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Author Topic: Do any of your wives feel they are treated as first class citizens?  (Read 12857 times)

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Offline catzenmouse

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Re: Do any of your wives feel they are treated as first class citizens?
« Reply #75 on: May 28, 2006, 04:25:15 AM »
All kidding aside, I did tell Lena that she would have to learn to drive. I did notice just a few minutes ago, as little peewee and I were returning from the liquor store that there is also a defensive driving school within 1 mile as well. Lena can walk on down to the school and learn how to drive. She can do that and she has got herself a new car.

Peewee

Might want to check that out. Most defensive driving schools don't teach you to drive. They are the one you go to to get out of a traffic ticket or to put points back on your license. Check with your local school system to see if they have adult-ed driving classes or check with the state board of education to see if they have a list of "trusted" driving schools/instructors.

Ken
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Offline Turboguy

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Re: Do any of your wives feel they are treated as first class citizens?
« Reply #76 on: May 28, 2006, 07:21:36 AM »
I just spent the last 5 days in Beaver Falls with the gal who visited me in LA and later I visted in Rostov.   As far as her being treated like a second class citizen it was totally the opposite.  Everyone was thrilled to talk to her and to meet her and treated her like a princess.  They all almost went crazy over her and I am sure she felt she was treated more like a special person than  a second class citizen.

Offline Son of Clyde

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Re: Do any of your wives feel they are treated as first class citizens?
« Reply #77 on: May 28, 2006, 08:57:32 AM »
Might want to check that out. Most defensive driving schools don't teach you to drive. They are the one you go to to get out of a traffic ticket or to put points back on your license. Check with your local school system to see if they have adult-ed driving classes or check with the state board of education to see if they have a list of "trusted" driving schools/instructors.

Ken
I paid for about 90 minutes of private driving lessons from a Russian driving instructor. She had her international driver's license so I wanted to have someone to acclimate her to driving in Maryland. I ended up having to teach her to parallel park because the instructor spent all of 20 minutes on parking. She was not used to parallel parking.
« Last Edit: May 28, 2006, 08:59:07 AM by Son of Clyde »

Offline PeeWee

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Re: Do any of your wives feel they are treated as first class citizens?
« Reply #78 on: May 28, 2006, 10:41:01 AM »
I paid for about 90 minutes of private driving lessons from a Russian driving instructor. She had her international driver's license so I wanted to have someone to acclimate her to driving in Maryland. I ended up having to teach her to parallel park because the instructor spent all of 20 minutes on parking. She was not used to parallel parking.

What sort of parking had she preformed, Clyde? Mostly your run of the mill head in stuff? I saw how the park in Moscow. There was some paralell action going on but mostly head in shots.

peewee

Offline Jumper

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Re: Do any of your wives feel they are treated as first class citizens?
« Reply #79 on: May 28, 2006, 12:29:19 PM »
peewee-

One of the best things i did was have Tanya take extensive driving intruction in Ukraine,
despite her father being a stunt driver for a living(bizarre but true) ,
 he never took any interest in teaching her,
and she lived near the center so like many RW could easily walk or take mashrukas to anywhere of interest.
Many of her friends had cars, so she had some driving experience.

anyway this was extensive instruction, and three times per week!
and it was somewhat long term.i continued to have her drive even after passing her international DL exam, just for the continued experience it would be.
it was inexpensive ,
it gave her priceless experience,
and if you learn the driving ropes in an FSU city, Chicago and its outlying areas are a piece of cake!  ;D

she had good english , knows her way around map quest ,
and could go anywhere of interest from the first day, and did!
So the main thing it did was allow her a fair bit of instant  freedom,
from the housebound blues so many RW endure initially?
and that in itself was worth any amount paid for the continued driving instruction?

not something you have to do,by any means ,
but it is one way to prepare your RW for life in this culture..
in our case it was certainly well worth the investment
(shes a much better and concientiuos driver than me)
In general, this culture drives, ALOT.and if you're near a major city it would be very intimidating to anyone..not used to driving daily?

Quality english lessons, and driving lessons (obviously only if needed)
diffinantly ease the transition.
I see guys on variuos RW boards , not look deeply into either ofthese issues  all the time, and wonder WTF?
(yes,even though her english was decent, we changed english instructers a few times to get a very good and reasonably priced one, my wife was very critical of some of the less than experienced instructors,and felt they overcharged )

To feel like a regular person in this culture, nothing could be more paramount
than language?
wether you want to speak to her or not is one thing! LOL
but if you want your wife to feel comfortable in gher new surroundings , she is going to need to be able tio easily communicate.
if she cant, she will not be herself, as any self confidence will be severly limited??

Driving isnt nearly as important of course! but in this culture , (generally)
her having as much experince as possible behind the wheel,
will make those first 6? months much easier..(again generally)
.

Offline Son of Clyde

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Re: Do any of your wives feel they are treated as first class citizens?
« Reply #80 on: May 28, 2006, 01:08:46 PM »
AJ, how does she feel about your line of work? You test motorcycles for safety? I guess someone has to do this, but it does not appear to be the safest job to have. Could you revert to a desk job if you needed to? You would probably be expert enough to write safety manuals. Or maybe this is a part of your job now?
« Last Edit: May 28, 2006, 01:11:58 PM by Son of Clyde »

Offline Jumper

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Re: Do any of your wives feel they are treated as first class citizens?
« Reply #81 on: May 28, 2006, 01:58:35 PM »
sorry  ::::off topic:::
Quote
AJ, how does she feel about your line of work?
she absolutely hates it.
I'm passionate about it.. always have been , and i was when we met,
 she has to accept it as part of who she married.
I asked for her hand, with full discloser,,
she accepted.
(even when we met i was traveling to Prague for a race, took a side trip to check out Ukrainian devushkas i had emailed or contacted thru Jack. ;) ....I was previuosly based out of Prague ,racing and managing a race team) 

Quote
You test motorcycles for safety? I guess someone has to do this, but it does not appear to be the safest job to have.
not exactly, i design and test models made for racing  ,for performance,(yes safety plays a role but not so much in a race specific model)
  mostly an R&D kinda guy..new models /new performance parts..
 I actually do any seriuos testing about 4 or 5 times per month.
(not that often)and  used to be an instructor as well. (but not for safety courses ) and president of a racing associatiion.

Quote
Could you revert to a desk job if you needed to?
write tech or safety  manuals ? you've seen my posts LOL!
 i could but only with extensive editing by someone?
probably easier for them to write it themselves.

a desk job?
absolutely could !!  and thats something my wife used to nag about, but has given it up as just a bone of contention now.
Clyde , at one point i was offered and took a desk job..
better money, nice clean desk,, my own little desk name plate and manager title, you get the drift..i did it for a several years and hated it, i thought it would grow on me, it dint.I hated going to work , i hated being stuck inside, i hated the office politics of that atmosphere, even though i was promoted well, I wasnt happy at all.You spend far to much time at work to be miserible your whole time there.I went back to what i always enjoyed doing, and looked foward to going to work each morning.I still do. Its not as financially rewarding, but sans a few injuries, the quality of my daily life is much better.I feel lucky, when someone will pay you decently to do what you would do for free?
 My wife isnt completely understanding of this,, but if i went back to being a 9-5 desk jockey, it would be better income and of course safer,
but I would go crazy and be miserible.
A case could certainly be made that i am being selfish,
However  my side is:
 i had played that desk game before. knew it wasnt for me, and went on with my life in the way that ultimately is best for me,  before i met her.
 Told her exactly how it was in the past,  and how it would be in our future,  long before proposing..

it may sound harsh, but the reality is:
A man is the one asking , on his terms,
 somethings are negiotiable, but part of who you are as a person isnt.
(i'm not a rich guy, or desk guy, nor a safe guy , my job and hobbies are all fairly risky )
She can say yes , no , or maybe..
 For example: if instead she had asked for my hand, with certain terms understood, (perhaps like stipulating safer employment or hobbies like golf  verses skiing /ski diving /whatever  )
i would have said , thanks, but no thanks.


 
« Last Edit: May 28, 2006, 02:05:20 PM by AJ »
.

Offline PeeWee

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Re: Do any of your wives feel they are treated as first class citizens?
« Reply #82 on: May 28, 2006, 05:25:41 PM »
peewee-

One of the best things i did was have Tanya take extensive driving intruction in Ukraine,
despite her father being a stunt driver for a living(bizarre but true) ,
 he never took any interest in teaching her,
and she lived near the center so like many RW could easily walk or take mashrukas to anywhere of interest.
Many of her friends had cars, so she had some driving experience.

anyway this was extensive instruction, and three times per week!
and it was somewhat long term.i continued to have her drive even after passing her international DL exam, just for the continued experience it would be.
it was inexpensive ,
it gave her priceless experience,
and if you learn the driving ropes in an FSU city, Chicago and its outlying areas are a piece of cake!  ;D

she had good english , knows her way around map quest ,
and could go anywhere of interest from the first day, and did!
So the main thing it did was allow her a fair bit of instant  freedom,
from the housebound blues so many RW endure initially?
and that in itself was worth any amount paid for the continued driving instruction?

not something you have to do,by any means ,
but it is one way to prepare your RW for life in this culture..
in our case it was certainly well worth the investment
(shes a much better and concientiuos driver than me)
In general, this culture drives, ALOT.and if you're near a major city it would be very intimidating to anyone..not used to driving daily?

Quality english lessons, and driving lessons (obviously only if needed)
diffinantly ease the transition.
I see guys on variuos RW boards , not look deeply into either ofthese issues  all the time, and wonder WTF?
(yes,even though her english was decent, we changed english instructers a few times to get a very good and reasonably priced one, my wife was very critical of some of the less than experienced instructors,and felt they overcharged )

To feel like a regular person in this culture, nothing could be more paramount
than language?
wether you want to speak to her or not is one thing! LOL
but if you want your wife to feel comfortable in gher new surroundings , she is going to need to be able tio easily communicate.
if she cant, she will not be herself, as any self confidence will be severly limited??

Driving isnt nearly as important of course! but in this culture , (generally)
her having as much experince as possible behind the wheel,
will make those first 6? months much easier..(again generally)


That is a worthy idea. I do believe that to have her begin her driving lessons prior to her arrival would be a big advantage to her. Her confidence level would be higher.

Thanks for the tip.

Peewee

Offline Jet

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Re: Do any of your wives feel they are treated as first class citizens?
« Reply #83 on: May 28, 2006, 10:39:30 PM »
I just spent the last 5 days in Beaver Falls with the gal who visited me in LA and later I visted in Rostov.   As far as her being treated like a second class citizen it was totally the opposite.  Everyone was thrilled to talk to her and to meet her and treated her like a princess.  They all almost went crazy over her and I am sure she felt she was treated more like a special person than  a second class citizen.
During the "honeymoon phase" the same was true here. Once the novelty wore off and we settled into day to day life - that's when she (we) started noticing the rude behavior - always from strangers, never from friends or family who still treat her like a princess to this day. My guess is that you didn't introduce your Rostov friend to any underpaid, apathetic, gov't clerks during your visit...
Every action in company ought to be done with some sign of respect to those that are present. ~ Geo. Washington

Offline PeeWee

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Re: Do any of your wives feel they are treated as first class citizens?
« Reply #84 on: May 28, 2006, 11:31:11 PM »
During the "honeymoon phase" the same was true here. Once the novelty wore off and we settled into day to day life - that's when she (we) started noticing the rude behavior - always from strangers, never from friends or family who still treat her like a princess to this day. My guess is that you didn't introduce your Rostov friend to any underpaid, apathetic, gov't clerks during your visit...

has our society come to that, jet. I suppose that is why we still silently battle with black and white. The bias travels full range from skin color to ethnic to religion to sexual preference. We are a sick lot.

My son attends a Vietnamese church. He is now learning to speak both Mandarin and Vietnamese. The people of the Chinese and the Vietnamese communitys have open their arms to him. They invite him into their homes for chats and dinners. There is no reverse bias. He is not made to feel any different than as if he were one of them. I used to think that the bias was a universal thing. Maybe not so. Maybe it is just an American thing. If so then I am deeply embarrased for what we have become.

Peewee

Offline Turboguy

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Re: Do any of your wives feel they are treated as first class citizens?
« Reply #85 on: May 29, 2006, 04:58:03 AM »
No Jet, I kept her far away from Governement clerks.  Most of it was from strangers.  a guy in a pet shop that gave better service than I had ever seen and was just thrilled to talk to her about Russia, waitresses and people we met in our time together.

Of course we are a little more isolated here.  You don't see people wondering around speaking other languages.    We think of tourists as someone from Illinios here not Russia or England or the like.

Clyde, I think we have always been a little biased here in America.  I can remember my first trip to the south as a child being a little surprised to see separate restrooms with "colored" and "white" on the doors.  Whoever the latest groups of immigrants were, they have always been looked down upon.  Heck, the American Indians probably looked down on the first settlers and probably had jokes about how dumb we were.

Offline Son of Clyde

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Re: Do any of your wives feel they are treated as first class citizens?
« Reply #86 on: May 29, 2006, 07:14:10 AM »
In Baltimore and DC there is a large population of black people. This appears to be mostly as a result of the Social Security Administration and other government agencies hiring of minorities (they also hire handicapped people). My wife and her son told me there were maybe three black people in Crimea.

Immigrants (or my family specifically) tend to focus on the unusual (the large population of black people) because they may not have seen them in their own country. Secondly, they may focus on the obese people. The overweight people I saw in Eastern Europe tended to be heavy but solid. In the US you see heavy people who are just fat, like a marshmallow, with no muscle mass.

Offline PeeWee

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Re: Do any of your wives feel they are treated as first class citizens?
« Reply #87 on: May 29, 2006, 08:16:05 AM »
In Baltimore and DC there is a large population of black people. This appears to be mostly as a result of the Social Security Administration and other government agencies hiring of minorities (they also hire handicapped people). My wife and her son told me there were maybe three black people in Crimea.

Immigrants (or my family specifically) tend to focus on the unusual (the large population of black people) because they may not have seen them in their own country. Secondly, they may focus on the obese people. The overweight people I saw in Eastern Europe tended to be heavy but solid. In the US you see heavy people who are just fat, like a marshmallow, with no muscle mass.


Some of our society can be so selective about their bias, Clyde. I use my mother as an example. As a child she was not allow to play with the Chinese kids. She did not care but her mother did. Now, as an 85 year old, she will some times complain about the guy wearing the trubin she saw in the store or the Russian (she could be Ukraine, mom has no idea) woman wearing the scarf...and they should all go back to where they came from and quit mucking up "her" country. Yet she is Irish and it is ok that her favorite baseball player is Ichiro. It makes no sense at all. Other than it is a selective bias.

Now comes my son. He loves everyone. All of his friends are Asian, including his girlfriend. Today he as been invited to one Vietnamese home to learn Vietnamese and then in the afternoon another Vietnamese man has invited him to have dinner with him. In all of his 22 years of life I have not once heard little peewee utter a negative word about anyone be it religious, racial, or sexual. He is the opposite of his grandmother. I hope that his generation reflects more of the same mentality as he has displayed.

Peewee

« Last Edit: May 29, 2006, 08:19:04 AM by PeeWee »

Online 2tallbill

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Do any of your wives feel they are treated as first class citizens?
« Reply #88 on: September 06, 2021, 11:14:30 AM »
any underpaid, apathetic, gov't clerks during your visit...

The rudest people that Angel Eyes has come into contact worked for
the USCIS or the IRS. Most other people have treated her with courtesy
and respect. 
FSUW are not for entry level daters
FSUW don't do vague
FSUW like a man of action. Be a man of action 
If you find a promising girl, get your butt on a plane.
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Kiss the girl, don't ask her first.

Offline ML

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Re: Do any of your wives feel they are treated as first class citizens?
« Reply #89 on: September 06, 2021, 06:22:57 PM »
The rudest people that Angel Eyes has come into contact worked for
the USCIS or the IRS. Most other people have treated her with courtesy
and respect.

Wife never encountered any disrespect from anyone, not even USCIS.  And she has had no interaction with IRS, nor have I except for my days working for CPA firm way back when.

I remember one very funny thing from my CPA days.  Myself and a senior person were representing a client who owned his own small manufacturing company at an IRS audit.  I had little experience, so was just an observer, except to find various papers/documents when  requested.

When the IRS agent would question a particular deduction, my boss would give an explanation/justification.  Rather than arguing . . . the IRS guy would just start a huge big laughing spell.

It was a very successful tactic, as my boss backed down on some items.
Winston Churchill.  “The best argument against democracy is a five-minute conversation with the average voter.”

Offline ML

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Re: Do any of your wives feel they are treated as first class citizens?
« Reply #90 on: September 06, 2021, 06:29:30 PM »
Now back to treatment of wives . . .

When I was just getting started with USCIS, a distant relative of mine told of experience about 30 years or more back when he had married a gal from Mexico.

They went to Kansas City office of USCIS.

He said that at the appointed time, a USCIS guy came out into the waiting room and said: 

"All you wetbacks represented by an attorney move to that side of the room.  All you wetbacks without an attorney move to the other side of the room."

I doubt they could get away with such in today's PC environment.
Winston Churchill.  “The best argument against democracy is a five-minute conversation with the average voter.”

Offline GQBlues

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Re: Do any of your wives feel they are treated as first class citizens?
« Reply #91 on: September 07, 2021, 10:41:24 AM »
From the onset, I've always noted how my friends and family embraced my wife, especially the females. It was a huge deal when my wife first arrived that the gals immediately included her in various activities, lunches, shopping, etc.. without me.


Wifey had often told me that she noted in the beginning that she was looked upon less by non-MOB Russians more so than anyone else in the US.


Over the years, she really like it when people we don't know would actually tells us/her certain comments that leaves her with a nice feeling. For instance, we were having brunch a couple of weeks ago with a couple of our friends. A waitress came just to introduce herself and tells us how she remembers us at another restaurant she works in. She apparently had served us once or twice at that place. This happens a lot. People we don't know would always approach us and make constant comments of the sort. We were walking on the Las Vegas strip one night, when a group of 3 girls stopped us, and two of them told us they 'know and see us' on the westside. This happens at malls, parks, beach etc...It always leaves wifey with great feeling and a huge smile on her face.
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Online 2tallbill

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Do any of your wives feel they are treated as first class citizens?
« Reply #92 on: September 07, 2021, 04:18:47 PM »
It was a very successful tactic, as my boss backed down on some items.

You can do something similar right back to them. If they disallow an item
you say ok, there is no reason to go further we can win this in tax court.
They won't want to stop and have things end there. They usually have
a half dozen or more issues that they want to go over. They want to win
4 or 5 out of 6 and to have you agree. IRS people are not normal. They got
C's in school, people called them snake face and they are unskilled socially.

Often times they work at their jobs with the idea that will get even with
people that they perceive to be like the former bullies that they've dealt
with as a child.

The agent is supposed to try to get you to settle rather than send it up
the ladder to review, appeal and tax court. Each step you go up the ladder
the less they want you to go to the next step. The IRS loses a lot of court
cases and if they lost the same case in another court they could be liable
for double or treble damages.

My Dad belongs to a service and they will provide several court cases for
each item that you are being audited for. If you show up with 4-5 court
cases for each item explaining how your situation is the same, they tend
to back down. I can't imagine a real tax pro being intimidated by a hyena
IRS agent.

It's like the guy who is overly flamboyant at bluffing while playing cards.
He will lose every time to a pro.

FSUW are not for entry level daters
FSUW don't do vague
FSUW like a man of action. Be a man of action 
If you find a promising girl, get your butt on a plane.
There are a hundred ways to be successful and a thousand ways to f#ck it up
Kiss the girl, don't ask her first.

 

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