How to know if FSW in general are right for you?

[Trenchcoat]

So this is a bit of a strange one but over the past day or so I've started to wonder if FSW are in general suited to what I am looking for. Now the general scope of them I believe they are but I'm really starting to think of more specifics here. In general FSW as a generic connotation could be said to be:

- More feminine than feminist.
- Interested in traditional Marriage & Family.
- Direct, no games, bs or silent treatment.

And probably a whole host of other things but for brevity and same of argument I'll leave it to the above.

Now that's all fine and well and suits me, but beyond those generic traits there are specifics as to how a girl's personality really is. For me I kind of think a girl who is not prim & proper who has a bit of and edge would suit me more. Not a party girl but a girl who is maybe kind of naughty or a bit feisty without being too over the top of course. Thing is I'm starting to wonder if FSW might just be a bit direct and straight laced for me, brought up with the man behaving in a certain way, a but of a too well behaved way in a way.

Now I've only met a few FSW and even the ones that were issues with I still found on the whole pleasant company to be around for the most part. Now a nice friendly socialable girl is all very well but I'm starting to wonder if they might be lacking in the more specific personality traits that I think probably turn me on more and make a relationship really tick as opposed to a mundane functional situation.

So wondering if a girl from another part of the world might suit me more such as Brazil possibly, also thinking about Ireland maybe though of course they're probably not got women sitting around waiting for a guy to rock up.

[Boethius]

I think your view of FSUW is flawed.  They are the original feminists, having equal rights, and closer pay to men, than women in the West from the time of the Bolshevik Revolution. 

You can find all sorts of FSUW.  Some will give you the silent treatment.  Some will yell.  Some will argue reasonably.  People are people the world over.  What you attribute to "culture" is poppycock.

I have never known a Ukrainian family where the woman did not "rule" the family.  Some do it quietly, others, rather forcefully (when they have headstrong husbands).  But in every case, the woman made major decisions, with or without her husband's acquiescense. 

I think you would do far better to find an English woman.  You don't have the income to support an FSUW in the way she would expect a Western partner to provide for her.  A woman from your own country will work.  But either way, you are going to have to increase your income if you expect to have a family.  Children are expensive, unless you want your children to grow up poor.

In any event, you should be dating locally to learn more about what traits you like in a woman, and what you don't.  No person is perfect, and every partner you meet will have some things you like and others you don't.  The trick is finding someone whose flaws you either find endearing, or can live with.

[GQBlues]

 

- More feminine than feminist.

Unlike you, TC, English is not my native tongue. It's my 4th language. But this just gets me every time.

A 'feminist' is not gender-specific, nor is it character description of a woman. A 'feminist' can be a man, transvestite, bi-sexual, etc...it could be Dave Bautista as much as it could be Kate Beckinsale, etc...

A 'feminist' is anyone who supports feminism.

[Trenchcoat]

Unlike you, TC, English is not my native tongue. It's my 4th language. But this just gets me every time.

A 'feminist' is not gender-specific, nor is it character description of a woman. A 'feminist' can be a man, transvestite, bi-sexual, etc...it could be Dave Bautista as much as it could be Kate Beckinsale, etc...

A 'feminist' is anyone who supports feminism.

  GQ at least Boethius made a worthwhile contribution, focus man!

[Trenchcoat]

I have never known a Ukrainian family where the woman did not "rule" the family.  Some do it quietly, others, rather forcefully (when they have headstrong husbands).  But in every case, the woman made major decisions, with or without her husband's acquiescense. 

I think you would do far better to find an English woman.  You don't have the income to support an FSUW in the way she would expect a Western partner to provide for her.  A woman from your own country will work.  But either way, you are going to have to increase your income if you expect to have a family.  Children are expensive, unless you want your children to grow up poor.

In any event, you should be dating locally to learn more about what traits you like in a woman, and what you don't.  No person is perfect, and every partner you meet will have some things you like and others you don't.  The trick is finding someone whose flaws you either find endearing, or can live with.

I'm starting to think you may have a point Boe, I think you highlight some important downsides to FSW. Them trying to rule what happens would just with the vision of where I want to be I think. My concern is that they could be too overbearing. I kind of have come up against this already and it's not a great feeling. I kind of sense it in quite a few FSW I communicate with online like they approach it that you are playing in their ballpark, either that or they don't play with you at all kind of attitude.

The income issue is another problem. If the FSW wasn't very attractive & into me it might work but in general like you say most I get the impression have a idea that western guys are all rather wealthy, a bit more than I have. I could get to the level they expect but it will take me years that would out me in a worse position age wise I think. Their expectation would be a problem against the ye reality I think. Not that things are real bad in terms of wealth for me, better than many in the UK I suspect though not really at all what would be regarded as wealthy.

English girls, well they vary, I think I might be able to source sone that are a bit apart from the type that appear on standard dating sites such as Match & POF. I think you are right in that it may be worth me giving that a bash before any more FSU endeavours. I'll report back if much happens on this front. I have a few ideas at the moment so just trying them out I think. Many thanks

[2tallbill]

How to know if FSW in general are right for you?

An FSUW was right for me and I was searching in the sweet spot an age
where high quality FSUW were in surplus, below is what I put in my profile.


I am not looking for a woman that I can live with, I am looking for a woman that
I can't live without. What am I looking for? I want it all. I want love, beauty, passion, education, honesty, a confidant, a real companion, a lover, a wife. I want a woman
who wants to be a woman and who wants her man to be a man.
(I told you I want it all :-)

I am a Catholic and I am looking for a Christian woman, I don't fall on my knees
and pray every five minutes but I am a believer and NOT looking for an atheist.

I got it all and more,

Udachi!

Bill

[Trenchcoat]

How to know if FSW in general are right for you?

An FSUW was right for me and I was searching in the sweet spot an age
where high quality FSUW were in surplus, below is what I put in my profile.


I am not looking for a woman that I can live with, I am looking for a woman that
I can't live without. What am I looking for? I want it all. I want love, beauty, passion, education, honesty, a confidant, a real companion, a lover, a wife. I want a woman
who wants to be a woman and who wants her man to be a man.
(I told you I want it all :-)

I am a Catholic and I am looking for a Christian woman, I don't fall on my knees
and pray every five minutes but I am a believer and NOT looking for an atheist.

I got it all and more,

Udachi!

Bill

But do you find her as Boethius describes, that she wants to 'rule' the family and consequently rule over you?

I'm not saying all guys have a problem with that, sone it may suit and be happy with it like that, just depends on the guy I guess.

[tfcrew]

I think your view of FSUW is flawed.   

This is news?

[tfcrew]

- More feminine than feminist.
- Interested in traditional Marriage & Family.
- Direct, no games, bs or silent treatment.

  A 'feminist' is anyone who supports feminism.

fem·i·nist/ˈfemənəst/         nounnoun: feminist; plural noun: feminists

• a person who supports feminism.

adjectiveadjective: feminist...relating to or supporting feminism.**"feminist literature" 

GQ at least Boethius made a worthwhile contribution, focus man!

Excuse please...but the term 'feminist was in the 1st post so not OT.
 "Silent treatment"? R U kidding? 

** “Men are from Earth, women are from Earth. Deal with it.”
  ―  George Carlin

“You educate a man; you educate a man. You educate a woman; you educate a generation.”
  ―  Brigham Young

[2tallbill]

But do you find her as Boethius describes, that she wants to 'rule' the family and consequently rule over you?

I'm not saying all guys have a problem with that, some it may suit and be happy with it like that, just depends on the guy I guess.

Trench, we are married so we don't have a family ruler. Angel Eyes is the household
manager and I trust her to run a ton of things which frees me up to make more
money and to be more productive. I don't micromanage her domain (unless she
breaks out power tools) and she doesn't try to micro manage mine.

[Trenchcoat]

Trench, we are married so we don't have a family ruler. Angel Eyes is the household
manager and I trust her to run a ton of things which frees me up to make more
money and to be more productive. I don't micromanage her domain (unless she
breaks out power tools) and she doesn't try to micro manage mine.

But are you in denial? Could the above not just be another way of saying FSW tells me what to do at home then tells me to go out and bring money in - and that is my purpose of being to her.

No offense with the above but I tend to get the impression most FSW see it as that is the way things are. For me it's not an envious position for me to envy wanting to be in.

[BC]

So this is a bit of a strange one but over the past day or so I've started to wonder if FSW are in general suited to what I am looking for.

If your thoughts raise such questions, FSUW are definitely not for you.  The same applies to high-end stores that do not display prices.  Both are very similar situations.

[2tallbill]

But are you in denial? Could the above not just be another way of saying FSW tells me what to do at home then tells me to go out and bring money in - and that is my purpose of being to her.

No offense with the above but I tend to get the impression most FSW see it as that is the way things are. For me it's not an envious position for me to envy wanting to be in.

Trenchcoat,

I doubt that you have ever been in a long term loving relationship with a
woman especially not a Russian woman. I get showered in love all the
freaking time.  I know what I have.

Russian woman are not for everyone. You are in borderline poverty, teenagers
working at McDonalds make more money than you do AND you are lazy and
have no discipline or motivation to improve yourself.

How is your remodeling project progressing? Still making you too knackered
to hit the gym? or to study Russian?

Udachi

Bill 

[Boethius]

I'm starting to think you may have a point Boe, I think you highlight some important downsides to FSW. Them trying to rule what happens would just with the vision of where I want to be I think. My concern is that they could be too overbearing. I kind of have come up against this already and it's not a great feeling. I kind of sense it in quite a few FSW I communicate with online like they approach it that you are playing in their ballpark, either that or they don't play with you at all kind of attitude.

It wasn't intended as a downside.  It was merely an observation. 


I think your expectations of a woman are unrealistic, and it wouldn't matter where she is from.  You need to bear down to understanding the human condition more, I think.

[2tallbill]

Trenchcoat,


Udachi

Bill

Trench,

I was beating you up and that isn't a good thing or my intention.

My point is that I am not being ruled by my wife, I'm absolutely
positive with no reservations. I have a great thing with Angel Eyes
and I have a ton of experience with relationships to know what is
bad, so-so, good and GREAT. I've achieved GREAT. I am truly living
the dream.

I wish nothing less for you or for others reading this thread

Udachi!

Bill

[John Gaunt]

Now I've only met a few FSW and even the ones that were issues with I still found on the whole pleasant company to be around for the most part. Now a nice friendly socialable girl is all very well but I'm starting to wonder if they might be lacking in the more specific personality traits that I think probably turn me on more and make a relationship really tick as opposed to a mundane functional situation

Trench

It’s been said time and time again not that you take any notice.
Your whole idea of womanhood is flawed.

It doesn’t matter where a woman you enter into a relationship with comes from, until you change your attitude to them you will never succeed.
Dating women is one thing and you haven’t even been able to do that successfully at home let alone in a foreign country.
Marriage is a completely different ball game.
The day you get married is the day the work at building and sustaining a marriage really begins.
There’s no easy route to a successful marriage. It takes commitment, patience, ability to compromise, effort and a whole lot of other things to make a marriage.
Then when you have children, the dynamics of a marriage completely change as does a man’s place in the family.
You are not mature or wise enough nor do you have the financial resources to sustain a marriage through years and decades of living with a woman and making a family.
As those who have done so can tell you.
I’ve been married to my wife for 10 years now. Are we happy together? Yes
Is every day a work at your marriage day? Yes
Do I think she’s the best thing that ever happened to me? Yes.
Would I do anything in my power to see her happy? Yes
If you value the person you marry you will give all you can to sustain the marriage and that happens from both persons.
Is my marriage perfect? No
There are many times when povs and opinions differ, when miscommunication happens, when you are tired and grumpy and patience wears thin.
There are good times and bad times.
Many (most?) marriages fail.
Have you got what it takes to succeed?

From what you write here it doesn’t seem so.

[John Gaunt]

Ps.
Trench, it was my wife’s birthday a few days back. I’ve taken her to a beach resort for the weekend. It’s 33C, the water is great, we’ve had a lovely few days and recharged our batteries.
Life is good.

[Trenchcoat]

Trenchcoat,

I doubt that you have ever been in a long term loving relationship with a
woman especially not a Russian woman. I get showered in love all the
freaking time.  I know what I have.

Russian woman are not for everyone. You are in borderline poverty, teenagers
working at McDonalds make more money than you do AND you are lazy and
have no discipline or motivation to improve yourself.

How is your remodeling project progressing? Still making you too knackered
to hit the gym? or to study Russian?

Udachi

Bill

The UK isn't like the US in terms of economy Bill. Aside from a few wealthy people everyone acts like their a few bob too short all the time. This week just gone Boris Johnson said he wants to move the UK towards a high pay, high skilled economy. I'm hoping that he is able to achieve such but I remain uncertain as to whether he will be able to achieve such and it not end up sounding like a load of words without it manifesting in reality.

Part of the problem is that especially since we had EU immigration from Eastern Europe well that's cut wages down for everyone. It meant there was a surplus of labour around and that labour could be had very cheap. Employers loved it as they saw cheap labour meaning greater opportunity to make more profit, but of course that cheap labour causes problems elsewhere in the economy. It's like instead of getting stuff cheap as a result of cheap labour in Poland that cheap labour was imported here and that cheap stuff gotten here. Yes it's a way of building industry up but it also undermines the economy. For example I recently pointed out that the (cell cultured, non egg based) Flu vaccine could be easily had for £14.99 here, in the US it's apparently $75. Now even if exchange rates were two dollars to the pound like they were about 15 years ago that would still only mean that we would be paying the equivalent of around $30 to your $75 for the same thing. So how does the UK a small country get the Flu vaccine so much cheaper than a huge economy like the US? Answer is cheap low wages. In the US it's far easier to get a high salary job, here it is very difficult to get a high salary job. Everyone here goes around trying to find how cheap they can get a product or service, the cheapest price at the best quality usually wins, great for the buyer but it undermines the ability of Employers to pay higher wages as they can't sell stuff for a high price. People here have to become interested in how cheap they can get something of decent quality as they often don't get paid a lot. Seems the same all the way through, looking at a subscription for a streaming channel last night, apparently about $20 a month in the US but about £8 here. Then of course there is tax, over £12.5k we pay a third of money earned in tax through income tax and NI.

The UK if course is not a bad economy like Ukraine but despite its upsides of relatively low unemployment it has its downsides also. Of course when we go to Ukraine we are helped out by the good exchange rates of a much stronger pound to their ghrivna. However, a relatively low salary for UK residents and high house prices tends to be an issue when it comes to living lifestyle.

So it's really not me being lazy, I'm taking the best tax expedient route forward to maximizing my income in the UK. Working extra hours and losing a third of that money in tax isn't going to help. Property is where the money is at in the UK, it's why the government keeps the population topped up with immigrants as they don't wish to see the economy undermined by a housing market crash. If I was renting I would be even poorer than I am now and going out to earn just to pass my earnings over to a Landlord in rent each month, aside from food, heating and other living costs if course. So property is where I spend my a lot of my time/money apart from my part time job of course.

So recently I have completed the walls to my extension, it's only about 4 meters by 3 meters but space is at a premium in the UK. It's a masonry cavity wall and it took me all summer to do as it takes time to lay two layers blockwork all the way around. Yes it cheeses me off with how long it takes and having to do the work myself but otherwise it would be £20 - £25k or so to get someone in to do the whole extension rather than about up to £5k to do it myself. Even if I was working more hours at my job I wouldn't be earning enough to cover it and I would have to take out a loan and that would take probably 2-3 years minimum to pay off. Anyhow not much left to do now, just hopefully get on the flat roof before winter arrives and then doors & windows, do our the inside and job done. Doing it myself at least leaves me relatively free of debt. If I had gotten someone in to do all the work I would have tens of thousands in loans/mortgage by now.

Gym I have only in the last week or so made changes. There is no way I can go to the gym and risk getting the virus as I have an elderly Mother that may not fair well, even myself there are no guarantees. So I've decided I'm going to have to work out in my spare time (the little I have off it) and have bought some new heavier weights to help me with that. I've started lifting those and will just have to wait and hopefully progress will show. Lifting blockwork up I think had helped condition my body somewhat and seemed a good idea to not let that gain slide. I'm not real muscly yet, but hopefully btyat will come. The previous weights I had at home I'm getting rid off as they were just too light to realistically make any real impact, it's kind of laughable the rubbish that gets sold for that stuff.

Russian I have not done any for a little while. In theory I could fit in a but here or there in the nights before going to sleep but I find listening to it difficult to follow well enough when tired. I may try again but it's not easy to take it in, in that state and I don't have any other time to do it in. So it's likely going to have to take a back seat until after the house is finished off so I can really devote some quality time to it.

So there we are, that's about the size of it. Thing is I think FSW women think things come easy in the west. Possibly in a high wage economy like the US they come easier (not saying a high wage job there isn't stressful hard work) but in the UK and probably most EU countries it's not so easy to provide well. FSW seem to get the impression that a guy will be able to provide a high standard of living in the UK and while it is likely better than in Ukraine, Russia, etc I get the impression that their vision isn't the reality for most Brits. It actually takes a lot to be able to live in a nice big house in the UK, drive a nice posh car and have all needs met by a nice sizeable income. There is the dream then there is reality.

[Trenchcoat]

Just to give another example, in a recent news article there was this young girl & her guy raving on about how they got an Architect to draw up plans for their extension, submit them to planning l, get them passed then consult an Engineer and put that in the price all for a sum of £400. Probably some construction drawings in with that also. Plus he gave advice on a better layout for the kitchen than what they had planned. Now that's a ridiculously cheap rate, probably McDonald's rate of pay or close too when you work out the time involved, deduct for office rent/running costs, marketing, tax, utility bills, etc, etc. Now consider this is a fully qualified Architect that takes about 10 years plus to get that, then experience on top of that and a hell of a lot of knowledge and learning to retain and utilise.

The extension looked like it was about at least double mine so about 8 meters by 3 meters. The highest price a builder had quoted them was £100k for the work, but oh that was too much for them so they begun the process off interviewing builders for a lot cheaper price. Think in another article if it's the same couple, similar project, they got it done for about 50k, bear in mind there is quite a lot of materials and work involved even for small extensions. In that 50k there will be done profit but again after all costs and taxes probably not a lot.

So that hopefully gives you more of an idea of the economy we are living in, in the UK. Way worse economies around, no high inflation like in Ukraine and other economic issues but the issue of almost everyone having to work for the lowest possible remuneration is of course a problem. That's why I sound like a cheapskate all the time, it's not because of me so much but because nearly everyone lives that way here.

I could do similar work to what that Architect does as my day job but why bother when all I'm going to get is the same sort of cr*p McDonald's pay he was getting after taxes & expenses and what I can get in any job with a lot less bother, stress and hassle, common sense really.

http://www.google.com/amp/s/www.express.co.uk/life-style/property/1497807/house-renovation-property-extension-cost-architect-ifl/amp

[John Gaunt]

More Trench Blah blah blah, blaming everything and everyone under the sun for his failings and ineptitude in earning a decent wage........

Give over Trench, you’re just regurgitating more of the same crap to justify your  poverty of thought, action and life.

People like you are what is everything wrong in the UK today. A generation that has grown believing the state owns them everything for nothing. Your refusal to go out and earn a decent wage in order to avoid paying taxes and contribute to society is what undermines the very principal of the welfare state.
You expect someone else to pick up the tab so you can benefit from a free education, free healthcare, free pension  free (name your pick) etc etc.

I trust the day will come when you will go into a care home and the state takes your miserable two up two down and flogs it in exchange for paying for your life of free loading.

[2tallbill]

The UK isn't like the US in terms of economy Bill.

Part of the problem is that especially since we had EU immigration from Eastern Europe well that's cut wages down for everyone. It meant there was a surplus of labour around and that labour could be had very cheap.

You get more than 200,000 illegal immigrants per month in the UK? That's what
we get at our Southern Border. I live in Texas, I sell windows and doors and have
never worked in the oil industry. I learned about it during my time selling windows
in North Dakota. I am a money machine. As long as I am working, I make money
but if I stop or slow down the money stops. I wake up every day with the knowledge
that I have to make money right now today. 

The mean UK salary is £36,834 per year*. You are far below average,
a third less? If you were a school boy you would be failing.

You need to get yourself up to the mean to have a marriage and family regardless
of where you find your wife. If you weren't lazy, you would have accomplished
ONE thing. 1. Your remodeling project, 2. your income, 3. your ripped body from
the gym, 4. your Russian language ability. You have a part time job and excuses
for everything else.

You can blame lack of success on the women you come across or you can
improve yourself, stop making excuses and win.

This was not intended to be a beat up Trench session, but you bring it on yourself.

*Source
http://www.payspective.com/insights/average-salary-uk/

[Trenchcoat]

You get more than 200,000 illegal immigrants per month in the UK? That's what
we get at our Southern Border. I live in Texas, I sell windows and doors and have
never worked in the oil industry. I learned about it during my time selling windows
in North Dakota. I am a money machine. As long as I am working, I make money
but if I stop or slow down the money stops. I wake up every day with the knowledge
that I have to make money right now today. 

The mean UK salary is £36,834 per year*. You are far below average,
a third less? If you were a school boy you would be failing.

You need to get yourself up to the mean to have a marriage and family regardless
of where you find your wife. If you weren't lazy, you would have accomplished
ONE thing. 1. Your remodeling project, 2. your income, 3. your ripped body from
the gym, 4. your Russian language ability. You have a part time job and excuses
for everything else.

You can blame lack of success on the women you come across or you can
improve yourself, stop making excuses and win.

This was not intended to be a beat up Trench session, but you bring it on yourself.

*Source
http://www.payspective.com/insights/average-salary-uk/

£36,834 (total gross salary before tax) - £12,500 (tax free allowance - mostly) = £24,334 (taxable pay)

£24,334 ÷ 100 (percent) = £243.34 (1 percent tax) × 33 (for 33 percent tax, a third in tax) = £8030.22 Total tax (Income tax at 20 percent and NI at around 12 percent)

NI actually starts after someone earns over £8,500 a year and is going up by 1.25 percent soon so I rough averaged it out to 13 percent above £12,500 salary to make the numbers easy.

So a salary of £36,834 - £8030.22 (Total tax) = £28353.78 (Take home net pay, rough estimate but fairly accurate)

Now a take home salary of £28k isn't too bad at all though far less than the almost £37k salary quoted. So not nearly as good sounding and to be honest as said before the average salary is not the experience of most people in the UK. It's the mean average and not the mode as in terms of never of people that get that salary, a mode average would be far more appropriate as it's the number of people that actually experience getting that salary range that count. Otherwise with a mean figure there will be people that earn £100,000 plus a year, millions possibly for a lucky few hiking up the overall mean average figure. The average figure you quote isn't at all easy to get and even if you do will come with masses of work and stress, with that dating will be the last thing on one's mind.

So don't work in the oil industry, never have?

[Trenchcoat]

I mean most people I know in the UK tend to work a 37.5 - 42 hour job with a salary range of around £20k - £25k per annum. A few will earn mid to high twenty thousand but not that many the £20k - £25k is a pretty common salary for the UK.

So maths time again, let's say it's £24,500 that someone earns per year, a third in tax over £12,500 (free tax allowance) is £4,000. So that person would take home £20,500, now that's only £7,500 more than someone who works part time who pays only a little NI as they don't go over the £12,500 income tax free allowance threshold. So that person is giving up most of their week all year long for £7,500, a good deal?

[John Gaunt]

I mean most people I know in the UK tend to work a 37.5 - 42 hour job with a salary range of around £20k - £25k per annum. A few will earn mid to high twenty thousand but not that many the £20k - £25k is a pretty common salary for the UK.

So maths time again, let's say it's £24,500 that someone earns per year, a third in tax over £12,500 (free tax allowance) is £4,000. So that person would take home £20,500, now that's only £7,500 more than someone who works part time who pays only a little NI as they don't go over the £12,500 income tax free allowance threshold. So that person is giving up most of their week all year long for £7,500, a good deal?

All you’re doing is simply confirming that you are too poor to even think of looking for a fsuw.
Best you stay home and count your pennies while munching your baked beans on toast.

[fathertime]

Best you stay home and count your pennies while munching your baked beans on toast.

I've never heard of such a weird meal.  Is that something that people eat in the UK?

Fathertime!