Is going to the FSU looking for wimmin becoming a thing of the past ?

[Chelseaboy]

I was just thinking about some of the characters on here who used to go to Ukraine regularly chasing wimmin,who we don't hear from anymore.


Remember Vinny from  the UK ?


I believe he was bald and owned an Insurance brokerage or similar in the midlands....and was filmed at one of the socials organised by one of the big FSU dating sites.


I enjoyed his regular trip reports regaling us with the hotties he was dating that he couldn't pin down for marriage....a real cool character.


I'd have liked him as a wingman out there..we'd have had some laughs,even if we didn't meet THE one 


Then there was the larger than life character from the USA who used to organize socials in Ukraine..i think he spent about 6 months of the year there,and enjoyed taking photo's of the hotties walking in the streets there to post on here.


I was going to go out to one of his socials to meet him and all these hotties he knew...but then he sadly died 


It seemed like the wild west out there then...a big adventure...but the buzz seems to have gone.


Most of the members here who continue posting are married...and there seems to be very few with feet on the ground out there dating nowadays.

[ML]

I remember Vinny and Jack Bragg.

Vinny and I exchanged a few humorous jabs.  Never met him.

Jack was a real character.  I met him once in Kyiv.
He looked fairly silly in his 'biker' outfit, but he didn't care.
He and I would have disagreed on almost everything, which I knew, so I steered clear and just had an enjoyable lengthy chat at a restaurant.

I met two other guys in Ukraine who died sometime later.
One was Dave, I think, in Dnipro.  He married a physician, but died on an operating table.
Another was Howard, I think, in Simferopol and again in Kharkiv.
He was married to a professor.

Just remembered two others that I met, who are still alive, I presume and lived in Sevastopol.
One was Art, a retired commercial airline pilot.  He owned 2 apartments there; one right on the main street of town and another over on an island that used a ferry to get there.
He was with a young gal that he later married and she gave birth to twin girls.  She was intent on giving birth in Ukraine, but Art talked her into visiting a doctor in his home area of San Diego for a check-up.  When she observed the facilities, she changed her mind and wanted to give birth there.
Can't remember the other one's name, but he was married to a stunning tall slender blonde.  He imported used telecommunication equipment into Ukraine (no, not Moby).  They also started a school and had rounded up some people to cover various courses.  Can't remember the focus, but English and computers were covered.  He also owned two or more apartments there.

[tfcrew]

Most of the members here who continue posting are married...and there seems to be very few with feet on the ground out there dating nowadays.

The pandemic certainly didn't help things.

[Jumper1]

Chelseaboy,

The guy running socials was Jack Bragg,he passed away.

As to travel, I'd imagine its declined, from.an already low number.

Add in far less people interact on forums and have been more likely involved in the large social.media platforms and related groups.

Only as example,  a very large public forum in my line of work, with a lot more membership and posts than any combination of forums  of this type, is a shell of its past self and basically non existant.
Yet fb groups covering that.same topic are 100k members etc.and often see a lot of the old forum members that just transitioned to fb.in that case.

So it's likely a large factor as well.

[Boethius]

I don't think Vinny wanted to be married. 


Younger people, in general, don't use forums, other than reddit.  I assume between 30 and 40 (maybe even older) they are on facebook groups.  I know my children, all in their twenties, don't use facebook at all.

[Trenchcoat]

I don't think Vinny wanted to be married. 


Younger people, in general, don't use forums, other than reddit.  I assume between 30 and 40 (maybe even older) they are on facebook groups.  I know my children, all in their twenties, don't use facebook at all.

Why don't they use Facebook? Do they use something else instead?

[Trenchcoat]

A lot of the Facebook groups seem to be more from dating agencies. Even a few where the group has been overrun with girl catfishing guys with boob popping pics likely with heavily padded bras.

From a quick search this is the only group which seemed legit in terms of both guys & girls wanting to get it on:

http://m.facebook.com/groups/690837287735918?group_view_referrer=search

Kind of reminded me of the old lonely hearts column you used to get in the paper way back (no I never did that fortunately) Just kind of random guys & girls posting up their interest, possibly more guts than girls but at least seems straight up. Not much in the way of conversation about FSU dating on there, the guts just get on with it in terms of posting up their wish to meet a girl then that's it. My guess is that few will get girls write to them it's more just a random hope. If they do then it's whether they go meet them know what the are doing etc. I'm not so sure that there is a lot of go in Facebook for dating out there.

One guy downpage even wants to do a 'deal' with a FSW as he has given up on the idea of love. I can see how he got there as I wondered similar at one point but I doubt he'll get very far with it.

[Chelseaboy]

The pandemic certainly didn't help things.

No it hasn't..it's stopped me meeting one lady in particular out there...would have been my second trip to Ukraine.


Even though i've had the first two jabs i'm reluctant to go to a country with still such currently high infections and deaths.


Before the pandemic there was the problem with Russia and the will they won't they invade Ukraine uncertainty after they took Crimea,allied to the separatist fighting.

[ML]

30-40 years ago when newspaper ads were the only way to try to find a gal/guy . . . a divorced friend of mine ran some ads.

The best response came from . . . his ex-wife!

[Chelseaboy]

A lot of the Facebook groups seem to be more from dating agencies. Even a few where the group has been overrun with girl catfishing guys with boob popping pics likely with heavily padded bras.

From a quick search this is the only group which seemed legit in terms of both guys & girls wanting to get it on:

http://m.facebook.com/groups/690837287735918?group_view_referrer=search

Kind of reminded me of the old lonely hearts column you used to get in the paper way back (no I never did that fortunately) Just kind of random guys & girls posting up their interest, possibly more guts than girls but at least seems straight up. Not much in the way of conversation about FSU dating on there, the guts just get on with it in terms of posting up their wish to meet a girl then that's it. My guess is that few will get girls write to them it's more just a random hope. If they do then it's whether they go meet them know what the are doing etc. I'm not so sure that there is a lot of go in Facebook for dating out there.

One guy downpage even wants to do a 'deal' with a FSW as he has given up on the idea of love. I can see how he got there as I wondered similar at one point but I doubt he'll get very far with it.

Kind of blows away they're all on FB now theory.


Just seems that very few western wife-seeking men are going out there now...maybe they're all at home playing on their X-boxes now...or making do with all the average-looking single mums over here and in the USA nowadays.

[Chelseaboy]

30-40 years ago when newspaper ads were the only way to try to find a gal/guy . . . a divorced friend of mine ran some ads.

The best response came from . . . his ex-wife!

About thirty years ago,after deciding i'd had enough of English women after a particularly bad break-up with a girl who ripped me off financially, i responded to an advert in the Exchange and Mart from a guy who ran a postal agency coonecting men in the UK with girls in Bulgaria and Romania.


I sent him my photo's and some details about me and he'd pass them onto the girls out there.


It was quite exciting getting all these letters and photo's in response from the girls 


So into the unknown i leapt and flew out to Bulgaria to meet one of the girls...after a few phone conversations with her.


Unfortunately,she didn't look anything like as hot as her photo's and she had two young kids she'd forgotten to tell me about.


Still,it was a nice holiday and i had loads of attention from some real stunners out there..none of whom could speak English 

[Trenchcoat]

About thirty years ago,after deciding i'd had enough of English women after a particularly bad break-up with a girl who ripped me off financially, i responded to an advert in the Exchange and Mart from a guy who ran a postal agency coonecting men in the UK with girls in Bulgaria and Romania.


I sent him my photo's and some details about me and he'd pass them onto the girls out there.


It was quite exciting getting all these letters and photo's in response from the girls 


So into the unknown i leapt and flew out to Bulgaria to meet one of the girls...after a few phone conversations with her.


Unfortunately,she didn't look anything like as hot as her photo's and she had two young kids she'd forgotten to tell me about.


Still,it was a nice holiday and i had loads of attention from some real stunners out there..none of whom could speak English 

My guess is that it was pretty out there thing to do back then CB so well done on pushing the boat out on that one. I doubt many would have gone to Bulgaria at that time especially for that as seen as a bit backward, exotic even. Guessing it was just after break up of USSR. Beyond what I have described already and know from younger guys I'm not overly sure what they would make of such an idea of dating in the FSU pandemic aside. Many complain about them not being able to date in this country but I'm guessing it's still the case that they are unfamiliar with dating abroad and/or all the bad stories have topped up and they think it's all a big sham.

I started looking for FSW about just over a decade ago now, but it was only briefly, then I think recession hit here because if the credit crunch. I managed to stay in my job ok but I knew that there's no telling in such times over jobs. At the same time I think Ukraine seemed to be getting wealthier and doing quite well compared to the credit crunched west with rising unemployment. I also decided to get onto an Architecture course and thought that I could possibly land a girl in the west along the way, no such luck though. I think that's part of it that guys will try stuff in this country first thinking it will land them a girl and only after all else fails look out of desperation abroad. Anyhow, 2014 came along and all the problems in Ukraine which plunged them back into economic woes and by that time around the same time western economies were picking up nicely. I was shortly after finishing off my Architecture course and a couple of years or so later decided to give it another look. I remembered this forum from before so looked it up and came here.

From what I recall first time around a decade or so back I was frustrated by the western dating scene, Match.com, Speed Dating that I had tried just prior with no joy - at the time I thought it would be the golden bullet, about 20 girls all single in one room, easy or so I thought. I'm not a short guy, ginger or bald/receding hair so I thought all I've got to do is dress casual/smart go around and talk to the girls and I should get some interest somewhere. Wrong, no ticks at all, I later learned that few guys do. I'm not sure what they are expecting according to Photofeeler I'm an average looking guy. Anyhow that was no joy so I think I thought 'this is hopeless' so I was sitting at my computer and out of frustration just tapped in something about foreign women or possibly Russian women not exactly sure now. Anyhow I think up popped these dating websites aimed at foreign men dating Russian women. I took a gander at them then the thought of looking up and seeing if there was a forum on it came to mind as forums had been handy for other stuff for me, basically to know if the dating site I was looking at and considering joining was any good. That's what brought me here way back. I should have really persevered back then but thought I would try see if a better career might help my chances.

I think that's the thing even today that the few guys that get frustrated enough and will think to hell with all the bad stories I've heard about dating foreign women from countries such as Russia, Thailand, Philippines, South America, etc I'll go and look for myself and see. I think until a guy finds dating at home such a difficulty and ordeal that is when he'll type into Google about dating foreign women.

Other than that there is now the 'Incel' culture, basically give up and start hating women, etc. That wasn't around a decade or so ago at least as we know it and is popularised today. I think a lot of guys turn that way now than look abroad. They think that they don't have the money or have a house to interest women abroad or don't have the looks or what it takes. I think some are so badly crippled by the dating environment in the west these days that they just don't see themselves as being wanted by any women. Even if they don't identify as Incels they can be somewhere in that direction. I'm thinking that probably what's happening these days.

[Boethius]

Why don't they use Facebook? Do they use something else instead?

Because their parents are on Facebook.  It's considered something for old people


They do use other forms of communication.

[Trenchcoat]

Because their parents are on Facebook.  It's considered something for old people


They do use other forms of communication.

Oh interesting to note. I'm guessing they use WhatsApp, possibly Instagram, etc. I personally just use Facebook for family but don't go on there much just too labour intensive keeping up with it all. Most of the time a lot of posts cone across as a load of tittle tattle so got other things to do than all of that.

Funny how Facebook was the in thing for the young when it first came out and now they shun it lol. I was never keen on the concept of it dominating life so much, kind of felt it got too big to be healthy for society in sone way. Kind of like they expected us all to adhere to it.

[Chelseaboy]

Hmmmm,


                Seems they're wrong.


My 23 year-old son and his ex-school friends and current University acquaintances are all on Facebook.


The young ladies in their twenties i know through work and their friends are all on Facebook too..they're always on it and anything that happens in town they tell me about through their being on Facebook.

[Boethius]

Well, my children (all three of them) and their circles are not.  Nor are the children of my relatives in the US.  Some have instagram, but my children don't.  They won't use any Facebook owned product.  That's part of the reason Facebook rebranded.  They do use Snapchat.

Youth now tend to use TikTok.

http://www.theverge.com/22743744/facebook-teen-usage-decline-frances-haugen-leaks

[ML]

They won't use any Facebook owned product.  That's part of the reason Facebook rebranded.

Facebook as a social media website is unchanged in name.

It's the parent of Facebook that is now named Meta.

Ford Motor Company can change its corporate name to something else, but Ford vehicles will still be produced.

[Boethius]

Yes, but I think that's so that new products are not associated with Facebook.  It's seen as "stodgy" by youth.

[Trenchcoat]

They probably had the same hang up over Facebook Boe had over Google not so long ago.

I think in general Facebook is still fairly universal as it fits with most people. Instagram is still really for the pretty girls & boys and gym bods, not saying it's exclusively used by them but it's still a large part of it. Tik Tok is the relatively new one, kind of knew it would catch on but never used it nor liked it, kind of feel that it appeals to attention wh*res too much, the kind of 'everyone look at me' type of person.

Anyhow don't think any are responsible for less people looking to do the FSU dating thing. Think it's more the Incel culture thing gaining dominance with men who would otherwise have considered it. Reckon Elliott Rodger's could have easily scored in the FSU being from a wealthy background with involvement in the film industry but probably thought why should he have to go to those lengths that a girl locally should accept him. So guess kind of a change in mindframe of the younger generation I guess.

[civi68]

I first started this in 1998 with the European Connections socials at age 30. The fantasy was still strong among both the men and women. I, too, fell for the fantasy and experienced it for a time. Women were chasing us back then. I first noticed a change at a 2001 St Pete social where the women were becoming more particular. Many came for something to do and have guys take them out for dinner. They were still interested in a foreign man but not so much with the average guy. Soon after that, socials stopped in St Pete and Moscow due to lack of interest from women.
   I returned to FSU dating in 2003 to 2007 using the agencies. But I became cautious and never did the visa thing again. (I brought a woman over back in 1999) Saw a lot of guys including myself going on dates but the woman were not as enthusiastic as before. Also, a lot of "Euro man preferred" women. Met a lot of guys struggling to find something permanent.
   Returned to FSU dating in 2010 using internet sites. Not as interested in finding something permanent unless it really went well. Did 3 trips to Moscow and 2 to Dnepropetrovsk. Stayed with Ray and Marina Anderson on 1st trip for those who knew them. Met some good women in Moscow who preferred the man move to Moscow or who lived in big city in another country.
    I think the fantasy is not as strong among men and women today as well as less younger men interested in marriage enough to go overseas. Not to mention watching the train wrecks on TLC.

 

[Boethius]

I doubt 90 Day Fiance has had any effect on decisions.  Incidentally, most of the couples featured are still married.


There has been a lot of Russian language press on the downsides of these marriages.  I think that may have played a role as well.

[Trenchcoat]

That's a good run through Civ of how things can change over time. I think Moscow and St. Pete's wealth have made it that women there probably see WM less as the answer to their issues. Not saying they are all wealthy of course in those cities. I know when Kyn went there a few years back he apparently met mostly career women in Moscow who weren't so interested as he was still a student (though on a PhD I think) but the outer ring cites circling outside of Moscow that problem is not so much the case apparently.

I know from my last trip to Kyiv before the virus that the women there looked fairly well off in fact the people in general. Not saying they all were thus was of course the city centre and no doubt the 'elite' of the city knocking around. As others have posted there wasn't the sight of a lot older men dating a lot younger women. There were quite a few young couples of guys & girls out in Marinsky Park cosying up on benches together dressed casual smart, again the elite of the youth I got the impression. My overall opinion is that hat while there may be women on the outskirts who would date a foreign guy in the city centre less so. In general that girls from the more provincial cities and towns are likely more to be interested in a WM who could offer them a better lifestyle. I know from my communications that girls from the provinces can see Kyivian girls as spoilt, no doubt many aspire to the well of lifestyle of those that are more wealthy there.

So personally myself while Kyiv is a handy fly in destination for a girl who is serious and would admire a good lifestyle the provinces particularly away from Odessa and towards the more old industrial cities are likely to be better hunting ground.

[ML]

I only made visits to the major cities and did not venture out into the smaller, more distant cities.  It is quite possible I would have found a generally higher caliber of women in those cities, but I was doing OK in the major cities, so didn't see the need to try.

I did have several women take bus and/or train in to visit me, but I never noticed any marked difference in those women compare to those living in the big cities.

And generally those visits did not go well because the women were very tired for the first day and a half or so.

Interestingly, not a single woman asked me to provide a hotel room for them, even as I offered to do so.  They all stayed in my apartment.  But again, I caution that all the women I met were aged 35 and above.  The situation might be different for 20 somethings.

[Jumper1]

FB in generally is an older demographic, so are men interested in mob.

While they not be there fir dsting reasons,they generally* stopped using forums of any kind on any subject.
The youth still.use fb,but tend to prefer other means.
They generally* seldom use forums on any subject.

So while those interested in  mob may not  generally use any  given specific method  to discuss it, one thing that most demographics generslly trended away from is forums.
That's certainly a fssctor in why we don't see much here.

I also agree very very few are traveling.
If they did travel , it would likely it  still be the outlier that went to a forum currently.

Seems a chicken or the egg thing

Or if a tree   doesn't fall in a forest, and  noones there to hear it, would anyone see it 🤣

[Trenchcoat]

I think too that forums have declined a fair bit in terms of being a fresh new thing. Forums are probably seen as a geeky thing by today's youth and not something to be associated with. Kind of the type of thing if you did feel the need too you wouldn't admit it to your peers and keep it quiet. That said I think a lot of people probably got into FSU and other foreign dating in the early days like Civ described as they thought it was going to be easy, like literally mail order lol or not far from that, so like turn up find one you like and you're done. For a few that might have happened but I think as things wore on guys begun to see more and more that it was not that simple. Most guys I think want a quick simple easy answer to their dating problems. A lot of guys don't have the capacity or the motivation to get into depth on something. We've seen it here countless times, a guy comes along states his dating situation here for us we see that it's full of red flags, let him know that we and then radio silence we never here from him again. Basically the guy has given up and thrown in the towel upon hearing the bad news that his quick easy win was too good to be true. Even though we tell him where he could go like Fdate we never hear from him again. Odds are he no longer wants to know, make an effort or try because he only wants to know about gaining quick easy wins - instant gratification. It's the way society has gone today particularly for the youth, most youths if they can't see a quick easy win in something for them they don't want to bother, they would rather sit there on their todd and lounge the day away. I am different to a lot of guys out there and likely a bit unusual I think in that I can see value in pursuing something that is not easy, learning, coming to know stuff that most guys don't know and potentially gaining from it. For me it's a great situation as it cuts down on the competition a whole heap and let's face it there is loads of that around in the west these days.

Literally though I have worked with Millennials and they literally expect to be given the answers all the time for nothing and be given stuff for nothing. They think they just need ask and they are automatically then entitled to be given.

[civi68]

Trench, you are correct that many guys in the early years thought it would be easier. Keep in mind that email/internet was just getting started back then so many felt that they had to do the visa fairly quickly, mostly at the social or on a 2nd trip. The internet just getting started also meant that the men and women didn't get much news or information in general about outside of their countries.
  I watch this on Youtube. Not sure if this is the trend for younger guys or not. But this site is more about guys coming over to approach women on the street or in bars for fun. This guy said in a few videos that the marriage pursuit and using agencies/socials is old hat primarily for older men.
http://www.youtube.com/c/TsarExperience

[rwd123]

I first noticed a change at a 2001 St Pete social where the women were becoming more particular. Many came for something to do and have guys take them out for dinner. They were still interested in a foreign man but not so much with the average guy. Soon after that, socials stopped in St Pete and Moscow due to lack of interest from women. 

It's not surprising that with improved socio-economic conditions that women took less interest in foreign men. Working professionals in Moscow have a high standard of living these days.

The Internet has also made the world a much smaller place. There is less mystique and mystery about foreigners which was and still can be an advantage when dating.

[BC]

The Internet has also made the world a much smaller place. There is less mystique and mystery about foreigners which was and still can be an advantage when dating.

Makes it easier for the locals to find each other as well.  "Social skills" has a new meaning nowadays with a huge number of relationships that start on Facebook, Odnoklassniki etc.