Russian Women Discussion

RWD Discussion Groups => Married => Topic started by: Son of Clyde on December 06, 2005, 09:07:21 AM

Title: woman are women
Post by: Son of Clyde on December 06, 2005, 09:07:21 AM
I am starting to believe what has been said over and over on these boards, that women are the same all over the world.

A FSU woman is probably as beautiful as any I have seen but deep down her personality is like any woman.

I am learning that a strong willed, domineering woman could be the same in any country. We have our share right here in the U S of A.
Title: woman are women
Post by: Bruno on December 06, 2005, 11:34:37 AM
Welcome in the Club :?...:D:D:D
Title: woman are women
Post by: BC on December 06, 2005, 12:33:25 PM
[user=130]Son of Clyde[/user] wrote:
Quote
I am starting to believe what has been said over and over on these boards, that women are the same all over the world....
Quote
I am learning that a strong willed, domineering woman could be the same in any country. We have our share right here in the U S of A.

It's all in chapter 9 - 'Whips and Chains' section of the instruction manual.

(written by jb of course!)

:D
Title: woman are women
Post by: Albert on December 06, 2005, 02:42:23 PM
And Clyde, you could go even futher.  FSU women can be as ugly as any seen before.  FSU women are no smarter or dumber than any other.  FSU women are no more educated or cultured than any other.

Women are women the world over.  There are good, bad, ugly, beautiful, smart, dumb, etc., in every country.  For every beautiful, smart, educated, cultured woman you can find in FSU, there are several identical ones right here in USA.

The only difference is that average guys can aspire to the best the FSU has to offer but cannot aspire to the best the USA has to offer.

Its all in the economics.  If and when the economics improves substantially in the FSU as a whole (not just for a few as it already has), then we won't be able to aspire to the best the FSU has to offer.

So enjoy (or suffer, as the case may be) for the time being.

Title: woman are women
Post by: dostogirl on December 06, 2005, 07:52:10 PM
Well I guess I have to say that men are men... :D And, as Evtushenko said, the best men are women ;)
Title: woman are women
Post by: jb on December 07, 2005, 06:04:03 AM
BC,

I didn't write the book entirely by myself, many others deserve much  credit for tirelessly contributing their time and experience to chapter  and verse.
Title: woman are women
Post by: jb on January 03, 2006, 04:52:28 AM
I had hoped when Clyde started this thread that it might lead to  something useful and valuable that a newbie might actually learn  something from.  I was kinda dissappointed when it fizzeled.   

Living with a Russian, actually two of them, along with constant  association with other Russians and ethnic Russian Ukrainians both on  the phone and at social gathering allows some of us old married guys a  glimpse into the so called Russian soul that many a newbie is light  years away from.    There is a mistique about them, but  there is no mystery about RWs, there is sweetness, and also a dark  side.   PMS is not an unknown quality among RWs, as well as a  number of other items that support the notion that "Women are  Women".  I thought we might start a list of traits we married guys  have seen.  I'm not thinking about the need to be dressed before  going out of the house, that's been discussed to death.  I'm  asking about deep personality issues, those things the MOB myth doesn't  deal with or even might be afraid to talk about.

For example: has anybody else noticed that there always seems to be a  huge gap between the "planning" and the "execution" when dealing with  the future events?  I've discussed this with some other married  men and we wonder if all those years under Soviet mind control didn't  somehow remove some part of the creative side of the Russian  soul.  Every Russian woman I've met so far has a great "executer"  and has a "can-do" personality, but they seem to be terrible planners,  always placing the responsibility for that on someone else's  shoulders. 

Another thought that has crossed my mind is that to be a good husband  to a RW, to a large extent you must also be a father repacement  figure.  And no, I'm not bringing up age gaps here, what I'm  saying is that Russian women seem to be happy, comfortable and feel  most secure if there is an authority/father figure around.  I'm  assuming that within the older, very comfortable, Russian family mold,  the dad was the boss and as husband you are sorta slipping into the  role.  There are some side effects to this issue that I'd be happy  to see discussed, as in the relationship between happy playful moods as  opposed to when she turns into the worry wart and the grouch.  Is  it possible this revolves around how secure she might feel?

I think you can see the drift, as in: "it's easy to love the kitten,  but hard to like the cat". with a bit of effort, this thread could  easily become a decent learning thread.
Title: woman are women
Post by: BC on January 03, 2006, 05:38:28 AM
Good idea jb..

Just off the top of my head:

Admitting faults or mistakes seems quite difficult, as head of the household (figuratively speaking) when something goes wrong it is most definitely MY fault :D.  Takes some getting used to.

Yes planning..  used to be 'taboo' here. Has changed though over time.  I think this has to do with keeping low expectations.. quite reasonable attitude in RU where many wants simply are not or cannot be realized.  Here with more possibilities (financial etc) the desire to plan ahead increases.. watch out though usually a goal is stated and the real 'planning' and collecting resources to achieve are up to you:?

Comparitive shopping seems to be a difficult concept.. 'Name brands' and 'quality' have a lot of pull.

When I'm working on a project around the house 'my way' is usually overruled and a 'better way' suggested.  After a couple of hefty arguments the most illogical solutions proposed actually worked out quite well..  never underestimate a RW.

more later as it pops up..




Title: woman are women
Post by: Son of Clyde on January 03, 2006, 07:33:25 AM
My two cents.

Read the tablets of stone.

I am realizing, to do this process correctly the guy should be earning around $100,000.00 a year (or more) to feel comfortable with a Russian wife AND child. My $62,000.00 seems like a mere pittance at times.

Dating a RW is not for entry level dating. This statement is pure gold.

I am learning by trial and error that much of what is written in the tablets of stone is the truth.

If you live in a trailor park and work at Burger King DO NOT PURSUE A RW.

If you are self centered and not willing to bend DO NOT PURSUE A RW.

If you are content to live a simple life with few luxories DO NOT PURSUE A RW.

If you are lazy and would rather someone else do the work DO NOT PURSUE A RW

Actually, my wife insists on doing 90% of the housework and the kitchen is HERS. She accepts that I work hard for the money I earn. We do all clean house together many times. It takes much less time also.

I told my wife yesterday we are quite different, she is outgoing and I am quiet and reserved. She said she likes this quality and would not be with me if I was agressive and domineering.

The problem I am having is that she is not afraid to make a scene in a store and when she does this I usually want to walk away from her. I will only make a scene if I am driven to the point of anger and there is no other way around it.

My RW marriage is the most difficult thing I have ever done and it makes the visa process seem easy in comparison.  The real work starts when she arrives at the airport.

Happy New Year everyone.

Title: woman are women
Post by: catzenmouse on January 03, 2006, 07:40:52 AM
[user=130]Son of Clyde[/user] wrote:
Quote
My RW marriage is the most difficult thing I have ever done and it makes the visa process seem easy in comparison.  The real work starts when she arrives at the airport.

This needs to be added to the Tablets of Stone! No matter how much time you may spend with her in the FSU there is no real way to prepare for all that happens when she arrives. This is truly the definition of a "Life Changing Expreience" in every possible way.

Ken

P.S. For what its worth SoC, I think you have made great strides forward in this relationship and in your personal life. Not easy things to do normally and especially so in a public forum situation.
Title: woman are women
Post by: Ste on January 03, 2006, 07:56:36 AM
Good topic, but I would like to ad the stereotype is different for the younger FSU woman maybe. Nad' was only 9 when USSR collapsed so all she can remeber really is turmoil, money changing value daily, prices going up.....

Not much Soviet thinking left in her....

But on the whole she's really not more difficult or different to live with than any other woman, but you have to remember that they are 6000-12000 miles away from home, and although it might not show, it simmers underneath. That's true for any nationality though.

Friends here joke with her about her Russian-ness, "can you sell me some drugs", "did you bribe people to come here" etc, some friends I know but Northern wit can be a bit biting and she takes it in good stead. But after the twentieth time..........

On the reverse her parents seem like my parents and I just cannot imagine them relocating 6000 miles or wanting to visit us her or changing much about their lives at all really....

Ste
Title: woman are women
Post by: catzenmouse on January 03, 2006, 08:02:29 AM
Quote from: Ste
Good topic, but I would like to ad the stereotype is different for the younger FSU woman maybe. Nad' was only 9 when USSR collapsed so all she can remeber really is turmoil, money changing value daily, prices going up.....

Not much Soviet thinking left in her....

But on the whole she's really not more difficult or different to live with than any other woman, but you have to remember that they are 6000-12000 miles away from home, and although it might not show, it simmers underneath. That's true for any nationality though.

Friends here joke with her about her Russian-ness, "can you sell me some drugs", "did you bribe people to come here" etc, some friends I know but Northern wit can be a bit biting and she takes it in good stead. But after the twentieth time..........

On the reverse her parents seem like my parents and I just cannot imagine them relocating 6000 miles or wanting to visit us her or changing much about their lives at all really....

Ste

The missing of home, family, language, foods, etc. is VERY big.

One thing that has begun to drive Elena nuts is that everyone (and I DO mean everyone!) asks her where she is from and if she likes it here. As she is working in a shop she sees a lot of different people each day. Now she just tells them she is from Richmond and enjoys the quizzical look on their faces...:D

Ken
Title: woman are women
Post by: Son of Clyde on January 03, 2006, 12:10:30 PM
I will have to lie back and refrain from posting too much personal stuff for awhile. I don't think what I posted recently is too bad but I want to make sure it is not seen by my family. She thinks our private lives should remain private and I agree with this.
Title: woman are women
Post by: jb on January 03, 2006, 12:26:03 PM
Clyde,

I've gotta admit,,, I never would have guessed a year ago I'd see such  wisdom coming from you.   After reading your post above I  have to think I can pass the torch over to you, maybe it's time for me  to retire.
Title: woman are women
Post by: Son of Clyde on January 03, 2006, 12:31:17 PM
jb,

I will say this for all to read.

I truly like you and your wisdom may be tough going down (for some of us) but you always try to speak the truth.

You are like the father image of RWD although there are not so many years difference in our ages.
Title: woman are women
Post by: jb on January 03, 2006, 01:38:10 PM
Clyde,

I'd prefer not to be seen as a "father figure",,, maybe more like an  old, wiser, smarter big brother, but certainly not a father.

I'm glad to see the progress you've made.  However, I think you  will have the same problems I, and others, have encountered as you  attempt to pass this wisdom on to the next class.  They will  probably not be any more receptive to this knowledge than you were when  you started down this path.  Honestly I some times felt I as if  was conducting a spelling bee for the deaf mutes, where I had to show  the word, then ask how to spell it.  It gets tiresome.

Good luck in your new career as top dog at the RWD.
Title: woman are women
Post by: Turboguy on January 03, 2006, 02:14:17 PM
Clyde, If jb passes the torch to you, you have to start eating nails for breakfast.  The shredded wheat just won't get you in the spirit :toocool:
Title: woman are women
Post by: KenC on January 03, 2006, 03:19:30 PM
Clyde?  Clyde?  Is that you?:dude:

Wow, who woulda thunk it!  Very very good post.  By George, I think he got it!

BC,
Quote

Yes planning..  used to be 'taboo' here. Has changed though over time.  I think this has to do with keeping low expectations.. quite reasonable attitude in RU where many wants simply are not or cannot be realized.

I have to agree with this.  When Lena first arrived, she not only didn't plan, but refused to plan so as not to be disappointed.  She had a thing about not getting her hopes up too high in order to avoid disappointment.  I looked at this as a very pessimistic outlook.  It was difficult for me because I was so optimistic.

I know we all had to be everything for our ladies when they first arrived, but after a while they need to stand on their own two feet.  I found myself saying "I am not resposible for your entertainment" quite a bit a few years ago.  It is almost a weening process from the times when you had to do everything for them.

KenC
Title: woman are women
Post by: dostogirl on January 03, 2006, 06:28:42 PM
Quote from: KenC
 I looked at this as a very pessimistic outlook.  It was difficult for me because I was so optimistic.


You should read this book, will help you to understand a lot why she does it :D:

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0781808324/qid=1136338095/sr=8-1/ref=pd_bbs_1/103-9995929-7856669?n=507846&s=books&v=glance (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0781808324/qid=1136338095/sr=8-1/ref=pd_bbs_1/103-9995929-7856669?n=507846&s=books&v=glance)
Title: woman are women
Post by: KenC on January 03, 2006, 06:45:38 PM
Dostogirl,

After over seven years with my wife, I think I am a little past "Wedded Strangers."  But thanks any way.  Whether you understand the reasons why or not, a RW's pessimism can be a real downer.  Their fear of getting too excited about the future because it might put a hex on it is almost comical.

Anyone ever notice how RW become "big picture" people and let you handle the details?  I think this is what jb was saying.  I also think this is related to that "weening"process I spoke about.  The longer I am married to Lena, the dumber I become, forcing her to think for herself and do for herself.  She has to learn sometime as I will not always be here for her.  A good example is that she is at this very moment registering for her next semister at the University.  I am totally hands off of this process now.  No sense me cornering the market on frustration.:cool:

KenC
Title: woman are women
Post by: ConnerVT on January 03, 2006, 06:49:22 PM
Quote from: jb
I'd prefer not to be seen as a "father figure",,,

Aw, Dad... Can I borrow the keys to the car tonight?...  :P
Title: woman are women
Post by: Vaughn on January 03, 2006, 07:43:12 PM
I've found that in three years stateside, my wife's level of self-confidence has increased tremendously. Born during
Krushchev's rule, she had plenty of time to learn and embody the limits encouraged by old Soviet standards. Never had she driven an automobile, nor was she encouraged to - absolutely no need. She was 37, divorced with a child, an English vocabulary consisting of "yes, no" and "goodbye" and decided NOBODY would ever notice her profile. She held a Masters and a very good job, yet local economics held her to "just getting by". She has blossomed here with respect to her potential for achievement.

Yeah, planning - what's that? I plan, she executes. At 22, she lost her father. We interact as husband and wife, but when she's having a rough day, I comfort her as a Dad would. She's still clueless about abstracts like deductibles, the Nasdaq and property tax, but is fluent in fuel consumption, savings accounts and credit reports. She distrusted banks - now she works for one. Years ago, savings meant stashing rubles in some hidey-hole.

When USCIS did not respond to our AOS application immediately, she regarded me suspiciously. When I was a younger man, I would have shown resentment - instead, I preached patience and understanding. Her Russian girlfriends didn't help the cause - they encouraged her to accompany me when I purchased Money Orders for the AOS process, as if I brought her here for a brief 6-month sleepover. Her trust in me was shaken, and my mind kept playing Let It Be.

I'd like to add to the tablets, comments welcome.

  If you harbor personal issues, and still conduct your interpersonal behavior much as you did as a very young man,work on those issues with yourself before subjecting a Russian/Ukrainian woman to them. Do you enjoy rescuing others? Be honest now - do you operate so as to gain approval from others, and love the gratification it brings? Have you a long history of relationship troubles, and expect a foreign bride to be the answer to those troubles? This is no miracle cure, my friend. These ladies, like ALL ladies, will NOT buy the facade.





                 
Title: woman are women
Post by: dostogirl on January 03, 2006, 10:48:10 PM
Quote from: KenC
Dostogirl,

After over seven years with my wife, I think I am a little past "Wedded Strangers." 
I'm a little surprized it takes her so long to get rid of negativism that she acquired in FSU. I think my first year with my husband (then a fiancee) was somewhat like that. Right now though I'm very different. I take care of myslef, my husband and al the detailes (if I remember all of them). :D
Title: woman are women
Post by: catzenmouse on January 04, 2006, 05:47:02 AM
Quote from: dostogirl
You should read this book, will help you to understand a lot why she does it :D:

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0781808324/qid=1136338095/sr=8-1/ref=pd_bbs_1/103-9995929-7856669?n=507846&s=books&v=glance (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0781808324/qid=1136338095/sr=8-1/ref=pd_bbs_1/103-9995929-7856669?n=507846&s=books&v=glance)

dostogirl,

 I read this book about a year before I went to Russia. I did find some good information in it about Russians in general and their outlook on things but also the book is very outdated in a lot of ways. For a newbie it is an informative read but not to be taken as gospel.

Ken
Title: woman are women
Post by: Son of Clyde on January 04, 2006, 06:29:42 AM
A man I know who takes regular trips to Ukraine told me my wife would move here and become Americanized within a short time like every other RW.

This couldn't be further from the truth. She refuses to abandon her old ways.

From the "milk mushroom" to her "Ukraine medicals" she is reluctant to accept our doctors or their methods of handling patients. She really hates waiting in doctor's offices and being shuffled around. Waiting in line is a way of life where I live.

The only thing she seems to enjoy very much is shopping.

Many of the plans I had for the holidays backfired. The boy thinks Christmas lights are "gay" and he does not share my interests in music and swing dancing. My wife prefers to dance in a Discoteque where she can do her own thing without a partner.
Title: woman are women
Post by: KenC on January 04, 2006, 07:37:59 AM
Vaughn,

In other words:  Grow up before you go to Russia.

Dostogirl,

Everyone's different.  There are a lot of things that my wife was quick to adapt to.  Like she was driving a car on her own after just a few months here.  And a lot depends upon how the RW was raised.  My wife was heavily influenced by her grandparents.

Clyde,

Why don't you post things about your step son on the other thread about him?

KenC
Title: woman are women
Post by: Admin on January 04, 2006, 07:43:33 AM
[user=130]Son of Clyde[/user] wrote:
Quote
A man I know who takes regular trips to Ukraine told me my wife would move here and become Americanized within a short time like every other RW.

This couldn't be further from the truth. She refuses to abandon her old ways.

From the "milk mushroom" to her "Ukraine medicals" she is reluctant to accept our doctors or their methods of handling patients. She really hates waiting in doctor's offices and being shuffled around.Waiting in line is a way of life where I live.

The only thing she seems to enjoy very much is shopping.

Many of the plans I had for the holidays backfired. The boy thinks Christmas lights are "gay" and he does not share my interests in music and swing dancing. My wife prefers to dance in a Discoteque where she can do her own thing without a partner.


Oh, but Clyde - the difference is merely in the amount of time. I assure you that in the not too distant future, you WILL notice the undeniable, and perfectly normal, transition of your wife from being a Russian immigrant to America - to a Russian woman now living in America - to an American woman originally from Russia. While true that some aspects of her character are indelibly impressed by her culture and life experiences - just as it is in us all - the environment has a HUGE impact, and she will change. Guaranteed. It is only a matter of time. Some may take longer than others - but they will ALL eventually transition to take on more and more characteristics of their environment - it is perfectly natural and something would be seriously amiss if it does NOT occur.

- Dan
Title: woman are women
Post by: catzenmouse on January 04, 2006, 07:52:29 AM
Quote from: Dan
Oh, but Clyde - the difference is merely in the amount of time. I assure you that in the not too distant future, you WILL notice the undeniable, and perfectly normal, transition of your wife from being a Russian immigrant to America - to a Russian woman now living in America - to an American woman originally from Russia. While true that some aspects of her character are indelibly impressed by her culture and life experiences - just as it is in us all - the environment has a HUGE impact, and she will change. Guaranteed. It is only a matter of time. Some may take longer than others - but they will ALL eventually transition to take on more and more characteristics of their environment - it is perfectly natural and something would be seriously amiss if it does NOT occur.

- Dan

Nooooo! Say it ain't so Champ, say it ain't so! :D;):D

Truly though, some things I hope she does change/adjust to and some things I hope she never loses.

I have never seen such a frugal person in my life. She simply will not spend money on something unless she absolutly needs it. In the year+ she's been her she has bought 4 pairs of shoes (1 high heel, 1 running, 1 walking, and 1 casual soft sole for work), 1 coat, 1 pair of jeans, 2 or 3 pants for work, a couple of shirts for work, and a few undergarments. I easily spend more money on her than she would ever consider spending on herself and when I do she wants to pay me for it. Believe me, I am NOT complaining about this but it just amazes me how good she is at this.

And I hope she NEVER loses that Beautiful accent!

Ken
Title: woman are women
Post by: dostogirl on January 04, 2006, 09:09:57 AM
Quote from: catzenmouse
You should read this book, will help you to understand a lot why she does it :D:

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0781808324/qid=1136338095/sr=8-1/ref=pd_bbs_1/103-9995929-7856669?n=507846&s=books&v=glance (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0781808324/qid=1136338095/sr=8-1/ref=pd_bbs_1/103-9995929-7856669?n=507846&s=books&v=glance)

dostogirl,

I read this book about a year before I went to Russia. I did find some good information in it about Russians in general and their outlook on things but also the book is very outdated in a lot of ways. For a newbie it is an informative read but not to be taken as gospel.

Ken
[/quote]It's outdated (though I think I've read a newer version of it), but even after almost 7 years with my husband I still find it pretty helpful in terms of understanding each other's cultural differences.
Title: woman are women
Post by: dostogirl on January 04, 2006, 09:13:12 AM
Quote from: catzenmouse


And I hope she NEVER loses that Beautiful accent!

Ken
I lost mine a while ago. No more jokes and fun times about how I pronounced something :(
Title: woman are women
Post by: Son of Clyde on January 04, 2006, 09:59:35 AM
I love when I phone her before I leave work and she says "Honey, where is you?"

She has learned a lot of new words and I hope she never loses the cute way she says them.

Maybe I am wrong for not correcting her grammer right now.

I like the way she speaks.
Title: woman are women
Post by: Ste on January 04, 2006, 10:09:47 AM
[user=130]Son of Clyde[/user] wrote:
Quote
I love when I phone her before I leave work and she says "Honey, where is you?"

She has learned a lot of new words and I hope she never loses the cute way she says them.

Maybe I am wrong for not correcting her grammer right now.

I like the way she speaks.


We were having a laugh at Nadia's expence and she was getting a bit fed up with it, not annoyed, just a bit picked on!

She said "Why are you taking the piss from me?"  - so I thought, shall I correct her (she tells me to always correct her) to "why are you taking the piss OUT OF me?" or will that send her over the edge?

Dilemma!!!

Ste
Title: woman are women
Post by: BC on January 04, 2006, 10:27:02 AM
..while fluffing the bed covers..

"It is not I am..  It was you are!"

 
Title: woman are women
Post by: KenC on January 04, 2006, 10:49:16 AM
Quote from: Dan
Oh, but Clyde - the difference is merely in the amount of time. I assure you that in the not too distant future, you WILL notice the undeniable, and perfectly normal, transition of your wife from being a Russian immigrant to America - to a Russian woman now living in America - to an American woman originally from Russia. While true that some aspects of her character are indelibly impressed by her culture and life experiences - just as it is in us all - the environment has a HUGE impact, and she will change. Guaranteed. It is only a matter of time. Some may take longer than others - but they will ALL eventually transition to take on more and more characteristics of their environment - it is perfectly natural and something would be seriously amiss if it does NOT occur.

- Dan

This transition is so very true.  In our case it is even compounded by our move to California.  Not only has Lena transformed into an American woman from Russia, but now she also has that "California girl" thingy going too.  Quite interesting, really.  I have to say that I love the evolution.  Most of what we talk about here are very superficial traits i.e. accent, dress, daily habits, but the real root values that I loved and admired have not changed one little bit.

KenC
Title: woman are women
Post by: catzenmouse on January 04, 2006, 11:46:06 AM
Quote from: dostogirl
It's outdated (though I think I've read a newer version of it), but even after almost 7 years with my husband I still find it pretty helpful in terms of understanding each other's cultural differences.

dostogirl,

 I agree. There is a good amount of beneficial information here and I have given the book to others to read (most not involved in the FSUW/WM relationship) as they expressed an interest in learning more about the culture. I have another book called "The Russian Way" (I think thats the name anyway) that also has some good tidbits of knowledge in it.

 WHAT? You lost your accent?!?! Your poor husband....:D;):D

Ken
Title: woman are women
Post by: Aleksia on January 04, 2006, 01:29:53 PM
I think, no matter how many years do people live together, they will have cultural differences and I personally see it as a positive thing. It spices relationship, makes it more exciting and interesting.

No matter how many years you live in a new country, if you came to this country as a grown up person, you will keep many of the things from your "past life", you will have your own opinion about things in a new country  (both positive and negative).
Title: woman are women
Post by: dostogirl on January 04, 2006, 02:45:30 PM
Quote from: catzenmouse


WHAT? You lost your accent?!?! Your poor husband....:D;):D

Ken
I think he is partly guilty of helping me lose it :D
Title: woman are women
Post by: dostogirl on January 04, 2006, 02:47:39 PM
Quote from: Aleksia
I think, no matter how many years do people live together, they will have cultural differences
It's also important to see a difference between cultural dissimilarities and simply person's character, I think.
Title: woman are women
Post by: Turboguy on January 04, 2006, 03:25:23 PM
I am sure most of us would just ship you back and get a new one with an accent:D.  Actually that is one of my biggest complaints with one of my top prospects.  No Russian accent.  Darn, that is going to be sad if she turns out to be the one.
Title: woman are women
Post by: dostogirl on January 04, 2006, 03:35:31 PM
Quote from: Turboguy
I am sure most of us would just ship you back and get a new one with an accent:D.
Too late, got my green card :P
Title: woman are women
Post by: Turboguy on January 04, 2006, 04:10:15 PM
That is the story of my life.  A day late and a green card short.   Could I recommend Pimsleur's CD's about learning Russian,  Maybe you can get it back.   Maybe you can humor him and say something once in a while like "Can vee go to the store"
Title: woman are women
Post by: KenC on January 04, 2006, 05:32:44 PM
Turbo,

Can't you get anything right?  You don't ask:

Maybe you can humor him and say something once in a while like "Can vee go to the store"

Instead you have them say:

"I want to kill that moose and squirrel"!:dude:

KenC
Title: woman are women
Post by: Oosik on January 10, 2006, 10:44:03 AM
Quote from: albert
...Its all in the economics. If and when the economics improves substantially in the FSU as a whole (not just for a few as it already has), then we won't be able to aspire to the best the FSU has to offer...



That helps, but until the male:female ratio changes enough to change the dynamics of their relationships, they will still want us, just not as much maybe. I gave my fiance foot rubs daily, she swears only 1/1000 Ukrainian men would. I do several other things (ahem) that she swears only 1/1000 UM would do for their women. I have seen how rude the men are to women in public, I can imagine how rude they are in private. Imagine a woman opening a door to go into a building, and men shove past her to go in first with their hands in their pockets, not slowing down, not afraid to bump her out of the way. Imagine women accepting this because they have to. Manners will only change there when the men have to compete for the women, and until manners change, we have a huge leg up.

Regarding the best they have to offer, dude, the average that they have to offer is as good as the best the US has to offer. You only have to walk down the street and run the time honored "doability test" (would I do her). The count is way higher in Russia and UA than in any public place I have been in 20 years, and I have yet to experience a good warm summer day there.
Title: woman are women
Post by: Bruno on January 10, 2006, 12:22:04 PM
Quote from: Oosik
That helps, but until the male:female ratio changes enough to change the dynamics of their relationships, they will still want us, just not as much maybe

Oosik, these ratio male:female is only propaganda from some marriage agency... if you read the direct number, yes, you have more women that men in Russia... but below 50 year, the ratio men/women is around 1...

This is direct related to the medium life time... 54 year old for men and 72 year old for women.... only if you hunt women over 50 year old, you have more women that men...

MOB business publish statistic without detail and analyse... it is in the interest of the business...

Some people here cannot imagine how are manipulate statistic... make your own research... the ratio male:female is sh!t for the majority of us who search women below 50 year old...

 
Title: woman are women
Post by: Oosik on January 10, 2006, 12:55:12 PM
My fiance told me as we were walking down the street. She first referred to Chernigov as a city of brides, and gave me the ratio herself. I don't know the exact explanation of the ratio, but when I talk to women of 21 through 26 who get choked up talking about their slim chances for being loved and married, when I see their eyes get wet, and we weren't even on a date, I have to believe they know better than you.

I'm telling you guys, in Chernigov at least, these girls ACHE for someone to love.
Title: woman are women
Post by: Bruno on January 10, 2006, 01:53:26 PM
Quote from: Oosik

All Russian women seem to have a strong desire to have children. If your lady is less than forty years old, she will definitely want to have at least one child to feel complete in her family. If she already has a child or children, she would probably kill to protect them. Do yourself a favor; don't get in the middle of this dynamic!

It is possible to compare a Russian mother with a mother wolf. She is ready to suffer and to protect her children even if she forgets about herself and is in danger of her own life. ...

The life of a Russian woman would be considered like being defective to some extent if she did not become a mother. It is very important for Russian women to have one child at least.

Issues of children fall into three basic areas: her children, your children, and future children. The conversations a man has with his Russian lady about children are some of the most important discussions on the way to a relationship. Children and child rearing is an integral part of marriage. Relationships get complicated, and step relationships get more complicated than most. Both parties should spend a significant amount of time understanding their own feelings and learning about they partners attitudes in this area.


 

So, the ratio men-women is some propaganda, the main goal is the futur of own children ( bad FSU economie )... if you are ready to be a good father, you can have a long and happy life with your ukrainian women...

Since your girlfriend life in little city, she have not so much choice about a good husband... this don't meen that it is not enough men, this mean that it is not enough men who have the financial power to be a good husband AND good father...

PS: some can find that i am saying thing differently that before but since that i am not more a agency owner, i am more free to say what i think and what i have learn... be agency owner was a valuable experience to know what think really FSU women... Only a few here ( by example my ennemy JB ) know the "false" propaganda that agency use for attract client... 
Title: woman are women
Post by: KenC on January 10, 2006, 02:06:32 PM
Bruno,

It may be propaganda that is offered up on agency sites, but if the women of Russia believe it, it has the same affect as if it were true.  I know my wife firmly believed it to be true (that there was a serious shortage of RM) also.  I also don't think that RW are getting the propaganda from agencies either.  It is common "knowledge" or better yet common "misinformation" among RW.  Their "perceived reality" is what is important not some graphs and charts you googled.

KenC
Title: woman are women
Post by: Oosik on January 10, 2006, 02:09:52 PM
You have yet to address the point that my comments were specific to Chernigov.

Many of the men have left. Maybe they are in Kiev, in the military, maybe those that served in the USSR military chose to go to Russia, who knows.

The men that are here treat the women badly in Chernigov. If they were "out of the market" for a wife for merely financial reasons, it seems that they would make up for a lack of funds by kissing their feet. Their behavior is the behavior of men with an oversupply of desirable women. I know many people don't truly understand how free markets work, but the behavior of their men can only be explained that way.
Title: woman are women
Post by: BC on January 10, 2006, 02:19:55 PM
When talking about a smaller city there are a lot of men who work elsewhere, spending from 1 to 3 months or even more away from 'home'.


Title: woman are women
Post by: Bruno on January 10, 2006, 02:36:59 PM
Quote from: Oosik
You have yet to address the point that my comments were specific to Chernigov.

Many of the men have left. Maybe they are in Kiev, in the military, maybe those that served in the USSR military chose to go to Russia, who knows.

The men that are here treat the women badly in Chernigov. If they were "out of the market" for a wife for merely financial reasons, it seems that they would make up for a lack of funds by kissing their feet. Their behavior is the behavior of men with an oversupply of desirable women. I know many people don't truly understand how free markets work, but the behavior of their men can only be explained that way.

Why do you think that several agency have interest in more litttle city... of course, a men is more able to risk find the better revenue in a big city...

A FSU men will try to find money in big city... a FSU women from little city have not so much opportunity ( except prostitution but it is a low % )...

So, the ratio men/women will be lower in little city... but the % of women able to pay a internet communication will be lower in little city too... of course, the agency allow women to post ads and receive e-mail from free... but this only for the very young one and very sexy... business first...

What is the mean of free market if you are not able to access the market... you have a lot of good FSU women in little city but you are not able to access them ( except with local newpapers ads )... of course, with time, the local pool of rated 10 girl will lower and agency will adapt... but never forget that business agency don't wish that you marry... a marriage is the end of the money flow... they wish that you communicate a lot, it is what bring money...

In you case, you have choose little place and you was lucky... but if i good remember your trip report, it was not the same situation in kiev, a big city... how much potential groom are ready to go in little unknow city... not a lot... i don't critic your way... only it is not the usual one... but i think that it is the good one !!! Not everybody is the dating "Indina Jones" but this have allow you to find your treasure...

In any case, i wish you good luck !!!

 
Title: woman are women
Post by: Bruno on January 10, 2006, 02:48:32 PM
Quote from: KenC
I know my wife firmly believed it to be true (that there was a serious shortage of RM) also.

It is not a shortage of RM but a shortage of valuable RM for build family... if it is one thing that RW value in American man, it is the responsability in a family... several RM flee these responsability but not a AM...

Of course, if your RW is from the middle of Siberia, it is long time that men have flee to better place ( big city )... and the shortage of RM is real...

Never forget that russia is 11 time zone... if you are not able to find the desired women in russia, you will never find the right women... several speak over RW mentality but a moscow women is not like a siberian woman, not like a vladivostok women... I have experience with european side Rw ( maximum caucase ) but russian offert a loot of choise... and several men limit themself to easy part ( european side )...

 
Title: woman are women
Post by: KenC on January 10, 2006, 04:19:58 PM
Quote from: Bruno
KenC
Title: woman are women
Post by: Bruno on January 10, 2006, 04:42:52 PM
Quote from: KenC
KenC
[/quote]
These time, it have nothing too make with google... of course i have not idea about what the demographics are in your wife's hometow since i don't know your wife hometown !!!

And before begin be insulting, don't forget that like you have yourself say before, you case is not the rule but the exception... i write generaly, in the goal to reach the more case on these forum... i try to explain general case and not your particular one... so, before speak about my "jibberish", don't forget your previous words in other post who explain that your case is particular...

Of course, each case if particular but since the information on these forum is for a general audience, my reply will not be accurate at 100%... allow the initial poster of these topic to judge the validity for him and not for yourself...

I don't care of what you or your wife thing... since your case it not the mainly case... a exepcion is not a rule... and i try to serve the majority of members here... for special and specific case, PM me and i will help ONLY IF POSSIBLE...
Title: woman are women
Post by: TigerPaws on January 10, 2006, 05:03:12 PM
[color="#0000ff"][size="4"]My sister in law is visiting us here in the Bahamas she is a very attractive and  intelligent 25 year old living and working in Moscow. She lives alone because  there is a real shortage of single, available men who are genuinely interested  in having a traditional family and home life, sure there are plenty of bums,  leeches, druggies, alcoholics and other mostly undesirable men. There are a lot  of married men with 2, 3 even 4 mistresses because they are wealthy, many of her  friends are married to unfaithful husbands but because the choices are limited  they stay, wife abuse is all too common and the authorities just look the other  way.[/size][/color] [color="#0000ff"][size="4"] Statistics only tell part of the  story, all too many men are not interested in getting married or of having a  quiet life and family which is what my sister in law has come to  understand.[/size][/color]
Title: woman are women
Post by: Oosik on January 10, 2006, 05:03:36 PM
The problem is, KenC and I both made statements regarding our respective darling's hometowns, and you used general rules to try and tell us we were full of beans. Thank you for your general knowledge. But don't tell us that what we know from experience is BS.
Title: woman are women
Post by: Bruno on January 10, 2006, 05:18:26 PM
Oosik, I don't say it is BS... read the post of tiger... it is not a problem of ratio men/women but more a problem of potential valuable husband and father...

Same if you are from Alaska, RW can have interest in you because of your stable situation ( what they call financial secure : don't mean rich but security ), of your respect of family (children )...

What is BS is say that it is not enough men in russia for the russian women... this is only true for older women... not the young one... not that several russian men are not valuable men for marriage is a other problem... don't mix the problem... 
Title: woman are women
Post by: Oosik on January 10, 2006, 05:28:44 PM
Bruno, is it possible that there are cities w/i these two countries that have demographic anomalities? Some cities are known far and wide as cities with such an imbalance. When I was in Petropavlovsk-Kamchatskiy, I had a 16 year old RW tell me that her sister was moving to Ivanovo, and she used the term City Of Brides, and stated some horrible ratio of women to men. She did not learn it from agencies, there are none in P-K. Chernigov is also locally known as the same. So stop using your statistics of total #s in Russia or total #s in Ukraine to describe every city in both countries. That's like using the average crime rate in the US and applying it to Grangeville Idaho or Provo Utah, it just doesn't work.
Title: woman are women
Post by: TigerPaws on January 10, 2006, 05:33:57 PM
[color="blue"][size="4"] Oosik is right I have been to cities of 40,000 to 60,000 people where there were NO available men between 17 and 60, yet there were SO many beautiful women. The men were all gone either to the military or off to the oil fields and big cities to work.
[/size][/color]
Title: woman are women
Post by: Bruno on January 10, 2006, 06:14:52 PM
Quote from: Oosik
Oosik is right I have been to cities of 40,000 to 60,000 people where there were NO available men between 17 and 60, yet there were SO many beautiful women.[/size][/color][/font]

Tiger, the population of Chernigov is around 310.000 people on 30 sq/miles... i don't really call this a little city...

 
Title: woman are women
Post by: KenC on January 10, 2006, 06:20:25 PM
Quote from: Bruno

I don't care of what you or your wife thing... since your case it not the mainly case... a exepcion is not a rule... and i try to serve the majority of members here... for special and specific case, PM me and i will help ONLY IF POSSIBLE...
Do you mean "think"?  Try it sometime.  You again are confusing what was said regarding age differences.  That does not apply here to this topic.  Oosik, Tigerpaws and I have given specific examples of 3 or 4 different cities which you try to refute with national statistics gleaned from your google search.  National averages need not be applicable to individual cities.  Hell, they may not even apply to ANY city.  You think you serve the whole of humanity with your invalid and inapplicable information?  I have news for you: You are not the only one with access to google.

KenC
Title: woman are women
Post by: TigerPaws on January 10, 2006, 06:25:29 PM
[color="blue"][size="4"]KenC,

 Brovo :clapping: Brovo
[/size][/color]
Title: woman are women
Post by: Bruno on January 10, 2006, 06:33:44 PM
Quote from: KenC
Do you mean "think"?  Try it sometime.  You again are confusing what was said regarding age differences.  That does not apply here to this topic.  Oosik, Tigerpaws and I have given specific examples of 3 or 4 different cities which you try to refute with national statistics gleaned from your google search.  National averages need not be applicable to individual cities.  Hell, they may not even apply to ANY city.  You think you serve the whole of humanity with your invalid and inapplicable information?  I have news for you: You are not the only one with access to google.

KenC

Can you read... just up your post, i have post the general stastitic for the Oosik lady city... and these data are from 2005, certainly more accurate that the meaning of your lady who live in USA from several year...

Of course, they are official census of Ukraine and it seem that some here don't believe result from local gouverment...

And yes, everybody have access to google ( or other search engine ) but several are too lazy for make the search... same when i publish a link, some make comment without check the link... too lazy for make a "click"...

If you have follow news, you have seem that situation have change a lot the last year in FSU... and meaning from one people is only a meaning, not the reality... I don't think that your wife have count how much men and women was in her city...

 

 
Title: woman are women
Post by: jb on January 10, 2006, 06:54:06 PM
[color="blue"][size="4"]
Quote
KenC,       Brovo :clapping: Brovo
[/font][/size][/color]
[color="blue"][size="4"]
[/size][/color]LOL,,, I think he meant "bravo",,, not; "brovo", I swear, higher educaton isn't what it used to be.
Title: woman are women
Post by: TigerPaws on January 10, 2006, 07:00:35 PM
[color="blue"][size="4"]Bruno,

 My sister in law is with us now and though she now lives in Moscow she still has family and an apartment [/size][size="+1"][size="4"]in [/size]Ruzayevka Russia (Mordvinia) which is very near [/size][/color]
[color="blue"][size="+1"]       Saransk. Her information is as of 2 weeks ago and she says there are very few if any available men in either city, as I said sure you can find the bums and undesireables but what woman wants those. The pool of available men even in Moscow which is where she LIVES NOW is very bad, Hells bells she even has a difficult time finding a date let alone someone who is interested in settling down.
 Forget your silly stats this information [/size]
[/color][color="blue"][size="+1"]is [/size][/color][color="blue"][size="+1"]current and[/size][/color][color="blue"][size="+1"] NOT found over the internet, try going there for a change
[/size]
[/color]
Title: woman are women
Post by: TigerPaws on January 10, 2006, 07:02:34 PM
Quote from: jb
KenC,       Brovo :clapping: Brovo
[/font][/size][/color]
[color="blue"][size="4"]
[/size][/color]LOL,,, I think he meant "bravo",,, not; "brovo", I swear, higher educaton isn't what it used to be.

:arguing: [color="blue"][size="4"]So what try typing on a PDA in the dark and see how well you do. Try adding something constructive to the discussion for a change.[/size][/color]
[/quote]
Title: woman are women
Post by: jb on January 10, 2006, 07:09:55 PM
LOL,,, LOL,,, your the freakin' millionare, buy a real computer...
Title: woman are women
Post by: TigerPaws on January 10, 2006, 07:22:16 PM
Quote from: jb
LOL,,, LOL,,, your the freakin' millionare, buy a real computer...


[color="blue"][size="4"] Why should I bother a PDA is very portable, easy to use, when I drop it overboard or it gets wet (I am on my 3rd) they are easly replaced. We have a couple of lap tops which are great but bulky http://www.getac.com/pages/home.html and a real pain to wait for the machine to boot and such.
 For all their limitations PDA's work just fine for us.
[/size][/color]
Title: woman are women
Post by: jb on January 10, 2006, 07:39:02 PM
TP, I don't think using a PDA is your problem.
Title: woman are women
Post by: TigerPaws on January 10, 2006, 07:41:23 PM
Quote from: jb
TP, I don't think using a PDA is your problem.

[color="blue"][size="4"]LoL it is not worth a reply :)[/size][/color]
Title: woman are women
Post by: Oosik on January 10, 2006, 07:47:17 PM
JB you must need testosterone shots, you seem intent on starting catfights tonight.
Title: woman are women
Post by: TigerPaws on January 10, 2006, 07:54:55 PM
Quote from: Oosik
JB you must need testosterone shots, you seem intent on starting catfights tonight.

[color="blue"][size="4"]Nothing new about tonight Oosik.[/size][/color]
Title: woman are women
Post by: jb on January 10, 2006, 07:58:03 PM
TigerPaws knows that I think he's a blowhard and a troll, no big news there.

Unlike others who frequent these boards, I have not changed my spots a  dozen times over the years, I'm still the same old lovable, straight  shootin', "jb".   Like it or lump it.

FWIW, I'm up this late playing nursemaid to a sick RW wife, in between  administering meds on a regular basis, reading this crap is high  entertainment for me.
Title: woman are women
Post by: KenC on January 10, 2006, 08:05:00 PM
Quote from: Bruno
KenC

 
Title: woman are women
Post by: TigerPaws on January 10, 2006, 08:07:29 PM
Quote from: jb
TigerPaws knows that I think he's a blowhard and a troll, no big news there.

Unlike others who frequent these boards, I have not changed my spots a  dozen times over the years, I'm still the same old lovable, straight  shootin', "jb".   Like it or lump it.

FWIW, I'm up this late playing nursemaid to a sick RW wife, in between  administering meds on a regular basis, reading this crap is high  entertainment for me.

[color="#0000ff"][size="4"]
 What you think jb is completely irrelevant, at least I attempt to offer  constructive suggestions and not directly or indirectly attack people.  Disagreement about issues is one thing calling people names and leveling  accusations is unwarrented and unnecessary to any discussion. [/size]
[/color] [color="#0000ff"][size="4"] Try offering something constructive  to the discussion.[/size][/color]
Title: woman are women
Post by: Admin on January 10, 2006, 08:12:25 PM
OK Guys - enough of the testosterone splashing about.

Let's get back on track.

- Dan
Title: woman are women
Post by: jb on January 10, 2006, 08:29:23 PM
[color="#0000ff"][size="4"]
Quote
Try offering something constructive to the discussion
[/size][/font][/color]

I very often do, you just can't read. 

It's just that uncovering a troll is so much fun.  You try so hard  to convince folks you are the ultra rich,  out sailing the high  seas in your big boat, yet you forget some of us are actually literate  in todays technology.  You'd have to be tucked up so tightly to a  wireless modem 24/7 to be able to post here all the time, or be  connected hard wired to the cable that you couldn't get anywhere near  the water.  You just don't come off credible to me.

 I've googled "TigerPaws/ Boats", etc., . BTW,you have quite a  history out there on the web, and I've read your posts to the boating  boards, like:
http://www.boatered.com/forum/sitenews.asp  Often times, good old  "seaquest" sings a very different song there, than he does here.   TigerPaws and Seaquest are the same persona, aren't they?  So  you'll forgive me when I get on your case.  I suspect you are a  liar and a fraud, plain and simple.  How much plainer can I be?
Title: woman are women
Post by: Admin on January 10, 2006, 08:37:59 PM
Quote from: jb
Try offering something constructive to the discussion
[/size][/font][/color]

I very often do, you just can't read.

It's just that uncovering a troll is so much fun. You try so hard  to convince folks you are the ultra rich, out sailing the high  seas in your big boat, yet you forget some of us are actually literate  in todays technology. You'd have to be tucked up so tightly to a  wireless modem 24/7 to be able to post here all the time, or be  connected hard wired to the cable that you couldn't get anywhere near  the water. You just don't come off credible to me.

I've googled "TigerPaws/ Boats", etc., . BTW,you have quite a  history out there on the web, and I've read your posts to the boating  boards, like:
http://www.boatered.com/forum/sitenews.asp Often times, good old  "seaquest" sings a very different song there, than he does here.  TigerPaws and Seaquest are the same persona, aren't they? So  you'll forgive me when I get on your case. I suspect you are a  liar and a fraud, plain and simple. How much plainer can I be?
[/quote]

jb,

Oosik and TigerPaws are BOTH in the chat room RIGHT NOW. Maybe go join them?

- Dan
Title: woman are women
Post by: jb on January 10, 2006, 08:40:58 PM
Frankly, no, Dan, here we are talking about honesty, much the same as  we were talking about multiple IDs on the other thread.   I  think it is germane as to who can be trusted and who can not.   What advise is to be viewed with respect and who do you discard.   If a person lies on one board and then expects to be taken at face  value on another, it is really straining the limits.

I think it's time to air out the troll factor, we have an infection of a sort, and the board needs a shot of penicillin.
Title: woman are women
Post by: TigerPaws on January 11, 2006, 04:31:35 AM
[size="4"] And yet more words of wisdom, try saying something [/size][color="#0000ff"][size="4"]constructive to the discussion.[/size][/color]
Title: woman are women
Post by: MandM on January 11, 2006, 06:43:24 AM
Quote from: jb
I'm still the same old lovable, straight shootin', "jb".   Like it or lump it.

I never thought I would say anything like this but I think I have grown to love you jb! Yep, definitely straight shooting and loveable.... :)
Title: Re: woman are women
Post by: 2tallbill on September 04, 2021, 12:32:13 PM
Bruno,

It may be propaganda that is offered up on agency sites, but if the women of Russia believe it, it has the same affect as if it were true.  I know my wife firmly believed it to be true (that there was a serious shortage of RM) also.  I also don't think that RW are getting the propaganda from agencies either.  It is common "knowledge" or better yet common "misinformation" among RW.  Their "perceived reality" is what is important not some graphs and charts you googled.

KenC

Perception creates reality
Title: Re: woman are women
Post by: tfcrew on September 04, 2021, 03:43:31 PM
I am starting to believe what has been said over and over on these boards, that women are the same all over the world. A FSU woman is probably as beautiful as any I have seen but deep down her personality is like any woman.
I am learning that a strong willed, domineering woman could be the same in any country. We have our share right here in the U S of A.
Nice to have these RWD tales from the crypt. I don't necessarily disagree with this lead post [I note that as usual, others digressed]---
Quote
women are the same all over the world
This is like saying they all have arms and legs. Specifically, there are the superficial [shallow] and then there are the devoted, the dedicated, the steadfast. If you want some 'companionship'... click a http-hookup.com. There are gobs of those and you don't need to travel abroad. The latter is like gold...they are where you find them. Don't marry [as a matter of course] a country, marry a lady.