian. 

You have made what, 2 or 3 week long trips to Ukraine and struck out with every woman you met there.  I though you came here looking for advice but apparently you just like to spout off nonsense.

That's not what your profile says, it says trips, none yet and looking 1-2 years. Perhaps you should change that instead of coming on here displayin your a novice in your profile so you can then step forward and say actually no I'm not, I'm actually an expert.

[msmob]

that as she is not in her thirties she will not be in a last chance situation 

More Trench bollox

I started my search in my early forties and sought ladies in their mid to late thirties....  'desperate' is not an emotion I detected, then..

Whilst the ladies might have been single  - it was more often or not THEIR choice to have ended their marriage..

They were not looking to repeat their mistake




 

[ML]

Not that it's the most important thing in the world, but . . . the sidebar profiles could be expanded a bit.

For instance; Spouse's country?
Why not girlfriend, fiance, significant other, etc.

And number of trips; This can be misleading when  some trips may have been for something other than woman chasing.  So at least 2 subcategories are needed.

Also a line for total days in country.  This might be more meaningful than number of trips.

How about number of women met in total including half hour coffee meetings.

Then number of women went on date with that lasted for at least 4 hours.

There can be other categories and info.  Together a picture would be provided as to the actual experience of a poster.

[JayH]

http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/index.php?topic=22204.new#new

This is a good example of what I was pointing out to Trenchcoat  in the link above     ie -- that he manages to divert the threads ( many of them)  into  a discussion of what HE POSTS!  Which as Moby is forced to point out again--it is mostly "BOLLOX"

To ML -- it diverts threads from the OP -- and it is a pia . The guy never learns-- no matter how often it is pointed out -he is dimply to dim to get it.

Above-- I attempted to direct the discussion on Trenchcoat into his thread where it was already in full swing .

Further-- my suggestion to all-- and particularly Trenchcoat --put all his posts in HIS thread -regardless of the topic . He will still draw responses from those that can be bothered -- but  --having every thread about him is a deterrent to others to post-- partly because most initially feel the rest of us are being "nasty" to him( or bulllying .

Sting you haven't even got on a plane to visit any girls in the FSU. Until you do you really have no idea about the situation with FSU dating. You have no experience upon which to make a judgement about my situation or others on here. Why don't you yell us more about yourself & your situation so you my learn more of what you need do when/if you get to date a FSW.

Trench I have lived and worked in Moscow twice for extended periods. Have dated Russian girls in my home city and abroad and probably have more Russian lady friends than you have total friends.  I speak basic Russian. 

You have made what, 2 or 3 week long trips to Ukraine and struck out with every woman you met there.  I though you came here looking for advice but apparently you just like to spout off nonsense. 

That's not what your profile says, it says trips, none yet and looking 1-2 years. Perhaps you should change that instead of coming on here displayin your a novice in your profile so you can then step forward and say actually no I'm not, I'm actually an expert.

More Trench bollox

I started my search in my early forties and sought ladies in their mid to late thirties....  'desperate' is not an emotion I detected, then..

Whilst the ladies might have been single  - it was more often or not THEIR choice to have ended their marriage..

They were not looking to repeat their mistake

Trenchcoat responses -- again show (here and in other thread)  how shallow and lacking in comprehension he is . When he makes incorrect presumptions -- bases on avatar read out(   something he also did to me today and has done so previously -- to me and numerous others)  he fails to apologise-- but blame others !!

Not that it's the most important thing in the world, but . . . the sidebar profiles could be expanded a bit.

For instance; Spouse's country?
Why not girlfriend, fiance, significant other, etc.
And number of trips; This can be misleading when  some trips may have been for something other than woman chasing.  So at least 2 subcategories are needed.
Also a line for total days in country.  This might be more meaningful than number of trips.
How about number of women met in total including half hour coffee meetings.
Then number of women went on date with that lasted for at least 4 hours.
There can be other categories and info.  Together a picture would be provided as to the actual experience of a poster.

I agree  that it does no explain much.
That said -- the general posts often flesh out information eg   Sting -- his explanation expansion is only a few days old and in a thread where Trenchcoat was posting --so really -- no excuse for not knowing that --instead --he lashes out in a way off beam attack !!

Lastly -- to Trenchcoat-- don't leave  -- but -- learn to ask questions and do some thinking about the responses. Stop regurgitating information or YOUR opinions gleaned from others. Stop placing so much stake on guys( 2 in particular) that have actually spent very little time on the ground over the last 5 years ( fwiw TC-not many more than you have-- they can advise you on being married and living in America no problem )
My last word TC -- my grandfather gave me this one -- "when you listen to yourself talking -there is only one thing you can learn" there is a punchline -- but not going to use it here because I will get quoted !

[Sting23]

That's not what your profile says, it says trips, none yet and looking 1-2 years. Perhaps you should change that instead of coming on here displayin your a novice in your profile so you can then step forward and say actually no I'm not, I'm actually an expert.

Dude don't believe everything online.  I came upon this forum by chance and didn't even know it was mainly a place where guys did trips to the FSU looking for a wife.  I just thought it was a forum discussing Russian and Ukrainian women with western men.

I registered here 2 years ago and totally forgot about it.  I just happen to come back to this site again a week ago.  I randomly filled out the profile.

From how you write and all you got a lot to learn. If that is how you truly interact with women.  I would say good luck but it would be better to humbly accept advice from the experienced members here and listen more than you talk.

[Boethius]

I don't think others' experiences are useful in interpersonal relationships. 


Others can tell you about scammers, about the culture, about attitudes, but at the end of the day, a relationship succeeds or fails based on the two individuals involved, and I don't believe that can be taught.

[finn1974]

I think women from Belarus are harder to get along with, comparing to those from Russia or Ukraine. I don't know why though. The only advantage of Belarus is that perhaps since it has very few guys from the West visiting it, then those who do visit would stand out more easily than in RU or in UA. Scam-wise, I think it's about the same everywhere. There's no any kind of a research that showed that there's less scam in BY vs. RU or UA.

[Anotherkiwi]

I don't think others' experiences are useful in interpersonal relationships.

It depends on what that experience is (either good or bad).  if you're talking in generalities, even some of the stuff posted here MAY be useful to someone at some stage.

Others can tell you about scammers, about the culture, about attitudes, but at the end of the day, a relationship succeeds or fails based on the two individuals involved...

Exactly.

and I don't believe that can be taught.

...as we can see with Trenchcoat.  His whole attitude is that every woman (but maybe only every FSU woman) is out to scam the crap out of him, and this before he's even had any correspondence with them, let alone actually met them!  I honestly can't see how he will ever have any sort of relationship unless he undergoes a complete metamorphosis.

[2tallbill]

How about number of women met in total including half hour coffee meetings.

I couldn't begin to know how to count them all.

Then number of women went on date with that lasted for at least 4 hours.

I would have a chance trying to figure that out.

Regarding Angel Eyes,

I went to see Angel Eyes 4 times x approx 10 days = 40
She came to see me twice once for 25-30 days and
once for 70+ days and then I drove her to Vegas and
married her before she could change her mind.

[CaptB]

As Doll said (not verbatim).........blaming the country is not a reason......but maybe it is ......you. you mentioned a lot of vacations with woman from Ukraine & Russia......to other countries. There are a lot of positive things about sticking with a "single" country. Getting to know the history....culture......language. Moving from country to country sounds like ...."running away". The truth is.....a good partner can be found in "any" country. I chose Russia.....because the country was always fascinating to me. My first introduction......"Yuri Gargarin"........the first man in space. For the longest time.......my wife (from Stavropol, Russia)......did not believe the "yuri" did Danon yogurt commercials in the USA....in the 1960's (whoops!!!!....a side note).......until I showed her a youtube video of it.......... Sorry Yuri. THE FIRST MAN IN SPACE !!!!!!!!!!!!!! You can only be first...........ONCE!!!!!!!!!!!!!! An 8 Y.O. boy from the USA.....a really big fan of....the first man in space. That is why kids are so cool. The cold war means nothing to kids...........but being the first "human" into space..........enormous!!!!!!!!! Peter the Great..........a really interesting figure in world history. Read "Peter the Great" by Robert K. Massie.........just fascinating. I love Russia. No country is perfect. Most imperfections (not all....but most".......are due to politics (politicians)). I have very nice in-laws, friends etc. in Russia. My first 24 hours (or less)......I felt completely at ease........a second home. I was watching the equivalent of MTV less than 8 hours in Russia (in particular a video of Alexander Marshall.......the song was Belyi Papi........"white Ash(es)"................................  I knew I would be comfortable here........in Russia.


Pick a place that fascinates you........find a women.........meet her in her environment (her home town). Meet her relatives.......friends.......coworkers. Pay attention to how they (all) regard her (him) as a person. Build a relationship........then........go on vacations........have some fun. Do the serious work ..............................firstl!!!!!!!!!


Capt B

[galina]

today I occasionally entered the name of our agency and found some strange reviews on Belarus agencies. I followed them and link by link i came to that forum.  And my head went round. I have found  many false accusations on the internet. And from recent we have our own personal stalker - a man, who claims that we are scam and all the ladies are scam... Knowing this man from inside and the situation from inside, I start to doubt the piles of accusations to the other agencies.

What I can say about us. We run marriage agency for 20 years already, and we never had time to trace any reviews on the internet as we were totally concentrated on providing good quality of service. So we were doing our job - we were arranging  the meetings between foreign singles and single belarusian women. Our success rate is huge -  during the years of our work we created more than 1100 families.  And I never payed any attention on what client write about us in internet.  So today I was shocked. I know my every client. Even if I do not meet him in person  - I do for him photos, check his profile,  or arrange the meetings, or speak with ladies after the meetings, or check the report written by my collegues, so I get to  know every person coming to the agency. And today I have seen people claiming that they have been to our agency though they have never been.

Then I started to check the other topics and I have to say something from the name of the agency owner. Maybe, it'll be helpful you some men coming to Eastern Europe, maybe you will understand better how to deal with the agency.

First of all you should destinguish between scam agency and scam lady. Scam agency tries to fool you

-being absolutely fake. Some agencies do not exist at all.  They can have good website, long stories about each ladies, you pay big money, come to the city and there is nobody to meet you. Some agencies like that manage to exist for years.
-taking too much money for the normal service. For example, 150-500 Euro for the service, that costs 50.
-showing you fake positive replies, for example,  they say that they have  15 model-looking ladies 20-30 y.o. without children looking forward to see you, you pay agency fee before your trip. and when you come, you meet only  45 y.o. ladies with children.
-paying the ladies for coming to the meeting. This model is quite popular, but you should understand, that  it's not about the meetings that cost 50 Euro  or less.

Scam lady can fool you
-being absolutely fake. It's written everywhere in Internet: Do not send money to somebody you do not know in person,  even if she writes she loves you and is starving to death.
-"helping to organise your trip to the country"  and taking too much money for the normal service. It's widespread in Belarus when the lady writes you and skypes you and then you end up paying 500 USD for taxi transfer to her small city on the  border, paying 500 USD for apartment which costs 50USD per week, and then she escapes for a minute and dissapears forever. And nobody in this village have ever spoken english to help you.
-after the actual meeting - showing fake interest and asking for money and expensive gifts.
-taking the money for the trip and never actually coming.

And it's absolutely  important to distinguish between this 2 sorts of scam, because if in the first case you should run as quickly as possible from the fake agency, in the second case the agency can help you fighting the scam lady.

So, what you can do in all that situations. Earlier I would recomend to google the reviews on the agency - but now I really doubt.  There is so much bullshit written here and there, I do not know - maybe by competitors, maybe by forsaken men, maybe by inadequate stalkers.  Speak with the agency, ask the questions, ask how they work - when you meet the right agency, you will feel it.

What precaution can be taken not to be scammed by the agency:
-not pay for the whole service before the trip. Agency can ask you for some prepayment. But not for the whole sum.
-be sane about the  positive replies. You've selected 20 ladies and got 20 positive replies? Run away from this agency. Even if you are  prince on a hourse, there will be some, that  do not like your hair style, or profession or country. Doing partnercheck for last 14 years at the agency, we have got absolutely positive reply (20 out of 20) once. ONCE.  If you get 20 out of 20 it means they do not ask the ladies. Think about it.

Earlier or later you  should do the step - come to the country of you future bride and meet the ladies - put attention on:

-interpreters. are you offered an interpreter for the meeting? They can be very helpful, if you do not have common language. But better if you compare the prices in advance. If you can hire an interpreter for 10 Euro per hour in this city for a business meeting, why you should pay 50 Euro per hour for table talks?
-meetings. Agency showed you 10 positive replies from the selected ladies. It's ok, if one or two or even three fail to appear - expecially in flu times of in  vacation times. But if they fail to present you 8 out of 10 - it's not a good agency.
-ladies. Take a look how they behave.  Are they interested? Do they benefit something from the meeting but knowing you? I do not mean box of chocolates  that you have brought her.  Of course, there are completely different behaviour depending upon the character. But be honest, you can notice when she is not interested and have never been.
-where the meetings are held.  Many agencies do not own good offices and arrange the meeting in the caffees. But you should estimate, how much you pay for the restaurant,  coffee+ desert is not the same as 3 courses in the most expensive restaurant of the city.

If everything goes well with the agency, you are lucky, let's  take a look at the ladies.

-they claim to be interested?  My experience shows that russians are too polite to show their impression on the first meeting. Pay attention: did she give you the number? Write her. Thank her for the meeting, ask her about the next meeting. Her positive reply will be the sign of her positive impression. "I have to think" or " i am very busy" is no.  And be honest with yourself, "no" doesn't mean she is scam. "No" means she doesn't like you. And it's her right.

-The real bad sign is if you ask her for a second date and she selects the most expensive restaurant of the city. And this is the moment when the agency can help you. Be honest with your agency. Of course, it's not comfortable to tell it to the lady, but you can say directly to the agency: I would like to  have a dinner in $$ restaurant, not in a $$$. And the agency can tell you, what kind of restaurant she is inviting you in.

-The real bad sign is if  she asks you to make her a present.  Serious lady appreciates you as a person, she will not do that.  If you give her an expensive gift - next time she will ask for more. 

Again, i noway prevent you from making nice surprises, i speak about situations when on the second meeting she says: please give me 70 USD  toy-hourse for my child. When she asks for the gifts herself. (but not in case when you ask her 10 times-what  present would you like? )
The only thing about you, guys,  that I do not  understand, why you do not tell it to the agency in time. In our agency it is 100% sign to remove the lady from database. You give her this hourse, pay 200 USD for restaurant and then claim all the ladies from Belarus are scammers. 

I will try to explain again. If the lady is scam, the normal agency will be on your side.
We cannot return you the money for the toy-horse, but
-we can remove the lady from the database to prevent her from meeting of other clients.
-we can advice what kind of restaurant is the place, where she appoints the second date. By the way, there is a nice hint: if the lady is interested in you, she will be interested not only to go to a fancy restaurant, but also have a walk in the park or skiskate in the icehall. Of course, if you walk like 3 hours at -10 degree, or if she wears 10 heels it's not a good idea.  But if you have good conversation she will not mind cup of coffee instead of oysters and shampagne.
-we can help you to prosecute in  hard cases. We had some issues (not with the ladies from our agency, mostly in case, where the men where robbed by their internet girlfriend) where we helped the interrogation. 
But you should understand,  you cannot force somebody to  do something in our field. To receive a present and not have relations with you after that - it's not a crime. Better be reasonable   before throwing money here and there.
-we always recommend to buy tickets, not to send money for the trip. In this case you can be sure she cannot benefit instead of coming to you. And "buying tickets - not coming" happens also to normal lady, when the man starts to behave himself as an asshole  in the meanwhile between arranging the trip and actual visit.

If you meet a scammer at the agency, try to speak to the agency. See how they react. As an agency, we cannot "control" the ladies.  Even if we organise the meetings and see them often. There always can be "black sheeps" here and there. But normal agency will help you to protect yourself and they will remove the lady from database. And we are waiting for cooperation also from our clients to keep the community clean.

[ML]

What I can say about us. We run marriage agency for 20 years already, . . . Our success rate is huge -  during the years of our work we created more than 1100 families. 

That is quite a claim Galina.
Hard to believe, given other info reported here that many agencies have virtually no matches that lead to marriage

[msmob]

I'd say if even 5-10% could be proven - with wedding photos of the happy couples ( plus town of bride and groom ) - we'd believe it

[BillyB]

Welcome to the forum Galina. Is your agency name the same as in the title of the thread?

[Maxx2]

I checked out the agency. Two positives struck me. The women enter into their profiles realistic age difference requirements. Not 18-19 year olds looking for men up to 90 years old I've seen on other sites. In fact no teenagers at all. And recent testimonials. The site I compare it to with the teenagers looking for elderly men haven't had a testimonial of success since 2007. Of course things can be faked.


Yes, welcome to the forum Galina.

[tfcrew]

As usual, the thread starter disappears.
Was full of it anyway.
'She didn't want kids' was probably a way of saying something else.

If a newbie reads this post.. understand that you can go to any place in the world... find a lady and  it  maybe it doesn't work out.
However, you can return to that same city [Moscow or Minsk ...New York or Omaha] and go across the street from where they were and find the love of your life.
If you are going to extensively travel to see someone...then you can afford to be particular.