"Statistics" Topic from P-L Archives

[Admin]

Most of you are unaware that RWD has a 'sister' website called Planet-Love.com focusing on other geographies than FSU countries. If you visit now, you will see sections for Latin America, Asia and a legacy section for "Russian International Dating Forums" which is now directed to RWD.

But all of that is simply background. The reason for this particular post is to point out that Planet-Love.com was active for some years prior to RWD. When this site switched forum software, years of posts (2001 - 2006,) were archived from the Planet-Love.com website and remain available at this link to the PL Archives . There, in the Russian Forum Archives, I found this thread --> Statistics by a female member 'Tootsie,' an American woman who visited the site with some regularity. In the post she addresses success statistics on foreign marriage she found on Russian television. I found the topic interesting and suspect some of you may as well. The archives contain a ton of useful information. While some is dated, much is timeless and remains relevant today.

[Boethius]

I believe that statistic. Most of the FSUW I have met here, who married Canadian men, are now divorced.

[Trenchcoat]

I'll come back to briefly comment on this as it seems something that is a particularly concerning impact, the divorce situation. Interesting btw about the sister site, I never knew there was one but handy to have one I think on other parts of the world. The situation of dating in South America I have always wondered about just out of curiosity and only heard a little about.

Anyhow, as to why such high divorce rates, well I've never been married to a FSW so no direct experience there. From what I have seen though from communicating with FSW online and in person is that when things start to go south they go south in a big way and quickly. I've tended to find that FSW can 'hit red' and end things quickly if a big disagreement comes up. If married to them then I assume the same happens and that ends in divorce. Add on top of that cultural differences particularly with the gulf between western & eastern culture and trust issues as well then it's a big risky situation all in all brewing away. Trust issues can get rolling in each others mind over trifles and snowball onwards and they can be pretty devastating once momentum get behind them.

The main thing though I believe is the way FSW can react to a disagreement. I find they may not have much disagreement avoidant capacity, some of the guys on here who have been successful I've noticed seem good on that front, ML, etc.

Anyway, I'm not sure as to the solution on this. I don't seek conflict a lot but like anyone areas of disagreement are bound to crop up. If any disagreement peeves a FSW of so much that she shuts down completely and ends it all and doesn't have much capacity to handle disagreements I don't know what the answer is. I myself wouldn't judge myself as handling disagreements always well so I wouldn't absolve myself completely from any blame it's just something I've noticed.

I'm still interested in getting with a FSW but for sure such divorce statistics would be concerning for many a person. I don't believe that a lot of those within the statistics are many that are FSW with dubious intent, a few will but I think most likely enter into marriage like the guy with wanting it to work out. Often the focus on here as in general with FSU dating is on getting with a FSW but these statistics seem to show that making a relationship work long term may be an even bigger issue. I don't know the answer here but for me as well as many others looking to find a woman in the FSU these divorce stats will come as a great concern.

I'm doing ok through not being on the forum as much I often read posts here. I'm focusing more on what I'm doing which I feel is helpful to me now. That I will generally continue but this post which is more general than on specific person/people I feel is something that needs better understanding as to what the problem is here and any possible solution?

[BC]

I believe that statistic. Most of the FSUW I have met here, who married Canadian men, are now divorced.

Ditto here in IT.  Of a dozen or so couples, very few are still married.

[Bee Farmer]

Of the 2 in 10 that didn't end in divorce, how many would have ended in divorce, except for the old geezer dying before the divorce was finalized?

80% doesn't sound unrealistic.  I think the vast majority of international couples are folks who are previously divorced.  Folks who are on their 2nd marriage have a 66% chance of divorce.

Add in factors of age differences, cultural differences, language barriers, etc. 80% does not seem unrealistic.

If we had access to the data, I wonder what the divorce rate would be if the couple had an age difference of less than 5 or 10 years, or if they had never been married before.  And whether nor not they had prior children, or children after the marriage. And money (or lack thereof) always affects marriages too.
I also wonder if the location of the foreign husband would factor in.  A FSUW wife who marries a foreign husband from a nearby country could visit her parents every month or two much easier than if she married a man from the US or Australia.

[ML]

I have one, perhaps irrelevant, comment.

Tootsie is/was not an American woman.

She is/was a Russian living in Moscow.

[Admin]

I have one, perhaps irrelevant, comment.

Tootsie is/was not an American woman.

She is/was a Russian living in Moscow.

I think you are correct - thank you. For some reason (distance in time), I confused Tootsie with Clare. In any case, the discussion ensued and cast light on propaganda and emerging tensions between Ukraine and Russia even then. The source cited by Tootsie, NTV, had been a reasonably reliable source of information up till the time ownership abruptly changed to Gazprom. As mentioned earlier, there is a lot of interesting information in the archives, particularly contemporaneous writings of those with a great deal of time in-country.

[ML]

Tootsie was first married to a German guy.
Then she later married an American guy named Del (I think that is right name, but I might be mistaken).
She was fluent in several languages and worked as interpreter.  At least that was one job she had.
She was very active on discussion sites for several years, but then disappeared.

[krimster2]

life is SO UNFAIR!!!
here there are poor guys on this board, who'd GREATLY like to have an FSU girl friend, but can't manage to make this happen
while at the dame time, there is also one guy (me!) who is married to a 6 foot 1 hard bodied bi-sexual Ukrainian MILF who has a younger blond Ukrainian girlfriend as a sub
I have gotten used to having two pairs of breasts resting against me in bed
they're very soft and comfortable
just like my freshly ironed and starched clothes
and coffee and breakfast served on the back porch, while I post on RWD on my wireless laptop
it's just SO UNFAIR!!!
yup, that's a shame alright.....

[ML]

just like my freshly ironed and starched clothes

Starched clothes ?????

Haven't heard of anyone using starch for last 50 years or so.

[Trenchcoat]

life is SO UNFAIR!!!
here there are poor guys on this board, who'd GREATLY like to have an FSU girl friend, but can't manage to make this happen
while at the dame time, there is also one guy (me!) who is married to a 6 foot 1 hard bodied bi-sexual Ukrainian MILF who has a younger blond Ukrainian girlfriend as a sub
I have gotten used to having two pairs of breasts resting against me in bed
they're very soft and comfortable
just like my freshly ironed and starched clothes
and coffee and breakfast served on the back porch, while I post on RWD on my wireless laptop
it's just SO UNFAIR!!!
yup, that's a shame alright.....

How about disagreements Krim, how have you managed to avoid the relationship going south quickly and ending up in the divorce courts due to your FSW refusing to let go of a disagreement? Assuming she is like that of course.

[krimster2]

simple...
if you are REALLY GOOD at knowing how to pleasure a woman
and employ these talents on a regular basis
then the savage beast becomes a docile pussycat that loves to be petted
and so you oblige...

PS
lightly starched for the humid, gulf of Mexico winds that blow in from the south
the life of a gentleman farmer tended to by his minions
in plantation attire
Dutch waffles with butter and maple syrup and Jamaican coffee

[Trenchcoat]

There's probably that. If a guy can make his woman happy in some way on a consistent basis. I know 2tallbill is good with humour so I guess it could be various stuff. I know when I see a hot looking girl I tend to be probably more avoidant of disagreements with her. Possibly a lot fail as one or both aren't really into the other person enough and it comes out along the way (consciously or subconsciously) through disagreement then a rapid downhill situation and finished.

[Trenchcoat]

Following on from my thought on 'disagreement' being the possible main cause and how people handle disagreement got me thinking of a time from my younger days working in a Supermarket. I was in my early twenties and studying for my undergrad degree and working part time in a Supermarket to help finance my studies. Well I was working in a department within he Supermarket alongside a number of women, a few of them around my age. Anyhow two of them were at one point or another available for dating.

The first girl was quite pretty looking, in good enough shape, no obvious fat and had a very good sociable personality, we seemed to hit it of well together however she probably did with many a person/guy. She was a bit of a nightclub kind of girl but probably didn't like to go too often due to either cost or possibly tiring if the scene, me less of a nightclub sort. Only possible slight time where disagreement at work came to being a possibility was when she told me that something should be done another way, she followed it up with the reason why and that seemed sound enough so avoided it grating too much in my mind. I thought I might have a chance with her but as sods law had it she got with some other guy there and ending up having kids/marriage with him just as I seemed to be making inroads into getting to know her well enough.

The second girl was not quite as pretty, still decent enough facially but was a little overweight. By today's standards even that wasn't that bad as I had no idea what was to come from women getting ridiculously obese. However I saw her bent over once and thought she was one of the old larger ladies that worked in store, that did not put her in a good light to me. However, far worse I found was her personality, sure most of the time it was ok everyday nice enough, but on not one but two occasions she tried to boss/order me around. I was having none of it, I'm not that kind of guy who will leave his dignity at the door and be ordered around like a dog, I find that just too demeaning. Anyway the second time she was worse than the first and it was pretty much an argument and we were at odds with each other till the shift ended. Her bf had broken up with her and that was probably why I reasoned. She would have likely been easy to pick up to date not as popular as the first girl and I think she was interested in me. I could have probably got on well enough with her until something we would disagree on and I think her bossy unbending manner would have wrecked it. Perhaps there was a doormat out there that would suit her but me by nature was not me not I think not many a guy.


So there we have it, I feel a suitable example of how a relationship might work or not. As it was I didn't end up in a relationship with either but the second girl I could off. The first girl had the other guy not been around who knows. My guess is that the first girl would have been far easier to be with for me or anyone, the second girl would have been difficult to be with for me or most others. The first girl had dated many guys the second girl had dated only one guy.

So my thoughts are that a lot of the girls that are left in FSU dating, not all but many are likely the more difficult girls to get on with, that's why they've been left to the side. Hence why the high divorce rate, possibly some guys might possibly be not all the good on dealing with more difficult personalities also or the odd few difficult guys. I recall a while back on here we had a poster, Nano, who didn't seem to realise that she was coming over prickly as Krim found but thought it was the guys all mysteriously turning funny after a while. Some people may get on better with some than others if course but my thoughts are that while it's better than the leftovers in the West it's likely not all without issue many of the women leftover in the East.

Whether a better result can be obtained somehow I don't know. Feel free to disagree anyone but that's just my thoughts on it all.

[krimster2]

flirting with wimmin
is an acquired skill like any other
the more you practice it
the better proficiency you achieve

IMHO, get rid of your attractivenes judgement filter
far more important to find someone who you can share feelings of lo ve
and if you find love, it doesn't matter

be a ray of light Trench
and pay attention to who reflects the light back to you
there's your huckleberry

you can't always get what you want Trench
but if you try some time
you just might find
that you get what you need

If I were one of you young, single and obviously VERY horny incels, I’d scrape together some money, living expenses for a year, plus at LEAST $20,000 seed money to buy gem stones in Kazakhstan

I got GIA certification a long time ago to work in my family’s jewelry business
you can do it on-line now here:

http://www.gia.edu

a good lupe and UV light and scales are all you need, plus detailed knowledge of prices which you can learn on-line at ebay

go to Kazakhstan and buy
and sell on ebay

while “in-country” get yourself a sleeping dictionary like the one pictured
use her to setup your business meetings and be translator
so you’ll most likely need an English speaker
speaking Russian well, would be a HUGE advantage for you, but none of you incels will have alpha level skills like that, now do ya?

I bought stones there and made 5X when turning them into jewelry and selling online
plus had jewelry to give all my girlfriends that woulda otherwise cost a FORTUNE!!!
and because of that, I get more pooty-tang then all you put together...
like can be reduced to a few simple basics
wimmin freakin LOVE opening little jewelry boxes with shiny diamonds inside
it makes them EXTREMELY HORNY
ask me, how I know?
hmmmm....????

[Trenchcoat]

flirting with wimmin
is an acquired skill like any other
the more you practice it
the better proficiency you achieve

IMHO, get rid of your attractiveness judgement filter
far more important to find someone who you can share feelings of love
and if you find love, it doesn't matter

be a ray of light Trench
and pay attention to who reflects the light back to you
there's your huckleberry

you can't always get what you want Trench
but if you try some time
you just might find
that you get what you need

If I were one of you young, single and obviously VERY horny incels, I’d scrape together some money, living expenses for a year, plus at LEAST $20,000 seed money to buy gem stones in Kazakhstan

I got GIA certification a long time ago to work in my family’s jewelry business
you can do it on-line now here:

http://www.gia.edu

a good lupe and UV light and scales are all you need, plus detailed knowledge of prices which you can learn on-line at ebay

go to Kazakhstan and buy
and sell on ebay

while “in-country” get yourself a sleeping dictionary like the one pictured
use her to setup your business meetings and be translator
so you’ll most likely need an English speaker
speaking Russian well, would be a HUGE advantage for you, but none of you incels will have alpha level skills like that, now do ya?

I bought stones there and made 5X when turning them into jewelry and selling online
plus had jewelry to give all my girlfriends that woulda otherwise cost a FORTUNE!!!
and because of that, I get more pooty-tang then all you put together...
like can be reduced to a few simple basics
wimmin freakin LOVE opening little jewelry boxes with shiny diamonds inside
it makes them EXTREMELY HORNY
ask me, how I know?
hmmmm....????

That's true I think. I often forget that finding out whether I would get on with a girl is something to do first & foremost. However, in the example I think aside from looks the first girl was way better socially, even if her looks weren't as nice I think she was easier to get on with. Whether that was just her or because people treated her better from her looks who knows. I think in her case she just had better social genes. Looks wise I found her attractive but it wasn't like she was way more attractive like model like I would say she was about a 6-7 on the scale the second girl about a 5, pretty enough for me and I would have dated if the other issues particularly the bossy (pretty much bullying, you do as I say) attitude had not come up.

Well at the moment I don't have $20k to spare, a fine idea it sounds though.

So back to the question, what do you think is the reason most western/FSU marriages fail Krim? I'm guessing you've seen a fair amount of this from those you know?

[krimster2]

Russian wimmin are generally stubborn, assertive and strong-willed
not all men can handle living with such a creature
I, OTOH, have mad skillz for handling wimmin
these skills began as a child, when I was able to tame the squirrels and rabbits livin in the backyard
I studied the animals a long time first, and saw they spent most of their time food gathering
so step 1, is to give them food...

you can take this approach with wimmin in Ukraine
and do the same
figure out what bait they like and give it to them
and THEN AFTER you give them enuff bait, they'll let you PET THEM!!!
IT'S EASY!!!

the real question to ask is how do you get these strong willed Russian wimmin to SUBMIT TO YOU SEXUALLY?  hmmmmm???? so they WANT to give it to you?
I choose the "banya method" so you can check out each other's junk in the banya!!!
act all innocent and surprised you gotta take off ALL your clothes when ya get there!!
and, you wanna be perfectly shaved "down there"

Russian guys DO NOT give oral sex to Wimmin in Ukraine
they ONLY receive it
this is why if you "are a giver"
you can pretty much do WTF you want with a Russian woman
cuz you're probably the only guy who can give her an orgasm!!!
what if you were a young guy who met an older well-to-do foreign woman
who took you out to amazing restaurants, etc, and then at the end of the evening wanted to give you head in the hotel, would you say NO?
of course not!
and neither will the college student you take out!
ask me how I know these things...

[ML]

. . . and then at the end of the evening wanted to give you head in the hotel, would you say NO?
of course not!
and neither will the college student you take out!

Not true.
There are women in every country who are opposed to giving and receiving head.

It goes back to Victorian age (regardless of country) when women were not supposed to do various sexual things, even if it meant pleasure to themselves.

Only 'unus solus' example, but here in my college town a man had raped (using various parts of his body) several college gals over 4-5 years.

When finally arrested and on trial, a few of the gals testified.

One gal told that he had penetrated her with his penis, but then when he went for performing oral sex on her; she said to him:
"Please don't do that, as I am very religious"
Go figure.

I even encountered a few women who did not want to have more than one orgasm because . . . 'it just wasn't right' . . . in the Victorian sense.

[Trenchcoat]

Russian wimmin are generally stubborn, assertive and strong-willed

Yeah had a couple like that, worst I think in messaging. Both were a quick decent downhill. My guess is that with a lot of FSW it may not roar it's head until living with/married to them. At that point the relationship heads swiftly in the direction of a

[krimster2]

"I even encountered a few women who did not want to have more than one orgasm because . . . 'it just wasn't right' . . . in the Victorian sense."

what else did your cousins in the Arkansaw backwoods tell you?

[Trenchcoat]

With western women most of the ones that moan do my head in, I also don't like controlling types and/or bossy commanding types. Some women that are moaney in a passive aggressive (like under their breath or funny reaction statements) kind of make me laugh, those ones I don't mind.

I'm not sure whether I could find a FSW who would line up enough personality wise on this stuff with me. I'll probably check out a few more and see if I can find one that may.