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Offline KenC

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« Reply #25 on: January 04, 2006, 07:37:59 AM »
Vaughn,

In other words:  Grow up before you go to Russia.

Dostogirl,

Everyone's different.  There are a lot of things that my wife was quick to adapt to.  Like she was driving a car on her own after just a few months here.  And a lot depends upon how the RW was raised.  My wife was heavily influenced by her grandparents.

Clyde,

Why don't you post things about your step son on the other thread about him?

KenC
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Offline Admin

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« Reply #26 on: January 04, 2006, 07:43:33 AM »
[user=130]Son of Clyde[/user] wrote:
Quote
A man I know who takes regular trips to Ukraine told me my wife would move here and become Americanized within a short time like every other RW.

This couldn't be further from the truth. She refuses to abandon her old ways.

From the "milk mushroom" to her "Ukraine medicals" she is reluctant to accept our doctors or their methods of handling patients. She really hates waiting in doctor's offices and being shuffled around.Waiting in line is a way of life where I live.

The only thing she seems to enjoy very much is shopping.

Many of the plans I had for the holidays backfired. The boy thinks Christmas lights are "gay" and he does not share my interests in music and swing dancing. My wife prefers to dance in a Discoteque where she can do her own thing without a partner.


Oh, but Clyde - the difference is merely in the amount of time. I assure you that in the not too distant future, you WILL notice the undeniable, and perfectly normal, transition of your wife from being a Russian immigrant to America - to a Russian woman now living in America - to an American woman originally from Russia. While true that some aspects of her character are indelibly impressed by her culture and life experiences - just as it is in us all - the environment has a HUGE impact, and she will change. Guaranteed. It is only a matter of time. Some may take longer than others - but they will ALL eventually transition to take on more and more characteristics of their environment - it is perfectly natural and something would be seriously amiss if it does NOT occur.

- Dan

Offline catzenmouse

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« Reply #27 on: January 04, 2006, 07:52:29 AM »
Quote from: Dan
Oh, but Clyde - the difference is merely in the amount of time. I assure you that in the not too distant future, you WILL notice the undeniable, and perfectly normal, transition of your wife from being a Russian immigrant to America - to a Russian woman now living in America - to an American woman originally from Russia. While true that some aspects of her character are indelibly impressed by her culture and life experiences - just as it is in us all - the environment has a HUGE impact, and she will change. Guaranteed. It is only a matter of time. Some may take longer than others - but they will ALL eventually transition to take on more and more characteristics of their environment - it is perfectly natural and something would be seriously amiss if it does NOT occur.

- Dan

Nooooo! Say it ain't so Champ, say it ain't so! :D;):D

Truly though, some things I hope she does change/adjust to and some things I hope she never loses.

I have never seen such a frugal person in my life. She simply will not spend money on something unless she absolutly needs it. In the year+ she's been her she has bought 4 pairs of shoes (1 high heel, 1 running, 1 walking, and 1 casual soft sole for work), 1 coat, 1 pair of jeans, 2 or 3 pants for work, a couple of shirts for work, and a few undergarments. I easily spend more money on her than she would ever consider spending on herself and when I do she wants to pay me for it. Believe me, I am NOT complaining about this but it just amazes me how good she is at this.

And I hope she NEVER loses that Beautiful accent!

Ken
"Marriage is that relation between man and woman in which the independence is equal, the dependence mutual, and the obligation reciprocal."
-- Louis K. Anspacher

Offline dostogirl

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« Reply #28 on: January 04, 2006, 09:09:57 AM »
Quote from: catzenmouse
You should read this book, will help you to understand a lot why she does it :D:

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0781808324/qid=1136338095/sr=8-1/ref=pd_bbs_1/103-9995929-7856669?n=507846&s=books&v=glance

dostogirl,

I read this book about a year before I went to Russia. I did find some good information in it about Russians in general and their outlook on things but also the book is very outdated in a lot of ways. For a newbie it is an informative read but not to be taken as gospel.

Ken
[/quote]It's outdated (though I think I've read a newer version of it), but even after almost 7 years with my husband I still find it pretty helpful in terms of understanding each other's cultural differences.

Offline dostogirl

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« Reply #29 on: January 04, 2006, 09:13:12 AM »
Quote from: catzenmouse


And I hope she NEVER loses that Beautiful accent!

Ken
I lost mine a while ago. No more jokes and fun times about how I pronounced something :(

Offline Son of Clyde

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« Reply #30 on: January 04, 2006, 09:59:35 AM »
I love when I phone her before I leave work and she says "Honey, where is you?"

She has learned a lot of new words and I hope she never loses the cute way she says them.

Maybe I am wrong for not correcting her grammer right now.

I like the way she speaks.

Offline Ste

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« Reply #31 on: January 04, 2006, 10:09:47 AM »
[user=130]Son of Clyde[/user] wrote:
Quote
I love when I phone her before I leave work and she says "Honey, where is you?"

She has learned a lot of new words and I hope she never loses the cute way she says them.

Maybe I am wrong for not correcting her grammer right now.

I like the way she speaks.


We were having a laugh at Nadia's expence and she was getting a bit fed up with it, not annoyed, just a bit picked on!

She said "Why are you taking the piss from me?"  - so I thought, shall I correct her (she tells me to always correct her) to "why are you taking the piss OUT OF me?" or will that send her over the edge?

Dilemma!!!

Ste

Offline BC

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« Reply #32 on: January 04, 2006, 10:27:02 AM »
..while fluffing the bed covers..

"It is not I am..  It was you are!"

 

Offline KenC

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« Reply #33 on: January 04, 2006, 10:49:16 AM »
Quote from: Dan
Oh, but Clyde - the difference is merely in the amount of time. I assure you that in the not too distant future, you WILL notice the undeniable, and perfectly normal, transition of your wife from being a Russian immigrant to America - to a Russian woman now living in America - to an American woman originally from Russia. While true that some aspects of her character are indelibly impressed by her culture and life experiences - just as it is in us all - the environment has a HUGE impact, and she will change. Guaranteed. It is only a matter of time. Some may take longer than others - but they will ALL eventually transition to take on more and more characteristics of their environment - it is perfectly natural and something would be seriously amiss if it does NOT occur.

- Dan

This transition is so very true.  In our case it is even compounded by our move to California.  Not only has Lena transformed into an American woman from Russia, but now she also has that "California girl" thingy going too.  Quite interesting, really.  I have to say that I love the evolution.  Most of what we talk about here are very superficial traits i.e. accent, dress, daily habits, but the real root values that I loved and admired have not changed one little bit.

KenC
You are a den of vipers and thieves-Andrew Jackson on banks
Banking establishments are more dangerous than standing armies-Thomas Jefferson

Offline catzenmouse

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« Reply #34 on: January 04, 2006, 11:46:06 AM »
Quote from: dostogirl
It's outdated (though I think I've read a newer version of it), but even after almost 7 years with my husband I still find it pretty helpful in terms of understanding each other's cultural differences.

dostogirl,

 I agree. There is a good amount of beneficial information here and I have given the book to others to read (most not involved in the FSUW/WM relationship) as they expressed an interest in learning more about the culture. I have another book called "The Russian Way" (I think thats the name anyway) that also has some good tidbits of knowledge in it.

 WHAT? You lost your accent?!?! Your poor husband....:D;):D

Ken
"Marriage is that relation between man and woman in which the independence is equal, the dependence mutual, and the obligation reciprocal."
-- Louis K. Anspacher

Offline Aleksia

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« Reply #35 on: January 04, 2006, 01:29:53 PM »
I think, no matter how many years do people live together, they will have cultural differences and I personally see it as a positive thing. It spices relationship, makes it more exciting and interesting.

No matter how many years you live in a new country, if you came to this country as a grown up person, you will keep many of the things from your "past life", you will have your own opinion about things in a new country  (both positive and negative).

Offline dostogirl

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« Reply #36 on: January 04, 2006, 02:45:30 PM »
Quote from: catzenmouse


WHAT? You lost your accent?!?! Your poor husband....:D;):D

Ken
I think he is partly guilty of helping me lose it :D
« Last Edit: January 04, 2006, 03:34:00 PM by dostogirl »

Offline dostogirl

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« Reply #37 on: January 04, 2006, 02:47:39 PM »
Quote from: Aleksia
I think, no matter how many years do people live together, they will have cultural differences
It's also important to see a difference between cultural dissimilarities and simply person's character, I think.

Offline Turboguy

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« Reply #38 on: January 04, 2006, 03:25:23 PM »
I am sure most of us would just ship you back and get a new one with an accent:D.  Actually that is one of my biggest complaints with one of my top prospects.  No Russian accent.  Darn, that is going to be sad if she turns out to be the one.

Offline dostogirl

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« Reply #39 on: January 04, 2006, 03:35:31 PM »
Quote from: Turboguy
I am sure most of us would just ship you back and get a new one with an accent:D.
Too late, got my green card :P

Offline Turboguy

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« Reply #40 on: January 04, 2006, 04:10:15 PM »
That is the story of my life.  A day late and a green card short.   Could I recommend Pimsleur's CD's about learning Russian,  Maybe you can get it back.   Maybe you can humor him and say something once in a while like "Can vee go to the store"

Offline KenC

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« Reply #41 on: January 04, 2006, 05:32:44 PM »
Turbo,

Can't you get anything right?  You don't ask:

Maybe you can humor him and say something once in a while like "Can vee go to the store"

Instead you have them say:

"I want to kill that moose and squirrel"!:dude:

KenC
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Offline Oosik

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« Reply #42 on: January 10, 2006, 10:44:03 AM »
Quote from: albert
...Its all in the economics. If and when the economics improves substantially in the FSU as a whole (not just for a few as it already has), then we won't be able to aspire to the best the FSU has to offer...



That helps, but until the male:female ratio changes enough to change the dynamics of their relationships, they will still want us, just not as much maybe. I gave my fiance foot rubs daily, she swears only 1/1000 Ukrainian men would. I do several other things (ahem) that she swears only 1/1000 UM would do for their women. I have seen how rude the men are to women in public, I can imagine how rude they are in private. Imagine a woman opening a door to go into a building, and men shove past her to go in first with their hands in their pockets, not slowing down, not afraid to bump her out of the way. Imagine women accepting this because they have to. Manners will only change there when the men have to compete for the women, and until manners change, we have a huge leg up.

Regarding the best they have to offer, dude, the average that they have to offer is as good as the best the US has to offer. You only have to walk down the street and run the time honored "doability test" (would I do her). The count is way higher in Russia and UA than in any public place I have been in 20 years, and I have yet to experience a good warm summer day there.

Offline Bruno

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« Reply #43 on: January 10, 2006, 12:22:04 PM »
Quote from: Oosik
That helps, but until the male:female ratio changes enough to change the dynamics of their relationships, they will still want us, just not as much maybe

Oosik, these ratio male:female is only propaganda from some marriage agency... if you read the direct number, yes, you have more women that men in Russia... but below 50 year, the ratio men/women is around 1...

This is direct related to the medium life time... 54 year old for men and 72 year old for women.... only if you hunt women over 50 year old, you have more women that men...

MOB business publish statistic without detail and analyse... it is in the interest of the business...

Some people here cannot imagine how are manipulate statistic... make your own research... the ratio male:female is sh!t for the majority of us who search women below 50 year old...

 

Offline Oosik

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« Reply #44 on: January 10, 2006, 12:55:12 PM »
My fiance told me as we were walking down the street. She first referred to Chernigov as a city of brides, and gave me the ratio herself. I don't know the exact explanation of the ratio, but when I talk to women of 21 through 26 who get choked up talking about their slim chances for being loved and married, when I see their eyes get wet, and we weren't even on a date, I have to believe they know better than you.

I'm telling you guys, in Chernigov at least, these girls ACHE for someone to love.

Offline Bruno

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« Reply #45 on: January 10, 2006, 01:53:26 PM »
Quote from: Oosik

All Russian women seem to have a strong desire to have children. If your lady is less than forty years old, she will definitely want to have at least one child to feel complete in her family. If she already has a child or children, she would probably kill to protect them. Do yourself a favor; don't get in the middle of this dynamic!

It is possible to compare a Russian mother with a mother wolf. She is ready to suffer and to protect her children even if she forgets about herself and is in danger of her own life. ...

The life of a Russian woman would be considered like being defective to some extent if she did not become a mother. It is very important for Russian women to have one child at least.

Issues of children fall into three basic areas: her children, your children, and future children. The conversations a man has with his Russian lady about children are some of the most important discussions on the way to a relationship. Children and child rearing is an integral part of marriage. Relationships get complicated, and step relationships get more complicated than most. Both parties should spend a significant amount of time understanding their own feelings and learning about they partners attitudes in this area.


 

So, the ratio men-women is some propaganda, the main goal is the futur of own children ( bad FSU economie )... if you are ready to be a good father, you can have a long and happy life with your ukrainian women...

Since your girlfriend life in little city, she have not so much choice about a good husband... this don't meen that it is not enough men, this mean that it is not enough men who have the financial power to be a good husband AND good father...

PS: some can find that i am saying thing differently that before but since that i am not more a agency owner, i am more free to say what i think and what i have learn... be agency owner was a valuable experience to know what think really FSU women... Only a few here ( by example my ennemy JB ) know the "false" propaganda that agency use for attract client... 

Offline KenC

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« Reply #46 on: January 10, 2006, 02:06:32 PM »
Bruno,

It may be propaganda that is offered up on agency sites, but if the women of Russia believe it, it has the same affect as if it were true.  I know my wife firmly believed it to be true (that there was a serious shortage of RM) also.  I also don't think that RW are getting the propaganda from agencies either.  It is common "knowledge" or better yet common "misinformation" among RW.  Their "perceived reality" is what is important not some graphs and charts you googled.

KenC
« Last Edit: January 10, 2006, 02:07:00 PM by KenC »
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Offline Oosik

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« Reply #47 on: January 10, 2006, 02:09:52 PM »
You have yet to address the point that my comments were specific to Chernigov.

Many of the men have left. Maybe they are in Kiev, in the military, maybe those that served in the USSR military chose to go to Russia, who knows.

The men that are here treat the women badly in Chernigov. If they were "out of the market" for a wife for merely financial reasons, it seems that they would make up for a lack of funds by kissing their feet. Their behavior is the behavior of men with an oversupply of desirable women. I know many people don't truly understand how free markets work, but the behavior of their men can only be explained that way.

Offline BC

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« Reply #48 on: January 10, 2006, 02:19:55 PM »
When talking about a smaller city there are a lot of men who work elsewhere, spending from 1 to 3 months or even more away from 'home'.



Offline Bruno

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« Reply #49 on: January 10, 2006, 02:36:59 PM »
Quote from: Oosik
You have yet to address the point that my comments were specific to Chernigov.

Many of the men have left. Maybe they are in Kiev, in the military, maybe those that served in the USSR military chose to go to Russia, who knows.

The men that are here treat the women badly in Chernigov. If they were "out of the market" for a wife for merely financial reasons, it seems that they would make up for a lack of funds by kissing their feet. Their behavior is the behavior of men with an oversupply of desirable women. I know many people don't truly understand how free markets work, but the behavior of their men can only be explained that way.

Why do you think that several agency have interest in more litttle city... of course, a men is more able to risk find the better revenue in a big city...

A FSU men will try to find money in big city... a FSU women from little city have not so much opportunity ( except prostitution but it is a low % )...

So, the ratio men/women will be lower in little city... but the % of women able to pay a internet communication will be lower in little city too... of course, the agency allow women to post ads and receive e-mail from free... but this only for the very young one and very sexy... business first...

What is the mean of free market if you are not able to access the market... you have a lot of good FSU women in little city but you are not able to access them ( except with local newpapers ads )... of course, with time, the local pool of rated 10 girl will lower and agency will adapt... but never forget that business agency don't wish that you marry... a marriage is the end of the money flow... they wish that you communicate a lot, it is what bring money...

In you case, you have choose little place and you was lucky... but if i good remember your trip report, it was not the same situation in kiev, a big city... how much potential groom are ready to go in little unknow city... not a lot... i don't critic your way... only it is not the usual one... but i think that it is the good one !!! Not everybody is the dating "Indina Jones" but this have allow you to find your treasure...

In any case, i wish you good luck !!!

 

 

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