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Author Topic: woman are women  (Read 14445 times)

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Offline Son of Clyde

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woman are women
« on: December 06, 2005, 09:07:21 AM »
I am starting to believe what has been said over and over on these boards, that women are the same all over the world.

A FSU woman is probably as beautiful as any I have seen but deep down her personality is like any woman.

I am learning that a strong willed, domineering woman could be the same in any country. We have our share right here in the U S of A.

Offline Bruno

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« Reply #1 on: December 06, 2005, 11:34:37 AM »
Welcome in the Club :?...:D:D:D

Offline BC

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« Reply #2 on: December 06, 2005, 12:33:25 PM »
[user=130]Son of Clyde[/user] wrote:
Quote
I am starting to believe what has been said over and over on these boards, that women are the same all over the world....
Quote
I am learning that a strong willed, domineering woman could be the same in any country. We have our share right here in the U S of A.

It's all in chapter 9 - 'Whips and Chains' section of the instruction manual.

(written by jb of course!)

:D

Offline Albert

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« Reply #3 on: December 06, 2005, 02:42:23 PM »
And Clyde, you could go even futher.  FSU women can be as ugly as any seen before.  FSU women are no smarter or dumber than any other.  FSU women are no more educated or cultured than any other.

Women are women the world over.  There are good, bad, ugly, beautiful, smart, dumb, etc., in every country.  For every beautiful, smart, educated, cultured woman you can find in FSU, there are several identical ones right here in USA.

The only difference is that average guys can aspire to the best the FSU has to offer but cannot aspire to the best the USA has to offer.

Its all in the economics.  If and when the economics improves substantially in the FSU as a whole (not just for a few as it already has), then we won't be able to aspire to the best the FSU has to offer.

So enjoy (or suffer, as the case may be) for the time being.


Offline dostogirl

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« Reply #4 on: December 06, 2005, 07:52:10 PM »
Well I guess I have to say that men are men... :D And, as Evtushenko said, the best men are women ;)

Offline jb

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« Reply #5 on: December 07, 2005, 06:04:03 AM »
BC,

I didn't write the book entirely by myself, many others deserve much  credit for tirelessly contributing their time and experience to chapter  and verse.

Offline jb

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« Reply #6 on: January 03, 2006, 04:52:28 AM »
I had hoped when Clyde started this thread that it might lead to  something useful and valuable that a newbie might actually learn  something from.  I was kinda dissappointed when it fizzeled.   

Living with a Russian, actually two of them, along with constant  association with other Russians and ethnic Russian Ukrainians both on  the phone and at social gathering allows some of us old married guys a  glimpse into the so called Russian soul that many a newbie is light  years away from.    There is a mistique about them, but  there is no mystery about RWs, there is sweetness, and also a dark  side.   PMS is not an unknown quality among RWs, as well as a  number of other items that support the notion that "Women are  Women".  I thought we might start a list of traits we married guys  have seen.  I'm not thinking about the need to be dressed before  going out of the house, that's been discussed to death.  I'm  asking about deep personality issues, those things the MOB myth doesn't  deal with or even might be afraid to talk about.

For example: has anybody else noticed that there always seems to be a  huge gap between the "planning" and the "execution" when dealing with  the future events?  I've discussed this with some other married  men and we wonder if all those years under Soviet mind control didn't  somehow remove some part of the creative side of the Russian  soul.  Every Russian woman I've met so far has a great "executer"  and has a "can-do" personality, but they seem to be terrible planners,  always placing the responsibility for that on someone else's  shoulders. 

Another thought that has crossed my mind is that to be a good husband  to a RW, to a large extent you must also be a father repacement  figure.  And no, I'm not bringing up age gaps here, what I'm  saying is that Russian women seem to be happy, comfortable and feel  most secure if there is an authority/father figure around.  I'm  assuming that within the older, very comfortable, Russian family mold,  the dad was the boss and as husband you are sorta slipping into the  role.  There are some side effects to this issue that I'd be happy  to see discussed, as in the relationship between happy playful moods as  opposed to when she turns into the worry wart and the grouch.  Is  it possible this revolves around how secure she might feel?

I think you can see the drift, as in: "it's easy to love the kitten,  but hard to like the cat". with a bit of effort, this thread could  easily become a decent learning thread.

Offline BC

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« Reply #7 on: January 03, 2006, 05:38:28 AM »
Good idea jb..

Just off the top of my head:

Admitting faults or mistakes seems quite difficult, as head of the household (figuratively speaking) when something goes wrong it is most definitely MY fault :D.  Takes some getting used to.

Yes planning..  used to be 'taboo' here. Has changed though over time.  I think this has to do with keeping low expectations.. quite reasonable attitude in RU where many wants simply are not or cannot be realized.  Here with more possibilities (financial etc) the desire to plan ahead increases.. watch out though usually a goal is stated and the real 'planning' and collecting resources to achieve are up to you:?

Comparitive shopping seems to be a difficult concept.. 'Name brands' and 'quality' have a lot of pull.

When I'm working on a project around the house 'my way' is usually overruled and a 'better way' suggested.  After a couple of hefty arguments the most illogical solutions proposed actually worked out quite well..  never underestimate a RW.

more later as it pops up..





Offline Son of Clyde

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« Reply #8 on: January 03, 2006, 07:33:25 AM »
My two cents.

Read the tablets of stone.

I am realizing, to do this process correctly the guy should be earning around $100,000.00 a year (or more) to feel comfortable with a Russian wife AND child. My $62,000.00 seems like a mere pittance at times.

Dating a RW is not for entry level dating. This statement is pure gold.

I am learning by trial and error that much of what is written in the tablets of stone is the truth.

If you live in a trailor park and work at Burger King DO NOT PURSUE A RW.

If you are self centered and not willing to bend DO NOT PURSUE A RW.

If you are content to live a simple life with few luxories DO NOT PURSUE A RW.

If you are lazy and would rather someone else do the work DO NOT PURSUE A RW

Actually, my wife insists on doing 90% of the housework and the kitchen is HERS. She accepts that I work hard for the money I earn. We do all clean house together many times. It takes much less time also.

I told my wife yesterday we are quite different, she is outgoing and I am quiet and reserved. She said she likes this quality and would not be with me if I was agressive and domineering.

The problem I am having is that she is not afraid to make a scene in a store and when she does this I usually want to walk away from her. I will only make a scene if I am driven to the point of anger and there is no other way around it.

My RW marriage is the most difficult thing I have ever done and it makes the visa process seem easy in comparison.  The real work starts when she arrives at the airport.

Happy New Year everyone.

« Last Edit: January 03, 2006, 07:42:00 AM by Son of Clyde »

Offline catzenmouse

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« Reply #9 on: January 03, 2006, 07:40:52 AM »
[user=130]Son of Clyde[/user] wrote:
Quote
My RW marriage is the most difficult thing I have ever done and it makes the visa process seem easy in comparison.  The real work starts when she arrives at the airport.

This needs to be added to the Tablets of Stone! No matter how much time you may spend with her in the FSU there is no real way to prepare for all that happens when she arrives. This is truly the definition of a "Life Changing Expreience" in every possible way.

Ken

P.S. For what its worth SoC, I think you have made great strides forward in this relationship and in your personal life. Not easy things to do normally and especially so in a public forum situation.
"Marriage is that relation between man and woman in which the independence is equal, the dependence mutual, and the obligation reciprocal."
-- Louis K. Anspacher

Offline Ste

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« Reply #10 on: January 03, 2006, 07:56:36 AM »
Good topic, but I would like to ad the stereotype is different for the younger FSU woman maybe. Nad' was only 9 when USSR collapsed so all she can remeber really is turmoil, money changing value daily, prices going up.....

Not much Soviet thinking left in her....

But on the whole she's really not more difficult or different to live with than any other woman, but you have to remember that they are 6000-12000 miles away from home, and although it might not show, it simmers underneath. That's true for any nationality though.

Friends here joke with her about her Russian-ness, "can you sell me some drugs", "did you bribe people to come here" etc, some friends I know but Northern wit can be a bit biting and she takes it in good stead. But after the twentieth time..........

On the reverse her parents seem like my parents and I just cannot imagine them relocating 6000 miles or wanting to visit us her or changing much about their lives at all really....

Ste

Offline catzenmouse

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« Reply #11 on: January 03, 2006, 08:02:29 AM »
Quote from: Ste
Good topic, but I would like to ad the stereotype is different for the younger FSU woman maybe. Nad' was only 9 when USSR collapsed so all she can remeber really is turmoil, money changing value daily, prices going up.....

Not much Soviet thinking left in her....

But on the whole she's really not more difficult or different to live with than any other woman, but you have to remember that they are 6000-12000 miles away from home, and although it might not show, it simmers underneath. That's true for any nationality though.

Friends here joke with her about her Russian-ness, "can you sell me some drugs", "did you bribe people to come here" etc, some friends I know but Northern wit can be a bit biting and she takes it in good stead. But after the twentieth time..........

On the reverse her parents seem like my parents and I just cannot imagine them relocating 6000 miles or wanting to visit us her or changing much about their lives at all really....

Ste

The missing of home, family, language, foods, etc. is VERY big.

One thing that has begun to drive Elena nuts is that everyone (and I DO mean everyone!) asks her where she is from and if she likes it here. As she is working in a shop she sees a lot of different people each day. Now she just tells them she is from Richmond and enjoys the quizzical look on their faces...:D

Ken
"Marriage is that relation between man and woman in which the independence is equal, the dependence mutual, and the obligation reciprocal."
-- Louis K. Anspacher

Offline Son of Clyde

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« Reply #12 on: January 03, 2006, 12:10:30 PM »
I will have to lie back and refrain from posting too much personal stuff for awhile. I don't think what I posted recently is too bad but I want to make sure it is not seen by my family. She thinks our private lives should remain private and I agree with this.

Offline jb

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« Reply #13 on: January 03, 2006, 12:26:03 PM »
Clyde,

I've gotta admit,,, I never would have guessed a year ago I'd see such  wisdom coming from you.   After reading your post above I  have to think I can pass the torch over to you, maybe it's time for me  to retire.

Offline Son of Clyde

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« Reply #14 on: January 03, 2006, 12:31:17 PM »
jb,

I will say this for all to read.

I truly like you and your wisdom may be tough going down (for some of us) but you always try to speak the truth.

You are like the father image of RWD although there are not so many years difference in our ages.

Offline jb

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« Reply #15 on: January 03, 2006, 01:38:10 PM »
Clyde,

I'd prefer not to be seen as a "father figure",,, maybe more like an  old, wiser, smarter big brother, but certainly not a father.

I'm glad to see the progress you've made.  However, I think you  will have the same problems I, and others, have encountered as you  attempt to pass this wisdom on to the next class.  They will  probably not be any more receptive to this knowledge than you were when  you started down this path.  Honestly I some times felt I as if  was conducting a spelling bee for the deaf mutes, where I had to show  the word, then ask how to spell it.  It gets tiresome.

Good luck in your new career as top dog at the RWD.

Offline Turboguy

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« Reply #16 on: January 03, 2006, 02:14:17 PM »
Clyde, If jb passes the torch to you, you have to start eating nails for breakfast.  The shredded wheat just won't get you in the spirit :toocool:

Offline KenC

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« Reply #17 on: January 03, 2006, 03:19:30 PM »
Clyde?  Clyde?  Is that you?:dude:

Wow, who woulda thunk it!  Very very good post.  By George, I think he got it!

BC,
Quote

Yes planning..  used to be 'taboo' here. Has changed though over time.  I think this has to do with keeping low expectations.. quite reasonable attitude in RU where many wants simply are not or cannot be realized.

I have to agree with this.  When Lena first arrived, she not only didn't plan, but refused to plan so as not to be disappointed.  She had a thing about not getting her hopes up too high in order to avoid disappointment.  I looked at this as a very pessimistic outlook.  It was difficult for me because I was so optimistic.

I know we all had to be everything for our ladies when they first arrived, but after a while they need to stand on their own two feet.  I found myself saying "I am not resposible for your entertainment" quite a bit a few years ago.  It is almost a weening process from the times when you had to do everything for them.

KenC
You are a den of vipers and thieves-Andrew Jackson on banks
Banking establishments are more dangerous than standing armies-Thomas Jefferson

Offline dostogirl

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« Reply #18 on: January 03, 2006, 06:28:42 PM »
Quote from: KenC
 I looked at this as a very pessimistic outlook.  It was difficult for me because I was so optimistic.


You should read this book, will help you to understand a lot why she does it :D:

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0781808324/qid=1136338095/sr=8-1/ref=pd_bbs_1/103-9995929-7856669?n=507846&s=books&v=glance

Offline KenC

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« Reply #19 on: January 03, 2006, 06:45:38 PM »
Dostogirl,

After over seven years with my wife, I think I am a little past "Wedded Strangers."  But thanks any way.  Whether you understand the reasons why or not, a RW's pessimism can be a real downer.  Their fear of getting too excited about the future because it might put a hex on it is almost comical.

Anyone ever notice how RW become "big picture" people and let you handle the details?  I think this is what jb was saying.  I also think this is related to that "weening"process I spoke about.  The longer I am married to Lena, the dumber I become, forcing her to think for herself and do for herself.  She has to learn sometime as I will not always be here for her.  A good example is that she is at this very moment registering for her next semister at the University.  I am totally hands off of this process now.  No sense me cornering the market on frustration.:cool:

KenC
You are a den of vipers and thieves-Andrew Jackson on banks
Banking establishments are more dangerous than standing armies-Thomas Jefferson

Offline ConnerVT

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« Reply #20 on: January 03, 2006, 06:49:22 PM »
Quote from: jb
I'd prefer not to be seen as a "father figure",,,

Aw, Dad... Can I borrow the keys to the car tonight?...  :P

Offline Vaughn

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« Reply #21 on: January 03, 2006, 07:43:12 PM »
I've found that in three years stateside, my wife's level of self-confidence has increased tremendously. Born during
Krushchev's rule, she had plenty of time to learn and embody the limits encouraged by old Soviet standards. Never had she driven an automobile, nor was she encouraged to - absolutely no need. She was 37, divorced with a child, an English vocabulary consisting of "yes, no" and "goodbye" and decided NOBODY would ever notice her profile. She held a Masters and a very good job, yet local economics held her to "just getting by". She has blossomed here with respect to her potential for achievement.

Yeah, planning - what's that? I plan, she executes. At 22, she lost her father. We interact as husband and wife, but when she's having a rough day, I comfort her as a Dad would. She's still clueless about abstracts like deductibles, the Nasdaq and property tax, but is fluent in fuel consumption, savings accounts and credit reports. She distrusted banks - now she works for one. Years ago, savings meant stashing rubles in some hidey-hole.

When USCIS did not respond to our AOS application immediately, she regarded me suspiciously. When I was a younger man, I would have shown resentment - instead, I preached patience and understanding. Her Russian girlfriends didn't help the cause - they encouraged her to accompany me when I purchased Money Orders for the AOS process, as if I brought her here for a brief 6-month sleepover. Her trust in me was shaken, and my mind kept playing Let It Be.

I'd like to add to the tablets, comments welcome.

  If you harbor personal issues, and still conduct your interpersonal behavior much as you did as a very young man,work on those issues with yourself before subjecting a Russian/Ukrainian woman to them. Do you enjoy rescuing others? Be honest now - do you operate so as to gain approval from others, and love the gratification it brings? Have you a long history of relationship troubles, and expect a foreign bride to be the answer to those troubles? This is no miracle cure, my friend. These ladies, like ALL ladies, will NOT buy the facade.





                 
« Last Edit: January 03, 2006, 07:51:00 PM by Vaughn »

Offline dostogirl

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« Reply #22 on: January 03, 2006, 10:48:10 PM »
Quote from: KenC
Dostogirl,

After over seven years with my wife, I think I am a little past "Wedded Strangers." 
I'm a little surprized it takes her so long to get rid of negativism that she acquired in FSU. I think my first year with my husband (then a fiancee) was somewhat like that. Right now though I'm very different. I take care of myslef, my husband and al the detailes (if I remember all of them). :D

Offline catzenmouse

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« Reply #23 on: January 04, 2006, 05:47:02 AM »
Quote from: dostogirl
You should read this book, will help you to understand a lot why she does it :D:

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0781808324/qid=1136338095/sr=8-1/ref=pd_bbs_1/103-9995929-7856669?n=507846&s=books&v=glance

dostogirl,

 I read this book about a year before I went to Russia. I did find some good information in it about Russians in general and their outlook on things but also the book is very outdated in a lot of ways. For a newbie it is an informative read but not to be taken as gospel.

Ken
"Marriage is that relation between man and woman in which the independence is equal, the dependence mutual, and the obligation reciprocal."
-- Louis K. Anspacher

Offline Son of Clyde

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« Reply #24 on: January 04, 2006, 06:29:42 AM »
A man I know who takes regular trips to Ukraine told me my wife would move here and become Americanized within a short time like every other RW.

This couldn't be further from the truth. She refuses to abandon her old ways.

From the "milk mushroom" to her "Ukraine medicals" she is reluctant to accept our doctors or their methods of handling patients. She really hates waiting in doctor's offices and being shuffled around. Waiting in line is a way of life where I live.

The only thing she seems to enjoy very much is shopping.

Many of the plans I had for the holidays backfired. The boy thinks Christmas lights are "gay" and he does not share my interests in music and swing dancing. My wife prefers to dance in a Discoteque where she can do her own thing without a partner.

 

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